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Title: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 05, 2013, 07:03:51 AM
I'm contemplating replacing at least a few of my wedges with something smaller. My pack size has become a serious problem, I simply can't fit all my gear.

Usage: I do sound mostly for other people's bands, in another part of the world they would be called bar bands (but we don't have bars), and I do a handful of b-level international touring acts each year and a handful of festivals.  Genres range from the occasional 20 piece orchestra to jazz, bluegrass, classic rock, and a rare heavy metal band.  Most everyone I work with is used to low-end equipment, even the touring bands (who are sponsored by the US State Department and get 'whatever' at their gigs, operated by whomever).  All of my customers would be satisfied with a well implemented SM12V monitor mix. I'd like something noticeably better.

Current Gear: I currently use pairs of NX550Ps, SRM450s, SM12Vs and an Eden 2*10 wedge (for bass) to get up to 5 mixes off an 8 aux 01V96 (3 auxes typically used for subs and verb) and no one has ever complained about monitor volume or quality.  Usually I do 4 and occasionally 5 monitor mixes.

IEMs: I've pretty much discarded the idea of IEM's, which is obviously the most pack-friendly.  Wouldn't work well at festivals with a dozen bands and 5-10 members each, hygiene concerns, stolen buds, 01V96 limited auxes for stereo mixes,...

Contenders: So I am in search of the smallest 'decent' quality monitors I can find.  I'm currently leaning towards RCF NX 10SMA or NX 12SMA (both coax designs) or maybe RCF TT08-As. (I use TT21A tops and love them.) I'd like to keep the price as close to $1,000/channel as possible, including amplification/rack.  The TT08s are a bit of a stretch but I can get a pretty good deal on a pair for around $3K and they could become my preferred tops for small gigs.

Although on the size specs the RCF NX 12-SMAs appear to be the same size as a standard non-coax 12 inch 2-way, RCF apparently measures the size of a 'bounding box' with the speaker set on the floor.  I did a gig 2 weeks ago with two of these and they are much smaller than, e.g. SRM450s, maybe 60% of the pack size.

Power: I'd prefer powered but would consider unpowered as long as the total price with amps and an amp rack fit my budget and size goal.  External amps take up more pack space.

Anything else I should be looking at for small, light, efficient wedges at the this price point?  It's gotta be significantly smaller than SRM450s, with amplification, to be worth considering, my only real need is to save pack space.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Geoff Doane on April 05, 2013, 08:22:39 AM
Craig Leerman took a pair of these for a road test and liked them:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,1394.0.html

They will come in at about half your stated budget.

I use up to half a dozen of the passive boxes and five of the ZXA1s for almost all my monitor needs these days.  It's no problem to EQ with just the parametric output EQ of an 01V console, and everyone likes the sound of them, so far.  I was a bit concerned with the durability of plastic speakers, and monitors never pack nicely anyway, so I had some relatively expensive road cases made for mine, but bags would probably work if you're trying to fit them into the nooks and crannies of your SUV.

GTD
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Scott Wagner on April 05, 2013, 09:19:30 AM
Contenders: So I am in search of the smallest 'decent' quality monitors I can find.  I'm currently leaning towards RCF NX 10SMA or NX 12SMA (both coax designs) or maybe RCF TT08-As. (I use TT21A tops and love them.) I'd like to keep the price as close to $1,000/channel as possible, including amplification/rack.  The TT08s are a bit of a stretch but I can get a pretty good deal on a pair for around $3K and they could become my preferred tops for small gigs.
I think you're on the right track with the NX-SMAs.  The ZXA1s are nice sounding little boxes, but I'm not sure they'll meet all of your requirements (I wouldn't choose these for rock band usage).
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 05, 2013, 10:52:57 AM
I think you're on the right track with the NX-SMAs.  The ZXA1s are nice sounding little boxes, but I'm not sure they'll meet all of your requirements (I wouldn't choose these for rock band usage).

Thanks Geoff and Scott.

