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Title: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Tom Young on May 18, 2009, 10:08:26 pm
I just returned from Day-1 of the Demo/gear fest that David Nickerson spearheaded. Unfortunately I coud not stay for Day-2.

It far surpassed what I imagined it would be. Perhaps 50 folks were there today as well as a good number of manufacturers, some of whom travelled far to participate in this. More folks due tomorrow.

Everyone was of the "serious, passionate about live audio" ilk and (of course) many or all were LABsters.

The presentations were all VERY good. Today ended with Bill Hanley's recollections of starting out in the PA business and leading up to doing sound for Woodstock (the real one). His anecdotes were fascinating and inspiring. As it turns out, his motivations were no different than mine and everyone I know/respect in this business (he felt strongly that live sound could be improved and he did something about this). He just started doing it before we all did and managed to be involved in some of the greatest early (historical) events .... as well as many since.

The venue and its staff were all great. The acoustics of the conference room were far above average. The spirit of this entire endeavor was A+.

I suspect that this took considerable effort and planning on David's part and I personally want to thank him for doing all that it took to pull this off so well. For a long time I have envied what certain geographical areas across the US do as far as audio-related meetings, demos and facility tours (AES Pacific- Northwest chapter comes to mind) and I have wondered why we (in New England) seem to not be capable of doing this ourselves (all the while being guilty of not doing anything about it myself).
That is no longer the case.

So "hats off" to David, Jason Dermer, Bennet Prescott and Ales Dravinec from Eona-ADR Audio, Ivan Beaver and Danley Sound Labs, Chuck and JP from APB, Jamie and Karen from Rational Acoustics, Sennheiser, Shure, Soundcraft, EAW, the various reps in attendance and all the rest of those who went to great effort to pull this off.

Now, to sleep.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success !
Post by: Bob Kenton on May 18, 2009, 11:06:13 pm
Do you know Tom if anyone is planning on a "final thoughts" thread?
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Dave Dermont on May 19, 2009, 12:38:48 am
Since this seems to be the first post about DemoFest, I made it sticky and added to the title.

I'll leave it here at the top of the forum for a while and let everyone who wants to post there thoughts on the event.

Of course, I'll have more to say, but  right now I am just going to get some rest and prepare for day two.

Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success !
Post by: Tom Young on May 19, 2009, 06:17:39 am
No.

But I won't be surprised if someone who is there for both days does this.

I would like to hear about Day-2.

Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Mike Christy on May 19, 2009, 01:11:24 pm
Tom, I thought the day deserved an A+++.

It was especially valuable getting a complete understanding of the wireless situation, and specifically the potential issues that can cause problems. Both the Sennheiser and Shure presenters made different, yet significant contributions. Not owning (but working with) wireless, it is now very clear to me how to proceed with purchasing and optimally operating these devices.

Although Jamie from Rational Acoustics only briefly touched on some highly technical points, the scenario involving the reflection and the comb filtering really brought it all together, and it convinced me to purchase a license in the near future. The Spectrograph alone seems worth the price… there is a lot of info in that rolling screen...

What can be said about Bill? As I wrote in another post, he was mesmerizing. Apparently something's don’t change - no one wants to pay for sound, and you don’t get rich from it, as he attested. No one outside the industry seems to appreciate the passion we have for this. That was the quickest 2 hours of the day.

My only regret is that I could only attend one day, and not stay for the evening session.

Also, I was interested in a couple of products, and would have very much liked to have gotten a quick demo, specifically of the Minis, the EAW system, and the QSC Ks. I will have to rely on reports.

Oh yes, we cant forget the big 3 panel…Tom, Bennett and Ivan,  from ground stacks to line arrays to horn properties, having three experts from the industry clarify and elaborate on their specialties was an invaluable experience. That one hour could easily be an entire day session.

Thank you David, the planning and organization of the event was outstanding, everyone that contributed, hauled in and set up gear, it is well appreciated.

You'd almost think it was put on by a group of pros!

Good meeting those I did,

Mike
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 19, 2009, 10:24:28 pm
Mike Christy wrote:

...would have very much liked to have gotten a quick demo, specifically of the Minis, the EAW system, and the QSC Ks.
The TH-Mini's were very flat and could get painfully loud - I wouldn't have believed how loud they get if I hadn't been there to experience them! I was contemplating K10's over TH-mini's but the K10's just don't keep up in SPL. Their horns are very smooth and I was able to get one up to the limit light for a bit but I didn't need earplugs to be close to them unlike the TH-mini's. Unfortunately I didn't try the K12's - I really should have. The K10's were a great sounding speaker but no way were there 1000 watts rms pumping them. I wish they'd publish the actual RMS limits used for the drivers...
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Bob Kenton on May 19, 2009, 10:29:06 pm
Ron Kimball wrote on Wed, 20 May 2009 03:24

Mike Christy wrote:

...would have very much liked to have gotten a quick demo, specifically of the Minis, the EAW system, and the QSC Ks.
The TH-Mini's were very flat and could get painfully loud - I wouldn't have believed how loud they get if I hadn't been there to experience them! I was contemplating K10's over TH-mini's but the K10's just don't keep up in SPL. Their horns are very smooth and I was able to get one up to the limit light for a bit but I didn't need earplugs to be close to them unlike the TH-mini's. Unfortunately I didn't try the K12's - I really should have. The K10's were a great sounding speaker but no way were there 1000 watts rms pumping them. I wish they'd publish the actual RMS limits used for the drivers...






