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Author Topic: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks  (Read 28913 times)

Dave Bigelow

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #120 on: June 18, 2008, 12:13:36 am »


I'd kill to have Oregon Trail on a console!  Twisted Evil


I mean come on, you cam play Frogger on a FatFrog and all. Why let the lampies have all the fun?
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Joe Breher

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #121 on: June 18, 2008, 02:45:36 am »

Dave Bigelow wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 22:13


I mean come on, you cam play Frogger on a FatFrog and all. Why let the lampies have all the fun?


20 years ago, I had Missile Command on the HP 16500A Logic Analyzer with a touch screen interface - does that count?

Oh, wait - that was my *day* gig ...

(edit: fixed model number - necessitated due to Alzheimer's, apparently)
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Joe Breher
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #122 on: June 18, 2008, 09:57:30 am »

It is human nature to be fearful of change, and strangers, and the unknown.

Resisting technology has been around as long as technology. Perhaps google "Luddites".

Every generation thinks they're different or special, change is constant.

JR
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Alex Schultz

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #123 on: June 18, 2008, 11:59:34 am »

Darwinism - sez it all........................ Smile

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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #124 on: June 18, 2008, 12:30:51 pm »

bruce reiter wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 23:39

Mark Hadman wrote on Mon, 09 June 2008 19:26



Don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid of technology,
But it was an absolutely ridiculous gig the other day - small festy, two minutes changeover, the last thing I needed was to see an O2R/96 at FOH, accompanied by an HE who couldn't (or wouldn't) set up a tap tempo delay on a soft key for me and, it turned out a few minutes in, hadn't actually got any FX returns routed anywhere anyway, and the vocals were distorted to hell because there weren't enough pres on the desk so they were using an overcooked B*******r A/D unit hidden away in a rack along with a couple of inexplicable B******r digiEQs ...

...


hi mark,

it is your responsibility to know how to operate the equipment. read the manual and figure out for yourself how to use the soft key function or whatever.
ignorance is no excuse.

best,

bruce


I am "Pro" digital.
Ignorance may be his problem, but who controls the time you have to check that FOH is properly patched?

In the end you can have exactly the same problems and it has nothing to do with analog or digital.

He has no choice but to jump in and learn the different desks he will see on his tour or ask the system tech to mix the show because he is not capable.
Harsh situation, but that is it in a nutshell.

For nine months of the year I had enough work to stay home and work theater and anything else that MSU needed along with some convention work.
In the summer I would go out with an 18' straight truck and do small to medium fairs and festivals out doors.
One of the reasons I did it was because the sound company I worked for was always up grading gear, while the theaters, arenas and convention center ballrooms almost never did.
By going on those gigs I got to learn the new gear.

First time I saw a PM3500 and a BSS Varicurve I learned how to use it from the manual in the time between setup and when the band got there for sound check.
This happened at the beginning of every summer.

Where it helped was when I went back to doing theater in the fall I knew how to run the new gear the Broadway shows would come in with. Otherwise if I looked at the money I should have been doing something else with my IA card. Actually I did about half the summer with the sound company and the rest doing other IA gigs, that might not even use my audio experience, but paid twice as much.
Hanging screens and stapling pleated cloth on the walls of a 4plex theater may not be as much fun as mixing the old Rock&Roll I grew up with, but it sure pays better.

To make a long story short, learning how to run new gear is part of your job and will ALWAYS make you money in the end.

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Too Tall
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Ian Hunt

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #125 on: June 18, 2008, 12:36:02 pm »

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 08:57

It is human nature to be fearful of change, and strangers, and the unknown.

Resisting technology has been around as long as technology. Perhaps google "Luddites".

Every generation thinks they're different or special, change is constant.

JR


Yup, I'm still very suspicious of that trombone thing!
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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #126 on: June 18, 2008, 12:44:51 pm »

Tony "T" Tissot wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 14:55

Jarrett Krauss wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 11:02


what i'm trying to say here is that you are probably older and grew up and always used analog, so good for you, keep it up.

but to my generation, digital is here to stay. and i LOVE IT.



