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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS on December 04, 2012, 11:23:27 PM

Title: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS on December 04, 2012, 11:23:27 PM
There has obviously been a lot of chatter about the X32 and after tinkering with one at the local guitar center I think they are pretty well layed out.  Look like they will be great for a lot of applications.  I think I might even put a couple of them on my short list so that I can use them on the dirt gigs.  (I really need to get rid of my PM3500 and MC3210M to make room!)

All that being said, I just took delivery of a second GLD 80 system.

I got one of the very first GLDs when they started shipping and I have been using it on tons of stuff.  There have been a couple things about it that I really wish it had like a Next/Previous Scene button or at least the ability to program the UDKs to do those functions and I also wish it had an insertable Graphic that I could use on individual channels rather than have to eat up a mix to get an extra graphic where I need it.  I also wish that the Ipad app were out.  Other than that my original GLD system has been awesome for a small audio company like mine.  It has every other feature that I think I would need for my shows.  The GLD also has great audio quality that to my ears if far superior to my 01V96.  The local guys that I have had on the console have all had an easy time learning to get around on it although none of them have had enough time to learn all the different features of the console or how to build a show from scratch which is why it would be really nice to have an offline editor also.  Hopefully soon.  With the variety of shows that my company does, the very flexible routing of the GLD really makes for a great console for us.  In any given week we might do a small festival, a musical theatre or a choir, a race start line, a rock or country concert, a rave or even just a talking heads event.  This console excels at what we need it to do and can be easily reconfigured within seconds to meet the needs of a different show.

Often times around here the topic of Return on Investment comes up.  Several years ago I bought an A&H Mixwiz3 16:2.  It went out on rental the first week I had it and it completely paid for itself with the first rental.  My A&H GLD didn't do quite as well but it has completely paid for itself in the six months that I have owned it.  So I bought another one.  Hopefully it will do as well for me too.

So I don't want to change anyone's mind about an X32 as I don't think it was made to compete with the likes of the GLD, or others in it's class but if you are looking at the $5000-$15,000 price range consoles, I really think people might want to look at the GLD.  There hasn't been a lot of discussion about them yet but obviously I have been really happy with mine.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Jared Koopman on December 04, 2012, 11:58:02 PM

So I don't want to change anyone's mind about an X32 as I don't think it was made to compete with the likes of the GLD, or others in it's class but if you are looking at the $5000-$15,000 price range consoles, I really think people might want to look at the GLD.  There hasn't been a lot of discussion about them yet but obviously I have been really happy with mine.

Actually I beg to differ. I think it competes quite well with the GLD/LS9 crowd and has taken some of the market away from them. I am not saying the one is better than the others and yes, it is a Behringer, but the X32 certainly competes with them on features and even has the advantage in some areas. They all have their own limitations so as long as you know them going into it, no big deal.

FWIW we nearly got the GLD system but chose the X32 over it in the end. Obviously the budget was a big factor (the money saved getting the X32 allowed us to upgrade other much needed components. The X32 was able to simply plug into our system as is. The more we compared the two, the GLD seemed less desirable for us (limited local i/o, no offline editor, virtual soundcheck requires add on card, and still cost more than double the X32 option).  The X32 isnt perfect and time will tell reliability, but so far the product works as advertised and does what we need.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on December 05, 2012, 09:33:56 AM
Actually I beg to differ. I think it competes quite well with the GLD/LS9 crowd and has taken some of the market away from them. I am not saying the one is better than the others and yes, it is a Behringer, but the X32 certainly competes with them on features and even has the advantage in some areas. They all have their own limitations so as long as you know them going into it, no big deal.

FWIW we nearly got the GLD system but chose the X32 over it in the end. Obviously the budget was a big factor (the money saved getting the X32 allowed us to upgrade other much needed components. The X32 was able to simply plug into our system as is. The more we compared the two, the GLD seemed less desirable for us (limited local i/o, no offline editor, virtual soundcheck requires add on card, and still cost more than double the X32 option).  The X32 isnt perfect and time will tell reliability, but so far the product works as advertised and does what we need.