Is your sub search over now? LOL
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 19, 2009, 10:45:56 pm
Bob Kenton wrote:

Is your sub search over now? LOL
JTR was supposed to be there with Growlers - I really wanted to hear them also but size is VERY important to me. Ivan said the TH-Mini's were being a bit overfed - maybe he'll chime in with what amp was used? Smile
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 20, 2009, 12:02:57 am
Ron Kimball wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 22:45

Bob Kenton wrote:

Is your sub search over now? LOL
JTR was supposed to be there with Growlers - I really wanted to hear them also but size is VERY important to me. Ivan said the TH-Mini's were being a bit overfed - maybe he'll chime in with what amp was used? Smile


I was using 1/2 of a Danley 6.5K amp, which will do 2200RMS at 4 ohms-which is what a pair of minis is.  With the 700RMS each that is 1400RMS.  I would recommend an amp in the 1400-2200W range.  2200 is not that much more.

BTW I don't believe (but am not sure) we were maxing out the amp when any of the subs were being played.  So there was still room to go.

As has been said before-I don't believe in 6dB over rated power.

As with everything, I take the conservative approach.  I would rather have the loudspeakers last longer. Laughing
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 20, 2009, 10:43:08 am
Scott Hibbard wrote:

How did the TH-412 and SH-60 sound? Any thoughts/observations/pics?
Thankfully the TH-412 was only getting 2200wrms (I think it was 4 or 5 ohm?) but even at that I think it could have liquified the lot of us if it had been turned up all the way. You might need two if outdoors with 500+? I'm not sure which of the two top cabs were active during most of its test (there was an SH60 and SH64 I think?) but definitely a great sounding cab at the SPL's it was run at. Very even coverage best I've ever heard! While I've heard plenty of cabs that go to hell at full power (honk - old JBL - honk) I'd be very surprised if this guy didn't just keep getting louder.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 20, 2009, 10:51:29 am
Ivan Beaver wrote:

I was using 1/2 of a Danley 6.5K amp, which will do 2200RMS at 4 ohms-which is what a pair of minis is ... I don't believe (but am not sure) we were maxing out the amp when any of the subs were being played.
Thanks for the info!  When you switched over to the mini's from the TH412 I thought you just fired them up on the other channel - I had to walk over to the TH412 to verify it wasn't still on Shocked.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on May 20, 2009, 11:15:46 am
Ron Kimball wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 22:45

Bob Kenton wrote:

Is your sub search over now? LOL
JTR was supposed to be there with Growlers - I really wanted to hear them also but size is VERY important to me. Ivan said the TH-Mini's were being a bit overfed - maybe he'll chime in with what amp was used? Smile



Ron,

I actually did the same exact comparison between the Growlers and TH-Mini's a year and a half ago at the Maryland sub shootout.  I listened just to the Growlers and Mini's for about 20-25 minutes.  You can look up the results from that and I believe I put my thoughts between the 2 and the one I went with.

Of course, it always helps to hear them live, side by side.

Hope it helps!
Phil
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 20, 2009, 01:37:54 pm
Phil Lewandowski wrote:

...I believe I put my thoughts between the 2 and the one I went with.
Thanks! If they were the same price would you have decided differently?
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on May 20, 2009, 02:06:54 pm
Ron Kimball wrote on Wed, 20 May 2009 13:37

Phil Lewandowski wrote:

...I believe I put my thoughts between the 2 and the one I went with.
Thanks! If they were the same price would you have decided differently?


You know, I don't think so.  The ~$400 or so difference wasn't really a big deal.  For me that 40-50hz could really be noticed in the Growler and it just made that extra "ummph" behind what I heard.  Plus doing small mobile DJ stuff on the side made the also a plus.  The Mini is an amazing sub in its own while not even taking size in matter.  But I think for just live sound stuff the Mini is very impressive.

Take Care!
Phil
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Wil Davis on May 20, 2009, 02:07:00 pm
Sorry, I posted this on the original thread, not realizing that there was a "stickie", so here it is again:  

Here are some pictures from the Monday evening live music session; no captions or info yet, but feel free to comment (or at least name names Wink   - thanks…

http://wildavis.smugmug.com/gallery/8258955_XxQks/1/54035436 9_t7MAU#540354369_t7MAU

I had a great time and learned tons of cool stuff!   Thanks again, David for organizing it, and to the rest of the crew for bringing all the gear and sharing time, information and experience!  

- Wil

Title: Thanks so much everyone!!!
Post by: David C Nickerson on May 20, 2009, 03:31:23 pm
Thanks so much to everyone who made this event possible:
Bennett and Tom Young for helping from the start.