Scott, what's your concern, SPL?

FYI, another attractive thing about the TT08's is I could use them for relatively inconspicuous front fills at some gigs.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Scott Wagner on April 07, 2013, 06:09:26 PM
Thanks Geoff and Scott.

Scott, what's your concern, SPL?

FYI, another attractive thing about the TT08's is I could use them for relatively inconspicuous front fills at some gigs.
Well, the ZXA1s sound very good, and I've had good results with them for lower volume monitor gigs.  While I haven't tried them for louder shows, my gut feeling is they won't really have enough gas.  Of course, I can't think of any 8" boxes that I'd want to try for louder shows.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on April 07, 2013, 07:37:36 PM
Thanks Geoff and Scott.

Scott, what's your concern, SPL?

FYI, another attractive thing about the TT08's is I could use them for relatively inconspicuous front fills at some gigs.

Mark....

FWIW, Alto makes a 12" concentric powered wedge:  SXM112a


http://altoproaudio.com/products/sxm112a

This specs out pretty much the same as the RCF gear except for being lighter weight.  I have a pair of them and am planning on getting another half-dozen real soon.  They pole mount and work fine for fills.  They have some contour pre-sets you can dial in for your intended application.  Amazon ships them for $299.00.

They're worth a look.  More (units) for your money......
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Ryan McLeod on April 07, 2013, 07:49:50 PM
I went on the same search a while back, and chose the DB Trchnologies DVX-DM28 - it's a 750w powered dual 8" with a 1.75" on top, placed between the two 8's. it sounds similar to a coax, is about the same size as a SRX712, and we liked them so much I replaced all 16 of my 712's with 'em.

The cost about the same as a new 712 at the time, but they're powered. Singers and horn players love them, they're about as stable as a coax, and vocals cut through with ease - little eq is generally needed.

My only 'complaint' is that all of the connections (powercon in/out and XLR in/out) are on one side - I would have preferred a pass-thru on the other side, but only about half the time :-)
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 07, 2013, 08:36:12 PM
I've looked quite a bit at the Altos Dick mentioned and I'm not sure I can go there.  They look decent for low volume stuff but you can do quite a bit better and be within your budget.  Given the budget and comments you put out there it seems you're going for consistency and quality among your monitors, not just the lowest price that will get you consistency around the stage.

FWIW, I've been on the same hunt and my requirements are clean, loud output with a 12" as my ideal for decent low output, but I always run mine with a 24db 100Hz LR HPF to keep them from fighting the subs anyway so I don't see a huge advantage in the lower output of a 15".  Coaxial is also on my wish list since I prefer the consistency and stability advantage that offers, as long as the quality is still there.  Ideally, that means a center mounted horn as well instead of using the moving cone for the horn flare.  Sure you can get decent stability from a traditional wedge, but there's a reason most of the latest top end wedges moved to coaxes.
I'd actually prefer passive, but there aren't that many passive 12" coax boxes that aren't also way outside my price range and I'd rather not DIY my own since most of the options I'd choose don't include a horn in the middle.  RCF makes the only thing that really seems to fit the bill from all the looking I've done.

The RCF NX series definitely made the wish list, but my budget is lower than that.  It's the marginally better speaker, but I also ended up with a db Technologies speaker like Ryan.  I take delivery of them this week from a local dealer who cut me an offer I couldn't refuse so I'll have 6 or 8 of the Flexsys FM12's by midweek.  I think I'd rather have the RCF's long run, but I don't do enough really high output gigs that the Flexsys won't keep up.  Maybe someday I'll get around to DIY'ing something with the better RCF driver they have with the 1.4" exit on the coax.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on April 07, 2013, 08:49:20 PM
I've looked quite a bit at the Altos Dick mentioned and I'm not sure I can go there.  They look decent for low volume stuff but you can do quite a bit better and be within your budget. 

So you're rating their output and usefulness by how they look?

