ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Chris Edwards on September 04, 2013, 10:12:46 AM

Title: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Chris Edwards on September 04, 2013, 10:12:46 AM
I know this product seems to be a touchy subject with many people but I am wondering if anyone owns the unit or has tried it out?  I am mainly looking for feedback on the build quality, sound quality and effects quality as well as their usefulness.

Any information is appreciated.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Ryan Grandusky on September 04, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
A local audio/visual install company I often work with installed one in a church back in September for a FOH console and they seem to love it. I have never used one nor have I heard it but those that I have talked to who do use it (not sound guys) love the easy to use interface because it is similar to working with garage band on a computer which they do often.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Chris Edwards on September 04, 2013, 02:31:22 PM
A local audio/visual install company I often work with installed one in a church back in September for a FOH console and they seem to love it. I have never used one nor have I heard it but those that I have talked to who do use it (not sound guys) love the easy to use interface because it is similar to working with garage band on a computer which they do often.

Ryan,

Thanks for the info.  This seems in line to other information I have read.  The main problem is that most of the reviews are coming from end users who more speak of the ease of use rather than sound quality or effect quality.  I suppose if the end user is happy then that is the point but I would like to know more.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on September 04, 2013, 03:36:11 PM
I suspect micro inspection of path specifications is missing the point of a new different mixing paradigm. The more important question IMO is about mix quality and that is hugely subjective.

I am enthusiastic about this product without ever being in the same room or looking very closely. I see this as a first step toward where we will end up rather than final destination.

JR
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Ryan Grandusky on September 05, 2013, 02:28:19 PM
Some additional info after speaking with the installer mentioned above. He may be installing a second one for another church.

Per my conversation with him it seems that this mixer is best suited for situations where the person mixing has limited to no audio experience. For a seasoned engineer this mixer may drive you nuts. The sonic quality this console is not lacking in any way and appears to be on par with other popular mixers being installed such as the X32 and DL1608.

The effects are OK, not great, but not terrible either and are very usable for light reverbs and delay. He heavily recommended using a foot switch to turn the effects on and off due to how the effects are handled/routed on this mixer.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Don Boomer on September 05, 2013, 07:22:18 PM
He heavily recommended using a foot switch to turn the effects on and off due to how the effects are handled/routed on this mixer.

That's one way to do it.  I usually assign all effects to a subgroup.  From there it's a one button push to mute them all as a group.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 05, 2013, 07:57:28 PM
I suspect micro inspection of path specifications is missing the point of a new different mixing paradigm. The more important question IMO is about mix quality and that is hugely subjective.

I am enthusiastic about this product without ever being in the same room or looking very closely. I see this as a first step toward where we will end up rather than final destination.

JR
I have a feeling that this little mixer doesn't get the press it really deserves mostly because Line 6 has dared to challenge the paradigm we have been using for mixers forever.

It is good to hear that it has a good sound to it.  Thanks for the post Ryan.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Brian Jones on September 05, 2013, 11:33:33 PM
It would seem to me, from what I know, that Line-6 is intentionally aiming their products at users who want a more plug and play solution, but a step up from say plugging a mic into the back of a K12. The entire StageSource lineup is designed to automate processes. The speakers have mics in them IIRC to faciliate easy setup via DSP that receives feedback (not the kind sound engineers hate) and makes automated adjustments. 

Those who are used to using SMAART and a rack of GEQ, PEQ, and other tools to manually do the same work, will probably find the results less than what they can achieve manually. This is much like the divide between automatic and manual transmissions in cars. For a long time, it was a given that a decent driver could outperform an automatic transmission. Today with semi autos and super fast shifting auto transmissions, it is becoming debatable whether or not even the best drivers could outperform a top of the line auto/semi-auto setup. I think the same will happen to this industry eventually. One could argue we are already there if you consider tools like SMAART to be the equivalent of the semi-auto.

Given my level of expertise (tiny compared to many in this forum) I could be completely mistaken.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 06, 2013, 12:12:15 AM
I had a good look at one about a month ago and was more than impressed with the simplicity, capability, and the sound. The entire system, speakers and board, are as stated, designed to be used as a no brainer solution by people who know little about sound, but expect good to great results. It would actually be a great board for installation in smaller clubs where the village idiot is often behind the board, but don't sell the solution short as there are advanced features that can be accessed as well.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Mark Fulwider on November 11, 2013, 09:20:33 AM
I know this product seems to be a touchy subject with many people but I am wondering if anyone owns the unit or has tried it out?  I am mainly looking for feedback on the build quality, sound quality and effects quality as well as their usefulness.

