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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Lance Richens on November 10, 2012, 11:05:17 am

Title: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Lance Richens on November 10, 2012, 11:05:17 am
Getting ready to pull the trigger on an x32 & found this one on EBAY. Seems to good of a deal to be true....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251178540483?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Title: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Sam Feine on November 10, 2012, 11:40:40 am
He only seems to sell Behringer products (with a few other manufacturers mixed in) and his ratings seem pretty good, however he would have to be losing money at that price...
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Tom Burgess on November 10, 2012, 02:59:45 pm
I'm not familiar with Behringer's MAP policies but I'd be surprised if that isn't in violation.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: John Fruits on November 10, 2012, 03:03:37 pm
One thing to perhaps worry about, no where in the ad do they state they are an authorized reseller.  If they aren't an authorized vendor, the warranty probably isn't viable.  http://www.behringer.com/EN/Support/Limited-Warranty.aspx
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Bob Leonard on November 10, 2012, 03:17:30 pm
Simple enough;

"4.11 Authorized MUSIC Group Resellers do not sell new products directly in online auctions. Purchases made through an online auction are on a "buyer beware" basis. Online auction confirmations or sales receipts are not accepted for warranty verification and MUSIC Group will not repair or replace any product purchased through an online auction."
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: John Woodfield on November 10, 2012, 09:55:02 pm
Simple enough;

"4.11 Authorized MUSIC Group Resellers do not sell new products directly in online auctions. Purchases made through an online auction are on a "buyer beware" basis. Online auction confirmations or sales receipts are not accepted for warranty verification and MUSIC Group will not repair or replace any product purchased through an online auction."

I don't believe a fixed-price listing is considered an "auction"
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Chris Chambers on November 10, 2012, 10:45:55 pm
I don't believe a fixed-price listing is considered an "auction"

Beliefs and assumptions count for nothing in a legal battle over a warranty, you'd want to be sure.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Ned Ward on November 11, 2012, 12:43:15 am
forget ebay - Amazon is selling them for $2500...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008R7F382/ref=s9_simh_gw_p267_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0F9RCWT8KZXC4BE9ZG8D&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Jack keaton on November 11, 2012, 12:08:29 pm
forget ebay - Amazon is selling them for $2500...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008R7F382/ref=s9_simh_gw_p267_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0F9RCWT8KZXC4BE9ZG8D&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846

you can get them cheaper from some dealers.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Mike Pyle on November 11, 2012, 04:15:41 pm
I've sold a couple of X32s and can tell you that Music Group called me to verify the distribution chain when one of them needed service. Given the probability of needing support on these I'd avoid the gray market.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Chuck Simon on November 11, 2012, 05:54:21 pm
So where are these questionable dealers getting product?
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Chris Clark on November 11, 2012, 06:31:32 pm
Believe it or not "fell off the back of the truck" is a lot more common than the jokes make it out to be. I'm not saying for certain that's how it happened, but it is a possibility. You would think it would be harder to do with serial number tracking and such, but once the product transfers from MG control in their distribution centers to the trucking companies, anything is possible... ("Damaged" in transit and written off despite being undamaged, truck in an "accident", etc...) If it is a verifiable accident where the truck trailer is damaged, some shippers are more likely to write off the product inside completely and inform those who had product, then "scrap" all product instead of trying to determine what is undamaged; well "scrapping" involves a certain degree of human reliability to actually "scrap" the shipments... Chances are any serial numbers you might still find on those products (If they haven't been removed or forged) have been written off by MG and therefore will not be honored for warranty.

Again, not saying that's how it happened, but depending on how early MG started pre-distribution of product before actually releasing it, its possible people in the actual shipping chain have had months to get their hands on the stock and wait for an actual release. This happens with a lot of products you find find in "brand new" condition for way less than it should be. (Think "organized crime syndicates" - in the right conditions they can get "control" of entire industries, including trucking/shipping unions.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Jim Turner on November 12, 2012, 09:17:32 am
A few of the companies I work for are dealers for a Canadian distributor... Always getting Info about products from "off" brands, during the hype up leading to the release of the X-32 the distributor filled their in-boxes with junk... Buy it now! The best thing ever! Don't miss out! Only a few available!! Now the e-mails are Special offer! Even cheaper!... it appears to me that they over estimated the demand and there is an excess of product they want to dump
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Gary Weller on November 12, 2012, 12:04:13 pm
I noticed in the ad that there's no mention of the firewire card other than the port being mentioned. Could it possibly be a unit with the firewire card removed, hence the lower price?
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on November 12, 2012, 02:42:18 pm
So where are these questionable dealers getting product?