Have you used them on stage?  I have.  I've had no complaints or comments that they were not loud enough or clear enough.  On the contrary.  They have received very favorable reviews from the musicians which I attribute not just to their sonic clarity and power, but their small footprint and smooth coverage from the 60 degree conical pattern.

But then, I'm happy with wedges that can put out a usable 126dB.  More than that and there's just too much stage wash for my taste. 
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Robert Patch on April 07, 2013, 09:13:13 PM
I was using SRM450's and got tired of schlepping them. I would have used ZXA1's if I thought I could get away with them, but I picked up QSC K10's instead.  People seem to be pleased with the sound, they are versatile for other uses and I like the form factor.  I think I might have preferred the slightly tighter pattern of the K12's in retrospect, but not the size.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Ryan McLeod on April 07, 2013, 10:24:50 PM
... I also ended up with a db Technologies speaker like Ryan.  I take delivery of them this week from a local dealer who cut me an offer I couldn't refuse so I'll have 6 or 8 of the Flexsys FM12's by midweek.

George, I'd love to hear your thoughts in the Flexsys - I haven't heard the yet.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Chuck Simon on April 07, 2013, 10:50:44 PM
So you're rating their output and usefulness by how they look?

Have you used them on stage?  I have.  I've had no complaints or comments that they were not loud enough or clear enough.  On the contrary.  They have received very favorable reviews from the musicians which I attribute not just to their sonic clarity and power, but their small footprint and smooth coverage from the 60 degree conical pattern.

But then, I'm happy with wedges that can put out a usable 126dB.  More than that and there's just too much stage wash for my taste.

I have to say, after my experience with the Alto TS112A, I would not rule out the SXM without giving them a listen.  Alto is making some surprisingly good products for the money!
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: GregBass on April 08, 2013, 07:37:21 AM
I've had a pair of the Alto wedges for over a year.  I find them adequate for all but the loudest bands.  Think, small stage area in a club, super loud drummer 4' from the back of the vocalist's head. Other than that, a fine budget box.  It would be nice if they made a more powerful version in their "Black" series.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 08, 2013, 10:52:42 AM
So you're rating their output and usefulness by how they look?

Have you used them on stage?  I have.  I've had no complaints or comments that they were not loud enough or clear enough.  On the contrary.  They have received very favorable reviews from the musicians which I attribute not just to their sonic clarity and power, but their small footprint and smooth coverage from the 60 degree conical pattern.

But then, I'm happy with wedges that can put out a usable 126dB.  More than that and there's just too much stage wash for my taste.

No, I'll admit to a bit of brand bias as well as not being a fan of the connection panel facing the audience and the single angle format.  I've always grouped Alto in the same pool as Sampson, Behringer, Phonic, etc.  Decent at lower volumes, not built for anything other than small stages.  The DIY cabs I'm trading up from have a steep and shallow option that I frequently find handy.  Yes, an AID made out of 2x4 can solve that, but it's always nicer when it's built in.

Your previous comments about them actually set me on a long search to try and source some.  I trust your opinion that they're a good little speaker, sound good, get acceptably loud for most uses and are a terrific value.  I'm somewhat interested in getting a few for my own church, with the exception that I'd much rather be passive there since the stage is prewired for speakon and we've already got 4 channels of amp.  Somebody blew out the HF in 3 of 4 older Mackie coaxial wedges (not just a protective fuse, unfortunately) and we're in desparate need of a new set to replace them.  The price is very appealing though and on paper it appears a decent box, just not up in the same range as the Flexsys or RCF. 
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 08, 2013, 11:27:52 AM
George, I'd love to hear your thoughts in the Flexsys - I haven't heard the yet.

I'd love to A/B them against the RCF and the little Altos under discussion here.  The only thing I'll have on hand to compare them to are Yamaha DXR10's and 12's, which aren't bad speakers and are close to the same price range, but it's a small sampling.

