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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Console Connectivity Solutions => Topic started by: Steve Alves on October 14, 2017, 10:16:53 am

Title: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Steve Alves on October 14, 2017, 10:16:53 am
I have little to no experience with fiber. I have a Dante setup using two SG-300 switches connected by a 200' run of cat5e.

If I wanted to change that 200' run to fiber, what modules do I need on each end and any fiber recommendations please?
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: John Penkala on October 14, 2017, 10:13:26 pm
I have little to no experience with fiber. I have a Dante setup using two SG-300 switches connected by a 200' run of cat5e.

If I wanted to change that 200' run to fiber, what modules do I need on each end and any fiber recommendations please?

You need at least 1- Gigabit Mini GBIC LX module / Single Mode Fiber Transceivers on each end. That's a total of 4 if you run a redundant Dante network. If you look at one of these transceivers, you'll notice that they have 2 ports. One port is for sending data and the other is for receiving data.  Therefore, the cable you will need will have to have either two (duo) or 4 (quad) fiber channels. I use Neutrik Opticalcon Duo connectors and need to run 2 cables, one to the Primary network and one for the Secondary. Theoretically, you could use the Quad style cable and run both your Primary and Secondary networks over one physical cable that has 4 distinct fiber channels. In my racks I have a panel with Opticalcon panel mount connectors that are connected to the transceivers via "LC" patch cables. Note that you will have to reverse the polarity on one end so that the "Send" on one switch goes to the "Receive" on the other. Because it won't work if Send is patched to Send and likewise for the "Receives".
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Rick Earl on October 14, 2017, 10:16:03 pm
I have little to no experience with fiber. I have a Dante setup using two SG-300 switches connected by a 200' run of cat5e.

If I wanted to change that 200' run to fiber, what modules do I need on each end and any fiber recommendations please?

There are a lot of good choices out there for fiber, I bought mine from Whirlwind with Neutrik Opticalcon connectors, well constructed and no issues. I occasionally borrow some from the TV folks that are made by Markertek, again, no issues.   All these cables get used outside on regular basis, we actually drag them through a storm drain and leave them for a week on one event.  For portable use, I am using Multi-Mode fiber,  which is more than adequate for runs you're talking about and a little less expensive.  I also have single mode modules in some of my SG-3000 switches as I tie into the network on campus for some of my longer runs.  My original modules were Cisco, but my IT folks hooked me up with third part optics that work fine.  I would have to look up the model, but they believe that any of the modules are reliable and that Cisco does not perform and better or last longer considering the cost.
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Steve Alves on October 15, 2017, 08:33:30 am
Thanks guys. Going to start looking up suppliers and part numbers. will post them here before purchasing.
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Riley Casey on October 15, 2017, 07:25:31 pm
Fiber is one of those things that is pretty interchangeable.  Well worth finding out what type of fiber ( single vs multimode ) is available to cross rent in your area.  Single mode has higher bandwidth and distance capabilities but usually far beyond whats applicable to portable production purposes.  I bought multimode because thats what the local deep warehouse rental vendor stocks.  One thing to keep in mind about using quad cable is that you're no longer redundant if your single quad cable gets cut and the Whirlwind cable is certainly as easily cut as any mic cable. 
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Steve Alves on October 15, 2017, 07:54:02 pm
Will use the current cat5e as the redundant. I have extra switches.
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Cailen Waddell on October 15, 2017, 09:52:29 pm
Fiber is one of those things that is pretty interchangeable.  Well worth finding out what type of fiber ( single vs multimode ) is available to cross rent in your area.  Single mode has higher bandwidth and distance capabilities but usually far beyond whats applicable to portable production purposes.  I bought multimode because thats what the local deep warehouse rental vendor stocks.  One thing to keep in mind about using quad cable is that you're no longer redundant if your single quad cable gets cut and the Whirlwind cable is certainly as easily cut as any mic cable.

The core diameter does matter.   In entertainment itís pretty standardized but just because something is single mode or multi mode doesnít always make it compatible with other single or multi mode....


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Title: Re: Fiber
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 15, 2017, 11:15:35 pm
The core diameter does matter.   In entertainment itís pretty standardized but just because something is single mode or multi mode doesnít always make it compatible with other single or multi mode....


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Generally speaking, MM should be interchangeable, 50Ķ should work with 62Ķ. Single mode is really only 1 diameter, but it comes in a couple of incompatible versions. Angle polished fiber will only work with angle polish, straight polish with straight polish. There is not much angle polish used in entertainment, although RF over fiber systems are one place it is.

At around $100 each for SFP modules it may pay to have a set of MM and a set of SM if you have trouble sourcing either one consistently.

Another option are bi-directional SFPs. You need to install them in pairs, so that each run always has an A at one end a B at the other. These let you run a full two way circuit on a single fiber. They might only come in SM. Pete Erskine has o lot of experience with them and even owns a pair of his own to use on shows.

If you will be renting fiber it is probably wise to wire your racks to ST connectors as ST-ST fiber is the most widely available. It is what every video truck is wired with and there are hundreds of miles of it available for rent. Someone like VER can also supply with HMA expanded beam connectors or maybe OpticalCon. HMA is my favorite OpticalCon least favorite.

Mac
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Steve Alves on October 16, 2017, 08:24:18 pm
Which one? Advantages or disadvantages of each? The top link is 250 feet but it is also available in 500.

https://www.markertek.com/product/hf-tr04stm3-0250/camplex-4-channel-st-multi-mode-om3-fiber-optic-tactical-reel-250-foot

https://www.markertek.com/product/hf-trp04lc-0500/camplex-4-channel-lc-single-mode-fiber-optic-tactical-snake-on-reel-500-ft-w-protective-pulling-sleeve
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: brian maddox on October 17, 2017, 04:37:51 pm
Which one? Advantages or disadvantages of each? The top link is 250 feet but it is also available in 500.

https://www.markertek.com/product/hf-tr04stm3-0250/camplex-4-channel-st-multi-mode-om3-fiber-optic-tactical-reel-250-foot

https://www.markertek.com/product/hf-trp04lc-0500/camplex-4-channel-lc-single-mode-fiber-optic-tactical-snake-on-reel-500-ft-w-protective-pulling-sleeve

I am not anywhere near an expert on this subject, but i know what we use where i work and i know it works well.

The fiber with the sleeve over the end for pulling is a Very Good Idea.  Fiber ends don't like getting beat up, and this tends to keep that from happening.

AS to the differences in specific tactical fiber, i don't really have any first hand knowledge.  I"m sure others can pipe in.

I will say that we use the Bi-Directional SFPs with Very Good Results.  I'm a particular fan of these as it prevents the inevitable reverse patching [was it yellow to yellow?  Yellow to White?  was white on...?  wait which one is Primary?] and the 20 minutes it takes to walk back and forth and figure out where you did it.  One color Module on one end and One on the other and it works.

All the other things Mac said are also on point. 

Good luck and welcome to the Light!  :)
Title: Re: Cisco SG-300 and Fiber
Post by: Brian Bolly on November 13, 2017, 08:42:28 am
A day (month) late and a dollar short to the fiber party, but let me emphasize one point, especially for those new to the fiber game:

CLEAN.  YOUR.  FIBER.

Whatever cable you have, whatever connectors you settle on, make sure you have a fiber cleaning kit in your bag and CLEAN YOUR ENDS.  Dust caps and pulling shields help, but a spec of dust can be the difference between signal and dropouts.

/soapbox

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