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 11 
 on: Today at 11:52:40 am 
Started by Taylor Phillips - Last post by Brian Adams
I mic the stage for our local community theatre, and I've done it basically the same way for a few years now. Their proscenium opening is 50' across and 18' tall, with an installed center cluster that's not amazing.

I space 8 PCC160's across the apron, 7-8' apart. I'll try to get some upstage of the proscenium if I can, but that's not always practical with moving scenery. I also hang 2 rows of 5 condensers over the stage, trimmed at 14'-16', spaced 8' apart. It takes a fair amount of EQ to make it sound decent, especially the PCC's, but it actually works pretty well. It's a lot easier now that I just drop an X32 in there instead of using their analog Mackie.

 12 
 on: Today at 11:51:49 am 
Started by Ivan Beaver - Last post by Tim McCulloch
Has it ever been used for an actual music event?  Or was it just a labor of love?

It was proof of concept for a TLA government agency that needed portable ELF.  It wasn't intended to be used for musical performance but I'm sure the DSL guys put a J-series horn on either side of it and played some tunes  ;)

 13 
 on: Today at 11:41:39 am 
Started by RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS - Last post by Mark Wilkinson
Admittedly it's early morning math so no warranties are expressed or implied, but for 100dBSPL at 30 meters I get about 130dBSPL at 1 meter.  That's 6dB down from the continuous spec of a single TH118, which should be more like 425 watts continuous + some subjective peak value; maybe a couple thousand watts peak as seen by the generator, but probably less due to amplifier energy storage.  RE distortion and power compression - we're 12dB down from the rated peak value of a single TH118 - about 6% of the electrical power handling of the speaker.  That is FAR from power compression/ excessive distortion.

Headroom is nice and all, but it ain't free, and the transport size, weight, and setup time seem to be extremely overkill for the application.  My typical client for that situation would also probably prefer to not see a mountain of speakers, either.

I've done the local professional basketball arena with 4 TH118 for moderate music, and hip hop a couple times in a 100' x 220' shed, again with 4 TH118.  It might have been nice to have a couple more boxes for the 20,000 seat basketball arena, (not so much the hip hop shows) but that would have radically changed the logistics of the show, and driven the costs up quite a bit for no practical benefit.

YMMV, etcetera.

P.S. - I will say that you can trip a 20A breaker with an ITech HD 12000 driving a pair of TH118 at full-tilt-boogie.  To the sensitivity point above, I have had no problems running two ITHD12Ks each with a pair of TH118 off the same 208v 20A circuit.

Your early morning math looks good to me :)    130dB at 1 meter works.

I do question the value of the TH-118's continuous spec though. 
Maybe it's a measured spec, but it looks like the rating is just derived from the 108 dB 2.83v 4 ohm sensitivity taken up to the driver manufacturer's 1700 watt spec.
And IMHO, peak means nothing, at least nothing more than the nowadays obligatory marketing +6dB, ...

Which all adds to me, that 130dB is 5dB down from an extrapolated continuous rating,
and almost certainly will have some power compression and distortion rearing it's head, running at that level.

I've been trying to learn to take good distortion measurements, and correlate the measurements to when I think SQ begins to dive.
So far, it's looking pretty tough to keep SQ once within 6dB of continuous, built on measured sensitivity extrapolated to AES power ratings.
My guess is compression has to start appearing within 6dB too.   

Not trying to say the TH-118 doesn't work fine in the real world at 130dB, and not trying to minimize the practicality of using what's sufficient...
...not trying to say any of that at all...

Just being a fan of more boxes, run less hard, when luxury allows....

Also, to get back to the OP.... I love watching the PLD4.5's current monitoring during shows...always surprisingly low...although I've yet to watch the amp drive any subs....

 14 
 on: Today at 11:07:46 am 
Started by Kevin Wilkinson - Last post by Joel Schroer
Joel - Please fix your display name to your real name.  This requirement is stated when you signed up.

Scott and Group,
Whoops! My apologies! (It was a late night and my brain was a little 'staticy'... ;-) )
I've gone in and made the change, thank you!

Joel Schroer

 15 
 on: Today at 10:18:31 am 
Started by Frank Caridi - Last post by Frank Caridi
Frank, there are different degrees of "the right way to do something".  If you keep the volume moderate and turn your 50Hz filter switch on, you'll get through your gig OK; just use your senses to determine if you're close to the redline - listen for distortion, use your nose to smell if the drivers are getting hot, etc. 

That said, a basic active crossover is cheap and pretty simple -
they have full-range inputs from your mixer, and they have outputs marked high and low (and sometimes mids) for your mains.  There may be a couple switches to put in the right place and a crossover point knob, but they're not too bad.

Yes when I was testing out the speakers the other day to see how they sound with my amp I used the 50hz cut off and ran my iPhone thru the input on the amp and I was cranking them and they sound great! Played them for about 45 min to hr around 100db and sounded good! I just want to add bass. So letís say I just suck it up and get powered tops nothing crazy what could you recommend?
And if I do just use my speakers and I buy an active crossover I donít need to buy an amp for the highs and lows and mids? I would just run out of the mixer into the crossover. Out of the crossover into the amp?

