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Title: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Corey Scogin on May 20, 2018, 01:01:45 am
I saw Willie Nelson on tour recently and noticed his FOH console was analog.
How rare is it to see these beasts out on large tours these days?
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 20, 2018, 03:51:54 am
Fairly rare.  Maybe 1 show in 6, with 3 acts per show - about 5%?
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on May 20, 2018, 10:52:58 am
I honestly don't remember the last time I saw a Broadway tour with an analog console. Maybe Dolly Parton's 9 to 5, five or six years ago? Cadac J-Type, of course.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim Weaver on May 20, 2018, 11:25:44 am
Willie has been using that rig since Christ was a cowboy. And I donít see them changing anytime soon.

Metallica (Big Mick) and the RHCP (Dave Ratt) are the othe notable holdouts.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: John Fruits on May 20, 2018, 11:39:57 am
I have to wonder if this is sort of another "NO brown M & M's" litmus test, if the local crew can wrangle a huge analogue console, they can probably handle the rest of the issues. ( Yes, I also sometimes type colour just to amuse myself.)
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 20, 2018, 11:59:46 am
Willie has been using that rig since Christ was a cowboy. And I donít see them changing anytime soon.

Metallica (Big Mick) and the RHCP (Dave Ratt) are the othe notable holdouts.

I think you can add Foo Fighters to the list.  A few years back Elton John/Billy Joel - one of them had a Yammy PM5000 but I don't know which.  There is another country act touring with analogue, too.

I don't miss the weight, size, trucking, etc of analogue and I'm not sure I don't miss the "sound" in live audio as presented in hockey arenas and other similar venues.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Nikhil Mulay on May 20, 2018, 02:08:09 pm
Willie has been using that rig since Christ was a cowboy. And I donít see them changing anytime soon.

Metallica (Big Mick) and the RHCP (Dave Ratt) are the othe notable holdouts.
Big Mick has been using the Midas xl8 for Metallica for a while now..

AC/DC were still analog with the Midas Pro 40 on the last tour.

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Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on May 20, 2018, 02:28:48 pm
Big Mick has been using the Midas xl8 for Metallica for a while now..

AC/DC were still analog with the Midas Pro 40 on the last tour.

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Last time Lee Brice was through these parts he was going through a Paragon.

This was 2015, not sure if they are still able to keep it functioning t hough.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Art Welter on May 20, 2018, 02:47:33 pm
Willie has been using that rig since Christ was a cowboy. And I donít see them changing anytime soon.

Metallica (Big Mick) and the RHCP (Dave Ratt) are the othe notable holdouts.
Well, were..
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Christian Ekren on May 20, 2018, 04:47:12 pm
Saw Green Day last year touring with an analog Midas, not sure what model.

Eric Church was running another analog Midas last year, too.

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Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 20, 2018, 05:21:48 pm
Saw Green Day last year touring with an analog Midas, not sure what model.

Eric Church was running another analog Midas last year, too.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

Thanks for the memory jog... Eric Church is who I was thinking of.

With further cranial cobweb removal, IIRC Dierks Bentley was also analog FOH the last time we worked with him.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: John Fruits on May 20, 2018, 05:59:51 pm
Last time Lee Brice was through these parts he was going through a Paragon.

This was 2015, not sure if they are still able to keep it functioning t hough.

I wonder about the story on the engineer's throne, is there a reason for only 3 wheels? Did they carry it with them or was it provided locally?
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on May 20, 2018, 06:33:49 pm
I wonder about the story on the engineer's throne, is there a reason for only 3 wheels? Did they carry it with them or was it provided locally?

It was not provided locally.  It came off the truck.   I don't remember a story about the throne specifically though.  I do recall being told, that the desk "liked it here" because it passed the initial, no channel has major noise test, after being powered on.  Apparently, it was a little finicky and didn't "like it everywhere"
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 20, 2018, 07:26:10 pm
It was not provided locally.  It came off the truck.   I don't remember a story about the throne specifically though.  I do recall being told, that the desk "liked it here" because it passed the initial, no channel has major noise test, after being powered on.  Apparently, it was a little finicky and didn't "like it everywhere"

The Paragon was notoriously fickle about almost everything.  Most of the time the bottom cover was removed as soon as it was in place so various connectors could be re-seated.

