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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Kevin_Tisdall on March 02, 2018, 03:57:59 PM
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If this doesn't belong here I apologize and please feel free to move it.
I'm interested in the RCF NX 12-SMA wedges and wondering if anyone nearby or in Connecticut has one or more I could listen to? I'm in Milford/New Haven area and hoping not to have to drive through NYC to the RCF-USA site in Edison NJ.
--Kevin
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If you make it to Houston I would give you a listen.
But I have several and they are great. Probably can’t beat the quality for the price. I use them on guitars,keys and bass. Great gain before feedback (in fact I haven’t even come close to that point).
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It will be worth your effort to get your ears on these wedges.
I have been using them for monitors and "speakers on stands" for over a year and they sound great!
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I'm in Montana.... if you take a terribly wrong turn, give a shout. :)
We use them regularly on many of our shows with national acts.
Great value, low profile and they sound good.
My only complaints are that the paint could be more robust so get cases or bags right away and personally I hate on / off switches and volume controls on wedges. Just another thing that can drive you nuts on a busy day.
FWIW
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If this doesn't belong here I apologize and please feel free to move it.
I'm interested in the RCF NX 12-SMA wedges and wondering if anyone nearby or in Connecticut has one or more I could listen to? I'm in Milford/New Haven area and hoping not to have to drive through NYC to the RCF-USA site in Edison NJ.
--Kevin
Kevin, they are great boxes and form factor. Agree about the above comment on the paint , so get them in bags immediately. Valspar semigloss latex paint with a sponge does an incredible job for touch ups and helps keep the boxes looking new. Wish they had a pass through for xlr and powercon on the opposite side, but other than that very good box. I have the nx12sma and nx15sma in inventory. I'm curious to see the next generation of these boxes with FIR filtering and maybe slightly more output. One can wish ;)
I'm in rockland county ny - there is a guy in CT , Concerts Unlimited that has nx12 boxes, Silas Pradetto. Maybe also reach out to him.
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I third everything above. They sound amazing and very musical speakers. If you are not using sub with drum or bass monitor get 15.
Only down side I have is for loud rock and roll stages they can struggle to keep up with half stack guitar amps that are at 11 and can't get artist to turn down there amp. Other then that they sound amazing. I believe the HD32a is a great alternative if you need something to a little louder.
Rick
Kevin, they are great boxes and form factor. Agree about the above comment on the paint , so get them in bags immediately. Valspar semigloss latex paint with a sponge does an incredible job for touch ups and helps keep the boxes looking new. Wish they had a pass through for xlr and powercon on the opposite side, but other than that very good box. I have the nx12sma and nx15sma in inventory. I'm curious to see the next generation of these boxes with FIR filtering and maybe slightly more output. One can wish ;)
I'm in rockland county ny - there is a guy in CT , Concerts Unlimited that has nx12 boxes, Silas Pradetto. Maybe also reach out to him.
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Thanks all for the comments. I decided to get a pair through Mike Pyle and try them out a little. With all the positive comments on these I cant imagine they won't suit my needs. I use yamaha dsr112's now and i find they need a lot of eq to get really loud as wedges and i rarely have time or opportunity to tweak them.
Nick - I'm guessing that valspar semigloss will be black color? If you have a pint number I'd appreciate it. Great tip.
Sorry I can't travel out to you distant guys that offered. I appreciate it though. I'll try to get in touch with Silas Pradetto to get his take on these.
--Kevin
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Thanks all for the comments. I decided to get a pair through Mike Pyle and try them out a little. With all the positive comments on these I cant imagine they won't suit my needs. I use yamaha dsr112's now and i find they need a lot of eq to get really loud as wedges and i rarely have time or opportunity to tweak them.
Nick - I'm guessing that valspar semigloss will be black color? If you have a pint number I'd appreciate it. Great tip.
Sorry I can't travel out to you distant guys that offered. I appreciate it though. I'll try to get in touch with Silas Pradetto to get his take on these.
--Kevin
Kevin - It is just the regular semi gloss black in a can... I will see if I have any in the garage to get a part #
I came from using dsr112 wedges, I am going to tell you in my experience the dsr112 as I'm sure you know is a real contender and a damn good sounding box for the coin, I also found they were pretty stable feedback wise, maybe due to the FIR filters they used to process those boxes. I did a side by side with a nx15sma and fulcrum boxes, and everyone was pretty surprised how well the dsr112 did for output and feedback stability.
I think a big factor for you will be making the move to a coax box for more even stage coverage, plus the dsr112 you cannot mirror, no powercon, fairly heavy box for what it does.
nx12sma still does need some eq to be stable, but obviously making sure the wedges are in the rejection zones of the mics among other things always help with that. (AKA if the performer has talent and knows how to sing into a mic :) )they get pretty loud for a small box though, a lot of the vocalists I work with request the nx15sma over the nx12sma. I personally prefer the nx15sma, but both are great. Like i said above, im curious to see RCF's next generation of these boxes.
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Thanks all for the comments. I decided to get a pair through Mike Pyle and try them out a little. With all the positive comments on these I cant imagine they won't suit my needs. I use yamaha dsr112's now and i find they need a lot of eq to get really loud as wedges and i rarely have time or opportunity to tweak them.