Jason for hauling up and managing the "house" PA.

Thanks to Jamie and Karen from Rational Acoustics, Dave from Sennheiser, Tim from Shure, Howard from Lectrosonics and Brian Doser for adding real educational benefit to the event.

Thanks to Greg Bass for stepping up and manning the video camera last-minute through the whole 2-day run.  Now what do I do with all of this content?  I've only got 2 GB left on my show computer now.

Thanks to the area reps that made it and shared some of their lines: Bill King, Dave Henderson as well as Perry and the Hanoud guys.

Thanks to all of the manufacturers who shared their offerings: Alec from EONA, Chuck and JP from APB Dynasoncis, Howard from Lectrosonics, Mike from Allen & Heath, Tom from Soundcraft, Carlton and Shannon from Stage Research.

Thanks to Dave D for helping to keep the planning of this event vibrant here on the Forums.

Thanks to Bill Hanley for sharing some of his wealth of experiences.

Thanks to Tyra Penn and the players she brought along to be our test subjects for Monday night.

And thanks to all of the crew (Dan, Dave, Steve, Ryan, Tony) who came early to help with the in and hung late to help with the strike.

My head is still spinning, and I'm thinking of heading to Infocomm so I can actually sit, relax and absorb... I'm sure I've overlooked some names, but please know that this event would not have been possible without everyone chipping in as you all did.

Oh yeah.  Big thanks to the host facility: The Wachusett Village Inn.  They've long been a client, I've always seen them taking good care of their guests.  You'd be hard-pressed to find a facility that will treat you as well.

Thank you all very much!  I guess we'll have to do this again.

Mark your calendars, I just reserved the facility for next year: May 17-18 2010!  (When do we start the "planning" thread?)

David Nickerson
Bay State Sound



Tom Young wrote on Mon, 18 May 2009 22:08

I just returned from Day-1 of the Demo/gear fest that David Nickerson spearheaded. Unfortunately I coud not stay for Day-2.

It far surpassed what I imagined it would be. Perhaps 50 folks were there today as well as a good number of manufacturers, some of whom travelled far to participate in this. More folks due tomorrow.

Everyone was of the "serious, passionate about live audio" ilk and (of course) many or all were LABsters.

The presentations were all VERY good. Today ended with Bill Hanley's recollections of starting out in the PA business and leading up to doing sound for Woodstock (the real one). His anecdotes were fascinating and inspiring. As it turns out, his motivations were no different than mine and everyone I know/respect in this business (he felt strongly that live sound could be improved and he did something about this). He just started doing it before we all did and managed to be involved in some of the greatest early (historical) events .... as well as many since.

The venue and its staff were all great. The acoustics of the conference room were far above average. The spirit of this entire endeavor was A+.

I suspect that this took considerable effort and planning on David's part and I personally want to thank him for doing all that it took to pull this off so well. For a long time I have envied what certain geographical areas across the US do as far as audio-related meetings, demos and facility tours (AES Pacific- Northwest chapter comes to mind) and I have wondered why we (in New England) seem to not be capable of doing this ourselves (all the while being guilty of not doing anything about it myself).
That is no longer the case.

So "hats off" to David, Jason Dermer, Bennet Prescott and Ales Dravinec from Eona-ADR Audio, Ivan Beaver and Danley Sound Labs, Chuck and JP from APB, Jamie and Karen from Rational Acoustics, Sennheiser, Shure, Soundcraft, EAW, the various reps in attendance and all the rest of those who went to great effort to pull this off.

Now, to sleep.

Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 20, 2009, 05:14:56 pm
Ron Kimball wrote on Wed, 20 May 2009 10:43

Scott Hibbard wrote:

How did the TH-412 and SH-60 sound? Any thoughts/observations/pics?
Thankfully the TH-412 was only getting 2200wrms (I think it was 4 or 5 ohm?)

The TH412 has internal jumpers that can be moved to make it either Two 4 ohm loads-or a single 2 ohm or single 8 ohm load.

As it was wired it was 2 ohm and the 1/2 amp I had on it was rated at 3250 W@ 2 ohms.  So yes, the amp was a bit small for what the cabinet would really like to see for maximum output.

The other cabinet that was played most of the time (except for a little while Monday night) was the SH64.  It was on the other half of the amp.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: John Chiara on May 20, 2009, 09:03:29 pm
Mike Christy wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 13:11


Oh yes, we cant forget the big 3 panel…Tom, Bennett and Ivan,  from ground stacks to line arrays to horn properties, having three experts from the industry clarify and elaborate on their specialties was an invaluable experience. That one hour could easily be an entire day session.




What do you mean..big? Twisted Evil


Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Phil LaDue on May 20, 2009, 10:27:09 pm
This event far exceeded my expectations.
David really pulled this together well, especially considering he had so little time.
These events are so amazing because they allow everyone from the weekend warriors to national companies to come together and see what manufacturers have to offer and network with people they usually wouldn't see.