Just my 2 cents.
I think there's no doubt that the X32 has stolen some GLD sales, as probably has the Midas Pro 1.  That being said, there is still a lot to say for the GLD - really elegant digital snake, good product pedigree coming from ILive parentage, cool and flexible control surface, industry-standard Dante compatibility (with option card), and it doesn't say Behringer on it. 

One's application will dictate which list of features matches best - if you've already got existing wiring, then the digital snake isn't critical.  If you aren't working with the same band in different venues, virtual sound check probably isn't very useful, etc.

Competition is good for the consumer, and I too wish A&H would get off their butts and finish the IPad app/offline editor.  That is kind of a silly black eye right now.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Bob Leonard on December 05, 2012, 09:49:12 AM
Although I am not working in the digital world I follow the board developments closely. I'll agree the X32 is a trend setting board, low cost and feature laden. But, I live in my own world and when it comes time to make a purchase, even on a small scale, I'll not vary from the simple fact that you always, in one form or another, get what you pay for. The X32 MAY have some features not found on the GLD, but the GLD is certainly the better built and superior board.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Jeff Carter on December 05, 2012, 02:42:45 PM
...cool and flexible control surface...
I don't think it's possible to over-emphasize this aspect of the GLD.

Any processing channel or DCA can be assigned to any fader.

One thing I can do with that is create a "top" layer on the console, which allows me to have just about everything I need to mix the band on 20 faders at my fingertips.

I can start with a few faders assigned to the "money" inputs like lead VOX. Beside that, on the same layer I can put DCAs for level control of submixes like drums, multi-miced piano, or guitarists who switch between three different axes. Further down I can put in whatever effects returns I want to ride up and down. There's even room for a DCA for spoken-word mics (I mix FOH in a church with a GLD) so I can quickly throw up the fader when the pastor walks on stage and starts speaking while the band fades out.

If I want to tweak an individual drum mic level or EQ an individual guitar channel or piano mic, that's when I have to start digging through layers--but for the most part this kind of setup gives me immediate access to the the things I need to have close on a reasonable number of faders.

Now, try this on an X32, or even an Si compact...

Oh, and as a volunteer church FOH tech who can't always have access to the board to set up this kind of layout before rehearsal...

 I can haz offline editor plz?
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Jared Koopman on December 05, 2012, 03:39:16 PM
I don't think it's possible to over-emphasize this aspect of the GLD.

Any processing channel or DCA can be assigned to any fader.

One thing I can do with that is create a "top" layer on the console, which allows me to have just about everything I need to mix the band on 20 faders at my fingertips.

I can start with a few faders assigned to the "money" inputs like lead VOX. Beside that, on the same layer I can put DCAs for level control of submixes like drums, multi-miced piano, or guitarists who switch between three different axes. Further down I can put in whatever effects returns I want to ride up and down. There's even room for a DCA for spoken-word mics (I mix FOH in a church with a GLD) so I can quickly throw up the fader when the pastor walks on stage and starts speaking while the band fades out.

If I want to tweak an individual drum mic level or EQ an individual guitar channel or piano mic, that's when I have to start digging through layers--but for the most part this kind of setup gives me immediate access to the the things I need to have close on a reasonable number of faders.

Now, try this on an X32...


Easy, do it every weekend. :) All the primary inputs are setup on the first layer, and the less used inputs on the second. I use the DCA's as my master faders for fx, aux inputs, drum kit, etc. I may not have the flexibility to assign DCA's to any fader, but they still function the same way.

Please understand I am not saying the X32 is equivalent to anything else. Simply that it met the needs that we have, at the price we could afford and that it does impact the market that the GLD is in.

And as far as one being a better quality product remains to be seen as they are both "new" products. Just because one has a particular name on it or a higher price does not mean it is a higher quality product. It certainly can be true, but it is not a given.

Again I am not an X32 fanboy. I simply use one and I know its limitations and abilities. I certainly don't claim it to be the best thing since sliced bread. One would hope that the GLD (or other) does in fact sound better, if only to justify the added expense.