Any information is appreciated.

I own one! So far...I love it! It is very easy to get great sound from it! Very simple and straight forward user interface! I am in a small four piece Christian band and everyone in the band loves it! Used to a have a peavey system and the line 6 blows it out of the water. I also have the stage scape speakers...an l3m,l3t and an l2m and they are also fantastic and a great compliment to the m20d. The iPad remote control functionality pushes this system WAY over the top of anything like it.With the iPad control you can basically walk around the performance venue with a virtual m20d in your hand and tweak EVERY function of the board remotely. Yes, it is VERY different than a conventional mixer, but I actually love it BECAUSE it is different.Line 6 has taken complex mix engineer logic and made it simple for a musician to use and get a great sound very quickly! No, I don't work for line 6! Just a very happy customer. Hope that helps ya! :-)
Title: Posting Rules
Post by: Mac Kerr on November 11, 2013, 10:20:23 AM
So far...I love it!

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
Title: Re: Posting Rules
Post by: Misu Constantinescu on January 27, 2014, 05:43:15 AM
Hello. I see there is little info on the subject so I thought to chime in. Longtime reader, first time poster.

I have the M20d since feb 2013 and have used it at least every week sisnce then, including an outdoor tour of 2 months/37 locations in scorching heat, rain, and all the conditions a hot summer has. Also, this winter, every week outside, at temps as low as -10 degrees Celsius. The mixer performed beautifully, we are a band of 3, and the mixer also playes the backing tracks. Initially used it from stage, but after the first show and a little training the FoH guy took the iPad and mixed from the croud. He is a proffesional and trained to work with everything from a digital Yamaha 01R up to the Digico they use on large national shows.

Long story short, he liked the mixer, including the sound. It is a very potent mixer, with a basic interface for nonPros and a complex one, which has detailed clasaic parameters unveiled, foor those who know what it means. So if you need to "get more air" in the voice and have noo ideea how to, you use the basic interface, and if you want to apply 2.5dB of gain at 1Q at 6kHz you use the complex one. It has a few interesting features, as a dynamic eq, which proved interesting in use, and also i liked very much the integrated feedback killer. I am usually not fond of that type of devvice because it usually alters the voice. Weell, this one is monitoring and can use 12 notch filters that it apllies onthefly and we didn't notice a difference in the tone of voice. And the feedback is killed in no time, basically the lead could walk in front of the mains and sing from the public with no fear of feedback. Of course, it's not magical, but it is very effective. A usual chain of effects is like this on the voice: gain-eq-compressor-dynamic eq-deeser-sends of effects, monitor. I should also point out the gain, which is digital, and also automatic, if you set it. It means it monitors constantly the gain, and if you are overloading the input, it lowers the gain to a safer region.

I am very pleased with the purchase, and probably if needed I would buy the speakers as well, but we usually play in locations that already have more than enough. We only have 2 small monitors for me(keys) and the guitarist, 2 RCF 708A, realy small beasts, and an Sennhiser inear for lead vocal. We chose those because of weight, we loath to carry anything heavy, and they provide loads of power. Any other monitor present on stage we use as stagefill.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Ned Ward on January 27, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
I have a feeling that this little mixer doesn't get the press it really deserves mostly because Line 6 has dared to challenge the paradigm we have been using for mixers forever.


If by challenging the paradigm you mean coming out with a mixer with entry-level features and a pro-level price, I'd agree. It's overpriced for the target market so hasn't sold well, hence why it's not getting the press.
Title: Re: Line 6 Stagescape M20d
Post by: Misu Constantinescu on January 27, 2014, 06:18:41 PM
Well, besides only 4 channels for monitoring, I don't really know what would be classified as "entry-level" about this mixer. Preamps sound good, effects are good, the number of channels is enough, interface is usable from stage and from FoH. When you don't want thet interface and want a more classical one, after 1.2 update you can have it. Only thing missing is the row of faders, but that is by design,after a few weeks with it, I don't miss them at all. I could have bought the bigger Behringer, but didn't want the size, and the number of chanels would have been overkill.