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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Road Test => Topic started by: Daniel Cash on March 16, 2011, 02:43:59 am

Title: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Daniel Cash on March 16, 2011, 02:43:59 am
A few months ago I received, a pair of the new Line6 XD-V70 wireless mics; one lapel system and one handheld system. At the time I was working full time at a church, and had extensive opportunities to give these guys a test up against some other comparable wireless systems. Let me break up my review into 3 parts; lapel transmitter system, handheld transmitter, and receiver.

The Lapel Transmitter System
In a church environment, lapel systems are used constantly, so I am familiar with other brand’s products. First off, the build quality of the Lne6 is the sturdiest body pack transmitter I have ever used.  Its made of all metal, the antenna is firmly built into the body, and it just feels like a rock.  Its about the same size as a sennheiser g2 transmitter, with a little better build quality.

The unfortunate downfall of this system is the included lapel mic.  The lapel is a proprietary cardioid condenser mic and suffers terribly from mechanical noise from the cable. When held still it sound fine, but the booms and other noise making it up the cable was bad even with a high pass filter and significant eq applied.  For the majority of my time using this mic, I switched over to a WL93, which sounded a lot better.

Similar products I have used included Sennheiser G2 and Shure  PGX and SLX lapel systems. I found the transmitter to be superior quality and the mic element to be inferior quality to these products.

The Handheld system.
The handheld transmitter, comes with 7 different built in EQ curves, to simulate the frequency response to other popular mics, such as the OM5, SM58, EV N/D767, etc. The problem with this feature, is that you have to change the settings on handheld transmitter, and thus once an artist is using the mic, its difficult to test out other settings. This really seems like a major oversight by Line6, but I assume it was to could keep the menu system on the receivers standardized for all systems. Thus, I didn’t play around too much with these options, and simply went with the “Line 6 optimized model”.  Yet, I was not disappointed. In my opinion it sounded fantastic.

I used this mic through the Christmas season at the church on some very talented female soloists, and this really is my new favorite sounding wireless handheld. It sounded more open and transparent than both my Sennehiser G2 systems and the Shure PGX handheld systems.  Another thing I noticed was a complete lack of compounding, which I always bother by, when using a shure PGX system.

The build quality of the Line6 handheld feels a lot like the Shure mic; mostly plastic, but solid quality. I personally didn’t like the feel of the buttons, but they are similar to what you find on Shure wireless products.

Outside of the church setting, I had the chance to use this mic with a very loud 80’s cover band. The lead singer, owns his own Shure SLX system with a beta 87a head, and is very picky about his sound… so I was hesitant to even try the Line6 mic with him. However on the second night of a weekend stint, we put the Line6 through its paces. Right away, I liked it… it sounded just as good as his B87a, and worked well with his voice. We found the gain before feedback to be very comparable to the b87a and had a great night using the Line6.  For a mic costing approximately half that of the Shure SLX system, the Line6 gives it a run for the money.

The Receiver
Each receiver has an RF in and RF out, and the system includes BNC cables to daisy chain the revivers together. This is the first the first time I have seen this on a product at this price point, and worked great in my usage.

Also included with the receivers is rack mount kit, which allows you to put 2 receivers side by side in one rack space. I did not rack mount them during my test, so I can’t comment on the quality of this accessory… but either way, another nice feature.

On the receiver the menu system is easy and intuitive with a push-dial button running the navigation.  On the main display of the receiver there is a timer countdown for estimated battery life remaining.  Starting with a fresh pair of AA procels the display would estimate 8 hours reaming. I found this to be very close to accurate.

Overall the build quality and design of the receiver is fantastic.  The all metal casing, the buttons, and antenna all a very solid design that I readily endorse as road worthy.

The RF performance was great. At the church we have 3 wireless networks running (public, staff, and production) all in the 2.4ghz range near the stage, so I had my concerns about adding the Line6 systems into this environment. However, throughout this test I never experienced a single dropout. The receivers were located about 75 ft from the stage, and I didn’t even have them setup correctly at first; (you are supposed to use the include BNC terminator on the antennae out jacks) and I didn’t install them till about 3 weeks into the road test.)

Conclusion
I fully recommend giving these mics a look and listen, if you are in the market. In my opinion, the features and build quality represent an excellent value.

Please let me know if you have any questions about features I might have overlooked or omitted.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjćr on March 16, 2011, 07:37:29 am
The lead singer, owns his own Shure SLX system

, and is very picky about his sound

How, on God's green Earth, do these two statements fit together?  :o

Anyway:

For a mic costing approximately half that of the Shure SLX system, the Line6 gives it a run for the money.