For its day it set quite a standard, though.  Analog with the Uptown automation package; comp and gate on every input, 7 band Eqs (IIRC), dual monitor buses... it was quite the trick.

Rex Ray can probably tell us the history behind half the Paragon serial numbers...
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim Halligan on May 20, 2018, 07:33:18 pm
The last time Muse came through here...which was 2014 or 15...they had a Midas analogue FOH console.

That may have changed (obviously...) on subsequent tours.

The support was on a Profile.

Cheers,
Tim
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Todd Friemuth on May 20, 2018, 08:18:05 pm
To the best of my knowledge, Dierks is on an S6L now. Lee Brice and Martina have been on Paragon P40's , however I think Lee Brice may have a Paragon II now as it is a little less finicky typically. Willie, Muse, and Boston are still running analog Midas.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Jason Glass on May 20, 2018, 08:21:41 pm
I honestly don't remember the last time I saw a Broadway tour with an analog console. Maybe Dolly Parton's 9 to 5, five or six years ago? Cadac J-Type, of course.
I was with Dolly as MON Engineer until the end of 2013, and it was Midas Pro9's at MON & FOH.

Edit:  DOH! You meant the play. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was CADAC.

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Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Jason Glass on May 20, 2018, 08:26:15 pm
Saw Green Day last year touring with an analog Midas, not sure what model.

Eric Church was running another analog Midas last year, too.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
Green Day had a brand-spanking-new API provided by VER, then another provided by 8th Day after Jason Vrobel moved to 8th Day.

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Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Frank Czar on May 20, 2018, 08:45:42 pm
The Rolling Stones FOH Engineer Dave Natale is still using a Yamaha PM-4000
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on May 20, 2018, 08:46:51 pm
The Rolling Stones FOH Engineer Dave Natale is still using a Yamaha PM-4000
Isn't that his own, personally owned console though?
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: John Sulek on May 20, 2018, 09:17:38 pm
The Paragon was notoriously fickle about almost everything.  Most of the time the bottom cover was removed as soon as it was in place so various connectors could be re-seated.

For its day it set quite a standard, though.  Analog with the Uptown automation package; comp and gate on every input, 7 band Eqs (IIRC), dual monitor buses... it was quite the trick.

Rex Ray can probably tell us the history behind half the Paragon serial numbers...

The times I got to mix on one it was awesome, so many features way ahead of the rest of the pack. Reminded me a bit of the Harrisons in that way. We had a few of the channel strip rackmount units and they were great also...and not as finicky as the console by a long shot. :)
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Jason Glass on May 21, 2018, 12:55:28 am
The times I got to mix on one it was awesome, so many features way ahead of the rest of the pack. Reminded me a bit of the Harrisons in that way. We had a few of the channel strip rackmount units and they were great also...and not as finicky as the console by a long shot. :)
I carried an ATI P2 as MON console on Lonestar 2004 to '05. We had to do some kind of field repair on it every day. Not exaggerating at all. Every day. But, oh, my did it sound great when it worked! When it worked. It almost cost me my job on several occasions.

'Twasn't a welcomed distraction when the lead singer was "high maintenance", to put it kindly and mildly.

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Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 21, 2018, 08:35:13 am
The Paragon was notoriously fickle about almost everything. 
There was a local large sound company that I did reconing for.

EVERY time I went into their shop, one of the Paragons was taken apart.

It was good, when it worked.

What really "irks me", is the number of pro gear that is given a "free pass".

Things like "Yeah, they do that from time to time",  "But when it works it is great" and so forth.