Anyways, just my 2cents
Jared
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Jeff Carter on December 06, 2012, 12:33:06 AM
Easy, do it every weekend. :) All the primary inputs are setup on the first layer, and the less used inputs on the second. I use the DCA's as my master faders for fx, aux inputs, drum kit, etc. I may not have the flexibility to assign DCA's to any fader, but they still function the same way.
That actually sounds a fair bit less kludgy than I thought.

If it holds up (and that's a much bigger "if", IMO, for the X32 than it is for the GLD) the X32 looks like it will serve a lot of people pretty well.

That said, I think the flexibility of the GLD really has to be experienced to be appreciated.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Rob Gow on December 06, 2012, 10:04:15 AM
I didn't realize there was no iPad app for the GLD


:(
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Jeff Carter on December 06, 2012, 10:56:53 AM
I didn't realize there was no iPad app for the GLD


:(
A&H are working on it so there will be one eventually.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS on December 06, 2012, 12:11:36 PM
I think the flexibility of the GLD really has to be experienced to be appreciated.

My point exactly.  I sure didn't to start any pissing matches between people that like the GLD and the X32.  As I mentioned,  I'll probably end up with a couple X32s for the dirt gigs but the GLD is a real winner when it comes to being extrememly flexable for many different applications.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 06, 2012, 02:13:26 PM
A&H are working on it so there will be one eventually.

It's like the iLive demo console we were promised.... 3+ years ago.  Time marches on & we purchased 5 consoles, Yamaha and AVID.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on December 06, 2012, 02:43:18 PM
My point exactly.  I sure didn't to start any pissing matches between people that like the GLD and the X32.  As I mentioned,  I'll probably end up with a couple X32s for the dirt gigs but the GLD is a real winner when it comes to being extrememly flexable for many different applications.

Yup, it's still a little too early to tell how robust these are, but this is interesting to watch from a distance and relatively painless (for me, now).  The X-32 enjoys a dramatic cost reduction thank's to Uli tooling up his own motor-fader, and vertical manufacturing integration, while one needs to wonder why Alps (or some other vendor) didn't respond with a lower price based on volume quotes, or if his fader design will hold up similar to motor faders already in use. I have seen Alps get down and dirty with pricing only after a competitor enters the market (like Jung Poon faders) so we'll see how that one aspect plays out.

I do not mean to detract from the total effort put into the X32 software and design, obviously many man-years of effort that benefited from Midas oversight and contributions. Longer term this looks like a plan to split the market between Midas for higher-end low volume apps and behringer for the higher volume low cost low end.
=====

Now we can wait to see what a Behringer line array looks like, with Turbo influence (no not turbo the goat). High end line arrays are not cheap because the market size is limited so volume is small. The low end line array market is mainly for customers, half of whom probably don't even need a line array, or even know what line arrays do, so for the right price, these customers will be easier to satisfy, and will be easier to sell using the high end brand as a line leader.

This grand scheme looks good on paper. What could possibly go wrong?  8) 8) 8)


JR
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Doug Fowler on December 06, 2012, 02:51:28 PM
Turbo was in fact a point-and-shoot goat. 

He detested line arrays. 

fwiw
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 06, 2012, 03:36:59 PM
Turbo was in fact a point-and-shoot goat. 

He detested line arrays. 

fwiw

I thought he'd approve of the Turbosound Flex-Array.  Oh well, RIP, Turbo.
Title: Re: Mixing consoles for us little guys....
Post by: Bob Leonard on December 06, 2012, 07:30:46 PM
Jane: Take me to Yolanda's tonight Dick, and I'll make it worth your while.

Dick: Yolanda's is way too expensive and the place is way, way too small.

Jane: But Dick, they have a line array and it's all the latest rage.

Dick: My goodness Jane, we simply must go to Yolanda's.

Jane: What is a line array Dick???

Dick: I don't know Jane but it must have something to do with line dancing.

Jane: I love to line dance Dick. I can't wait to get there.

Dick: Me too Jane. And please wear the Victoria Secret undee's I bought you.

Spot: Another night alone licking myself.
 
Sally: Kiss my ass dog.