My only reservation about the Flexsys so far is the parallel XLR/TRS link rather than the XLR/XLR/TRS often found on other boxes.  I'd much rather see a TRS input with XLR i/o as well for daisy chaining.  At least in my current setup it's easy to assign the same output to at least two physical outputs and all my stage snakes are now 4 XLR return so I should have plenty of returns to put them anywhere I need onstage.  For me it's not a deal killer, and I do have XLR/TRS cables in the trunk, but it's so much nicer to just use standard XLR cabling everywhere no matter what the setup is.

The other minor design annoyance which I can't see a way around is that while they have a top hat for small mains usage all the connections end up on the top of the speaker.  So, while I may go there in a pinch, more than likely they'll get used as wedges 99 times out of 100.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Chuck Simon on April 08, 2013, 11:49:48 AM
"I've always grouped Alto in the same pool as Sampson, Behringer, Phonic, etc."

So did I until I actually heard them.  And, just as a reference point, my main monitor setup is  SRX 712M's powered by PLX 3402's
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Scott Wagner on April 08, 2013, 12:22:03 PM
"I've always grouped Alto in the same pool as Sampson, Behringer, Phonic, etc."

So did I until I actually heard them.  And, just as a reference point, my main monitor setup is  SRX 712M's powered by PLX 3402's
I own several of the Alto SXMs.  They are great sounding (especially at the price point), and they get plenty loud.  My only complaints with them are:

1. The XLR connectors do not latch.
2. The paint is fairly fragile.
3. No power pass-through.
4. Amp plate (and connectors) face the audience.

Of the options listed so far (that I have experience with), I'd put the RCF NX10SMA (or 12) at the top of the list.  They are rugged and well-designed powered monitors that can serve other purposes.  Seeing that Mark is already sporting a pile of RCF gear, these are a great choice if budget allows.

The EV ZXA1 are great little speakers that do many things very well (and look good doing it).  The plastic cabinets are prone to scuffing.  I don't consider these sufficient for loud monitor duty.  Other than that, they are also a great choice.

The Alto SXM112A are extremely useful and dirt cheap.  You can buy a truckload of these things.  They have surprised me on many levels - including output.  I wouldn't hesitate to throw these on a rock stage, and I'm not embarrassed to use them with picky musos.  For the price, these have no equal.

In the end, I'm sure Mark will make a great (and well-informed) choice that fits his particular needs.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 08, 2013, 10:57:53 PM
Of the options listed so far (that I have experience with), I'd put the RCF NX10SMA (or 12) at the top of the list.  They are rugged and well-designed powered monitors that can serve other purposes.  Seeing that Mark is already sporting a pile of RCF gear, these are a great choice if budget allows.

+1, given your complaint list, the RCF is the only option that solves all of those.  Maybe after the warranty expires I'll see about upgrading the Flexsys amp panel with passthrough powercon connections.  It'd be especially nice since my power snake is all rubber boxes with powercon passthrough so I could just chain everything together.  Of course, that seems like a less useful option as I think about relocating monitors around the stage, but in some circumstances it might work out well.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 08, 2013, 11:00:08 PM
I'm really wanting to get my hands on some of these Alto wedges now given all the positive comments.  Hard to imagine that a box retailing for ~$300 can be in the same ballpark as one retailing for near $1000.  If it can, I'm sold.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 08, 2013, 11:14:44 PM
Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far. I'm watching carefully but keeping my mouth shut since I asked for advice :).

I could get 6 Altos for the price of two RCF NX-12SMA's. Somewhat compelling, but I real don't like the connections facing the audience, really looks kind of cheap. 

Anyone near Houston have these? I'll be in Montgomery, TX in 4 more weeks for my annual shopping trip. 

Any stock, padded bags available for the Altos?
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 08, 2013, 11:16:29 PM
"I've always grouped Alto in the same pool as Sampson, Behringer, Phonic, etc."