But when a piece of Peavey gear that works all the time shows up, they will have NOTHING to do with it.  Many would rather have a piece of non working "pro gear" in a rack, than a totally working Peavey piece of kit.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 21, 2018, 11:15:23 am
There was a local large sound company that I did reconing for.

EVERY time I went into their shop, one of the Paragons was taken apart.

It was good, when it worked.

What really "irks me", is the number of pro gear that is given a "free pass".

Things like "Yeah, they do that from time to time",  "But when it works it is great" and so forth.

But when a piece of Peavey gear that works all the time shows up, they will have NOTHING to do with it.  Many would rather have a piece of non working "pro gear" in a rack, than a totally working Peavey piece of kit.

Cue up the story about the BE who wanted a not-used Peavey item removed from the rack because it degraded the sound (even when not hooked up!).
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 21, 2018, 11:33:19 am
Cue up the story about the BE who wanted a not-used Peavey item removed from the rack because it degraded the sound (even when not hooked up!).
For 15 years I walked around trade shows wearing a Peavey badge and there was a noticeable cooling after people in other booths read my badge.

Sometimes I would carry a pair of drumsticks around during my show walkabouts as a disguise and it was remarkable what people would tell me thinking I was only a drummer.  :o

JR 
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: John Fruits on May 21, 2018, 11:56:25 am
Interesting how it seems that Peavey is the only name that still comes up in the sometimes fictitious world of riders, Used to be, they would also list Carvin, Behringer and proprietary devices. 
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on May 21, 2018, 12:32:31 pm
...But when a piece of Peavey gear that works all the time shows up, they will have NOTHING to do with it.  Many would rather have a piece of non working "pro gear" in a rack, than a totally working Peavey piece of kit.

There was a time when I though Peavey was junk. But that was when I was in the audience, before I got interested in actually running sound. And, what I discovered was, the reason I thought it was junk was because the people running it (mostly high school students and staff) had no idea how to run sound so it always sounded like crap (*bad gain structure*). Or, it was a seriously abused piece of equipment (that still worked!) so it looked like crap. Or the people playing through it were total amateurs so they sounded like crap, regardless of the sound system.

But it's not the sound guy's name plastered across the front of the speaker stack, it's "PEAVEY." So Peavey gets labeled as "crap."

How many other people are there who have a disdain for Peavey but have never actually used it themselves?
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Dave Pluke on May 21, 2018, 02:37:53 pm
How many other people are there who have a disdain for Peavey but have never actually used it themselves?

Fair question.

Back when I was touring the frozen tundra, we had a Mark IV 24 channel mixer and a combination of CS800's & CS400's.  That stuff never let us down - even after -40F truck rides.

IMHO the gaudy logo and aluminum trim strips should have been jettisoned much sooner.  Some of that has a lingering effect.

Saw some very nice speakers for the House of Worship market in the Peavey booth at Nashville NAMM.  I was surprised they weren't further along in the Digital Mixer development, but maybe that's what the Crest Audio acquisition was all about?

Dave
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 21, 2018, 03:45:48 pm
Fair question.

Back when I was touring the frozen tundra, we had a Mark IV 24 channel mixer and a combination of CS800's & CS400's.  That stuff never let us down - even after -40F truck rides.

IMHO the gaudy logo and aluminum trim strips should have been jettisoned much sooner.  Some of that has a lingering effect.

Saw some very nice speakers for the House of Worship market in the Peavey booth at Nashville NAMM.  I was surprised they weren't further along in the Digital Mixer development, but maybe that's what the Crest Audio acquisition was all about?

Dave

Yeah, branding was/is controlled personally by Hartley Peavey.  He liked the original lightning bolt logo and that ended any discussions, I'm told.

JR was a big part of the mixer dept and among other things gave us most of the AMR mixers and the Mark VIII.  The Mark VIII was really a nice sounding desk with a very good EQ section and could have given Soundcraft a run for the money.  The downside to it?  It really, really didn't like riding in a truck (much like the $$$$ ATI Paragon consoles).  We sold our MK VIII to a recordist in SW MO who used it to record tracks and do the headphone mixes.  Not sure it they still have it or if it found another home.