For a system costing half of an SLX, it beats the living crap out of it. SLX is unusable in my opinion, and I'm forced to work with SLX systems on a regular basis.

In my opinion the XD-V70 gives the UR4-system a run for it's money.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Don Boomer on March 16, 2011, 01:57:10 pm
Hey Daniel

If you singer really loves his 87 capsule you should try just screwing it on to the V70. 
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Mac Kerr on March 16, 2011, 05:06:27 pm
Hey Daniel

If you singer really loves his 87 capsule you should try just screwing it on to the V70.

Don, if you are going to post in topics about products you are involved with, please create a sig that shows your affiliation.

Mac
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Daniel Cash on March 16, 2011, 05:15:35 pm
Hey Daniel

If you singer really loves his 87 capsule you should try just screwing it on to the V70.

Honestly, we both felt that the Line6 capsule compared favorably, and the additional cost of a Shure capsule wouldst be necessary. (That is, if he was in the market to buy a new wireless system.)


However, if we were to try this, what "modeling" setting would you use on the hand-held transmitter?  Is the "Line 6 optimized model" a flat EQ?
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Michael Gazdziak on March 17, 2011, 01:49:30 am
However, if we were to try this, what "modeling" setting would you use on the hand-held transmitter?  Is the "Line 6 optimized model" a flat EQ?

It seems like the handheld transmitter can tell if you are using the Line6 capsule, or a third party capsule. When I put a 58 head on a handheld, the modeling was disabled.


btw Don, we haven't had the opportunity to take the Line6 wireless out on a gig yet, but Captain Dick walked down the street with a handheld and was impressed by the wireless range, and the features of these units.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Craig Leerman on March 17, 2011, 02:29:28 am
Is the "Line 6 optimized model" a flat EQ?


From their website

Quote
XD-V70 includes a seventh microphone model, L6-DC7. Nicknamed the “super” model, this original mic model combines the sought-after sparkle of top condenser mics, the ruggedness and high dynamic range of dynamic mics, and plenty of responsiveness to cut through the mix.

So, no, its not flat, but they took what they thought was some of the "best" features of other mics and combined them into one.

Craig
Title: Original Review reposted from the old LAB forums (with pics)
Post by: Craig Leerman on March 17, 2011, 02:32:06 am
Hi All,

Don Boomer from Line 6 was kind enough to send a few wireless units to the Road Test. I received a pair of handheld mics, and a pair of lavalier mics.

First, a bit about the systems. They work on the 2.4GHz band, so they can be used all over the world. The systems have 12 channels to pick from, but in some instances, more than 12 can be used in the same building. (more on that later)

Don told me that they are looking at using some different frequency ranges so more than 12 systems can be used on the same stage.

The mics have a stated 300 feet / 100 meter range. I did an experiment with a lav unit and found it will transmit a lot farther than that, but for my uses, a few hundred feet is more than enough.

These use 24 bit digital conversion , so there is no companding, transmit 10Hz-20kHz, and the dynamic range is stated as 115dB.

There are also some remote antenna options available from Line 6.

The mics come well packed in a box with foam. Sorry about the pics, they are from my phone.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/soundguyCraig/line%206/Line6boxinside.jpg

Inside the box are the transmitter in case, the receiver, 2 antennas, the power supply, the rack mounting hardware, a plastic joiner bar (for hooking up 2 units in 1 rack space), remote antenna jacks for the rack panel, and the instructions.

A quick bit about the instructions. There are only a FEW pages to read! Very simple units to use.

Lets start with the receiver. The unit is well built with a solid felling metal body. The front has a power switch, a button for setup, and a button to exit the setup screen. There is a select knob that you can turn and access the various options. The center of the front has a screen that shows what channel you are on, and the transmitter name, antenna diversity strength, as well as the menus.,

3 bar graphs are on the left side, one for audio, one for battery power, and one for RF.There is also a MUTE light.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/soundguyCraig/line%206/Line6rackmount.jpg

The picture shows the 2 rack ears for mounting as single unit.

The rear of the receiver has 2 antenna inputs, 2 antenna OUTPUTS for loopthrough, XLR balanced and 1/4" unbalanced outputs and the DC power jack for the wall wart.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/soundguyCraig/line%206/Line6receiverrear.jpg

The slots on the tops and sides of the unit allows you to use the plastic joiner bar and couple the units together. 2 units can fit in 1 rack space, and they can also be joined top to bottom.

