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 11 
 on: Yesterday at 09:13:08 pm 
Started by kendallhadden - Last post by Caleb Dueck
The old Mini's didnt, but the newest price list shows both types of poles as options, on both the Mini and Mini 15.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


 12 
 on: Yesterday at 09:12:13 pm 
Started by Magnus Andersson - Last post by Jeff Lelko
The loudspeaker will not be on a stand, they are directly on the floor and rather big (the box PA 252 ECO MKII, hope I don't violate any forum terms with "advertising"). I hear your concerns, and you add factors I haven't thought of which is great. We will play rather short sets of 45 minutes so could adjust if it has vibrated anything after each set. Also I could just simply try it out when rehearsing how it works and determine whether it's safe to use or not. But yeah the vibrations just might cause enough problems with the "guts" as you say so that it might not be worth it even if I can do it in a safe way.

Nope, you can certainly name the products you're using here, and doing so makes offering advice much easier.  The rules in that regard have to do with dealers and manufacturers of products inserting their product into suggestions when it's not warranted.  You're fine :)

I mean realistically, you'll probably be fine - just keep an eye on things.  Given that this is PROsoundweb, many of us aren't okay giving or taking advice that will "probably be fine" - we like to do it right given that for many of us our jobs and paychecks rely on getting it right the first time. 

Is there anything you have in mind?

Martin Macs use the quarter-turn fasteners, so if I had to mount these on top of speakers, I'd either build some sort of vibration isolation plate that can also serve to bolt the fixture to the speaker.  That way there is no possibility the unit can rattle off the speaker or be pushed over.  You could also drill some cups into the top of the speaker that align with the unit's feet - not ideal but better than nothing.  Again, most likely nothing will go wrong with just setting it up there, but the consequences of being mistaken wouldn't be worth it to me.  The best option is to build a truss totem using a base plate, some box truss, and a top plate.  You drill the top plate so that you can bolt the fixture onto it, and you ballast the base to keep things stable.  That way you keep your sound and lights separate, and can also put your speakers and lights in the best locations for the purposes that they serve.  Just my two cents, and you can see no shortage of people putting movers on speakers - I'm just not one of them.

Since I'll have them on the floor I won't really need any clamps right? Safety cables do you mean with electricity then or? I've calculated power consumptions so should be on the clear with that. What do you mean with insurance? Would I need something special for lights? If there's a fire or anything that goes on the house insurance right?

If everything is legitimately on the floor then no, you don't need clamps or safety cables.  On speakers (if you must), no clamps, but you'll want specialty rigging if possible as mentioned above, and I'd still safety cable it if I can find something reasonable to tie off to.  Safety cables are designed to arrest a falling light fixture should its clamps or rigging fail.  These keep you from killing people.  Your lights have a point in the base that's used for this purpose (it's in the manual - seriously, read it, and keep reading it until you understand it - there's a lot of good information in there). 

Glad to hear you've planned ahead for power consumption.  Yes, insurance is for liability.  I'm nearly certain that you don't live in the United States and thus your laws might be different, but at least over here it's strongly recommended to have liability insurance when performing or supporting an event.  In fact, it's been nearly a decade since the last time I worked an event that I didn't have to submit a COI for.  In this business things go very bad very fast.  At least over here having insurance is basically mandatory once you get to a certain level, but it's desirable and highly recommended for any live performer regardless of "level".  There are lots of good threads here that discuss this if you're interested.

What is palettes?

A palette in the lighting world refers to making recordings of specific moving light attributes for use either in larger programming sequences or for busking (making it up live in real time during the show).  Palettes are usually broken into specific types of attributes such as color, beam, and focus (pan/tilt).  This can help to group attributes among different lights or be used in programming to allow for easy modification.  Let me try to give an example:

Let's say we want to make our moving lights trace a box.  Well, I can do that by programming every attribute of every moving light into four cues for each of the four points in the box.  That's great, and it'll work.  Now what happens when I move to a different venue?  I want my lights to still trace a box, but I want those corners of the box to be in a slightly different place.  Using the "keyframe" approach described above, I'd literally have to reprogram my show since the four cues also contain information about each unit's shutter, color wheel, gobo wheel, etc.  This is time consuming and often not practical to do in a short period of time.  Instead, let's say my "box corners" are defined by Focus Palette 1, 2, 3, and 4.  My chase just tells me to cycle through the four focus palettes, regardless of what the values are.  That way, when I come in to a venue I just have to redefine or "update" the four palettes, which I can do in a minute or two, and all my other programming will automatically track along.  This is MUCH easier to implement once you wrap your head around it, and this is the technique used by almost every lighting professional when working with large numbers of moving lights.