As for digital mixers, JR probably has the answers up to the time he parted ways.

Lots of Peavey bashing from folks who've only heard it was "bad"?  Sure.

Jonathan Johnson has a good list to which I'll add this:  Peavey made it possible for inexperienced folks to play deeper than they had the chops for - the gear might have been up to the gig but the owners were not.  If a new-ish provider had a majority Peavey system it usually meant the needed experience and knowledge to pull off the show or event simply wasn't there.  So the "no Peavey" was, at some point, more about the folks who owned it than it was about the gear itself.

I too owned a MK IV-24 and when I bought it new, my other option was a Soundcraft 200B.  I really wanted the Soundcraft but the useful feature set of the MK IV eclipsed the 200B.  Not sure how many gigs that mixer did but it was one of my best investments, I think.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Brian Bolly on May 21, 2018, 04:07:51 pm
Last time Lee Brice was through these parts he was going through a Paragon

I think that may be Wayne Pauley's personal console he has out with Lee. 

Dierks used to be on a PM5000 at FOH when that was a VER account.  I know Pugs has switched back to digital on an S6L now, and I think they're back with Clair.

Kevin still has Brad Paisley on the H1000 out front.  I think I remember Kevin telling the story that he uncrated that desk when it was brand new and that's the only artist that it's ever been with.

Somebody already mentioned Green Day and Eric Church. 

Elvis Costello was on an XL4 last time I saw him, but it's been a few years.

To the OP - there are still some artists, but it's few and far between.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Jay Barracato on May 21, 2018, 04:17:24 pm
I think that may be Wayne Pauley's personal console he has out with Lee. 

Dierks used to be on a PM5000 at FOH when that was a VER account.  I know Pugs has switched back to digital on an S6L now, and I think they're back with Clair.

Kevin still has Brad Paisley on the H1000 out front.  I think I remember Kevin telling the story that he uncrated that desk when it was brand new and that's the only artist that it's ever been with.

Somebody already mentioned Green Day and Eric Church. 

Elvis Costello was on an XL4 last time I saw him, but it's been a few years.

To the OP - there are still some artists, but it's few and far between.
My last summer of festivals, which was about 5 years ago, saw a number of country acts with all analog FOH from Clair Nashville. Recently, it has been x32 or m32's but also a good step down on the rider ladder.

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Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 21, 2018, 04:40:05 pm
Fair question.

Back when I was touring the frozen tundra, we had a Mark IV 24 channel mixer and a combination of CS800's & CS400's.  That stuff never let us down - even after -40F truck rides.
yup  BSH engineering... (hint= brick outhouses don't fall down).
Quote
IMHO the gaudy logo and aluminum trim strips should have been jettisoned much sooner.  Some of that has a lingering effect.
Funny during my time there we had some modest success at modernizing the look but the man whose name is on all the buildings has an odd affection for his old logo that looks like he sketched it on his HS notebook cover, because he did.  ::) At one time Melia (RIP) prohibited people from even mentioning changing the logo to Hartley.

His affection for the aluminum extrusions was because the iconic look was easily recognizable from the audience. He was so upset about extrusion scrap from those cosmetic strips that when I tried to bring in an extrusion to make a clamshell package I had an uphill battle, but he relented and they are still using my extrusion package today.  8)
Quote
Saw some very nice speakers for the House of Worship market in the Peavey booth at Nashville NAMM.  I was surprised they weren't further along in the Digital Mixer development,
without revealing too much inside baseball we were well along with a digital console that didn't suck last century, but this was years before Uli trumped that market segment with his spectacularly priced entry, and ours was at a much higher price. In hindsight Peavey probably would have lost market share like everybody else. I can only congratulate Uli for that win. He leaned far out the window and didn't fall. Peavey was unwilling to gamble on a digital console mass market that wasn't obvious until after it happened, at least how to get there wasn't obvious. 
Quote
but maybe that's what the Crest Audio acquisition was all about?