As always, it was great to put some names with faces.


I would especially like to thank Tim Vear from Shure, Howard Kauffman from Lectrosonics and David Missal from Sennheiser for their excellent presentations on RF.

So many of us have been guilty of just "throwing" up a wireless system in the easiest way possible.
If everyone made enough free time to attend even 1 session like this we would see a significant reduction is wireless "problems" at shows.

The most fascinating part of the event was definitely Bill Hanley's presentation on the history of festival sound from his perspective.

One day I will be able to tell the next generation how I sat across the table from the man who designed and built the sound system at Woodstock.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: John Chiara on May 21, 2009, 09:55:56 am
One interesting thing that I noticed and mentioned to Bennett. The band was miced up with good to great mics..and the vocalist was "forced" to use a variety of mics..Telefunken M80, AKG D5, Heil PR 22, PR 35 and a PR 35 capsule wireless, B57..and maybe more...I was drinking beer by that time. The surprise was OH's were Heil 30's or 40's..and the drum kit was miced with an Equation mic kit..which costs less than one of the overhead mics!
All worked well..IMO.
John
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 21, 2009, 10:36:19 am
John Chiara wrote:

..and the vocalist was "forced" to use a variety of mics..Telefunken M80, AKG D5, Heil PR 22, PR 35 and a PR 35 capsule wireless, B57..and maybe more...
It was a bit hard to compare as the board was being fiddled with and no-one was announcing what mic was being switched to. Anyways the one that sounded best to me was the OM-5. The Beta 57 was pretty good too. The M80 cut all the "air" out of the jazz singer's voice IMO and some of the other got horribly honky (but maybe that was the mains?). I don't think they got 'round to an N/D767A which is what I would have used from my severely limited collection. I was rather spoiled by owning a Beyer M-500 handheld ribbon back in the 80's and if anyone knows what are the newer mic(s) that caused them to discontinue that one I'd love to hear it/them - maybe a cardiod condenser?

Oh, and Kudos to those involved in putting on this event. For a first time event it was extremely well organized. Maybe there should be some solicitation of offline critique to feed forward into next year's event Smile?
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on May 21, 2009, 12:24:17 pm
The vocal mic I preffered most was the one she started the night off with, don't know which model, all I know it was very sparkly in appearance  Smile


I also never cared for the sound of the kick drum, but it might be more related to the actual size of the drum used and how it was tuned. For my taste it seemed like it was tuned a bit high and didn't have enough low end thump to it........but I realize it was more of a jazz kit and maybe thats how it should have sounded, I just like a kick drum with more meat to it.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Jason Dermer on May 21, 2009, 12:38:24 pm
I you wanted to hear something specific during the evening band session, you should have just jumped in, I thought that by making it informal and letting everyone at everything we would have a good time just "fiddling around" instead of actually "testing." My apologies if 15 people mixing while 5 people kept swapping things did not come across correctly. Smile FWIW, the idea of switching the vocal mics regularly was not to find which was the best mic, but to find out which mic worked for that singer WITH NO EQ, only a swept HPF. In this case, the fairly universal answer was the OM7 (not 5). If someone handed her a BehrinSamso GTRCTR1 and it sounded great than we would have stopped there as we did with the OM. It was the same with the guitar and overhead mics, we moved and or switched those quite a bit as well, trying to find the placement and mic combo that gave us an UN-EQ'd sound that made the source fit into the mix.

Mic selection, technique, and placement has already been nominated for one of the sessions next year, but again the focus will NOT be "which mic is the best" but "what works best in this situation."

Yes, the sound was "honky" with the M80, but that do not mean that the mains were. It only meant that the M80 does not work with her voice. Smile
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 21, 2009, 12:40:19 pm
Vinny D'Agostino wrote on Thu, 21 May 2009 12:24

I also never cared for the sound of the kick drum, but it might be more related to the actual size of the drum used and how it was tuned. For my taste it seemed like it was tuned a bit high and didn't have enough low end thump to it........but I realize it was more of a jazz kit and maybe thats how it should have sounded, I just like a kick drum with more meat to it.

Generally with a jazz kit the bass drum is supposed to sound like... well, a bass drum. It is not generally supposed to be electronically enhanced. It should sound like the drum does onstage, just reenforced as much as necessary.

Mac
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on May 21, 2009, 12:47:30 pm
Yes, the kit certainly worked for the style of music they were playing, it's just more of a personal preference in the sound of the kick itself.

