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Title: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on June 15, 2015, 06:44:56 pm
If it is ever 1977 again, I'm going to use these amps.  My son found them at a nearby house with a 'help yourself' sign next to them.  It would have been rude not to take them!

Recording Studio Design later became Studiomaster.  The model number of this amplifier is 800b which implies 800 watts which I also assume is 400w per side,  Each amplifier's heatsink has eight 2N3773 transistors so it is feasible.

I haven't found out much about them other than something about the company wanting to bring the high quality of studio recording to live sound.

(http://stevesmithphoto.webs.com/RSD1.JPG)

Speaker outputs on male XLR.  Input unbalanced on XLR.  Power input is also on XLR (but a version intended for high voltage) There is a big fan on the back but if they are rack mounted, gaps will need to be left above and below as the only other ventilation is in the top and bottom panels.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Jim McKeveny on February 04, 2016, 11:10:30 am
If it is ever 1977 again, I'm going to use these amps.  My son found them at a nearby house with a 'help yourself' sign next to them.  It would have been rude not to take them!

Recording Studio Design later became Studiomaster.  The model number of this amplifier is 800b which implies 800 watts which I also assume is 400w per side,  Each amplifier's heatsink has eight 2N3773 transistors so it is feasible.

I haven't found out much about them other than something about the company wanting to bring the high quality of studio recording to live sound.

(http://stevesmithphoto.webs.com/RSD1.JPG)

Speaker outputs on male XLR.  Input unbalanced on XLR.  Power input is also on XLR (but a version intended for high voltage) There is a big fan on the back but if they are rack mounted, gaps will need to be left above and below as the only other ventilation is in the top and bottom panels.

I saw the US version of these at a music store in Hempstead, NY around that time. Even though I was pretty young and green to audio I recall thinking that the use of XLR on the in's and out's could easily end up badly....
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 04, 2016, 01:28:14 pm
I'm old enough to remember having a mixture of 1/4" jacks and XLRs for speaker connections.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on February 04, 2016, 02:01:00 pm
If it is ever 1977 again, I'm going to use these amps.  My son found them at a nearby house with a 'help yourself' sign next to them.  It would have been rude not to take them!

Recording Studio Design later became Studiomaster.  The model number of this amplifier is 800b which implies 800 watts which I also assume is 400w per side,  Each amplifier's heatsink has eight 2N3773 transistors so it is feasible.

I haven't found out much about them other than something about the company wanting to bring the high quality of studio recording to live sound.


Speaker outputs on male XLR.  Input unbalanced on XLR.  Power input is also on XLR (but a version intended for high voltage) There is a big fan on the back but if they are rack mounted, gaps will need to be left above and below as the only other ventilation is in the top and bottom panels.
My DIY amp built in early '70s used 8ea 2n3773 per channel making 250W at 8 ohms... So perhaps they are talking about 2x400W at 4 ohms?

JR

PS: Slow but robust power devices. My amp still worked last time I turned it on.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: John L Nobile on February 04, 2016, 02:06:58 pm
Used to have a Studiomaster board. Whatever became of that company?
Title: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 04, 2016, 02:22:57 pm
I started with a 16 channel Studiomaster.

(https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/low-end-theory/117361d1239205182-studiomaster-16-4-2-opinions-studiomaster-16-4-2-1.jpg)

The company appears to be still in business: http://www.studiomaster.com/


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 04, 2016, 06:47:00 pm
I'm old enough to remember having a mixture of 1/4" jacks and XLRs for speaker connections.
I used to use that exact same input configuration for my speakers.

The XLRs handle more current and are easy to extend-just like mic cables.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 04, 2016, 06:53:54 pm
I started with a 16 channel Studiomaster.

(https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/low-end-theory/117361d1239205182-studiomaster-16-4-2-opinions-studiomaster-16-4-2-1.jpg)

The company appears to be still in business: http://www.studiomaster.com/


Steve.
That was when the company made good products.

A couple of decades ago they were making crap-using the same name.

Not sure if it was the same company.

My first large format console was a StudioMixer II.  It was supposedly designed by one of the engineers that formed Studiomaster.

It was 32x8 and almost 8' wide.  You can see it in this photo in the middle.  Very heavy and also hard to get a decent mix on.  My 24x4 biamp and Kelsey mixers were much easier to mix on-even though they had a wimpier eq section.

