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Title: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 09, 2017, 04:00:47 pm
Hey ProSound peeps -

Man, would I ever be indebted for some help from you knowledgeable folks here. I am running a rig with Turbosound IP2000, basically a knockoff of BOSE line array, with 2 small wedge monitors for Dueling Pianos. We have had bizarre problems.
-Crackling and distortion, even at relatively low to medium volume levels. 
-Tried everything: different cables, DI boxes for keyboards, and DI box for Mackie ProFx12 mixer
-Exchanged Turbosound for a brand new unit: Same exact issues.
-Exchanged Mackie mixer, for an Allen and Heath Zed14, arguably better quality mixer with much more headroom. Same issues, although slightly better.

I would be indebted to the point of mad jubilation for any help. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, or if these issues are endemic to IP2000. Some further details:

-Bluetooth streaming sounds amazing through IP2000, and I can crank the volume to unfathomable levels with NO clipping, crackling, or distortion.
-Similarly, I can plug acoustic guitar and keyboard into the Inputs A and B of IP2000, go extremely loud, with no clipping, crackling, or distortion.

SO WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!! It's ONLY via a mixer that we are having problems, it doesn't seem to be an issue with the unit per se OR the inputs. Now tried 2 different mixers, and 2 different Turbosound speakers, with same problems.

Thanks in advance for your expertise.
Title: Posting Rules
Post by: Mac Kerr on September 09, 2017, 04:03:26 pm
Hey ProSound peeps -

Man, would I ever be indebted for some help from you knowledgeable folks here.

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 09, 2017, 05:26:44 pm
My opinion after having tried these out is that they're basically unusable crap even for a solo singer-songwriter playing to 20 people.  Get your money back if you can.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Stu McDoniel on September 09, 2017, 06:49:29 pm
Hey ProSound peeps -

Man, would I ever be indebted for some help from you knowledgeable folks here. I am running a rig with Turbosound IP2000, basically a knockoff of BOSE line array, with 2 small wedge monitors for Dueling Pianos. We have had bizarre problems.
-Crackling and distortion, even at relatively low to medium volume levels. 
-Tried everything: different cables, DI boxes for keyboards, and DI box for Mackie ProFx12 mixer
-Exchanged Turbosound for a brand new unit: Same exact issues.
-Exchanged Mackie mixer, for an Allen and Heath Zed14, arguably better quality mixer with much more headroom. Same issues, although slightly better.

I would be indebted to the point of mad jubilation for any help. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, or if these issues are endemic to IP2000. Some further details:

-Bluetooth streaming sounds amazing through IP2000, and I can crank the volume to unfathomable levels with NO clipping, crackling, or distortion.
-Similarly, I can plug acoustic guitar and keyboard into the Inputs A and B of IP2000, go extremely loud, with no clipping, crackling, or distortion.

SO WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!! It's ONLY via a mixer that we are having problems, it doesn't seem to be an issue with the unit per se OR the inputs. Now tried 2 different mixers, and 2 different Turbosound speakers, with same problems.

Thanks in advance for your expertise.
  I am suspecting the crackling and distortion is some input into your mixer/s.  I suspect gain structure issue at the mixer level. 
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 09, 2017, 08:12:01 pm
  I am suspecting the crackling and distortion is some input into your mixer/s.  I suspect gain structure issue at the mixer level.

Thanks for your help, Yep after almost an entire day now of research, I think that may have been the issue all along. Been running live sound with bands for years, but basically at the idiot level in terms of genuine knowledge. Nice education here going through the forums.

Do you have any specific advice for gain structure with keyboards? Any good reason to run them through DI boxes into the mixer? Just did an hour long test with Pre-fader-Listen each step of the way, I moved my gain for each channel to where the **loudest chords/vocals were still 'green', then adjusted the channel volume faders and Main faders to achieve a nice mix. We beat the stuffing out of our keys and couldn't get it to clip. I have my fingers crossed, as it has been a real headache for about 4 shows trying to figure this all out.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 09, 2017, 08:15:35 pm
My opinion after having tried these out is that they're basically unusable crap even for a solo singer-songwriter playing to 20 people.  Get your money back if you can.