Dave
Um no.... That was Hartley seizing the day when the opportunity to buy Crest on the cheap arose. That money was going to pay for us building a factory in China, but stuff happens (in hindsight, why buy the Chinese cow when the milk is so cheap?). Crest had one solid digital guy, but no digital console chops or program. The Crest console guys who spun out and formed their own console company a few years later, were still riding the "analog only" pony into the ditch.  ???   

JR

PS: Of course I have many more stories but i probably shared too much already.  :-[
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 21, 2018, 04:43:01 pm
My last summer of festivals, which was about 5 years ago, saw a number of country acts with all analog FOH from Clair Nashville. Recently, it has been x32 or m32's but also a good step down on the rider ladder.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Mixerperson demographics at work?  We're probably approaching the EOL for them as well as the consoles.

If I'd mixed the same act(s) on the same desk/outboard for my entire career I'd probably not make big changes when close to retirement.  No reason to.  The gear helped make the clients happy and changing that would be silly.  Note that some of the legacy acts are making their final tours between now and 2020...

These days the number of BEs who have not mixed shows on analog consoles is probably in the majority.

The Rolling Stones FOH Engineer Dave Natale is still using a Yamaha PM-4000
Isn't that his own, personally owned console though?

Yes, it is.  The "B stage" mixer changes from time to time but the A mixer is Dave's PM4K.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Stephen Kirby on May 22, 2018, 04:07:37 pm
I wonder how many of those "legacy" acts are also addicted to the outboard they've been using since their hits were released?

Although maintaining that stuff could be as troublesome as an old desk.  I remember Robben Ford's tech panicking when TC announced the EOL of the 2290.  They got an early warning and were able to snatch up a couple spares but they aren't exactly made out of money like many of the hobbyists who sucked the market dry when they found out (same folks who will shell out $200k for a Dumble amplifier when one comes on the market so they can hook a 2290 to it and think they'll sound like Robben).

There will always be people who think that the sound of their youth was in the equipment used.  I'm sure there are indie bands who are just waiting to get big enough to mandate old analog stuff on their riders.  Just as they dredged up old Tascam Portastudios to get their recording "vibe" with.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 22, 2018, 05:35:27 pm
I wonder how many of those "legacy" acts are also addicted to the outboard they've been using since their hits were released?

Although maintaining that stuff could be as troublesome as an old desk.  I remember Robben Ford's tech panicking when TC announced the EOL of the 2290.  They got an early warning and were able to snatch up a couple spares but they aren't exactly made out of money like many of the hobbyists who sucked the market dry when they found out (same folks who will shell out $200k for a Dumble amplifier when one comes on the market so they can hook a 2290 to it and think they'll sound like Robben).

There will always be people who think that the sound of their youth was in the equipment used.  I'm sure there are indie bands who are just waiting to get big enough to mandate old analog stuff on their riders.  Just as they dredged up old Tascam Portastudios to get their recording "vibe" with.

I don't know about "addicted" but if it's working, it's what you've used for 40 years, why change before The Last Tour?

I know a couple of folks who paid way, way too much for a 2290... and nope, I'm not among them.  I recently sold my M1 and D2 and got almost 25% of my purchase prices!  Whoopee!
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on May 23, 2018, 12:46:03 am
Who would pay piles for a 2290 when you can get the same thing (only better) for $349?
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TC2290--tc-electronic-tc2290-dt-dynamic-delay-desktop-controller
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Diogo Nunes Pereira on May 23, 2018, 10:31:32 am
How rare is it to see these beasts out on large tours these days?

Last summer Van Morrison requested analog console at a festival I work at every year. We provided a Midas H3000, 18 channels of dbx160 and PCM960L. I was bored at monitor world after lunch break and volunteered to help patch channels, sends, returns, inserts and linecheck the whole thing the day before... felt like old times. The insert snakes appreciated the trip outside.