I don't know where they are getting them. We had a store go out of business recently that was selling boot leg Behringer products, good deal for all the customer's until one of them needed support and brought it to our store for us to tell them that Behringer won't offer warranty coverage without a bill of sale from a authorized retailer.

Buyer Beware on this ad for sure.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on November 12, 2012, 03:10:35 pm
There may be some good old fashioned supply and demand going on. I haven't heard the parade of people complaining because they can't find them to buy any more. 

Uli ramped up, and the market "should" be large, but the economy is not exactly firing on all cylinders. I'd say the early adopters plus some have already adopted.

They are all coming from one place, so presumably easy to find where any rogue sales are coming from. The strong pre-relase publicity and initial excitement could have led to some over-booking in distribution channels.

No one wants to sit on old inventory when new cheaper (reduced content) versions are on the horizon. The openly discussed plan from day one was to move down scale from this platform, with derivative products, that will by definition be lower cost.

Of course pure speculation on my part.  What would I know?  8)

JR

Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Lance Richens on November 12, 2012, 08:18:10 pm
Bootleg X32's?
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Bob Leonard on November 12, 2012, 09:04:41 pm
There may be some good old fashioned supply and demand going on. I haven't heard the parade of people complaining because they can't find them to buy any more. 

Uli ramped up, and the market "should" be large, but the economy is not exactly firing on all cylinders. I'd say the early adopters plus some have already adopted.

They are all coming from one place, so presumably easy to find where any rogue sales are coming from. The strong pre-relase publicity and initial excitement could have led to some over-booking in distribution channels.

No one wants to sit on old inventory when new cheaper (reduced content) versions are on the horizon. The openly discussed plan from day one was to move down scale from this platform, with derivative products, that will by definition be lower cost.

Of course pure speculation on my part.  What would I know?  8)

JR

Many, many years ago I helped start a computer company (still in business) when being an authorized dealer actually meant something. We were authorized for all brands but Compaq at the time, but that had little to do with being able to sell compaq systems.
 
The grey market is generally made up of dealers that are not authorized, who purchase thier product from dealers who are authorized. This helps the smaller authorized dealer to maintain their reseller agreements with the company supplying the product, and to procure the product from the manufactturer at a lower price / higher discount.
 
Many resellers participate in this practice and efforts to stop the practice can and usually will result in you loosing your authorization to sell the product if caught. Warranty and support can be an issue but most grey market resellers have good relations with their authorized provider, and they will usually back the warranty.
 
In years gone by when I actually participated in the "grey market" most manufacturers didn't care enough to track the product. Today it's a different story as many companies track the serial number from manufacture to sale, and know who the product was delivered to.
 
Many companies have made being an authorized dealer contingent on any number of conditions. Gibson for example requires $200,000 (May have changed) worth of product be purchased annually and with a single purchase order. That's a chunk of change for Mom and Pop stores and enough money to keep most stores from entering the grey market for fear they'll loose the authorization. To back that up Gibson has a 24/7/365 service to track serial numbers. A quick call results in them telling you every detail of the guitar plus who the authorized reseller was supposed to be.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on November 12, 2012, 09:12:59 pm
Bootleg X32's?

Behringer knock-offs........the ultimate irony.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Charlie Zureki on November 13, 2012, 07:49:14 am
Behringer knock-offs........the ultimate irony.

    ;D ;D ;D

  Hammer
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Tom Burgess on November 13, 2012, 11:33:18 am
The ebay seller from the link in the original post says (via email) it's a drop ship straight from Behringer which makes makes me curious about what's in their dealer agreement.  Seems like it's gonna be tough to maintain the value of their product if this is actually allowed.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Bob Leonard on November 15, 2012, 07:51:37 am
Yeah, first it's dropped, then it's shipped.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on November 15, 2012, 09:22:17 am
The ebay seller from the link in the original post says (via email) it's a drop ship straight from Behringer which makes makes me curious about what's in their dealer agreement.  Seems like it's gonna be tough to maintain the value of their product if this is actually allowed.

I went to that listing and then looked at the seller's feedback.  The only complaints about delivery were from buyers of Behringer products and that reinforces the drop-shipping.

The question that prospective buyers should be asking is "are you an authorized dealer?"  If so, they're trying to minimize their inventory overhead by relying on manufacturer in-stock status.  If they don't answer, my guess is they're gray market and placing orders through another dealer.
Title: Re: HOLY GOOD DEALS BATMAN! X32 related....
Post by: Steve Hurt on November 15, 2012, 12:44:35 pm
Yeah, first it's dropped, then it's shipped.


 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D