The mics come in a nice padded case. They would offer good protection if you store the mics in a rack drawer or mic box.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/soundguyCraig/line%206/Line6miccase.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/soundguyCraig/line%206/Line6miccaseinside.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/soundguyCraig/line%206/Line6lavcase.jpg

The handheld mic is well build and feels good in my hand. It comes with a nice mic clip. The mic head can be removed and any Shure style head can be screwed on, (including the ones from Heil). The mic uses 2 AA batteries, and has a nice secure battery compartment in the base. On the side of the mic there is a small screen that can display the mic name, and chan number. Recessed mute (also power) and select switches are under the screen. There is a lock button inside the mic by the battery compartment that will lock out the menus as well as the power switch. A great feature as I hate people flipping the power and mute switches on wireless after I hand it to them.

The handheld (and the lav) can run in 2 power modes. The lo mode helps conserve battery life, and can help when using multiple systems near each other (more on that later)

The handheld mic features MIC MODELING technology. The mics are based on an SM58, Beta58, Senn E835, AT4100, Audix 0M5, and one called the L6 which they based on a few favorite features of different mics.

The lav transmitter is built like a tank! It uses the same TA4F connector that Shure uses on its lav systems. The body has a screen, select and value buttons. Pressing both buttons acts as the lock. On the end of the transmitter are a power switch and mute button, as well as battery and power lights.

The belt clip can be loosened and turned in any direction for ease of mounting. This is a nice feature! Also, the battery compartment has a great secure lock.

The lav mic has a sturdy tie clip and a small windscreen.

First impressions: The receivers are well built and I like the fact that the company designed them so you don't have to buy additional parts to mount them together. I also love the antenna looping feature.

The handheld mic has a great battery compartment. The lav transmitter is the most rugged belt pack I have ever seen, and I love the lockout feature on both mics.

Now the fun part! I tested the gear at my shop and had it up and running in no time. The units are very easy to program.

The handheld sounds good and the mic modeling definitely changes the sound, but not having most of the models of mics at my disposal, I cannot say one way or another if they all sound like the models they were based on. Handling noise is minimal, and the sound quality is excellent.

The beltpack was just as easy to program and I noticed that when you turned the pack on or off there were no thumps through the system.

The lav microphone that is included in the set is not in the same league as the rest of the components. Its an OK mic, but not one I would pick on its own. Like many tiny lav mics, it has handling noise, but this mic seems to have more than I would like.

No problem, as I already have a large supply of lav mics with TA4s, so I just swapped the mic out and used some Shures to test the lav transmitter. With the new mics, audio quality was excellent.

I took the mics out to a few gigs. The first was a small speech gig outdoors with a local politician. I used a handheld on her, and used one as the podium mic. With the receivers at FOH, I turned the transmitters on HI Power and had no problems.

The next gig was a standard corporate general session with breakouts. I used the mics in the breakout rooms that were next to each other. Here is where these mics shine. In one room I had a lav on LO power, and the receiver placed next to stage right on chan 1. In the NEXT ROOM, I set up a lav on LO power with the receiver placed stage left (furthest point away from the receiver next door) and also placed that on CHAN 1.

They both worked! With only about 100' and an airwall between the receivers, I could have used them both on the same channel if I wanted to. So, yes, there are only 12 channels available, but in some situations like on a second festival stage a few hundred feet away, or breakout rooms, you can use more than 12 units on the gig if you put the transmitters on LO power.

Pros:
* Easy To Use
* Receivers very sturdy and can be joined together
* Antenna Loop Through feature
* Rack mounting hardware included
* Mic modeling can come in handy
* Lav Transmitter built like a tank!
* Uses TA4 connectors for lavs

Cons:
* On one stage, no more than 12 units an be used
* Lavalier mic has handling noise
* I dislike wall warts

Overall, I think these mics are a winner. Even though I hate wall warts, the ones included are small and lightweight. These mics have made my "BUY LIST"!

Craig


To read the replies to the above post on the archived forum, click this link

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/586054/47/#msg_586054
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Daniel Cash on March 17, 2011, 01:48:03 pm
It seems like the handheld transmitter can tell if you are using the Line6 capsule, or a third party capsule. When I put a 58 head on a handheld, the modeling was disabled.


That actually makes sense. I should have given it a try at the time, when I had the 2 wireless systems side by side, but didn't even realize that it was a feature.