Turbosound specifically, or line array systems in general? This system, while it has been a nightmare trying to figure out (as someone with little pro sound understanding) what was wrong, actually sounds amazing with streaming music. Live sounds good too, although does seem to be extremely sensitive compared to normal speaker cabs.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Stu McDoniel on September 10, 2017, 10:49:40 am
I realize keyboard levels go up and down by the user.
Setting your input gain levels and output gain levels so they are "in the green" at your highest keyboard levels is correct.
If you see red you are into the clipping/distortion world again.  You could insert compression on the keyboard channel and squeeze
the dynamics of your input signal.   If you do not have experience with compression then you might want to stay away
from it.


Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Al Torrance on September 10, 2017, 11:15:04 am
It definitely sounds like your over driving your inputs on your IP or you might need to switch the input on the IP from line level to mic level. If that is not possible, you need to dramatically lower your output on your mixer. Just make sure your not cranking up your channel volume too far past the Master volume of the mixer or you'll be creating distortion within the mixer.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Don T. Williams on September 10, 2017, 11:31:48 am
It definitely sounds like your over driving your inputs on your IP or you might need to switch the input on the IP from line level to mic level. If that is not possible, you need to dramatically lower your output on your mixer. Just make sure your not cranking up your channel volume too far past the Master volume of the mixer or you'll be creating distortion within the mixer.

Al, are you sure about that.  My experience with the IP and almost any other active system with mic and line gain settings is just the opposite.  In the "mic" setting it is very easy to overload the input to the speaker system.  The mic setting is adding a lot of gain and easily overloaded by a line level output from a mixer.  The "line" level setting is designed for a line level signal.  It can be overloaded, but it takes more effort.  I've had clueless rental customers take the output from 3000 watt power amps and patch them into the line level inputs of my QSC K series rental gear.  Usually (but not always) the QSC's survived.

Word of warning: If someone ask for a Speakon to XLR adapter be afraid, be very afraid!
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Yoel Farkas on September 10, 2017, 03:32:13 pm
Watch synaudcon video about gain structure.
https://youtu.be/Acu5FLj-D_Q
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Steve Garris on September 10, 2017, 03:47:56 pm
Is this happening at more that one location? If it's just one location, could it be a problem with the house wiring?
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 11, 2017, 04:59:15 pm
Al, are you sure about that.  My experience with the IP and almost any other active system with mic and line gain settings is just the opposite.  In the "mic" setting it is very easy to overload the input to the speaker system.  The mic setting is adding a lot of gain and easily overloaded by a line level output from a mixer.  The "line" level setting is designed for a line level signal.  It can be overloaded, but it takes more effort.  I've had clueless rental customers take the output from 3000 watt power amps and patch them into the line level inputs of my QSC K series rental gear.  Usually (but not always) the QSC's survived.

Hey Don - Sweetwater is now sending me a 3rd unit. The replacement one had some loose screws in one of the columns. So I do suspect some quality control issues - however -

There seems to be no way to change from 'Mic' to 'Line' level on the IP2000, except using an XLR vs a 1/4 inch cable from the Mixer. Do you have any other suggestions? Their inputs are combo inputs, they can accept either XLR or 1/4 inch. My A&H Zed 14 Mixer has L/R XLR out's, 1/4 inch outs, and a Mono out, which is a 1/4 inch.

I am all ears for any help here!

Word of warning: If someone ask for a Speakon to XLR adapter be afraid, be very afraid!
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 11, 2017, 05:05:00 pm
Is this happening at more that one location? If it's just one location, could it be a problem with the house wiring?

Multiple locations and with TWO separate IP2000 units!!