I also hated the way the channels (on the studiomasters) were labeled backwards.  But I assume that was done so that when they were expanded (you simply mounted blocks of additional channels to the main console) they would be correctly numbered.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 05, 2016, 02:40:37 am
I also hated the way the channels (on the studiomasters) were labeled backwards.
That actually made sense to me.  Why do we (generally) start at the channels the furthest away from the master fadeers?

Obviously, they are just numbers and made no difference to the actual way we did things.


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 05, 2016, 08:44:26 am
That actually made sense to me.  Why do we (generally) start at the channels the furthest away from the master fadeers?

Obviously, they are just numbers and made no difference to the actual way we did things.


Steve.
I read from left to right.

And if you were to ask anybody to list the numbers 1-24, they would start on the left and go to the right.

Agreed it is just numbers-and we usually put tape over them anyway.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Stephen Kirby on February 05, 2016, 06:42:31 pm
I had a 12-4 and always wondered where I could find the expansion module off to the left.  It actually worked well and sounded pretty good.  Better than anything else I could afford at the time.  Also used for recording and it definitely sounded better than the 1/4" 8 track Fostex R-R I had at the time.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: David Buckley on February 05, 2016, 07:54:38 pm
RSD (and studiomaster, they were a bit confused) kit was the big step up from MM and HH.  It was the price point at which one got sweep EQ.  And where the lust moved to the TAC Scorpion.  Lots of very decent pub and small club type PAs had the whole RSD electronics chain.

The channels on the desk were numbered backwards; there was an the expansion port on the left that was under a plate held on by a couple of screws, and expansion carts were available as a four channel unit.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 05, 2016, 10:11:27 pm
RSD (and studiomaster, they were a bit confused) kit was the big step up from MM and HH.  It was the price point at which one got sweep EQ.  And where the lust moved to the TAC Scorpion.  Lots of very decent pub and small club type PAs had the whole RSD electronics chain.

The channels on the desk were numbered backwards; there was an the expansion port on the left that was under a plate held on by a couple of screws, and expansion carts were available as a four channel unit.
At least the rotary controls were not put on upside down-like the "professional" Kustom consoles I used to have.  I heard there were only 7 made, and at one time I had 3 of them.

There was a 5 band eq and the "0" position was at 6 oclock-not 12.

You still turned it to the right to boost-but the pointer was to the left.

It took some getting used to.

They also had a built in compressor on every channel and switchable high and low pass filters.

Pretty advanced at the time for a "club" type console.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 05, 2016, 10:30:58 pm
If you should every want to get ride of one of them-give me a buzz.

I would love to have one in my collection of vintage amplifiers
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: TrevorMilburn on February 06, 2016, 06:00:07 am
Recording Studio Design later became Studiomaster.  The model number of this amplifier is 800b which implies 800 watts which I also assume is 400w per side,  Each amplifier's heatsink has eight 2N3773 transistors so it is feasible.
I haven't found out much about them other than something about the company wanting to bring the high quality of studio recording to live sound.
RSD was set up by Phil Dudderidge, Paul Dobson and Graham Blyth, building custom PA systems for the likes of Roy Wood's Wizzard, Mungo Jerry and Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel amongst others, with custom-built mixing consoles derived from a Bill Kelsey original design. Phil & Graham went on to create Soundcraft and Phil is now Executive chairman of Focusrite plc but before all this he toured with Led Zeppelin, worked as sound guy for Implosion at the Roundhouse in London and also worked for Hiwatt. There are a couple of articles about him here:
http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/phil-dudderidge-qa/366249 (http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/phil-dudderidge-qa/366249)
http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/second-british-invasion-uk-technology-us-live-sound-market/374211 (http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/second-british-invasion-uk-technology-us-live-sound-market/374211)
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 06, 2016, 08:44:26 pm
Thanks for the extra info.


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 07, 2016, 05:00:18 am
If you should every want to get ride of one of them-give me a buzz.

I would love to have one in my collection of vintage amplifiers

I would love to have an Ampzilla from GAS, it was a Jim Bongiorno design.  One of most musical amps to come out of the late 70's IMHO.  Also an Amber model 70 is on my amp bucket list.

Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Mike Diack on February 07, 2016, 05:25:34 am
I'm old enough to remember having a mixture of 1/4" jacks and XLRs for speaker connections.
The use of XLR3Ms for speaker outputs on amps was pretty much par for the course "Down Under" in the
'70->'80s. XLR3Ms were also used on speaker cabs so speaker cables were XLR3F->XLR3F (using heavy
duty unscreened cable). Reasonably goof proof. The NL4 had yet to be invented and all the alternatives
(like jacks, binding posts etc) were far worse.
M
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 07, 2016, 08:44:55 am

If you should every want to get ride of one of them-give me a buzz.

I would love to have one in my collection of vintage amplifiers


You are very welcome to one but I think the postage cost from England would be ridiculous.


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 07, 2016, 08:51:34 am

The use of XLR3Ms for speaker outputs on amps was pretty much par for the course "Down Under" in the
'70->'80s.

I think our Martin B115 cabs had XLR connectors and I had a pair of Peavey speakers fro the 1990s which had XLR and 1-4" jacks.


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 07, 2016, 09:01:51 am
I would love to have an Ampzilla from GAS, it was a Jim Bongiorno design.  One of most musical amps to come out of the late 70's IMHO.  Also an Amber model 70 is on my amp bucket list.
I want one of those for my collection also.

The problem is they go for SERIOUS money (for me anyway)

I would be happy with a dead one.  About half of the amps in my collection don't work anyway-----

But they are great memories for people that visit me
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 07, 2016, 09:02:46 am

You are very welcome to one but I think the postage cost from England would be ridiculous.


Steve.
Let me look into that :)
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 07, 2016, 09:21:50 am

Let me look into that :)

OK.

Factor in that it's not just England.  I'm on the Isle of Wight which means an extra boat trip.

If you need it my post code is PO33 2SE.


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: John L Nobile on February 07, 2016, 03:49:47 pm
I think our Martin B115 cabs had XLR connectors and I had a pair of Peavey speakers fro the 1990s which had XLR and 1-4" jacks.


Steve.

My Martin 115's had XLR connectors as well. This was in Canada. When I started in the biz I thought 1/4" was normal. XLR was considered "Pro"
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 08, 2016, 08:26:12 am
My Martin 115's had XLR connectors as well. This was in Canada. When I started in the biz I thought 1/4" was normal. XLR was considered "Pro"
I seem to recall the Martin Phillishave setup had XLR (one way) on the bottoms, XLR (other way) on the shavers, and 1/4" on the horns. At the time, I figured a pretty foolproof setup. Then God made a better class of fool. Oh well.
Chris.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: John L Nobile on February 08, 2016, 10:37:43 am
I seem to recall the Martin Phillishave setup had XLR (one way) on the bottoms, XLR (other way) on the shavers, and 1/4" on the horns. At the time, I figured a pretty foolproof setup. Then God made a better class of fool. Oh well.
Chris.

That might be the way we were setup too. Definitely 1/4" on the highs but I can't remember whether the mids were opposite the bass.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 08, 2016, 12:33:08 pm
That might be the way we were setup too. Definitely 1/4" on the highs but I can't remember whether the mids were opposite the bass.
That system was quite popular in the outskirts of the city, for many years. i mixed on many of them. Always wired the same. Often had CS-800 for power. Gotta admit, dumping the MK-111 or MD something and putting in my Yammi always made me smile. Good, dependable rigs.
Chris
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Stephen Kirby on February 08, 2016, 01:12:12 pm
I would love to have an Ampzilla from GAS, it was a Jim Bongiorno design.  One of most musical amps to come out of the late 70's IMHO.  Also an Amber model 70 is on my amp bucket list.
Had a GAS preamp (Thalia I think) in the '70-80s until I got my ML7.  Good sounding and well made stuff.  I did bring home an Amber amp to try and it was a bit blurry.  That warm and fuzzy sound similar to late '70s Marantz.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Tom Burgess on February 08, 2016, 01:25:54 pm
I started with a 16 channel Studiomaster.