By the way, the band played and sounded great and if I understood what the singer was saying they had never even played together....or something to the fact.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 21, 2009, 12:53:00 pm
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:

all I know it was very sparkly in appearance
Oooo... Sparkley! Smile
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:

I also never cared for the sound of the kick drum
I hated the sound through the PA and stuck my ears up near the actual kick drum to check it out. I thought the drum acoustically was the best I've heard in a loooong time. IMO the PA had way too much "thump" on it and the "wetness" of the kick was completely lost until the last couple songs they played. I'd have pushed the mic into the drum another 8-12 inches to get more beater. But then again I don't believe in "fixing" the sound of an acoustic instrument unless it is clearly f'ed up and some try to get them all to sound the same. Intereesting that you didn't think it was "thumpy" enough Very Happy. We're all a bunch of opinionated bastards anyways when it comes to how things should sound - I like to think of SR as 50% art and 50% science and my art may not sound like your art but if it wasn't that way this wouldn't be much fun Smile.
Title: Jazz drums
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 21, 2009, 12:58:08 pm
Ron Kimball wrote on Thu, 21 May 2009 12:53

I hated the sound through the PA and stuck my ears up near the actual kick drum to check it out. I thought the drum acoustically was the best I've heard in a loooong time. IMO the PA had way too much "thump" on it and the "wetness" of the kick was completely lost until the last couple songs they played. I'd have pushed the mic into the drum another 8-12 inches to get more beater.  


I wasn't there as I had to work those days (and jury duty) but it doesn't sound like the jazz kits I've run into. There is no such thing as pushing the mic into the drum further on a bass drum with a resonant head with no hole in it.

Mac
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 21, 2009, 01:06:50 pm
Jason Dermer wrote:

FWIW, the idea of switching the vocal mics regularly was not to find which was the best mic, but to find out which mic worked for that singer WITH NO EQ, only a swept HPF.
Would have been more "fun" for me if I had known that was what was going on.
Jason Dermer wrote:

In this case, the fairly universal answer was the OM7 (not 5).
I don't know if an OM5 was also tried or if the guy I asked about what mic what being swapped out told me wrong?
Jason Dermer wrote:

If someone handed her a BehrinSamso GTRCTR1 and it sounded great than we would have stopped there as we did with the OM.
I thought the last mic used was a Beta 57? I'm sooo confuzed Wink.
Jason Dermer wrote:

Yes, the sound was "honky" with the M80, but that do not mean that the mains were. It only meant that the M80 does not work with her voice. Smile
I think one or two of the other mics used were even worse. I was surprised the Beta 57 sounded as good as it did. Was a Beta 58A tried and if so what did it sound like relative to the '57?
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on May 21, 2009, 01:35:57 pm
It is funny how everyone hears stuff different Very Happy

I liked the demo, I liked being able to move around from seat to seat and listen to the differences in the room itself.

Hopefully at the next event I can spend more time there, I was only able to get there for the band portion of the evening.....but even that was enough time to fall in love with the Lab Gruppen amps that where there!
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 21, 2009, 03:08:51 pm
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:

It is funny how everyone hears stuff different Very Happy
Hence the "art" part Very Happy
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:

I liked being able to move around from seat to seat and listen to the differences in the room itself.
Maybe next time we could get the Smaart folks to demonstrate how you'd tune the system to the room? Not a very challenging room but it still would have been interesting to see what they'd do about the couple of room resonances Smile.
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:


Hopefully at the next event I can spend more time there, I was only able to get there for the band portion of the evening.....but even that was enough time to fall in love with the Lab Gruppen amps that where there!
What did you like about the amps? They sounded pretty much the same as RMX's (and any other non-crap amp) to me. Now at home playing a nice digital recording of a Stradivarius or some such I can certainly hear the difference between my Denon class-A amp and the $100 Sherwood I use to mess around with stuff with but with high SPL live SR in some random room I don't think there are many amps that are bad enough that you will hear a difference?
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on May 21, 2009, 03:20:40 pm
Ron Kimball wrote on Thu, 21 May 2009 20:08

Vinny D'Agostino wrote:


Hopefully at the next event I can spend more time there, I was only able to get there for the band portion of the evening.....but even that was enough time to fall in love with the Lab Gruppen amps that where there!
What did you like about the amps? They sounded pretty much the same as RMX's (and any other non-crap amp) to me. Now at home playing a nice digital recording of a Stradivarius or some such I can certainly hear the difference between my Denon class-A amp and the $100 Sherwood I use to mess around with stuff with but with high SPL live SR in some random room I don't think there are many amps that are bad enough that you will hear a difference?


Well, I never really looked into the Lab Gruppen amps before because I always just figured they were way out of my price range. I liked the 4-channel amplifier that was on display and the fact that it was very light but had plenty of power (if i remember correctly the one on display was 2000w per channel @ 4ohms). I could replace my FOH amp rack with that one amplifier, and my roadie/girlfriend could move it all by herself Smile
I was just impressed with it, no real reason other then I just liked it.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 21, 2009, 03:40:11 pm
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:

Well, I never really looked into the Lab Gruppen amps before because I always just figured they were way out of my price range. I liked the 4-channel amplifier that was on display and the fact that it was very light but had plenty of power (if i remember correctly the one on display was 2000w per channel @ 4ohms). I could replace my FOH amp rack with that one amplifier, and my roadie/girlfriend could move it all by herself Smile I was just impressed with it, no real reason other then I just liked it.