So did I until I actually heard them.  And, just as a reference point, my main monitor setup is  SRX 712M's powered by PLX 3402's

Chuck, from your previous post it sounds like you haven't heard the Alto SXM112A's, correct?
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Chuck Simon on April 08, 2013, 11:19:09 PM
Chuck, from your previous post it sounds like you haven't heard the Alto SXM112A's, correct?

Right.  My opinions are based on my experience with the Alto TS 112A's.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Evan Hunter on April 09, 2013, 02:52:54 AM
I went on the same search a while back, and chose the DB Trchnologies DVX-DM28 - it's a 750w powered dual 8" with a 1.75" on top, placed between the two 8's. it sounds similar to a coax, is about the same size as a SRX712, and we liked them so much I replaced all 16 of my 712's with 'em.

The cost about the same as a new 712 at the time, but they're powered. Singers and horn players love them, they're about as stable as a coax, and vocals cut through with ease - little eq is generally needed.

My only 'complaint' is that all of the connections (powercon in/out and XLR in/out) are on one side - I would have preferred a pass-thru on the other side, but only about half the time :-)

No Hijacking intended, Would you say that they get as "loud" as a 712 and can take as much abuse? PM me if youd like to.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Chuck Simon on April 09, 2013, 09:25:38 AM
I went on the same search a while back, and chose the DB Trchnologies DVX-DM28 - it's a 750w powered dual 8" with a 1.75" on top, placed between the two 8's. it sounds similar to a coax, is about the same size as a SRX712, and we liked them so much I replaced all 16 of my 712's with 'em.

The cost about the same as a new 712 at the time, but they're powered. Singers and horn players love them, they're about as stable as a coax, and vocals cut through with ease - little eq is generally needed.

My only 'complaint' is that all of the connections (powercon in/out and XLR in/out) are on one side - I would have preferred a pass-thru on the other side, but only about half the time :-)

Just for the record, the HF is 1" exit with a 1.75" diameter diaphragm.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Dave Wightman on April 09, 2013, 11:49:34 PM
I have 3 Alto SXM112As and while they may not be the prettiest monitor on the market, they certainly exceeded my expectations for the price! I am not a huge fan of the connectors and switches being on the back and the paint does chip pretty easily, but the sound quality and volume is great for $300. I just used them this past Sunday with a rock cover band that was pretty loud on stage (very loud guitar player), but the monitors had no trouble keeping up with the band. Every one of the musicians told me they could hear themselves really well on stage and 1 of them even told me that I was providing him "a singer's wet dream."

Mark, while I'm not sure any of these cases and bags will be a perfect fit, here are the cases and bags Gator recommends for the SXMs:
http://www.gatorcases.com/search/manufacturer
Title: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: John Moore on April 10, 2013, 12:27:24 AM
+1 on the DM28s. Do a great job, we had 6 in our inventory (until stolen) but most muso's could not believe their ears on the output and quality. We also now have the FM12s. Used in a gig last Sunday and all were impressed with these wedges.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 11, 2013, 04:51:45 AM
+1 on the DM28s. Do a great job, we had 6 in our inventory (until stolen) but most muso's could not believe their ears on the output and quality. We also now have the FM12s. Used in a gig last Sunday and all were impressed with these wedges.

I don't suppose anyone has heard the D&B DM28s and RCF RCF NX-12SMA or 10SMA side-by-side? 

All three look interesting to me.  I just can't get my head around the Altos, totally unfounded brand bias I suspect, the bad location of the connectors shouldn't be that big a deal.  D&B doesn't seem to post polar plots for the DM28's. RCF does. Not that big a deal but if I can't hear them...  Both RCF models seem to have slightly lower low end extension. Not that big a deal on monitor duty but I occasionally add bass on larger stages and outdoors, and will use these occasionally for center fills and maybe even a small rig (which makes the RCF connectors in a really bad location, the wires come out the top on a pole mounted XXSMA box).

Anyone know the street price on the DM28s?