 16 
 on: Today at 10:09:36 am 
Started by Frank Caridi - Last post by TJ (Tom) Cornish
My problem is I donít know how to use a active cross over or how hard it is to set it up. But I have a family members party combing up and they want some music so I figure I give them some sound. I I just buy one of those active subwoofers will it work? I will eventually get power tops but right now I canít afford to after I get a subwoofer.
Frank, there are different degrees of "the right way to do something".  If you keep the volume moderate and turn your 50Hz filter switch on, you'll get through your gig OK; just use your senses to determine if you're close to the redline - listen for distortion, use your nose to smell if the drivers are getting hot, etc. 

That said, a basic active crossover is cheap and pretty simple - they have full-range inputs from your mixer, and they have outputs marked high and low (and sometimes mids) for your mains.  There may be a couple switches to put in the right place and a crossover point knob, but they're not too bad.

 17 
 on: Today at 10:02:31 am 
Started by Frank Caridi - Last post by Frank Caridi
No... not the same.
 None of these active subs have a full crossover built-in so you would still need an external crossover to do this correctly, as a result you may be inclined to go with a passive sub and external amp/crossover combo at this time. If you do buy an active sub then it will make most sense to also buy the matching tops when the time comes to upgrade those.
My problem is I donít know how to use a active cross over or how hard it is to set it up. But I have a family members party combing up and they want some music so I figure I give them some sound. I I just buy one of those active subwoofers will it work? I will eventually get power tops but right now I canít afford to after I get a subwoofer.

 18 
 on: Today at 09:59:58 am 
Started by Scott Holtzman - Last post by TJ (Tom) Cornish
Yep, and it looks like you'll be able to drive this with a tablet as well right out of the box - no additional networking equipment needed.  If more brands follow this trend we might see more offerings along the lines of the lighting equivalent to the Behringer X Air and Soundcraft Ui Series.  It'd probably be a welcomed upgrade to those using Luminaire...or drive the Luminaire developers to add the professional features that are currently missing.

And that's the downside to tablet control - with no flying faders I can see easily misinterpreting the status of the console.  Like many, I only use tablet control of my Congo Kid for focusing and making minor adjustments from a different point of view, but looking to the Chauvet market, many may want to drive the show via tablet and only use the console surface as a backup, much like how I use my A&H Qu-Pac.  The thing is, I see no reason why flying faders has yet to really penetrate the sub-$10,000 level of console.  Given the explosion of $2-4000 digital mixers, all with motorized faders, there's no reason that lighting can't follow suit.  At least with lighting, things are 100% digital - no preamps or stageboxes/mixracks to drive up a system's price. 

As I think we all know, the budget/MI level of consumer drives the majority of this market based on where the money is, so if more MI-level users start getting into lighting and demanding more features from their products (that are now more affordable), we might see a complete overhaul of mid-level to entry level pro desks much like what the X32 did to sound back in the 2012-14 timeframe.  There's been a tremendous gap in product offerings at this price point for some time, so we'll see what happens!  If I had to guess, I'd say Chauvet is one of those companies that could just push such a revolution.  Time will tell!
Agreed - the price gulf between full featured desks and their software counterparts - $10,000+ vs. almost free - is silly.  There are some wings that partially bridge the gap - Martin/Elation M-Touch, MA PC wings, etc., but there is no self-contained desk that's reasonably full-featured yet.  It will happen, but I'm not convinced the Colorsouce/Cognito or these products are it quite yet due to pretty significant feature limitations compared to the real platforms.

 19 
 on: Today at 09:50:53 am 
Started by Frank Caridi - Last post by Paul G. OBrien
the amp that I use to run the Samsonís have a 50hz cut off so is it safe to say that that will be okay?
No... not the same.

Or just go with an active subwoofer so I can use the subwoofer to set the crossover and send letís say 100hz to the tops and everything lower to the subwoofer?
None of these active subs have a full crossover built-in so you would still need an external crossover to do this correctly, as a result you may be inclined to go with a passive sub and external amp/crossover combo at this time. If you do buy an active sub then it will make most sense to also buy the matching tops when the time comes to upgrade those.

 20 
 on: Today at 09:50:42 am 
Started by Frank Caridi - Last post by TJ (Tom) Cornish
Thank you! Yes that does make sense! I can go cheaper with the subwoofer and get samsons 18in subwoofer but I wasnít crazy about the subwoofer! The speakers I do like. But my question for get the passive subwoofer cause I see Iím going to have to buy a lot more gear to get that and I just donít have the know how yet to dabble with that. My question is if I get the ETX 18sp it has a lot of DSP and functionality but if I go with that I can set the crossover in there to send the 100hz and higher to my tops is this correct? Cause with the Qsc I donít see that option.
This would make my life a lot simpler if the subwoofer has the crossover built in!
First of all, for 99% of users, a self-powered system is the way to go.  Apples to apples, they are cheaper than buying speakers plus amps, sound better, are better protected, and easier to use.  There are specific use cases where this may not be the case, but for your purposes, I would strongly suggest some kind of self-powered speaker.

Neither the SRX818sp or ETX-18SP have a output that is crossed over.  All of the DSP options for these and most other similar speakers is for their internal use, as they were designed to be used with the matching main speakers which also have DSP built-in.

I would not let that be a major deterrent.  You can buy a used DBX 223 crossover or similar for $25-$50 that will get the job done in the short term.

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