--Kevin
I've thought about making that move myself. Be sure & let us know what you think.
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I was able to get one nx 12-sma wedge and spent a little time in my driveway comparing to a dsr112 yamaha. Here are some thoughts observations and a few pictures:
I used an XR18 mixer with the DSR in analog 2 and the NX in analog 3. I set up pink noise running from AudioTools into ch 15/16 (linked, no eq) and set the channel levels to get me 90db out of the yamaha wedge. I was able to swap speakers by assigning the bus to either analog 2 or 3 for comparison without moving faders. The NX was about 2db louder for the same level of input to the console.
I added a sennheiser 935 on a stand in input 14 (no eq) and turned it up until the DSR was on the edge of feedback. Then swapped bus assignment to the NX which seemed as stable or a little more. What I don't know is which was measurably louder given the variable of my voice.
To my surprise the NX didn't sound a lot louder to speak through but sounded 'better' or 'warmer'. As predicted by the coax drivers, the sound was consistent up to a couple of feet either side of center. I decided I didn't have a way to eq each wedge and keep all the other levels the same so I thought I'd just see how quickly I could get the NX tweaked a little and what level I might get to without much eq. I found that 2.5khz, 5khz, and 10-12khz were quite hot as the level rose, and that cutting those as much as 6db settled it down ok but I needed to also lower 60-200hz about 3db to get it sounding natural (not booming). That's an area I'd normally have high passed (to 150hz) on the input but didn't bother to set that. I'd have been happy with the level I got to.
I swapped over to the DSR without changing eq and, predictably, it sounded much different and had a few rings. So I can't really compare in any meaningful way. I think I could have settled the DSR down and been just about as loud, but the warmth (from experience) wouldn't be there and definitely not the smooth coverage.
Having pushed up the buss master as I did the eq'ing I went back to the pink noise (unchanged/muted) and found the db level touching 93db on the NX and 91 on the yamaha - so about the same spread as where I started. What that was with me speaking into it I don't know. I could have gotten the max db spl at the time with my iphone but didn't think of it or thought it wouldn't be a valid comparison.
Physical - as known from the specs, the DSR's are larger and heavier. See pics for comparison side-by-side. The NX has the cable connections in a better spot and the buttons are harder to set incorrectly. Would be nice if the powercon passthrough was on the other side. The RCF cases are top quality but cumbersome to load the speaker and zip shut. The case covers the carry handle unless you unzip another little door to get at it. Kind of a production vs a drop-over cover like the Yamahas. But better protection. The fit and finish of the RCF is as good or better than the Yamahas and look like quality equipment.
For me, the important positives are: smaller, lighter, better wedge angle(s), very smooth coverage, natural sounding/warm/hearable. Negatives are that these won't make as good house speakers as the yamahas, and by the specs don't get as loud overall. Cases are pricy and clumsy.
But I think I will get the other 5 I was hoping for. I'll sell four of the DSR112's and keep a pair for small house pa and sidefills or drum monitors. I have subs for those jobs and the combination works really well.
Thanks for all the discussion. Great resource.
https://flic.kr/p/241yt7N (https://flic.kr/p/241yt7N)
https://flic.kr/p/256hxiK (https://flic.kr/p/256hxiK)
https://flic.kr/p/241yt89 (https://flic.kr/p/241yt89)
--Kevin
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Cases are pricy and clumsy.
I've had six of them for four years and have been really happy with them. If by cases you mean the RCF bags, I agree. Look at the Undercover bags: to me they are much easier to use.
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Negatives are that these won't make as good house speakers as the yamahas, and by the specs don't get as loud overall.
I'm curious as to how you came to this conclusion.
I have used them as "house" speakers, outdoors, in pairs and found them to be quite suitable for all the same reasons you like them as wedges.
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Thanks for the review. I have DSR monitors but these RCF's have been on my radar for some time. I love the design & form factor of the RCF! Glad to hear that it sounds warmer, as that is my only complaint about the DSR's. Still not sure if these are worth the price difference though.
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I'm curious as to how you came to this conclusion.
I have used them as "house" speakers, outdoors, in pairs and found them to be quite suitable for all the same reasons you like them as wedges.
They do pretty well for near field applications, especially with a sub.
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Keith -
I work in a few venues that are wide, but not deep rooms. Just one pair of these would not cover the room, because a single pair of dsr's barely do. I expect they would be fine in a deep, narrow space or used in pairs 2-left 2-right.
As mentioned this quick test is based on my use and opinion. Not every situation.
If I have a situation where I don't need so many wedges but need wider dispersion I'll sure try them in pairs.
--Kevin
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I'm curious as to how you came to this conclusion.
I have used them as "house" speakers, outdoors, in pairs and found them to be quite suitable for all the same reasons you like them as wedges.
I'm assuming the narrow coverage?
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I'm assuming the narrow coverage?
Negatives are that these won't make as good house speakers as the yamahas, and by the specs don't get as loud overall.
In a wide room with only 2 cabs, it would be tough to cover but that doesn't make them "not good for house speakers". ;)