In another festival two summers ago we provided both and XL4 and a Venue Profile at FOH. No band engineer ventured with the XL4, not even those BE with no session for the profile on their sticks (this also, a rare occurence...)
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: brian maddox on May 23, 2018, 11:25:30 am
Last summer Van Morrison requested analog console at a festival I work at every year. We provided a Midas H3000, 18 channels of dbx160 and PCM960L. I was bored at monitor world after lunch break and volunteered to help patch channels, sends, returns, inserts and linecheck the whole thing the day before... felt like old times. The insert snakes appreciated the trip outside.

In another festival two summers ago we provided both and XL4 and a Venue Profile at FOH. No band engineer ventured with the XL4, not even those BE with no session for the profile on their sticks (this also, a rare occurence...)

After my recent experience with an s6l i would have been the one jumping on that XL4.  In a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Steve Litscher on May 23, 2018, 11:36:24 am
Ahh, analog/Peavey memories.

When I was a wee-lad the first board I mixed on was a Peavey XR-12. Powered beast with woodgrained sides. Lugging that thing around was a chore, to say the least. Then we upgraded to an Allen&Heath 24-channel... I can't recall the model. But I'll never forget the rack of CS800s that we used. Holy-hernias-Batman!

But those things were rock solid. They'd sit in the trailer all week in northern Wisconsin, winter/spring/summer/fall, and they never once balked.

After making the jump to digital in 2013, can't say I'd ever go back to analog. I definitely don't miss patching all of the FOH processing equipment or hauling around x# more road cases. :-)

And talking about Uli and the X32/M32... we had a show come through and the rider called for "Avid only!!!" FOH consoles. They asked for the S6L, but in certain pre-approved instances, they'd "accept" a SC-48.

We told them we didn't have any Avid gear; sent our apologies and suggested another sound company in the area that has Avid. We got a response that asked if we had the X32, as that would suffice for them. It's amazing how universally accepted the X32 is (even though I had a good chuckle at the disparity in requirements).
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 23, 2018, 04:08:27 pm
Ahh, analog/Peavey memories.

When I was a wee-lad the first board I mixed on was a Peavey XR-12. Powered beast with woodgrained sides. Lugging that thing around was a chore, to say the least. Then we upgraded to an Allen&Heath 24-channel... I can't recall the model. But I'll never forget the rack of CS800s that we used. Holy-hernias-Batman!

But those things were rock solid. They'd sit in the trailer all week in northern Wisconsin, winter/spring/summer/fall, and they never once balked.

After making the jump to digital in 2013, can't say I'd ever go back to analog. I definitely don't miss patching all of the FOH processing equipment or hauling around x# more road cases. :-)

And talking about Uli and the X32/M32... we had a show come through and the rider called for "Avid only!!!" FOH consoles. They asked for the S6L, but in certain pre-approved instances, they'd "accept" a SC-48.

We told them we didn't have any Avid gear; sent our apologies and suggested another sound company in the area that has Avid. We got a response that asked if we had the X32, as that would suffice for them. It's amazing how universally accepted the X32 is (even though I had a good chuckle at the disparity in requirements).

And this gets to the heart of the matter - it's about what the BE is comfortable using.

As a regional provider we see mostly "self contained" headline acts and support acts that have varying levels of need.  I can't bill the FOH console as a separate line item unless it's rented in at promoter request (IOW artist demand) so buying a $75,000 FOH console is beyond stupid.  Looking down to the middle range there's little outside A-H (who, were we on another continent with a different importer, might get our business).

The Yamaha QL repeats much of what frustrated me with the LS/9, the CL is cool and a decent value when it's on promotion sale with bundled i/o... but only then.  As "everybody's second choice" we'll probably buy a CL5 package...

AVID has introduced smaller surfaces for the S6L line but I've yet to see pricing on any of it.  That we will have to buy SoundGrid server(s) to use Waves plugs is a disappointment.  Anything AVID will have to be price competitive with the Yammy CL.