One other question I have, for Line6... I was at a gig where a guitarist pulled out a Line6 G30 wireless system, and It only has 6 user selectable channels. Are those compatible with the V70 systems?  For example if the G30 system is set to channel 1, can the V70 system use the remaining 11 channels? 
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Don Boomer on March 18, 2011, 04:52:52 pm
There are 12 user channels available for simultaneous use by the Line 6 2.4G digital systems.  So if you use an XD-V30 on channel one then yes you can use 11 XD-V70's on the others.  You can also mix in the Relay instrument systems as well ... for a total of twelve.

Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Simon Ryder on April 05, 2011, 06:58:49 am
There are 12 user channels available for simultaneous use by the Line 6 2.4G digital systems.  So if you use an XD-V30 on channel one then yes you can use 11 XD-V70's on the others.  You can also mix in the Relay instrument systems as well ... for a total of twelve.

Hi Don,

Will the handset power Shure condensor apsules such as the KSM9?
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Guy Morris on April 06, 2011, 07:37:45 am
Has anyone used the headset version yet? I'm looking for a new system set of 12  but if the headset has the same noise issue as the Lav then I would need to look at another brand of mic capsule to connect.(recommendations anyone?) I was thinking of having six of the Hand Held mics and also buying 12 beltpacks and headsets just for theater use but in the UK dealers only seem to sell the complete system of one type or the other however I notice the Line 6 website offers them as accessories. Any UK dealers who sell to specific order?

Guy
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Don Boomer on April 12, 2011, 01:34:02 pm
Hi Don,

Will the handset power Shure condensor apsules such as the KSM9?

No ... but it will power 86 & 87 capsules.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Tamas Tako on April 12, 2011, 04:42:48 pm
No ... but it will power 86 & 87 capsules.

Hi Don,

I had the possibility to check out one XD-V70 set.
Here are my toughts:
- The original capsule sounds quite good, however I can overload the Handheld Transmitter when shout very loud into the mic. (ca 2 dB lower gain would fix it)
- The Beta 87 Shure screw on capsule has much lower signal, so the SNR will be much worser with using them. (again, the gain structure)
- The KSM 9 Shure srew on capsule is not always having perfect contact. and again has even less signal than the Beta 87.
- the whole unit has quite low output level which lead to an increased Gain on the following mic preamp/ mixing console / active splitter etc. That causes higher level input noise from these units, so having more level out of the unit would lover the overall noise, and increase the SNR!

I can check the serial nr of the unit, for your reference, becouse I think this is at least oen year old, and so there could be some update since then - wich could correct all these small "problems".

i am curious, if others also have these tougths?

Thanks,

Tamas Tako
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Luis Pinzón Arroyo on May 21, 2011, 11:19:19 pm
Is there a way to run receiver's output at line level?
And change emitter's mic input sensibility?

Thank's.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Don Boomer on May 27, 2011, 02:49:51 pm
Is there a way to run receiver's output at line level?
And change emitter's mic input sensibility?

Thank's.

No ... the output is mic level only.  The design goal was to simply replace the "wire" that connected a mic to the mixer so the output follows the sensitivity of the mic model you select.  If you pick a hotter model like "b58" you'll get more output than if you select the Audix based model.

The "L6" model is the hottest of all the models available btw.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Chuck Simon on June 01, 2011, 11:37:01 am
I just tested the Heil RC-35 capsule with my new V70 in the shop.  I have to say, with my voice, so far, I prefer the Line 6 capsule!   It is the best my mediocre voice has ever sounded!  They have really outdone themselves with this one!  Now with a real singer out there in the real world it will probably be a different story and I can't wait to find out.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Langston Holland on June 09, 2011, 12:18:21 pm
After keeping the amazing Line 6 wireless demo about 3 months longer than I'd promised, I've finally had the time to use and measure it and - amazingly - finally send it back to Craig who's been way too gracious to me.

Conclusion:

You'd be a fool not to check this system out if you're looking for wireless anywhere near its price range. This type of wireless system or something similar to it is the future. Occupy one frequency region that already has approval for use over most of the civilized world due to wifi while using data headers to differentiate between audio streams seems like the "duh" moment of what to do about diminishing white spaces. Still, this digital thing is in its infancy and not without hiccups, but if you place the receiver carefully it's quite reliable. The older school stuff seems more robust in avoiding dropouts in my experience, but it doesn't sound as good and costs more, a lot more if you're into quality.

My favorite features are (1) sound quality, (2) build quality - not Lectrosonics or the high end Shure, Sennheiser, etc., but a real step up from most of the stuff out there, (3) Shure capsule compatibility on the handheld and Shure standard TA4F connector on the beltpack, and (4) cost.