Which surely means I am doing something wrong...although there are serious complaints online about Turbosound quality control, so not crazy to think I got two bad units, one of which did have internal screws loose in one of the speaker columns.

I have been extremely careful to make sure I'm not clipping or peaking at the Mixer level. It never goes beyond 'Green' on the Master LED meter.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 11, 2017, 05:27:42 pm
Quote from: Wesley David uslink=topic=164803.msg1518835#msg1518835 date=1505163900
Multiple locations and with TWO separate IP2000 units!!

Which surely means I am doing something wrong...although there are serious complaints online about Turbosound quality control, so not crazy to think I got two bad units, one of which did have internal screws loose in one of the speaker columns.

I have been extremely careful to make sure I'm not clipping or peaking at the Mixer level. It never goes beyond 'Green' on the Master LED meter.

I'm not surprised you're having problems with more than one unit in more than one location.  The sad fact is they're ALL crap in any location.  It's just a BAD product and you need to get something better.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Don T. Williams on September 11, 2017, 05:57:08 pm


Wesley, sorry about that.  I was confusing the IP (without a mic/line switch) and IQ series which has a mic/line switch.  I have both in rental stock so I'll do better research this time and try to find a solution.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 11, 2017, 06:33:14 pm
Wesley, sorry about that.  I was confusing the IP (without a mic/line switch) and IQ series which has a mic/line switch.  I have both in rental stock so I'll do better research this time and try to find a solution.

Hi Don - Would be indebted for any suggestions. I have fellow players who use BOSE and even HK elements line array with our type of setup with no issues, and normal mixers. Even after a much better understanding now of gain structure, still seems like something is clipping the IP2000 input gains, but ONLY with a mixer...but the Mixer LED is not peaking. It's at Unity, and nice even green.  In other words, streaming bluetooth music, and plugging a keyboard and guitar straight into the unit causes no issues, and the volume goes quite loud, but using a mixer causes problems.

It seems to take about 10 mins, and then all of a sudden, crackling and distortion begins. I would be indebted for any ideas.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Stu McDoniel on September 11, 2017, 06:43:39 pm
Hi Don - Would be indebted for any suggestions. I have fellow players who use BOSE and even HK elements line array with our type of setup with no issues, and normal mixers. Even after a much better understanding now of gain structure, still seems like something is clipping the IP2000 input gains, but ONLY with a mixer...but the Mixer LED is not peaking. It's at Unity, and nice even green.  In other words, streaming bluetooth music, and plugging a keyboard and guitar straight into the unit causes no issues, and the volume goes quite loud, but using a mixer causes problems.

It seems to take about 10 mins, and then all of a sudden, crackling and distortion begins. I would be indebted for any ideas.
What is the source/s you are feeding into the mixer?  A single keyboard crackling/distorting?   Narrow it down to which source is a possible cause.   Try one source input into the mixer at a time.   Try to recreate the problem with one source at a time input into the mixer.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Mike Caldwell on September 11, 2017, 08:14:43 pm
Plug some headphones into the mixer and see if you the hear the "crackling sound"  there. If you do it's not a speaker problem.

If the headphones sound clean my guess is that the inputs on the speaker are set to mic level and your over driving them , I think you need to get into the set up menu to change the input levels on those.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 12, 2017, 12:28:58 am
Plug some headphones into the mixer and see if you the hear the "crackling sound"  there. If you do it's not a speaker problem.

If the headphones sound clean my guess is that the inputs on the speaker are set to mic level and your over driving them , I think you need to get into the set up menu to change the input levels on those.

Thanks for the suggestion, in fact at the most recent show we were also using a Mackie Thump speaker. Only the Turbosound distorted. The Mackie had no issues whatsoever. They were getting the L and R feed from the Mixer, respectively. 
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 12, 2017, 12:41:35 am
What is the source/s you are feeding into the mixer?  A single keyboard crackling/distorting?   Narrow it down to which source is a possible cause.   Try one source input into the mixer at a time.   Try to recreate the problem with one source at a time input into the mixer.