(https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/low-end-theory/117361d1239205182-studiomaster-16-4-2-opinions-studiomaster-16-4-2-1.jpg)

The company appears to be still in business: http://www.studiomaster.com/


Steve.
Hey, that's my old console!  Well, it looks just like it, anyway. :)  The Series One 16-4-2 was my first console of any consequence until it got stolen, I then got another and added the 4 channel expansion unit.  Oddly enough one of them had the L-R numbering, the other had R-L... can't remember which was which as that was WAY too many brain cells ago.  Seems like you could order a numbering kit for them, I always suspected that a previous owner had done exactly that.  Had lots of great gigs on those boards.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 08, 2016, 07:00:34 pm

You are very welcome to one but I think the postage cost from England would be ridiculous.


Steve.
You weren't kidding.

I just guessed at a weight of 50lbs and it looks like around $400 US from you.

That is a bit more than I am willing to part with.

Maybe the next time you come to the US you can bring it as carry on  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 08, 2016, 11:48:45 pm
Had a GAS preamp (Thalia I think) in the '70-80s until I got my ML7.  Good sounding and well made stuff.  I did bring home an Amber amp to try and it was a bit blurry.  That warm and fuzzy sound similar to late '70s Marantz.

Stephen, trying to remember what an amp sounded like almost 40 years ago is a bit of a challenge.  I am sure my perceptions and expectations have changed.

I doubt the Amber would be considered coherent by Ivan.  I do remember I heard it on a pair of Ohm Walsh speakers.   I also recall I auditioned an Earl Klugh and Supertramp's Crime of the Century.  The guy at the high end stereo shop was really nice to me considering I was barely old enough to drive.  He would wash my records and vacuum them for me and seemed impressed I would bring material I was familiar with to audition the new gear he would get in. 

Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 09, 2016, 02:43:46 am
You weren't kidding.

I just guessed at a weight of 50lbs and it looks like around $400 US from you.

That is a bit more than I am willing to part with.

Maybe the next time you come to the US you can bring it as carry on  ;D ;D ;D

I think your weight guess is about right. It seems to be about the same weight as a CS800 and I think they are 47lbs.

Is there another way such as sending it to Danley Europe?

We have factories in the US.  I will investigate the cost using our courier but I doubt that it will be much different.
 
I could strip out the insides and send an empty shell - but that wouldn't quite be the same as having the amp!


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 09, 2016, 07:38:20 am

I think your weight guess is about right. It seems to be about the same weight as a CS800 and I think they are 47lbs.

Is there another way such as sending it to Danley Europe?

We have factories in the US.  I will investigate the cost using our courier but I doubt that it will be much different.
 
I could strip out the insides and send an empty shell - but that wouldn't quite be the same as having the amp!


Steve.
I don't care if it works or not (about half of mine don't work)-it is for display only and conversation pieces.

Us old guys LOVE to look at the gear we grew up using and talk about it.

My office is one of the "must sees" during a visit (at least for older sound guys).

It is amazing how many people walk up and start to touch the various amps-turn the level controls and on/off switches.

Something about that just brings back memories.

But I also have a number of "unique" items-such as a Crest 8001, serial #1, a Crown prototype that never made it into production etc.

I like odd stuff like that.  And amps like the Studio Master that people (at least over here) are unaware that were made.

I have the standard Phase Linear collection (400-700-200) but am looking for some of the touring professional amps they made.  They are pretty rare
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 09, 2016, 07:44:52 am
I don't care if it works or not (about half of mine don't work)-it is for display only and conversation pieces.

Us old guys LOVE to look at the gear we grew up using and talk about it.
I'm just about in the old guy category but these amps are a bit before my time in live sound.  I go back as far as CS800s and the HH FET power amplifiers.
 
When I have a bit of spare time I will have a go at stripping out anything superfluous (mainly the transformer) and see what weight it ends up as.  If nothing else, it will give me spares for the other one if I try to get it working.

I haven't actually tried them yet.  I should do that first.  It would be silly to take apart a working one then use its parts to repair a non working one!


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 09, 2016, 12:28:59 pm


I haven't actually tried them yet.  I should do that first.  It would be silly to take apart a working one then use its parts to repair a non working one!


Steve.
Agreed

You could end up with twice as much work-if they actually need repair
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Stephen Kirby on February 09, 2016, 09:58:10 pm
Stephen, trying to remember what an amp sounded like almost 40 years ago is a bit of a challenge.  I am sure my perceptions and expectations have changed.