That's cool - just wondering if you saw/heard something I didn't Smile. I didn't check them out mostly because of their megadollar rep - glad to hear they are getting a bit more affordable. Sure would add a bit of "geek bling factor" to the amp rack Cool.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: John Chiara on May 21, 2009, 05:07:30 pm
Ron Kimball wrote on Thu, 21 May 2009 15:08

Vinny D'Agostino wrote:

It is funny how everyone hears stuff different Very Happy
Hence the "art" part Very Happy
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:

I liked being able to move around from seat to seat and listen to the differences in the room itself.
Maybe next time we could get the Smaart folks to demonstrate how you'd tune the system to the room? Not a very challenging room but it still would have been interesting to see what they'd do about the couple of room resonances Smile.
Vinny D'Agostino wrote:


Hopefully at the next event I can spend more time there, I was only able to get there for the band portion of the evening.....but even that was enough time to fall in love with the Lab Gruppen amps that where there!
What did you like about the amps? They sounded pretty much the same as RMX's (and any other non-crap amp) to me. Now at home playing a nice digital recording of a Stradivarius or some such I can certainly hear the difference between my Denon class-A amp and the $100 Sherwood I use to mess around with stuff with but with high SPL live SR in some random room I don't think there are many amps that are bad enough that you will hear a difference?


The room wasn't that challenging at the levels the band was at..but a rock act in that room would be plenty challenging. tha back wall slap alone could kill you at 10-15 db more level.
I don't think I could judge the low end well enough at the volume we were at. The bass sounded crisp and defined but without a rock drummer it is hard to judge subs..if that is what you are going to use them for. Plus the drummer to me was playing a jazz kit..with a matched grip and hit the snare many times like it was heavy metal...a little out of context.

John
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: John Chiara on May 21, 2009, 05:20:39 pm
Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 21 May 2009 12:40

Vinny D'Agostino wrote on Thu, 21 May 2009 12:24

I also never cared for the sound of the kick drum, but it might be more related to the actual size of the drum used and how it was tuned. For my taste it seemed like it was tuned a bit high and didn't have enough low end thump to it........but I realize it was more of a jazz kit and maybe thats how it should have sounded, I just like a kick drum with more meat to it.

Generally with a jazz kit the bass drum is supposed to sound like... well, a bass drum. It is not generally supposed to be electronically enhanced. It should sound like the drum does onstage, just reenforced as much as necessary.

Mac

I am recording a Jazz Quartet as I type...and the bass drum is about as far from a rock kick as it could be. All the drums are tuned high and tight. And I am using the same Equation mic on the kick.

John
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 21, 2009, 05:21:25 pm
John Chiara wrote:

Plus the drummer to me was playing a jazz kit..with a matched grip and hit the snare many times like it was heavy metal...a little out of context.
I actually thought it was more a case of it being overamplified - I assumed they had it up a bit so we could hear the mic? I didn't see a mike on the bottom of the snare but maybe I missed it - might have mellowed it out a bit to mix more bottom and less top? I was really impressed by how the kit sounded acoustically.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Bennett Prescott on May 21, 2009, 05:32:07 pm
Ron Kimball wrote on Thu, 21 May 2009 17:21

John Chiara wrote:

Plus the drummer to me was playing a jazz kit..with a matched grip and hit the snare many times like it was heavy metal...a little out of context.
I actually thought it was more a case of it being overamplified - I assumed they had it up a bit so we could hear the mic? I didn't see a mike on the bottom of the snare but maybe I missed it - might have mellowed it out a bit to mix more bottom and less top? I was really impressed by how the kit sounded acoustically.

For much of the night most of the microphones were muted. Kick, overheads, vocal, and some bass were the primary channels.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ron Kimball on May 21, 2009, 05:56:45 pm
Bennett Prescott wrote:

For much of the night most of the microphones were muted. Kick, overheads, vocal, and some bass were the primary channels.
Maybe it was the overheads picking it up? I thought the snare was quieter up close where you couldn't hear the mains. Seemed to me the snare was louder out the PA than the vocals...
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on May 22, 2009, 02:55:17 pm
David, you did it really good. Kudos all the way.

It was my first time I ever touched Danley stuff. Impressive if I might add...

RF stuff ... excellent presentations ... I didn't know that I don't know shit about radio stuff. Nice occasional sparkling between Shure and Lectrosonics too ... all for the good cause.

Bill Hanley, what a man. He shared some first hand intel on Woodstock and some other, not less important events.

Band and stuff ... if anybody was looking for the amazing kick sound, that probably was not the place to look for it.
I just know, that when my two minutes arrived, I needed to mute half of the mics and ask bass player to level down a tad so the band should start to sound like something...

Mics ... liked Audix, not Telefunken so much.

LOVED Petrucelli vintage signature compressor !

Jamie of Rational acoustics made my day with the exact 'dosage' of super funny remarks.

index.php/fa/22860/0/

Awesome people, great event. Count me in for 2010

With respect

Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: John Chiara on May 22, 2009, 09:33:05 pm
Ales, It was great meeting you at this event..a very mild and humble man with great knowledge.
John
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 22, 2009, 09:55:00 pm
It was great meeting you.