Measurements and Comments:

The (3) wireless systems I have access to are compared to the Line 6 XD-V70, we'll go from worst to best from a sound and measurement perspective. The XD-V70 is covered last. :) In each case I took the easy way out and made measurements on the beltpacks since they have wired inputs. It is assumed that the transmitter technology employed in the handhelds is the same.

Shure ULX-Pro:

This has been a tried and true piece in my rental inventory for 6 years or so. Beat, dropped and repaired once by Shure's marvelous service dept. I trust it to work and it seems quieter in use than the better sounding UHF-R, probably due to the old school companding and high input level compression that the UHF-R seems to make much less use of in the first case and eliminates in the second. Looking forward to corrections on my guesses, but the measurements point in this direction.

In each case when measuring at various input levels, I started with -50dBu and increased levels in 10dB steps through 0dBu (.775v) if the unit could handle that much level before clipping. If the unit could handle more than 0dBu, I added one more trace at the higher level. In the case of the ULX-Pro, you'll notice that Shure has a compressor that not only lowers the output up to 4dB, but reduces its bandwidth while doing so. The lower traces are the higher input levels with the increasing compression. You never notice this in use because folks are screaming at these levels and it's usually ugly anyway. Not a very flat spectrum, but fine for rock 'n roll and general use.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/ShureULX-Pro(PinkNoise).png)

Now you'll note what I've come to understand as a tell-tale sign of classic wireless companding - that is you can't measure the thing with a swept sine (black trace). This type of system is reasonably expecting a fairly broadband signal and if you use a slow sine sweep (or worse, one frequency at a time via a stepped sine measurement), you'll find out in a hurry that you should NOT use such systems with percussive instruments with a lot of LF energy. Then again, you can get a who-knows-what-it's-gonna-sound-like LF expander effect with these things on a drum kit if you want. :) Ever used a ULX-Pro beltpack on a picked acoustic guitar and been amazed at the "dynamics"? Now you know why. Finally, distortion measurements are only practical on systems that can tolerate swept (or even better - stepped) sine stimuli.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/ShureULX-Pro(PNvsSS).png)

Shure UHF-R:

This has been a tried and true piece in my rental inventory for 4 years or so. Also treated roughly at times, but not nearly so much given the upper scale rentals. It has proved trustworthy after an initial spate of blanking transmitter LED screens that were fixed under warranty. These things sound much better than the ULX-Pro, are built much nicer and priced accordingly.

This unit does much better with swept sines, but still has some companding going on thus still has a preference for pink noise measurements. Compression at higher input levels is eliminated - what you put in is what you get out - yea.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/ShureUHF-R(PinkNoise).png)

Swept sine vs pink noise. Yes, Ethel, you can use this on percussive instruments without much issue.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/ShureUHF-R(PNvsSS).png)

Now that we have a unit that can tolerate sine waves, we can have a look at distortion at the highest input levels. The following uses a fairly long stepped sine stimulus.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/ShureUHF-R(SteppedSineTHD).png)

And now the main reason I dropped over 2 grand on the CLIO measurement system, a very short term gated stepped measurement - only 6.5ms down to 300Hz or so where the wavelengths get long enough that you have to open the "meter on time" enough to get at least a couple of sine periods in to make a reliable distortion measurement. These very short term sine bursts allow peak measurements of loudspeakers and amps without melting things. In the case of wireless measurements, it'll reveal which systems can pretend to be hardwired and which cannot - not that you'll ever find any real music with 6.5ms events. You _might_ find high Q issues with loudspeakers that would have been missed with a log sweep or noise based stimulus.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/ShureUHF-R(GatedSineTHD).png)

Lectrosonics TM400:

Ever driven or just closed the door on a Mercedes Benz and thought how different really well made stuff is? That's what my Lectrosonics TM400 wireless measurement system feels like. It also works extremely well plugged into a Neumann KMS105, which like most Neumann capacitor mics, is no piece of cake to power correctly.

Very little or no compression going on. No need for pink noise measurements with this unit.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/LectrosonicsTM400SmartNROFF(SweptSine).png)

Stepped sine distortion measurement.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/LectrosonicsTM400SmartNROFF(SteppedSineTHD).png)

Interestingly, some of the very short 6.5ms sine bursts poked their heads out of the magnitude trace as you can see here in black. Again, 6.5ms ain't nature, but the XD-V70 can handle it and does an amazing impression of a mic cable as you'll soon see.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/LectrosonicsTM400SmartNROFF(GatedSine).png)

Line 6 XD-V70:

This unit amazes, but has to be used with a bit more care to get dropout-free and clean HF performance. On the first issue, you need to keep the receiver on stage near the transmitter in my experience. On the second issue, I found by accident that of the (12) "frequencies" the unit said were available, channels 2 and 12 showed a fair amount of HF noise in the measurement traces that I initially thought was an issue with my test setup. I have no idea at this point if it's audible. Changing channels to anything but 2 or 12 fixed it. My Apple router was about 10' away and happens to use channel 2 in its transmission, but I have no idea if this has anything to do with it or not - this is new territory for me. I should have turned the router off to find out, but only thought of this just now. :)

There are (3) "environment" modes you can choose with this unit; OFF, NORM, and TALK. With OFF, it acts like a wire and neither companding or compression happen. With NORM, companding and compression don't happen, but expansion with increasing LF extension happen with increasing levels. Must be an attempt at gating noise at low levels. You can also yell and you get the voice of God effect. TALK mode is more of the same. You'll notice that the expansion circuit doesn't like swept sine measurements - again reasonable given the broadband signal expected. Personally, OFF is "norm" for me. :)

Environment OFF swept sine. Wireless bass and guitar users need not apply elsewhere.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/Line6EnvironOFF(SweptSine).png)

Environment OFF gated stepped sine.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/Line6EnvironOFF(GatedSine).png)

Environment NORM and TALK swept sine (expander not happy).

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/Line6EnvironNORMandTALK(SweptSine).png)

Environment NORM pink noise at various input levels.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/Line6EnvironNORM(PinkNoise).png)

Environment TALK pink noise at various input levels.

(http://soundscapesweb.com/files/PSW/WirelessTests/Line6EnvironTALK(PinkNoise).png)

We sure torture ourselves in the quest to replace a $25 mic cable.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 11, 2011, 11:42:44 am
Quote
We sure torture ourselves in the quest to replace a $25 mic cable.

Performers and clients torture us in the quest to replace a mic cable.  I can't count the number of times in the last 25 years I've tried to talk folks out of wireless anything after they've complained about the noise, drop outs, companding effects, etc.  They won't give it up because 'they do it on TV every day!"  Well, if a client wants those results they need to pony up the money for that quality of gear and the level of RF knowledge required to get multiple units to work in their show environment... which they frequently do not want to do.  They can't understand that their $200 Samson isn't as good as my $700 Sennheisers, which aren't as good as Senny's 3000 or 5000 series or the Lectrosonics digital hybrid series or the Shure UHF-R.

Real gear costs real money.  Getting clients to pay for the performance they desire is much more difficult than getting that performance level.

Thanks for the review, Langston.  Also, your review of the PSM900 over at www.soundforums.net is spot on, too.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Ryan O John on August 20, 2012, 02:41:28 am
I actually had this out on tour with me and also a UHF-R... Both with Heil RC35 capsules, this was the 'spare.'  Reason being, neither my monitor guy nor I could hear anything strange, in fact we both loved it, but our singer was hearing a delay in his IEM when using this system versus the UHF-r.  Maybe he's crazy, but it didn't matter if it was analog monitors, a 5d, or SD7, he consistently could hear what he could only describe as an 'almost comb filtery type sound'
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Gustaf Kempe on August 20, 2012, 05:19:42 am
Anyone using this system to have a measurment mic wireless? Like the letrosonics but 1/3 of the price. Thinking about getting one
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Jeremy Johnston on August 21, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
I have to second Gustaf's question - it might not be a Lectrosonics piece, but for a tighter budget wireless system? Is the range sufficient?

Does it have decreasing performance with distance?

Does wifi traffic mess with it in real use?

Jeremy

Anyone using this system to have a measurment mic wireless? Like the letrosonics but 1/3 of the price. Thinking about getting one
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on August 21, 2012, 02:05:46 pm
I actually had this out on tour with me and also a UHF-R... Both with Heil RC35 capsules, this was the 'spare.'  Reason being, neither my monitor guy nor I could hear anything strange, in fact we both loved it, but our singer was hearing a delay in his IEM when using this system versus the UHF-r.  Maybe he's crazy, but it didn't matter if it was analog monitors, a 5d, or SD7, he consistently could hear what he could only describe as an 'almost comb filtery type sound'
UHF-R is an analog system, so other than some phase rotation through the circuitry, there is no latency.  The XD-V is a digital mic, and does have latency.  This is the same as in consoles - digital consoles have processing latency, analog ones don't.

IEM users are the most sensitive to this, and it manifests itself in exactly the way you mention - a perception of comb filtering between the bone conduction in your singer's head and the delayed signal from the mic, board, and any other digital devices in the chain.  IEMs make this worse, as the isolating function (just like plugging your ears with your fingers) makes the sound through your head louder.