Everything. 2 keyboards, 2 mics. But here are some other quirks (this is like playing Whack-a-mole)
-It takes 5-10 mins to start distorting. But no changes to our volume have taken place, and no changes on the mixer.
-Even when I STOP playing, so there's just one keyboard, and one singer, it keeps crackling. I stop sometimes for a minute or two just to listen and check the board, always green. Absolutely no clipping or peaking at the Mixer level.

Confusing right?
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 12, 2017, 01:03:16 am
Plug some headphones into the mixer and see if you the hear the "crackling sound"  there. If you do it's not a speaker problem.

If the headphones sound clean my guess is that the inputs on the speaker are set to mic level and your over driving them , I think you need to get into the set up menu to change the input levels on those.

Unfortunately there is no such option on the unit. I'm guessing it's supposed to 'read' the input source automatically and make adjustments, i.e., the difference between a mic being directly plugged in, or a mixer via XLR. On their website and in the manual, it mentions multiple times being perfectly compatible with external mixers.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Mike Caldwell on September 12, 2017, 07:31:07 am
Unfortunately there is no such option on the unit. I'm guessing it's supposed to 'read' the input source automatically and make adjustments, i.e., the difference between a mic being directly plugged in, or a mixer via XLR. On their website and in the manual, it mentions multiple times being perfectly compatible with external mixers.

Ok I just read the quick start guide, page 11 and yes there is an input gain control in the set up menu under the sub menu "input".
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: David Winners on September 12, 2017, 08:42:41 am
Are you clipping the input on the DSP in the iP2000?
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 12, 2017, 03:51:39 pm
Ok I just read the quick start guide, page 11 and yes there is an input gain control in the set up menu under the sub menu "input".

There is, there is also a Master volume, but there is not a dedicated switch or function knob to choose between Mic or Line.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Mike Caldwell on September 12, 2017, 04:33:38 pm
There is, there is also a Master volume, but there is not a dedicated switch or function knob to choose between Mic or Line.

The input gain setting is what determines mic level or line level. What do you have it set at? Have you tried the headphone test?
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 12, 2017, 05:04:24 pm
The input gain setting is what determines mic level or line level. What do you have it set at? Have you tried the headphone test?

If anyone bothers to read them, the INSTRUCTIONS tell you to start with the volume at zero:  completely "bottomed", though the LED's run sideways, apply signal and raise the level on the iP appropriately.  So...

Given a healthy dose of OE or prototypical guy attitude of "I don't need no stinkin' manual", it appears the sky may not actually be falling after all.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Stephen Kirby on September 12, 2017, 05:06:05 pm
Typically, keyboards have pretty hot outputs.  And can overload a consumer line level input pretty easily when cranked.

Does the distortion happen when the keyboards are turned down on their control panels?  If not, then you either have to get the players to keep their boards at levels below distortion, or get some kind of in-line pad to reduce the levels.  I typically use a passive stereo Radial DI box on keyboards and there is a pad button on it if someone persists in diming their keyboard all the time.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Stu McDoniel on September 12, 2017, 08:55:22 pm
Everything is pointing to operator error here.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 13, 2017, 12:03:35 am
If anyone bothers to read them, the INSTRUCTIONS tell you to start with the volume at zero:  completely "bottomed", though the LED's run sideways, apply signal and raise the level on the iP appropriately.  So...

Given a healthy dose of OE or prototypical guy attitude of "I don't need no stinkin' manual", it appears the sky may not actually be falling after all.

I am the exception my friend. I read EVERY manual, in fact, I have already complained to their company that the manual leaves a lot to be desired.

Have done this already with volume at -60 (muted). Raised slowly. Not clipping the mixer. And it takes 5-10 mins to start distorting on the IP2000, with no volume changes on our end.