I doubt the Amber would be considered coherent by Ivan.  I do remember I heard it on a pair of Ohm Walsh speakers.   I also recall I auditioned an Earl Klugh and Supertramp's Crime of the Century.  The guy at the high end stereo shop was really nice to me considering I was barely old enough to drive.  He would wash my records and vacuum them for me and seemed impressed I would bring material I was familiar with to audition the new gear he would get in.
No doubt the Mobile Fidelity half speed mastered versions.   :D

I had this old SS Dyna stereo I bought when I moved out and had to trouble shoot with nothing but a schematic from the library and a VOM when it crapped out on me.  When I had more money and bought a pair of Magnepans and the GAS preamp I went looking for a new amp.  The high end dealer at the time would let you take things home.  The Amber didn't sound any better to me than the Dyna.  And as I said, reminded me of the Marantz I was selling at the camera/stereo shop I worked at.  Eventually I found a deal on an used ARC D75 someone had traded in.  When we hooked it up and turned it on the store owner and I looked at each other and he realized he was giving it away.  He grinned when I said I'd take it.  Never a/b'd it with a D76 but it sure sounded glorious.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 17, 2016, 02:17:54 am

I think your weight guess is about right. It seems to be about the same weight as a CS800 and I think they are 47lbs.

Is there another way such as sending it to Danley Europe?

We have factories in the US.  I will investigate the cost using our courier but I doubt that it will be much different.
 
I could strip out the insides and send an empty shell - but that wouldn't quite be the same as having the amp!


Steve.

Get the guys that left the triceratops in Godshill to move the amplifier.  Should be easy for them.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 17, 2016, 02:43:12 am
Get the guys that left the triceratops in Godshill to move the amplifier.  Should be easy for them.
Good idea.  The owner says it takes five men to move it a few feet so he has no idea how they got it into the road.

No one else here has a clue what we are referring to!!
 
EDIT:  Did you see it on the BBC news?
If anyone cares, in the village of Godshill on the Isle of Wight, a dinosaur based business has a full size fbreglass tricerotops on its land.  One night last week, someone (or more likely lots of people) moved it out into the road, blocking it in both directions.


Steve.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: duane massey on March 02, 2016, 11:13:19 pm
I noticed the Carlson cabinets in your photo, Ivan. Here's a pic from our set-up in the early 70's. Note the Carlson cabinet in the middle.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 03, 2016, 01:10:57 am
I noticed the Carlson cabinets in your photo, Ivan. Here's a pic from our set-up in the early 70's. Note the Carlson cabinet in the middle.
What PA amps did you have ?
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 03, 2016, 07:35:32 am
I noticed the Carlson cabinets in your photo, Ivan. Here's a pic from our set-up in the early 70's. Note the Carlson cabinet in the middle.
I know Gauss used to sell a single version of the Karlson.  The Maryland sound "full clams" were a quad setup, with JBL2205s or 2225s standard.

This same concept was carried over into "the tube" HF horn.  I have one in my collection.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: duane massey on March 03, 2016, 05:03:17 pm
What PA amps did you have ?
We built our own. Massive 100w amps. You can see one behind the drums with a few cables going to it. That's the PA. The speakers were on either side of the backline with large paging horns. Nothing was mic'd except the vocals. Each keyboard had it's own amp/speakers, and the organ used 2 Leslies. VERY old-school.....
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: duane massey on March 03, 2016, 05:09:07 pm
There are actually 4 Karlson's in the pic. Three have grills. These 4 were the bass rig. At one time we had a pair of the tubes. This was at a high school dance. You can see two of our lights in the back as well, made from industrial food containers (yep, square tin cans) with 300w R40 lamps.
Title: Re: Recording Studio Design power amplifiers from the 1970s
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 03, 2016, 05:31:12 pm
. You can see two of our lights in the back as well, made from industrial food containers (yep, square tin cans) with 300w R40 lamps.
My first lights were made from the gallon cans I got from the cafeteria.

I would cut the bottoms out of all but one and braze them together.  I put 3 together  to help narrow the beams.

I then mounted a porcelain socket in the bottom and put a 150 watt spot light in it.

For gels I used the colored report covers I got from the book store.  There was no place to buy gels from without a several hour drive.

The brackets were bent aluminum strips.

Hey- you gotta start somewhere :)