FYI, the RF2 codec on the XD-V series has lowered latency from about 4ms to around 2ms, as well as greatly reduced interaction with WiFi (at some cost of signal resiliance).  If you have a V70 or V30, you will need to do a software update to get this.  V75s and the rest of the newer series come with the correct software, and RF1/RF2 is a software selection on the devices.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on August 21, 2012, 02:13:53 pm
I have to second Gustaf's question - it might not be a Lectrosonics piece, but for a tighter budget wireless system? Is the range sufficient?

Does it have decreasing performance with distance?

Does wifi traffic mess with it in real use?

Jeremy
I'm told there are users who have used these for measurement. 

Is the range sufficient for what?  I own 4 channels, and I get about the same performance that I do with regular UHF gear.  Usual techniques of directional antennas and receiver placement apply.

Does it have decreasing performance with distance?  If you mean does the frequency response change over distance - no.  Digital is digital.  Does general RF performance fall off over distance, leading to eventual signal reliability issues?  Absolutely, just like Lectrosonics and everyone else.

Re Wifi:
I've posted extensively about this somewhere on the forum.  With the older RF1 codec, the mics DID significantly impact Wifi, but generally not the other way around.  With RF2, they've changed the transmit frequencies (and the number of simultaneous frequencies), and the frst 5 Line6 channels (which are not the same frequencies as WiFi channels of the same number) don't seem to interfere with WiFi.  The other 9 channels may interfere with some of the WiFi channels, though you're not likely using all the WiFi channels anyway, so this can easily be worked around.

I've found RF2 to be a significant improvement, and using good wireless practices they are as reliable as conventional UHF.  That, the fact that the Feds won't take them away from me, and their low cost for good quality have made me pretty happy.


Edit - here's one of the threads I mentioned:
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,136098.0.html
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Doug Fowler on August 22, 2012, 12:53:40 am
Anyone using this system to have a measurment mic wireless? Like the letrosonics but 1/3 of the price. Thinking about getting one

I am, it works well. I use Countryman inline phantom power supplies, but your mic must be able to operate on 18v to do this. This, and a Shure TA4F belt pack cable gets it done.

No wifi problems, but when I'm measuring the venue is not filled with people.

It's not as slick as the Lectrosonics solution but it works well.
Title: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Sam Feine on August 22, 2012, 09:14:26 am
I am, it works well. I use Countryman inline phantom power supplies, but your mic must be able to operate on 18v to do this. This, and a Shure TA4F belt pack cable gets it done.

No wifi problems, but when I'm measuring the venue is not filled with people.

It's not as slick as the Lectrosonics solution but it works well.

The only thing that the line 6 might not be good at is impulse or latency testing as it has a small (but measurable) delay between when sound hits the capsule and when it gets reproduced at the output. I think that is 4ms for wireless version 1 and 2ms for version 2.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on August 22, 2012, 09:26:59 am
The only thing that the line 6 might not be good at is impulse or latency testing as it has a small (but measurable) delay between when sound hits the capsule and when it gets reproduced at the output. I think that is 4ms for wireless version 1 and 2ms for version 2.
In every measurement scenario I can think of, this latency is irrelevant, as it is compensated for in software.  All dual FFT systems are relative to a test signal, and there's lots of latency in the air between the speakers and the mic. The extra couple of ms of the mic just gets added on to the compensation.

Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Mac Kerr on August 22, 2012, 11:56:21 am
The only thing that the line 6 might not be good at is impulse or latency testing as it has a small (but measurable) delay between when sound hits the capsule and when it gets reproduced at the output. I think that is 4ms for wireless version 1 and 2ms for version 2.

To expand on what TJ said, when you are doing delay measurements you are comparing 2 different sources. The latency is the same for both sources, so the offset between them is not effected by the signal path latency.

Mac
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Gary Adrian on September 13, 2012, 08:34:21 am

Conclusion
I fully recommend giving these mics a look and listen, if you are in the market. In my opinion, the features and build quality represent an excellent value.

Please let me know if you have any questions about features I might have overlooked or omitted.
[/quote]

Anyone having any comment on short battery life?  Mine seem to drain batteries much faster than my UHF-R's.  One other thing I found was don't put your laptop near the receivers, as it can cause dropouts, if your Wi-Fi is on.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on September 13, 2012, 08:59:19 am
Conclusion
I fully recommend giving these mics a look and listen, if you are in the market. In my opinion, the features and build quality represent an excellent value.

Please let me know if you have any questions about features I might have overlooked or omitted.