If you guys with more knowledge than me are interested, help me understand that aspect. If we were cranked, bad gain structure and all, wouldn't the distortion start right from the get go? It doesn't.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 13, 2017, 12:05:47 am
Typically, keyboards have pretty hot outputs.  And can overload a consumer line level input pretty easily when cranked.

Does the distortion happen when the keyboards are turned down on their control panels?  If not, then you either have to get the players to keep their boards at levels below distortion, or get some kind of in-line pad to reduce the levels.  I typically use a passive stereo Radial DI box on keyboards and there is a pad button on it if someone persists in diming their keyboard all the time.

They do indeed, and previously on my Mackie mixer, I tried DI boxes and raised the gain to decent signal level, and it didn't matter.

Now using Allen and Heath mixer, I have not tried DI's yet but I did just order an in-line pad, we'll see if that does anything.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 13, 2017, 12:10:48 am
They do indeed, and previously on my Mackie mixer, I tried DI boxes and raised the gain to decent signal level, and it didn't matter.

Now using Allen and Heath mixer, I have not tried DI's yet but I did just order an in-line pad, we'll see if that does anything.

You are taking the beating pretty well.  I have followed this closely and it seems you have made all the right moves.  The fact it takes awhile to occur without gain changes is an odd data point.  Some of the more experienced have chosen to discard it as impossible.

For a moment let's assume the input signal characteristics are in now way changing over time.

Does music played through the mixer do the same thing?  What happens if you reduce the output gain?  Can you recreate this at your shop or home?

Let's for a moment assume the mixer is somehow presenting a load to the speakers it doesn't like.  Unlikely with the high impedance but let's go with it for a moment.  If the input section was overheating something along these lines may happen.  If you turn the speaker off, wait 10 minutes does the time to crackling reset? 

We need more data.

Remember the sign above my desk "in God we trust, all others bring data"

Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 13, 2017, 12:12:37 am
The input gain setting is what determines mic level or line level. What do you have it set at? Have you tried the headphone test?

This is not what Sweetwater reps told me. Their tech team said typically for Line array speaker units, the XLR mic input is expecting a Mic-level source, whereas the 1/4 inch can be Line.

But, here's the kicker, I have ALREADY tried 1/4 inch balanced and unbalanced from the corresponding out on a Mixer, no change. It's not like we're blasting the volume either. Just +10 on the IP2000 input gain, and 0 dBu Master. Not terribly loud, and nowhere near its top setting.

We used a rig like this with HK elements, an even cheaper and less well known line array years ago, my buddy had it. No issues. Clear sound. No distortion, small Mackie mixer. 
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 13, 2017, 12:21:55 am
This is not what Sweetwater reps told me. Their tech team said typically for Line array speaker units, the XLR mic input is expecting a Mic-level source, whereas the 1/4 inch can be Line.

But, here's the kicker, I have ALREADY tried 1/4 inch balanced and unbalanced from the corresponding out on a Mixer, no change. It's not like we're blasting the volume either. Just +10 on the IP2000 input gain, and 0 dBu Master. Not terribly loud, and nowhere near its top setting.

We used a rig like this with HK elements, an even cheaper and less well known line array years ago, my buddy had it. No issues. Clear sound. No distortion, small Mackie mixer.

I like the HK Elements.  Our partner production company has a literal assload of HK Actor,  just when you think they are not going to go out much here they are on side fill data with an 80's singer you may have heard of: 

https://www.facebook.com/ProShowCleveland/videos/1571708379569205/

In fact if you had the 835's I would get them back!

Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 13, 2017, 12:37:16 am
This is not what Sweetwater reps told me. Their tech team said typically for Line array speaker units, the XLR mic input is expecting a Mic-level source, whereas the 1/4 inch can be Line.

But, here's the kicker, I have ALREADY tried 1/4 inch balanced and unbalanced from the corresponding out on a Mixer, no change. It's not like we're blasting the volume either. Just +10 on the IP2000 input gain, and 0 dBu Master. Not terribly loud, and nowhere near its top setting.