Anyway, that's where my thought process is today.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on April 11, 2013, 08:36:22 AM
I just can't get my head around the Altos, totally unfounded brand bias I suspect,

If it's someone else's money, buy the name brands.  If it's your own money, you owe it to yourself to do as I did:  buy a pair to try.  You'll always need a pair of something to put on sticks for casual speaking gigs or the like and these will be usable as that type of utility speaker.

I was so surprised at how loud and clear these got that I ordered more and replaced a bunch of  much larger and less capable speakers. 

One thing I like about the extra small footprint of a 12" co-axial box is how close you can get them to the performer.  And that does make a difference.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 11, 2013, 11:33:19 AM
If it's someone else's money, buy the name brands.  If it's your own money, you owe it to yourself to do as I did:  buy a pair to try.

Unfortunately I shop basically once a year on vacation, I won't really get to try whatever I buy until the Fall when our music season resumes.  Best I can do is a laptop playback audition, which is helpful, but it cuts down my time to source an alternative since I basically have 3 weeks to travel, buy and ship.

Any chance GC stocks the Alto's? That would at least allow me to audition them in Houston.

I'm still a thinkin...
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on April 11, 2013, 11:46:25 AM
Unfortunately I shop basically once a year on vacation, I won't really get to try whatever I buy until the Fall when our music season resumes.  Best I can do is a laptop playback audition, which is helpful, but it cuts down my time to source an alternative since I basically have 3 weeks to travel, buy and ship.

Any chance GC stocks the Alto's? That would at least allow me to audition them in Houston.

I'm still a thinkin...

The Alto's are an order item for any store.  Some GC's have the powered tops in stock, but I have not found any that have floor models of the wedges.

Try posting a "wanted to audition: Houston" in the Marketplace and see if any Labsters have them. 

By the way......

I've never heard anyone in the audience comment on the "works" on the back of the wedges be visible.  I can just hear it.

"Martha, have you ever seen anything as ugly as those monitor wedges?  You can see the input panel and a couple of Knobs!!!"

 ;D
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Tim Weaver on April 11, 2013, 02:34:09 PM
Unfortunately I shop basically once a year on vacation, I won't really get to try whatever I buy until the Fall when our music season resumes.  Best I can do is a laptop playback audition, which is helpful, but it cuts down my time to source an alternative since I basically have 3 weeks to travel, buy and ship.

Any chance GC stocks the Alto's? That would at least allow me to audition them in Houston.

I'm still a thinkin...

GC deals Alto, but does not stock them. Furthermore I just inquired about these wedges and they said they won't have them until may. Alto either produces them in batches or they can't keep up with demand. Either way I'm bummed because I want to buy some!
Title: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Tommy Peel on April 11, 2013, 02:49:14 PM
GC deals Alto, but does not stock them. Furthermore I just inquired about these wedges and they said they won't have them until may. Alto either produces them in batches or they can't keep up with demand. Either way I'm bummed because I want to buy some!

Amazon's been out of stock for a while now, good to know more should be on the way in May. Maybe by then my band can afford to buy a few.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Dave Wightman on April 11, 2013, 07:32:00 PM
I just can't get my head around the Altos, totally unfounded brand bias I suspect, the bad location of the connectors shouldn't be that big a deal. 
[/quote]

As long as you're on a decent sized stage and have some separation from the audience, the connectors being on the back don't matter too much. The only time I have noticed this being a problem is in a crammed bar where someone stepped on a power cable and it disconnected from the back of the monitor. As long as you don't have to worry about that, they are a fantastic buy!

As for trying them out, I have not seen a GC that stocks them, but here is a video of the SXM112a compared to the RCF NX12SMA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARlOd-IV6v8
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 12, 2013, 03:09:36 AM
...
As for trying them out, I have not seen a GC that stocks them, but here is a video of the SXM112a compared to the RCF NX12SMA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARlOd-IV6v8

'The Altos sound stuffy and boxy (compared to the RCFs)'.  Not a particularly great endorsement.  Is the Alto fan thermally controlled?  RPM controlled or on/off controlled, or always on?
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Sean Barry on April 12, 2013, 07:36:43 AM
'The Altos sound stuffy and boxy (compared to the RCFs)'.  Not a particularly great endorsement.  Is the Alto fan thermally controlled?  RPM controlled or on/off controlled, or always on?