So a box might not be too impressive, but let's expand this to a real-world situation - your band.  We'll assume we have a singer, guitarist, bass player, keys, and drummer.  That's 5 areas of focus, so we'll make them Focus Palettes 1 - 5.  Once I get my rig hung, all I have to do is tell my lights where they need to point for those 5 areas of focus, and again, all my other programming will fall into line automatically.  Once you start taking into account other sequences that use colors, gobos, prisms, shutters, etc., you can see how much time this technique saves since you don't have to now reprogram EVERYTHING just because your drummer set up 5ft too far downstage.  That's the gist of it.  Your board can't really do this to its full extent, but if you decide to upgrade to a proper hardware console or a software package, this will be a big concept that you'll want to master.  Hope this helps!

 13 
 on: Yesterday at 07:50:16 pm 
Started by Magnus Andersson - Last post by Magnus Andersson
Weight and balance is only one concern with putting moving lights on top of a loudspeaker.  How are you going to secure the light so that it doesn't vibrate off the speaker over the course of a few hours?  Steve Garris often shows a very creative solution he uses for attaching some Par 38s to a speaker via its rigging points, but doing this to a 70 pound moving light is a whole other issue.  While tops don't vibrate like subs, it's still enough to potentially cause problems.  Additionally, the "guts" of the light won't like vibration either.  Over time this can cause wiring harnesses to wiggle loose, lamps/sockets to have issues, etc.  If that wasn't enough, the momentum of the head swinging around imparts enough force to move both the fixture and the speaker if not mounted securely.  If your speakers are all ground stacked there are ways to get past this if you really want to, but speakers on a stand with a 70 pound moving light on top - forget about it.  Just not worth it in my opinion.  This would work much better on a truss totem (full box truss) with sufficient base/ballast. 

Uh, you do have a plan don't you?  As mentioned higher up, setting up lights like this isn't a trivial undertaking.  Rigging fixtures of this weight isn't something to go in with a "wing it" attitude.  You'll need to have the right clamps, safety cables, and other necessary rigging hardware handy and ready to go.  How about power?  Do you have insurance?

This is where the artistic part of lighting design comes in.  How "active" of a design do you want?  I'd suggest watching the lighting design of some of your favorite bands.  Take note as to how the lighting either fades into the background or stands out as part of the act - two different techniques in there - you'll want to master both. 

In terms of actual programming, I leverage palettes in all of my work.  It's the best way to have flexibility from day to day yet still not have to reprogram the entire show from night to night.  You controller cannot do this to such an extent, but you can still layer your programming.  What this means is to have some chases that are pan/tilt only.  Others are just color.  Others are just beam (gobo, prism, iris, etc.).  By then playing back and varying several chases "on top of each other", you can have a very diverse set of looks while only using about a half-dozen actual chases/sequences programmed.  Good luck!

The loudspeaker will not be on a stand, they are directly on the floor and rather big (the box PA 252 ECO MKII, hope I don't violate any forum terms with "advertising"). I hear your concerns, and you add factors I haven't thought of which is great. We will play rather short sets of 45 minutes so could adjust if it has vibrated anything after each set. Also I could just simply try it out when rehearsing how it works and determine whether it's safe to use or not. But yeah the vibrations just might cause enough problems with the "guts" as you say so that it might not be worth it even if I can do it in a safe way.

"If your speakers are all ground stacked there are ways to get past this if you really want to" Is there anything you have in mind?

Since I'll have them on the floor I won't really need any clamps right? Safety cables do you mean with electricity then or? I've calculated power consumptions so should be on the clear with that. What do you mean with insurance? Would I need something special for lights? If there's a fire or anything that goes on the house insurance right?

Yes I will watch some for inspiration but I have some ideas myself aswell. What is palettes? Tried googling but didn't get any sense of of it. Yeah will get several different kinds of chasers that will make it feel varied. Maybe I will make lighting themes for a few key songs but will more do general programmes.

Thanks for your input :)


 14 
 on: Yesterday at 07:49:57 pm 
Started by Dustin Campbell - Last post by Dustin Campbell
Hey All- Dumb question here - How do I get a little reverb in to the mix 1,2 etc? I found some stuff on the web and read through the manual but still can't figure it out? I just was programing my scene for a show tomorrow and I have all the channels named and basic monitor mixes - I'm still new to this board- Any help is much appreciated ;D -- or is there an easier way to do it on the iPad app?

 15 
 on: Yesterday at 07:35:19 pm 
Started by Magnus Andersson - Last post by Magnus Andersson
Other popular "looks" include "fly ins" and "fly outs" and "ballyhoos".  With a fly in or out,, the lights start in a focused position and fanned out (or in) and sweep up or down to a new position up over the heads of the audience or the reverse and fly back down to the stage position.  A ballyhoo has each light moving in a pattern (often a figure eight) somewhat randomly.  With follow spots, they are focused down on the crowd to excite them.  With floor lights, the pattern usually on the ceiling.

If you are trying to do "aerial" effects with light (where you see the beams), a haze machine is really needed.