I guess you get the award for the furthest travel distance Cool .

And I am next, by being from another country-THE SOUTH! Laughing

Thanks again David and I learned quite a bit from the RF presentations.

Great company and great accommodations.  Without a doubt the best $49/night hotel I have ever been in.

Count me in for next year also.

Those of you who missed it-missed a lot.

My biggest regret is that around 12:30AM Monday night/tues morning I was awakened by "boom boom thump thump".  I figured Bennett and the crew were playing around in the room and thought about getting up and joining them.  But I fell asleep instead Crying or Very Sad .

I now wish I had come down.  It was the only time the loudspeakers were "opened up". Oh well, there is always next year.

Our industry needs more of these type events.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Mike Pyle on May 24, 2009, 12:19:17 pm
Anyone posting photos?
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on May 24, 2009, 12:36:33 pm
Mike Pyle wrote on Sun, 24 May 2009 17:19

Anyone posting photos?


Will Davis had this posted in the topic that was locked earlier:
http://wildavis.smugmug.com/gallery/8258955_XxQks/1/54035436 9_t7MAU

Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Phil LaDue on May 24, 2009, 10:27:15 pm
Ivan Beaver wrote on Fri, 22 May 2009 21:55

My biggest regret is that around 12:30AM Monday night/tues morning I was awakened by "boom boom thump thump".  I figured Bennett and the crew were playing around in the room and thought about getting up and joining them.  But I fell asleep instead Crying or Very Sad .

I now wish I had come down.  It was the only time the loudspeakers were "opened up". Oh well, there is always next year.

We were trying to keep the red lights flashing on the 618's.

You know it's serious bass when you can feel the concrete floor moving.
Very Happy
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Dave Dermont on June 03, 2009, 07:59:07 am
My blog entry for the event has been posted.

There is also a photo gallery.

Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: David C Nickerson on June 12, 2009, 10:46:35 pm
Thanks for putting that up Dave!

Looking forward to next year.

Please everyone, share your suggestions.

Best,
David

Dave Dermont wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 07:59

My blog entry for the event has been posted.

There is also a photo gallery.



Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 14, 2009, 01:22:05 pm
David,

Did those videos come out?
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: David C Nickerson on June 15, 2009, 12:15:06 am

Bennett Prescott wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 13:22

David,

Did those videos come out?



Hey Bennett,
Oh yeah.  My MBP is loaded down with all of that content (as an iMovie file for each session).

I've not used the machine since the Fest, but I need space on it for a show next week.  I'll likely just start a dump to an external HD.

Let me know if you have ideas or want some of the files.

Talk soon,
David
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 15, 2009, 02:22:23 pm
I'd love to see even just rough cuts thrown up on YouTube for the panel discussions... Especially wireless, and of course the one with Tom, Ivan and I.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ivan Beaver on June 21, 2009, 12:30:17 pm
The one from Bill Hanley needs to be out there for HISTORY sake!

Once lost, it will not be available.

I also think the wireless talks were GREAT and people need a better understanding of what is going on in that area.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: David C Nickerson on June 23, 2009, 02:26:11 am
Absolutely.

I dumped them all to QT last week, I'm not very YouTube savvy, and haven't had time to put into figuring it out, but I imagine there's a size limit to files.

Let me see what I can do compression-wise to get the files all onto a dvd maybe?

it'd be great to have an easy way of getting all of the data to anyone interested.

Soon, really, I'll get on it... really...  I have a few days off, and only about 1000 hours of work to put into the 1973 avion trailer I just bought.

here we go... fun, fun, fun...

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 12:30

The one from Bill Hanley needs to be out there for HISTORY sake!

Once lost, it will not be available.

I also think the wireless talks were GREAT and people need a better understanding of what is going on in that area.

Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Bennett Prescott on June 23, 2009, 10:45:09 am
Last time I uploaded to YouTube it took a rather large file, so don't spend too much time on compression without finding out what they'll let you get away with. YouTube does their own compression, of course, so compressing your compression would look ugly.
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Matt Ruggeri on June 25, 2009, 12:35:54 am
I had a feeling some of my gear was being talked about.. The 4 Channel "Pet Projects" Quad Comp. John is currently restoring this unit for me. After years of trying to find info and schematics, i stumbled into an "old treasures" thread. Someone mentioned "Pet Projects" and I IMMEDIATELY posted! John just happened to post. http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/35097/0/0/1 0289/

If John starts building Comps along these lines again, i will buy as many as I can hide from the wife! This Comp is still my favorite. I like my Drawmers, but this comp takes the cake hands down.

On another note, I wish I could've made it to demofest. I should login to the forums more than once a mmonth! I am dying to try one of John's APB ProRack House Consoles.