Anyone having any comment on short battery life?  Mine seem to drain batteries much faster than my UHF-R's.  One other thing I found was don't put your laptop near the receivers, as it can cause dropouts, if your Wi-Fi is on.
I don't have any UHFRs, but I agree that Line6's estimate of 8 hours is a little generous.  I've had trouble with the battery meter reading ghost voltage or surface charge such that when you first turn the mic on, the runtime indicates 3 hours, but quickly falls to 2 hours.  It does seem to be more accurate on the low end of the scale - if it says you have 20 minutes left, you probably do.  Usual best practice guidelines apply of always using new batteries at the beginning of the gig.  That being said, I did a week long conference with 5 IEM packs and 3 channels of Line6 wireless on half a box of batteries.

For the wi-fi interference - are you using RF2?  That will help, but it's not remotely surprising that a transmitter in the same band - your laptop - inches from a receiver will cause interference.  This isn't a flaw in the product, but a result of physics.  Remote antennas and/or good receiver placement are always critical.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Luke Geis on February 01, 2013, 12:48:07 am
I own 1 such handheld XD-V70 setup and am glad to say it's money well spent. It is a product that gets the job done very well at a price just about anyone can afford. There are caveats, but the positives outweigh the cons. I don't have the version two of this product and have only used it with the included capsule. The results have been stellar. I think it sounds better than a normal wireless mic system ( in the same class ) and is as close to a wire as you can get ( for the money ) in a wireless product. I have never once experienced a dropout and it's L6 " super model " is very nice sounding. I only have one complaint. It does seem to exhibit more handling noise than the higher end mics. maybe I'm picky, but I hate it when I can here the handling noise. I highly suggest this mic series to anyone looking for an affordable wireless system. It may be Line 6, but they are on to something with this one.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Luke Geis on March 07, 2014, 07:36:01 pm
Although this thread has been dead for a bit, I figured I would bring to light and update in things.

This is definitely a nice sounding and perfectly capable system. It does have some handling noise and is very stable; most of the time.......... I have found it's weak link I believe? Outside of the tricky update process if you plan on going to the RF2 mode with the older systems, it is well sorted and I would still recommend them.

So I have found that it does not like having routers, access points and other such wireless network units near it that work in the 2.4ghz band! Until recently I have only used the Line 6 XD series mics with my analog gear that usually goes out on lower end gigs. I recently had a gig where a digital desk was utilized and I had it networked to be controlled by my I-Pad and other puters on the network. Well the router I used was a 2.4ghz access point and I had never had issues with things until this particular day. I set up the wireless and immediately realized that my network was UBER slow. Not only that but no matter what channel I picked on the wireless mics ( even if they showed to be clean ) I would get dropouts. It had me wondering? I had not updated my older XD unit, but had been running both in RF1. I tried RF2 on the one that could run that way with no improvement. I know that the AP was set for channel 11, but it didn't matter what channel the wireless was set for, there was issues. Luckily that day was a soft set! I performed a couple tests and quickly figured things out. As soon as I turned off the AP the wireless was solid and worked flawlessly! If I left the AP on and used the network turning off the wireless mic receiver the network was solid, fast and reliable! Easy enough, the two don't mix. I went home that night and performed the available updates on the old wireless units so that they were all on the same page and then switched out my 2.4ghz AP for a dual band router. The next day I set everything up ( running the network in the 5ghz band ) and of course there is no longer any issues with either anymore!

So what I learned is that although the Line 6 XD system is fine most of the time, when it is in close proximity to wireless AP's and Router's in the 2.4ghz band, it is not good for either one. They will cause interference between each other and make both useless. It seems the XD doesn't bother wireless that is more distant, but there was evident usage in the common wireless ranges when doing an RF scan. The more common 6 and 11 bands showed high usage. It is not bothered by nor does it bother anything in the 5ghz band even when in very close proximity. So if your having a tough time with your Line 6 XD and or your wireless network seems slow when an XD is around, it's probably the two interacting.
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Martin Morris on March 16, 2015, 06:18:30 pm
Hey Daniel

If you singer really loves his 87 capsule you should try just screwing it on to the V70.

Hi Don

does the handheld from a XD-V35 system work with a XD-V75 receiver?

I'm aware that the XD-V75 has more channels.

Cheers
Martin
Title: Re: Line6 XD-V70 wireless mic road test
Post by: Luke Geis on March 16, 2015, 08:05:32 pm
From my understanding, yes it will work. The only difference will be he total number of channels to pick from. Obviously less from the V35 unit.