We used a rig like this with HK elements, an even cheaper and less well known line array years ago, my buddy had it. No issues. Clear sound. No distortion, small Mackie mixer.

Wes...

The sad fact remains that even if you follow the instructions in THE MANUAL, the iP stuff is crap.  Give it up, get your money back if you can and get a couple of S.O.S.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 13, 2017, 01:05:35 am
I like the HK Elements.  Our partner production company has a literal assload of HK Actor,  just when you think they are not going to go out much here they are on side fill data with an 80's singer you may have heard of: 

https://www.facebook.com/ProShowCleveland/videos/1571708379569205/

In fact if you had the 835's I would get them back!


You know your line array's sir! It was a decent system, very portable.

I'm not sure if I will keep the IP2000 or not, even if I can find a solution to all this. The odd thing is, as an amateur, I do see it's power amp rating is 1000 watts. Even if it's not capable of near that number, I would still think it's powerful enough for what we do without issues. So this has surprised me.

Open to any and all suggestions. Trying DI boxes again, plus in-line pad for the Mixer. Is it plausible to keep the Mixer's master volume faders at far, far below Unity gain, and then jack the input gain on the IP2000 speaker? Would that be preferable to being at Unity on the Mixer and then having little to no headroom on the IP2000?
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 13, 2017, 01:08:39 am
Wes...

The sad fact remains that even if you follow the instructions in THE MANUAL, the iP stuff is crap.  Give it up, get your money back if you can and get a couple of S.O.S.

I appreciate your two cents, believe me, I share this opinion, LOL. It does a number of things I like though, I feel like I did with my old 'band van' that it's become an investment....if I can find a solution.

The sound quality for streaming music over Bluetooth is excellent. Pretty good bass. 

But I need to find a way to drive the unit, a little, via a Mixer with no clipping or distortion. I'm definitely not clipping at the Mixer level, that I can tell. I am open to suggestions if you have any.

Recommendation on traditional speakers otherwise? Leaning towards EV or QSC
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 13, 2017, 02:25:49 am
You know your line array's sir! It was a decent system, very portable.

I'm not sure if I will keep the IP2000 or not, even if I can find a solution to all this. The odd thing is, as an amateur, I do see it's power amp rating is 1000 watts. Even if it's not capable of near that number, I would still think it's powerful enough for what we do without issues. So this has surprised me.

Open to any and all suggestions. Trying DI boxes again, plus in-line pad for the Mixer. Is it plausible to keep the Mixer's master volume faders at far, far below Unity gain, and then jack the input gain on the IP2000 speaker? Would that be preferable to being at Unity on the Mixer and then having little to no headroom on the IP2000?

Don't go to extremes,   Try bring the master fader back 6db (on it's scale) below unity then bring the input gain up on the TS's until they are just starting to limit (do they have a limit light)? 

You didn't answer my questions regarding the time and reset results.

Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Mike Caldwell on September 13, 2017, 08:52:28 am
Did you ever listen to the mixer with headphones to see what it sounds like at that point?
Granted to headphone out pick off point is a stage or two before the mixers final output but at least it will tell you what the source coming into the mixer sounds like.

Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 13, 2017, 09:09:46 am
The sound quality for streaming music over Bluetooth is excellent.

No, it's not. 
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on September 13, 2017, 09:19:42 am
My understanding is you're running instruments into a desk and then out to a Turbosound IP2000 that may or may not be expecting mic-level inputs on its XLRs.

Being methodical for a moment...
1 - PFL each input at the desk. What do the meters show? Any clipping? If not, proceed to the next step.
2 - AFL the desk main out. What do the meters show? Any clipping? If not, proceed to the next step.
3 - Look at the input levels on the IP2000. You might need an iPad or something. Are the inputs clipping? If not, proceed to the next step.
4 - What do the master levels on the IP2000 show? Any clipping/limiting?