Jason Dermer wrote
"It really was an APB fest- I brought a Spectra Ti48, Spectra Ti Expander and Mixswitch, the local APB rep (sorry, I forgot a name) brought a Prodesk 32, Prorack House and Mixswitch, Bennett had a Prorack House, and Chuck and John brought a Prodesk 24, Prorack House, and Prorack Monitor. Then there was the "P" of APB hit of the show as far as the mix engineers used to high end outboard were concerned. JP's 4 channel, 1 rack space, hand built in 1981, 3 knob per channel (160 style) compressor. Absolutely phenomenal! I'll take 4 please."
Title: Re: Boston area DemoFest - SMASHING success ! - Post Your Thoughts Here
Post by: Ales Dravinec 'Alex' on June 25, 2009, 01:22:26 am
index.php/fa/23395/0/

Yup, that's the one ... I'll require some of those too.
I even got the opportunity to peek under the hood. Man, some of the semiconductors manufacturers responsible for chips inside don't even exist any more Wink

w/r
Title: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: David C Nickerson on October 29, 2009, 10:18:03 am
Hi All,
I'm just starting to put feelers out for next year's gathering.  

Again, Wachusett Village Inn is the place.

How would you like to see the event change?

What sort of workshops would you like to see?

Any manufacturers you'd like for me to make sure have a presence?

Any ideas on who you'd like to see as a sort of "key note" speaker?

Thanks in advance for sharing your ideas, I'm hoping we can have another gathering as successful as the first.

Best,
David Nickerson
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Tom Young on October 29, 2009, 11:58:40 am
Hey Dave-

Man, you ARE a glutton for punishment !   Laughing

Hmmmm. It would be pretty hard to improve things over last year. Really.

Along with those who were there earlier this year, I'd like to see exhibits and/or demo's by:
Middle Atlantic (their UPS and other cool accessories)
Earthworks
Community Light & Sound

(obviously tryng to keep it 'real' as far as travel)

As far as keynote speakers, we could either have a round #2 with Bill Hanley or maybe get Scoville ? (Hey, it doesn't hurt to ask, right ?)

Of a purely (more) technical/engineering nature, presentations by Tom Danley, Dave Gunness, Kenton Forsythe, Ales Dravinec and/or Bruce Howze would be very interesting to me.

Maybe Bob Schluter (or whomever has written their recent white papers) from Middle Atlantic could discuss power for audio and A/V systems ?

More thoughts later.

BTW - Thanks for jumping in again. It was truly a great time.
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Phil LaDue on October 29, 2009, 07:42:27 pm
I know we threw around the idea of setting up a place outside that would allow deployment of line arrays.
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Vinny D'Agostino on October 31, 2009, 02:07:14 pm
I very much enjoyed the first event and will plan on attending the next one also.
I am more of a person that likes to look at stuff so the more displays of equipment the happier I am  Smile
I also was only there for the live band session on the first night (which I hope you will be doing again) and my only suggestion would have been for someone to explain what was being used as it was being changed out between different subs and high packs. I know there was mic changes happening but I couldn't tell you what was being changed to what...no one said anything!
I was not in the *in* group that was making all the changes so I had no idea what was being changed around.
And yes I could have spoken up and asked questions but like I said, I am more of a quiet person that really enjoys just looking and listening to stuff Cool
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Rob Spence on November 02, 2009, 04:55:30 pm
Vinny D'Agostino wrote on Sat, 31 October 2009 14:07

I very much enjoyed the first event and will plan on attending the next one also.
I am more of a person that likes to look at stuff so the more displays of equipment the happier I am  Smile
I also was only there for the live band session on the first night (which I hope you will be doing again) and my only suggestion would have been for someone to explain what was being used as it was being changed out between different subs and high packs. I know there was mic changes happening but I couldn't tell you what was being changed to what...no one said anything!
I was not in the *in* group that was making all the changes so I had no idea what was being changed around.
And yes I could have spoken up and asked questions but like I said, I am more of a quiet person that really enjoys just looking and listening to stuff Cool

+1

I agree that while the live band session was neat, it needed a moderator so you knew what you were hearing and then could listen for changes.
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: David Karol on December 11, 2009, 05:12:57 pm
David C Nickerson wrote on Thu, 29 October 2009 10:18

Any ideas on who you'd like to see as a sort of "key note" speaker?



I'd love to see a seminar by Richard Cadena.  

Also, I'm sure Izotope would be interested in coming out there.
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Jonathan Wiegratz on January 19, 2010, 04:03:10 pm
Is this a yearly event?  When will the next Boston area event take place?

Signed,
Curious in Charlestown   Very Happy
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Rob Spence on January 19, 2010, 04:49:45 pm
Jonathan Wiegratz wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 16:03

Is this a yearly event?  When will the next Boston area event take place?

Signed,
Curious in Charlestown   Very Happy

Read the title of your post Smile
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Jonathan Wiegratz on January 19, 2010, 04:55:59 pm
Oops... newb moment!    

I would definitely be interested in attending.
Title: Re: Planning for 2010. May 17 - 18 are the dates.
Post by: Chuck Augustowski on February 24, 2010, 12:23:27 pm
You do realize that these dates overlap the PAL Show in Canada (May 16-17) that some manufactures are required to be at.

Chuck Augustowski
APB-DynaSonics