I would not put a lot of faith in that utube bit. Unless you are looking for guitar speakers. The dude was hating on the Altos from the gitgo! For 3 times the price perhaps you should A/B shootout 2 Altos to 1 RCF? I have never heard either but I would trust the folks here way more than some not-to-good-guitar-playing-hack with 2 much $$$ & time on his hands :D
No offense meant to anyone, it's early in the morning and Amazon is out of Altos :(
As far as the fan speeds, Alto is quite ???Non descriptive?
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on April 12, 2013, 07:58:23 AM
'The Altos sound stuffy and boxy (compared to the RCFs)'.  Not a particularly great endorsement.  Is the Alto fan thermally controlled?  RPM controlled or on/off controlled, or always on?

I always evaluate my PA speakers by playing electric guitar with a distortion patch through them........NOT.

There were just too many variables involved PLUS the wedges were not equally on-axis to the recording mic.  Basically a b***s*** "test".

The fan is always on.  And dead silent.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Chuck Simon on April 12, 2013, 09:05:37 AM
Really, that was a pretty crappy comparison.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Geoff Doane on April 12, 2013, 02:07:08 PM
Basically a b***s*** "test".

The fan is always on.  And dead silent.

Is it still silent when the b***s*** hits it?  ;D

GTD
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Kevin McDonough on April 14, 2013, 07:40:14 PM
The RCF NX series definitely made the wish list, but my budget is lower than that.  It's the marginally better speaker, but I also ended up with a db Technologies speaker like Ryan.  I take delivery of them this week from a local dealer who cut me an offer I couldn't refuse so I'll have 6 or 8 of the Flexsys FM12's by midweek.  I think I'd rather have the RCF's long run, but I don't do enough really high output gigs that the Flexsys won't keep up.  Maybe someday I'll get around to DIY'ing something with the better RCF driver they have with the 1.4" exit on the coax.


Can I ask how you found these?  I've been looking at them also for small live gigs that don't justify bigger wedges and amp racks etc.

k

Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Chris Whelan on April 15, 2013, 10:33:29 AM
Aww man I'd love to buy a pair of those Altos, but in the crowded venues we play, the inputs are a deal killer :(
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on April 15, 2013, 11:07:04 AM
Aww man I'd love to buy a pair of those Altos, but in the crowded venues we play, the inputs are a deal killer :(

Have you no imagination at all?  If you're worried about the input cables protruding and getting whacked, make/buy some right-angle connectors.  Both XLR and IEC come in that configuration.  And in a "crowded venue", the smaller the footprint, the better.  The Alto is as small as they get for wedges.  If any wedges at all are too much for the floor space, go with side-washes or IEM's.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Jon C Thomas on April 15, 2013, 03:23:59 PM
I would not put a lot of faith in that utube bit. Unless you are looking for guitar speakers. The dude was hating on the Altos from the gitgo! For 3 times the price perhaps you should A/B shootout 2 Altos to 1 RCF? I have never heard either but I would trust the folks here way more than some not-to-good-guitar-playing-hack with 2 much $$$ & time on his hands :D


He also removed my comment questioning the logic of comparing a $300 monitor to a $1300 one. :o
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mike Reigh on April 15, 2013, 07:10:50 PM
There is at least one eBay seller that has some in stock with the same price + free shipping as Amazon.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: John Lackner on April 19, 2013, 12:23:53 AM
Try the Carvin TRx 12n. 12" coax  with duratec coating.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Tim Weaver on April 19, 2013, 02:19:08 AM
Try the Carvin TRx 12n. 12" coax  with duratec coating.