What do all of your EQ settings look like? Is there a big pile of boost somewhere that might cause things to overload?

Once we've established that nothing in the chain is being driven into the red by user error, we can consider that something in the chain isn't working correctly.

The fact that the behaviour appears to change after 10 minutes is very odd. Is there anything at all that happens that seems to cause the change? Keyboardist messing with the output volume and/or changing patch..?

Chris
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Jay Marr on September 13, 2017, 09:21:29 am
As many are stating, you may want to cut your losses and go for a return.

RCV Evox sound damn good....more money, but 'cry once'.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on September 13, 2017, 10:34:41 am
No, it's not.

+1 I heard this system at my local dealer a couple weeks ago with bluetooth audio from a phone and my first thought was that it sounded brittle even at moderate volume. After reading this thread it appears there may be a design flaw or something in the default settings is way off. That may be fixable via a firmware update but that hinges on the manufacturer accepting that there is a problem and issuing an update... and that is assuming these things can have the onboard firmware(software) updated in the field or by a certified service center.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Don T. Williams on September 13, 2017, 01:37:31 pm
One more thing to try, and this is not from the manual.  Starting with the input level all the way down, turn the Master all the way up.  Then turn to input level to the point where you have the volume you need (if you can get the level you need).  Listen for the "crackling".

I suspect these loudspeakers were really designed as competitors for the Bose L1 series.  I'm not certain I would call either a "pro product" from an application standpoint, and I'm not trying to insult the products.  Bose certainly states in it's descriptions that their product is a personal monitor/performing system and indicates it is designed for use on small events.  I have heard L1's used as "main systems" and even for 100 people outdoors, they were woefully inadequate.  I think the IP2000 would outperform them in this situation, but not by a lot.  I have used the IP2000 for delayed reinforcement to a 40' x 80' beer tent several times, and in this situation they worked adequately.  This is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Jason Joseph on September 14, 2017, 03:31:39 pm
Try different XLR cable. Maybe a grounding issue..
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Wesley David on September 15, 2017, 05:05:08 am
One more thing to try, and this is not from the manual.  Starting with the input level all the way down, turn the Master all the way up.  Then turn to input level to the point where you have the volume you need (if you can get the level you need).  Listen for the "crackling".

I suspect these loudspeakers were really designed as competitors for the Bose L1 series.  I'm not certain I would call either a "pro product" from an application standpoint, and I'm not trying to insult the products.  Bose certainly states in it's descriptions that their product is a personal monitor/performing system and indicates it is designed for use on small events.  I have heard L1's used as "main systems" and even for 100 people outdoors, they were woefully inadequate.  I think the IP2000 would outperform them in this situation, but not by a lot.  I have used the IP2000 for delayed reinforcement to a 40' x 80' beer tent several times, and in this situation they worked adequately.  This is just my opinion.

Will definitely give this a shot! Much appreciated.

If I can't figure something out I will just have to accept lugging speakers around, ha. This entire foolish enterprise of mine was essentially laziness.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on September 18, 2017, 09:50:45 am
Are you sure that it isnít coming out of the keyboard distorted. That is why people are asking you to try listening (when it is distorting) to the mixer input channel with headphones. I had a church that was complaining about a keyboard distorting it took a while to figure it out but the internal gain stages of the key board was set in such a way that even with the keyboard output turned down it would distort. I also think it didnít do it till a little bit of time had passed.

Is the only thing distorting the keyboard? What keyboard is it? You could try recording the keyboard and listen to make sure it isnít distorting and then play the recording back and see if the speakers are distorting at that point. Or play the keyboard and when you start hearing the distortion switch to playing back some prerecorded music that you know very well that has something that is very clear. And crank it and see if you hear the distortion at that point. Be sure to switch immediately have it standing by on pause to hit it quickly.   
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Don T. Williams on September 18, 2017, 11:41:12 am
Are you sure that it isnít coming out of the keyboard distorted. That is why people are asking you to try listening (when it is distorting) to the mixer input channel with headphones. I had a church that was complaining about a keyboard distorting it took a while to figure it out but the internal gain stages of the key board was set in such a way that even with the keyboard output turned down it would distort. I also think it didnít do it till a little bit of time had passed.
 