DigiCo?  As soon as they stop locking up when given a cold, icy stare we'll consider them.  At least there are some mid-scale offerings and more BEs are familiar with them.  Several models close to us for sub-rental.

Soundcraft?  Love the products but there's almost zero demand for them on riders.

I'd love to have an SSL Live or any of the big dog desks but we're based in a 3rd tier city where the acts expect 1st tier gear; no problem except the promoters don't want to pay for 1st tier stuff in smaller markets with lower gross potential.  Throw in that we're ~150 miles from three 2nd tier cities and it's a competitive business to be in.

Our outlook has been to buy at the top of the bottom (M32) for support act use.  We'll eventually replace our Profiles and SC48s and M7s with fewer of something nicer than the M32, and sub-rent anything else.

Edit ps:  Yes, I deliberately left out Midas's non-M32 models.
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Jay Barracato on May 23, 2018, 04:19:43 pm
And this gets to the heart of the matter - it's about what the BE is comfortable using.

As a regional provider we see mostly "self contained" headline acts and support acts that have varying levels of need.  I can't bill the FOH console as a separate line item unless it's rented in at promoter request (IOW artist demand) so buying a $75,000 FOH console is beyond stupid.  Looking down to the middle range there's little outside A-H (who, were we on another continent with a different importer, might get our business).

The Yamaha QL repeats much of what frustrated me with the LS/9, the CL is cool and a decent value when it's on promotion sale with bundled i/o... but only then.  As "everybody's second choice" we'll probably buy a CL5 package...

AVID has introduced smaller surfaces for the S6L line but I've yet to see pricing on any of it.  That we will have to buy SoundGrid server(s) to use Waves plugs is a disappointment.  Anything AVID will have to be price competitive with the Yammy CL.

DigiCo?  As soon as they stop locking up when given a cold, icy stare we'll consider them.  At least there are some mid-scale offerings and more BEs are familiar with them.  Several models close to us for sub-rental.

Soundcraft?  Love the products but there's almost zero demand for them on riders.

I'd love to have an SSL Live or any of the big dog desks but we're based in a 3rd tier city where the acts expect 1st tier gear; no problem except the promoters don't want to pay for 1st tier stuff in smaller markets with lower gross potential.  Throw in that we're ~150 miles from three 2nd tier cities and it's a competitive business to be in.

Our outlook has been to buy at the top of the bottom (M32) for support act use.  We'll eventually replace our Profiles and SC48s and M7s with fewer of something nicer than the M32, and sub-rent anything else.

Edit ps:  Yes, I deliberately left out Midas's non-M32 models.
I just retired the a&h gl3800 in the club.  Being able to save scenes is the only big advantage to the new m32. ( And I guess I did get to blend short tap with long tap, but most of my mixing remains the same with using dca's instead of groups)

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on May 23, 2018, 04:31:22 pm
DigiCo?  As soon as they stop locking up when given a cold, icy stare we'll consider them.  At least there are some mid-scale offerings and more BEs are familiar with them.  Several models close to us for sub-rental.

 I haven't seen an SD console running Core 2 lock up (fingers crossed of course).
Title: Re: Analog consoles still in use on big tours?
Post by: Stephen Kirby on May 23, 2018, 05:18:54 pm
Who would pay piles for a 2290 when you can get the same thing (only better) for $349?
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TC2290--tc-electronic-tc2290-dt-dynamic-delay-desktop-controller
The 2290 is one of those odd pieces of hardware like the DBX160 that seems to improve the sound even when it's not doing anything.  Put into the loop of a guitar amp the internal I/O buffers must do some kind of load matching that's not in the amp because they open up the sound in ways that contrast to how most outboard muddies it.  The VST plugin on a desk that can run it would give you the dynamic delay (which you can get nowadays elsewhere) and that interface would allow you to fly in bits like you used to be able to with a 2290, but you can't insert it into the loop of a $200,000 tube amp (or a $2000 amp for that matter)