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Title: budget piano microphones
Post by: Mike Tinsley on January 30, 2014, 12:14:51 PM
Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on January 30, 2014, 12:23:04 PM
Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.

I just brought a APEX 185 2 pack to try on Grand Piano at a recent gig. They sounded good enough that I didn't bother putting up anything better. Real good value at around $100 for the pair.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Mike Tinsley on January 30, 2014, 03:05:50 PM
I just brought a APEX 185 2 pack to try on Grand Piano at a recent gig. They sounded good enough that I didn't bother putting up anything better. Real good value at around $100 for the pair.

Thanks BJ. since i'm placing one each over the base end of the soundboard for bass frequencies and one at the upper end for treble, did you get full response and dynamics in the mix?
 
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Mike Tinsley on January 30, 2014, 04:37:23 PM
Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.

Also- would the  Rode NT1A- altho a vocal mic by design,
be applicable for piano?
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 30, 2014, 05:49:15 PM
Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.

Hi, Mike...

Do a search for "grand piano" and you'll get more information quicker. 

IMO, positioning is more important than the actual mic choice (there are so many good ones), not only for what and how the sound is picked up but equally important...what is NOT picked up.

No matter what mics are on the strings, I always put a "57 in the hole" to fulfill the principle of "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it".  An SM57 pointed directly into one of the holes in the lyre of the grand will give you a ton of usable sound with almost ZERO bleed.  It'll also let you put the piano in the monitor if needed without fouling things up and feeding back.

Using a carefully balanced blend of a couple of properly placed SDC's backed by the 57 in the hole will give you a very nice palette of sound from which to work.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Mike Tinsley on January 30, 2014, 06:36:24 PM
Hi, Mike...

Do a search for "grand piano" and you'll get more information quicker. 

IMO, positioning is more important than the actual mic choice (there are so many good ones), not only for what and how the sound is picked up but equally important...what is NOT picked up.

No matter what mics are on the strings, I always put a "57 in the hole" to fulfill the principle of "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it".  An SM57 pointed directly into one of the holes in the lyre of the grand will give you a ton of usable sound with almost ZERO bleed.  It'll also let you put the piano in the monitor if needed without fouling things up and feeding back.

Using a carefully balanced blend of a couple of properly placed SDC's backed by the 57 in the hole will give you a very nice palette of sound from which to work.

Thanks DR.
Didn't want to assume a 57 was the ultimate band aid especially
if this guy's used to hi end NY sound types. Did my first show for
them and used a (muffling motion over the mouth) couple of
Audix D12/ D10 placed over lo/ hi string registers. Fortunately
he (award winning NY concert pianist) din pay any attention
to them and several people raved about the piano/ overall mix
which I wrote off to blind luck and resigned myself to do it right
the next time in May after being told I am THE contracted a/v
provider for all subsequent bookings- two so far.
Since you chimed in and have the expertise: SDC's- suggestions?
Previously mentioned Apex 185's? Stagg PGT60's? BluePerception220?
Sterling Audio ST51? Or order/ wait forever for LineAudio OM1&C3?
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Brian Adams on January 30, 2014, 06:50:14 PM
I use two Crown PCC160's, one gaff taped to the lid on the low side aimed across the low strings and one taped to the curve facing down and a little toward the hammers. Placement is critical, of course, and it takes a little midrange EQ, but I can get a really natural piano sound out of them.

This only works with the lid closed, obviously.

PCC160's can be found used but in perfect condition for under $100 each on ebay.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 30, 2014, 07:16:30 PM

Since you chimed in and have the expertise: SDC's- suggestions?