Kevin, I'm having the same problem with one of my church customers.  They think the distortion only comes from the monitors, but it is in the main system also.  Because of the more limited low frequency content coming from the monitors, and the fact that they have the monitors louder than the main system, they hear the distortion as worse in the monitors.  (Small church, loud praise band.)  I tried every trick I knew of to try to solve the gain structure issue, but it isn't gain structure in this case.  It's the keyboard!  This one is a Yamaha Motif.  Has this been a problem for anyone else?
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on September 18, 2017, 01:10:20 pm
Kevin, I'm having the same problem with one of my church customers.  They think the distortion only comes from the monitors, but it is in the main system also.  Because of the more limited low frequency content coming from the monitors, and the fact that they have the monitors louder than the main system, they hear the distortion as worse in the monitors.  (Small church, loud praise band.)  I tried every trick I knew of to try to solve the gain structure issue, but it isn't gain structure in this case.  It's the keyboard!  This one is a Yamaha Motif.  Has this been a problem for anyone else?

I think the one I was referring to was a Motif also.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: PaulTonks on September 25, 2017, 12:45:27 pm
I had a similar issue when I was running Left and Right outputs from the desk into A & B inputs on the ip2000. It is my considered opinion that these units will only take a mono signal. I have had no issues since running one in mono - or if stereo is required (or more power) I run 2 ip2000s. I suspect the DSP trying to process 2 of the same signals into what can only be a mono speaker system if we think about it, is what was causing my issue and I strongly suspect your too. This seems counter intuitive to me and the manual is silent on the subject but I've had excellent results since using ONLY 1 input channel per ip2000.
Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Martin West on May 22, 2018, 04:35:38 pm
I'm glad to have found this post as I have been having very similar issues with mine. My previous set-up was a pair of EV ZLX-12p with a Mackie Profx12 mixer. I'm a solo artist so my set-up is pretty minimal - acoustic or electric guitar, vocals, foot percussion. The EVs sounded great but I hated lugging them around. I found myself wanting something easier to carry around and set-up. After a bunch of research I chose the Turbosound IP2000 as an alternative to the ridiculously expensive Bose towers.

I got it set-up, played some music through Bluetooth and was excited to try some live sound. I plugged in my electric guitar with sans amp pedal into the mixer then into the IP2000 and it sounded like absolute sh!t...distorting, vibrating sound. I thought it was maybe just the pedal. I tried running a midi keyboard using Ableton through it and it still sounded like crap.

I thought maybe I got a bad one so I returned it and exchanged it for another. Took it to an open mic I host and tested it out there. Seemed to be doing the same thing. I had a spoken word artist get up and you could barely hear him through the crowd without clipping. The building is long but there was no more than 50 people in there.

I think I was fooling myself into thinking I could replace two speakers with one. I was still debating on whether to give it another try but it seems like they just aren't up to par.
Title: Posting Rules
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 22, 2018, 04:43:57 pm
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Title: Re: Turbosound IP2000 getting 'crackling' sound with keyboards
Post by: Christopher Parker on September 05, 2018, 03:33:36 pm
I have a pair of these.  They worked really well for 6 months.  I was doing an 11 piece horn band and a 9 piece Disco band with ease.  And they sounded great.  I did have additional sub supports.  Recently one started to distort in one of the upper towers when a male was singing.  The other developed a loose piece inside.  I sent both back for service and they are on their way back to me.  They claim to have fixed the loose bit and that otherwise they are fine.  Well we will see. 

I guess my issue is a lot like the OP.  As the gig went on the top would start to distort.  Not really bad but a good listener would notice it.

I will write back when I get them beck.