Why would I do that? It's a $100 more than the alto and it's not powered. Plus Carvin is not exactly a rider-friendly name either....
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 19, 2013, 09:11:18 PM
Why would I do that? It's a $100 more than the alto and it's not powered. Plus Carvin is not exactly a rider-friendly name either....
If you're looking for an inexpensive passive coaxial and don't need rider friendly then it may just fit the bill.  Odd though.  Description page lists it as a 60x40 pattern which reminds me of the RCF coaxial drivers, but the specs page says 80 degree conical which definitely isn't an rcf coaxial.

Edit correction, 60x40 is like whatever db Tech put in the FM12.  All the RCF coaxials are 60 degree conical.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 26, 2013, 01:19:38 PM

Can I ask how you found these?  I've been looking at them also for small live gigs that don't justify bigger wedges and amp racks etc.

k
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,143648.0.html (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,143648.0.html)
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 30, 2013, 03:09:24 PM
Thanks everyone for the discussion.

I ended up ordering three RCF NX 10-SMAs.  We should be meeting up in the States in about 3 more weeks, I'm anxious to hear them. 

If they're too bass shy as bass/drum monitors I already have a passive Eden bass monitor (discontinued) that works pretty well and I haven't been able to sell my other 6 monitors yet so I can always pull out the NX550Ps when I need a bit more bass.  Actually a Yorkville NX550P over an NX200 sub makes a decent, semi compact budget drum rig.  Well semi-compact for a drum monitor...
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: George Dougherty on April 30, 2013, 03:40:45 PM
Thanks everyone for the discussion.

I ended up ordering three RCF NX 10-SMAs.  We should be meeting up in the States in about 3 more weeks, I'm anxious to hear them. 

If they're too bass shy as bass/drum monitors I already have a passive Eden bass monitor (discontinued) that works pretty well and I haven't been able to sell my other 6 monitors yet so I can always pull out the NX550Ps when I need a bit more bass.  Actually a Yorkville NX550P over an NX200 sub makes a decent, semi compact budget drum rig.  Well semi-compact for a drum monitor...
The RCF are slightly higher in output over their Flexsys distant cousins for the same driver size. For drummers with good control and dynamics you're probably good. For anyone else, the Yorkville is probably better to have on hand.  I've thought about maybe adding a powered sub under the Flexsys for high output drum monitor needs.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: David Buckley on May 14, 2013, 12:02:14 AM
I always evaluate my PA speakers by playing electric guitar with a distortion patch through them........NOT.

You're going to see a lot more of it though.  Distorted guitar through "PA" speakers.

Theres a quiet revolution going on whereby guitarists are trading in the Marshall stacks for "modelling" setups.  The modelling setup goes DI straight to PA, and for on-stage monitoring the guitarist has what they are calling a FRFR speaker - "Full range, full response".  Usually a wedge, and aimed in the right place, so the stage wash situation is improved with these setups.  The QSC active boxes seem to be popular with this crowd, but I guess a lower cost option would appeal too.

Now I can almost feel Bob Leonard scowling at me from in front of his antique tweeds...
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mike Pyle on May 14, 2013, 03:06:55 AM
The RCF are slightly higher in output over their Flexsys distant cousins for the same driver size. For drummers with good control and dynamics you're probably good. For anyone else, the Yorkville is probably better to have on hand.  I've thought about maybe adding a powered sub under the Flexsys for high output drum monitor needs.

Having just tested some out in the warehouse, I'm pretty sure the NX10SMA will outrun a NX55P. It has a marketing sticker on the grill that says it will do 127dB and I believe it.
Title: Re: Small, light powered monitors
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 18, 2013, 08:43:08 PM
Having just tested some out in the warehouse, I'm pretty sure the NX10SMA will outrun a NX55P. It has a marketing sticker on the grill that says it will do 127dB and I believe it.

Mike, Are those mine you tested?  I am anxiously awaiting their arrival.  My concern about using them on drums is the fairly rapid rolloff of low freqs.  I'll be reshipping them in 3 more weeks, then I'll run my own tests in early July and post back.