The ageism angle is nonsense.

Remember that "we" (older folks) are the generation that invented, or first applied all of this technology.

There has never been any fear of, or lack of understanding about anything digital.

I built an Altair - before you were born. I still have a working Apple II from the 70s. And Uncle Sam was nice enough to have me working on (ferrite-core memory) computers, even before that.

The problem is accepting devices with work flows that are less than well thought out. (And I am not saying that digital consoles have not caught up - or surpassed analog boards). Us old guys tend to want devices with logical UIs and controls that are designed by people who actually know what the end result should be. Innovation, new work flows? No problem. But not some obviously slapped together digital-for-the-sake-of-digital.

But - It's finally getting great for audio.




I disagree.

You may have been ahead of the curve, but the majority of people our age WERE NOT!

I saw it with my friend AL Limburg’s son.
Al has been using the Yamaha Pro 1 (Did I get the model right Al ?) since it came out more then a decade ago.

As a rule most people back then were much more comfortable with a 1/3 octave graphic then an 8 channel parametric EQ. They would use it, but it was uncomfortable to say the least.
In fact many people had trouble with the old White EQs that used rotary knobs.

Al’s oldest son Grant learned how to mix on that digital board and can’t imagine having any trouble using parametric EQs anywhere.
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Too Tall
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Don't mix rock'n'roll with digital desks
« Reply #127 on: June 18, 2008, 03:10:59 pm »

Kyle O'Connor wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 16:38

Trying to think of 2 things I would absolutely have to do at the same time while mixing a show??? Something that had to be done immediately, not 2 to 3 seconds a part. The only thing i can think of is say like bringing up a DDL at the same time as pullling the gain on a clippin vocal or something similar?? Which can be done at the same time on any dig desk i've been on.

Anybody think of any other immediate withing one second needs?

Just curious

Working an aux send for a triggered effect on a vocal channel while actively panning a guitar channel for a Hendrix-style around the room effect. Readjusting eq and level on a keyboard with uneven patches while riding a monitor send on a vocalist who has just decided to take his mic off the stand triggering feedback despite having said he never does that. Responding to a "more me" gesture by the rhythm player while riding the guitar solo.

Andy Peters

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #128 on: June 18, 2008, 04:10:01 pm »

Joe Breher wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 23:45

Dave Bigelow wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 22:13


I mean come on, you cam play Frogger on a FatFrog and all. Why let the lampies have all the fun?


20 years ago, I had Missile Command on the HP 16500A Logic Analyzer with a touch screen interface - does that count?


Hey, I have a 16500.

Do you want it?

Can I get that Missile Command load?

-a
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Joe Breher

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Re: A curmudgeonly rant back at ya!!
« Reply #129 on: June 18, 2008, 04:27:01 pm »

Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 18 June 2008 14:10

Joe Breher wrote on Tue, 17 June 2008 23:45


20 years ago, I had Missile Command on the HP 16500A Logic Analyzer with a touch screen interface - does that count?


Hey, I have a 16500.

Do you want it?


Umm, not really. IIRC, the state analysis cards stopped their upgrade lifecycle at somewhere south of 100 MHz or so. As such, it wouldn't be fast enough for the types of work I might want to perform.

Quote:


Can I get that Missile Command load?



If I still had a copy, I'd clone a floppy for ya. FWIW, this was a boot floppy that booted the machine straight into MC. I don't know whether or not it ran atop the 16500 OS, or was some other OS unto itself. (Trivia question - anyone know what the 16500 OS was based upon?)

It was a gift from the local HP sales team. Then again, HP's T&M Development team was located near us (CO), so we may have had a closer relationship than would have customers in other geographic areas.

However, I haven't had it for more than a decade (if not two?). I'm sure someone, somewhere has a copy. Perhaps a google search?
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Joe Breher
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