Sadly don't have permission to use a hazer at our next gig due to them being very careful with fire alarm. Hmm is it possible to make an eight-pattern with setting different static points in a chase in some way, or do I need to use software for this?

 16 
 on: Yesterday at 07:26:32 pm 
Started by Jack Arnott - Last post by Ray Aberle
Both, register and renew.
For some reason, very few registrars support the .audio TLD. It looks like the price ranges from $300-$500 USD.

Yeah, I think mine (kelcema.audio) is up to like $15 per year or so. It's getting brutal.

-Ray

 17 
 on: Yesterday at 07:17:29 pm 
Started by Jack Arnott - Last post by Jeremy Young
Does anyone here remember about 8 years ago when I posted that I was changing the company name to: "Assistance Audio and Associates", just so I could have the slogan, "Now with Twice as much Ass!"

My mom thought it was much funnier than anyone here did.


Well, I thought it was funny.... too bad you can't hear me laughing at home unless I post a reply, so here's that reply.


I used to be in a band called The Day He Quit.  When we came up with the name, I never imagined how hard it would be to enunciate those words in a loud bar setting.  TDHQ quickly became our go-to.  Pretty sure people thought I was in some kind of pyramid scheme anytime I handed out my e-mail address. 


Sorry for the swerve, I can't come up with any useful suggestions for you.

 18 
 on: Yesterday at 07:03:19 pm 
Started by Magnus Andersson - Last post by Jeff Lelko
Hmm I might have to reevaluate this then. Although the loudspeakers isn't close to where any audience will be so it's highly unlikely anyone will be able to tip over the loudspeaker

Weight and balance is only one concern with putting moving lights on top of a loudspeaker.  How are you going to secure the light so that it doesn't vibrate off the speaker over the course of a few hours?  Steve Garris often shows a very creative solution he uses for attaching some Par 38s to a speaker via its rigging points, but doing this to a 70 pound moving light is a whole other issue.  While tops don't vibrate like subs, it's still enough to potentially cause problems.  Additionally, the "guts" of the light won't like vibration either.  Over time this can cause wiring harnesses to wiggle loose, lamps/sockets to have issues, etc.  If that wasn't enough, the momentum of the head swinging around imparts enough force to move both the fixture and the speaker if not mounted securely.  If your speakers are all ground stacked there are ways to get past this if you really want to, but speakers on a stand with a 70 pound moving light on top - forget about it.  Just not worth it in my opinion.  This would work much better on a truss totem (full box truss) with sufficient base/ballast. 

...but I'll see when I get there...

Uh, you do have a plan don't you?  As mentioned higher up, setting up lights like this isn't a trivial undertaking.  Rigging fixtures of this weight isn't something to go in with a "wing it" attitude.  You'll need to have the right clamps, safety cables, and other necessary rigging hardware handy and ready to go.  How about power?  Do you have insurance?

Now I feel like I'm ready to start programming everything since I've gotten everything to work as it should and sync well. Do you have any general tips for the programming part? Since we won't have a designated light technician I have to preprogram some chasers.

This is where the artistic part of lighting design comes in.  How "active" of a design do you want?  I'd suggest watching the lighting design of some of your favorite bands.  Take note as to how the lighting either fades into the background or stands out as part of the act - two different techniques in there - you'll want to master both. 

In terms of actual programming, I leverage palettes in all of my work.  It's the best way to have flexibility from day to day yet still not have to reprogram the entire show from night to night.  You controller cannot do this to such an extent, but you can still layer your programming.  What this means is to have some chases that are pan/tilt only.  Others are just color.  Others are just beam (gobo, prism, iris, etc.).  By then playing back and varying several chases "on top of each other", you can have a very diverse set of looks while only using about a half-dozen actual chases/sequences programmed.  Good luck!

 19 
 on: Yesterday at 06:51:31 pm 
Started by Mac Kerr - Last post by Pete Erskine
As we get more signal on networks I think we'll see more bi-directional SFPs in switches to save fiber strands. As 10G switches become more mainstream we will really be able to pile a lot of stuff on the net. Dante uses about 100MB/48ch, Helixnet runs 24ch of comm in 100MB, Riedel Bolero antennas require a 1GB network but I think it's only about 100GB of bandwidth for a good sized system.
Mac

I along with Josh Flower who introduced them to me, have been using the bidirectional SFPs all the time.  For Riedel Nodes the A is in upstream and the B type in Downstream and with the Freespeak Splitters we put the A in the base and B in the splitter.  It is more reliable as well too. 

 20 
 on: Yesterday at 06:39:19 pm 
Started by Debbie Dunkley - Last post by Tim Hite
At 6'4" I'm oversize for UPS and have to ship LTL freight. It's inconvenient so I normally just send out the gear via UPS for a demo.


I see you are in CA - I'm in North Carolina - so a demo would be tough but I appreciate the offer Tim thanks.

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