Not for cheap.  Shure KSM141

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Shure+KSM141&Go=Search
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Cailen Waddell on January 30, 2014, 08:29:20 PM
We use a pair of akg c430s, which are IMHO reasonably priced.  They sit on a piece of foam in the crook of the piano doing an XY stereo thing.  It sounds nice to me, another sound guy who is our primary engineer came up with it.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Darin Ulmer on January 30, 2014, 09:57:11 PM
+1 on the KSM141.  A very nice mic.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Jared Koopman on January 31, 2014, 12:58:51 PM
Ive had good success with the AT-Pro37.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on January 31, 2014, 01:59:55 PM
Thanks BJ. since i'm placing one each over the base end of the soundboard for bass frequencies and one at the upper end for treble, did you get full response and dynamics in the mix?
 
I was happy with the sound. I used one high and one low and was able to get a nice balanced tone. Struggled a bit getting enough low end at first, but that was probably more due to placement then the mic. Good rejection of feedback too. Overall great value. Will be trying one on acoustic guitar shortly.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Mike Tinsley on February 02, 2014, 12:04:27 AM
well after much research/ consternation I'm just going to bite the bullet
and pick up a C414. Not sure XLS/ XLII etc but seems to be the go to ldc
best suited for the job. Then a sdc pencil for the hi end. Have to look thru
Marketplace. tks all. 
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Jay Barracato on February 02, 2014, 12:55:29 AM
I would seriously consider a pair of audio technical ATM 450 ( a small diaphragm side address condenser) as a budget rig.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 02, 2014, 08:52:26 AM
well after much research/ consternation I'm just going to bite the bullet
and pick up a C414. Not sure XLS/ XLII etc but seems to be the go to ldc
best suited for the job. Then a sdc pencil for the hi end. Have to look thru
Marketplace. tks all.

While the C414 has a generally good reputation, and for the price I have them quite far down on my list sound-wise.  If you're going to spend that much money, get yourself a matched set of good SDC's.  Earlier I recommended the KSM141 which I consider as good or better than the 414...and you can get a pair for the cost of the AKG.

In the long run I'd recommend purchasing a matched pair over a single mic.  The flexibility and utility inherent in pairs over singles will be much better use of your funds.  Like you, I chose LDC's in the beginning, but experience has taught me that for working with grand piano in ensembles, LDC's are not the best choice.

Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 02, 2014, 01:31:02 PM
While the C414 has a generally good reputation, and for the price I have them quite far down on my list sound-wise.  If you're going to spend that much money, get yourself a matched set of good SDC's.  Earlier I recommended the KSM141 which I consider as good or better than the 414...and you can get a pair for the cost of the AKG.

In the long run I'd recommend purchasing a matched pair over a single mic.  The flexibility and utility inherent in pairs over singles will be much better use of your funds.  Like you, I chose LDC's in the beginning, but experience has taught me that for working with grand piano in ensembles, LDC's are not the best choice.

Mike, you might not believe in Peter Pan... but I suggest you believe Mr Rees.  A matched pair of SDCs will benefit you more, both in the piano and for other uses.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on February 02, 2014, 01:48:21 PM
Mike, you might not believe in Peter Pan... but I suggest you believe Mr Rees.  A matched pair of SDCs will benefit you more, both in the piano and for other uses.

Mike...

You should buy whatever you decide upon from Tim.  He's a very smart guy... ;D
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 02, 2014, 02:37:45 PM
Mike...

You should buy whatever you decide upon from Tim.  He's a very smart guy... ;D

The only thing I sell is my time.  Somehow that's still legal in Kansas so long as none of the parties are gratified by the experience. 

Lenny Bruce had a joke (c. 1963) about a Shriner attending a convention in New York.  He told the bellman "get me a $100 whore".  The bellmen sent a writer.

And you of all people should know that Microphone Accumulation Syndrome (a subset of Gear Acquisition Syndrome) is an "acquire-only" problem. ;)
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Tim Padrick on February 02, 2014, 10:56:04 PM
AT Pro37 - works on almost anything.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Sammy Barr on February 03, 2014, 08:19:41 AM
Plus one on the pro 37.
Title: Re: budget piano microphones
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on February 03, 2014, 01:53:37 PM
Plus one on the pro 37.
+2  .... very versatile mic.