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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: John Lackner on August 22, 2014, 05:26:45 PM
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Out of the mass of choices for powered speakers , which ones are truly BIAMPED - meaning two amps and an active crossover. I know the QSC K series is, but are there any other available choices? Many of the manufacturer websites don't say much about it.
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Out of the mass of choices for powered speakers , which ones are truly BIAMPED - meaning two amps and an active crossover. I know the QSC K series is, but are there any other available choices? Many of the manufacturer websites don't say much about it.
QSC list a "1000W power module". Can you tell me what this is?
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A very quick look at websites shows biamped powered speakers from JBL and Yamaha, to name just two. Is there a price range you are looking at, to narrow the search universe? Mark C.
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http://www.bassboss.com/products/tops/at312/
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A very quick look at websites shows biamped powered speakers from JBL and Yamaha, to name just two. Is there a price range you are looking at, to narrow the search universe? Mark C.
I was thinking somewhere around the price of the QSC K series, but I'm also wondering what else may be available.
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QSC list a "1000W power module". Can you tell me what this is?
500w for LF, 500w for HF. 500W for HF - ???
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I was thinking somewhere around the price of the QSC K series, but I'm also wondering what else may be available.
Yep. The Yamaha DXR and DSR's are biamped, and so is the JBL EON 600 series.
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Out of the mass of choices for powered speakers , which ones are truly BIAMPED - meaning two amps and an active crossover. I know the QSC K series is, but are there any other available choices? Many of the manufacturer websites don't say much about it.
Why is it so important that they be biamped?
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I suggest you dig down a layer or two on the maker's website -- read the downloaded spec sheet documents. For example, not only are the Yamaha DXR and DSR series bi-amped, but so is the MSR 400. For JBL, not just the prx700 series, but also the EON 515XT are bi-amped.
FWIW, youmight also find that topics like this are better suited to the "Lounge" sub-forum. (That's where I'm more in my element.). Mark C.
Edit: I'm late to the party (again).
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Out of the mass of choices for powered speakers , which ones are truly BIAMPED - meaning two amps and an active crossover. I know the QSC K series is, but are there any other available choices? Many of the manufacturer websites don't say much about it.
Unless you consider yourself a better speaker designer than the company who made the speaker I would not worry as much about how they do it, but instead focus on what they do.
#1 what is the speakers frequency response?
#2 how loud does it get in SPL..? (forget about watts. Thats like worrying about how many amps your vacuum cleaner draws.).
#3 how does it sound?
JR
PS: IF it's 2 way it's probably biamped, if three way bi-or tri amped. but don't lose any sleep second guessing real speaker engineers. Life is short.
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Why is it so important that they be biamped?
I have run into powered speakers that have full-range amps with passive crossovers, and I'm getting tired of replacing burned out passive crossover components. I'm trying to avoid it.
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I have run into powered speakers that have full-range amps with passive crossovers, and I'm getting tired of replacing burned out passive crossover components. I'm trying to avoid it.
Which powered speakers are you having issues with? Mark C.
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I have run into powered speakers that have full-range amps with passive crossovers, and I'm getting tired of replacing burned out passive crossover components. I'm trying to avoid it.
By any chance were they cheaply priced?
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By any chance were they cheaply priced?
Yes. But I don't want to spend more money and wind up with the same problem.
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Yes. But I don't want to spend more money and wind up with the same problem.
So, what were they? Help someone else avoid the same problem.
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So, what were they? Help someone else avoid the same problem.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Mostly older American Audio, Carvin, and what I would call "NAMM show basement-DJ Alley" kind of stuff.
Sometimes you spend more and think you're getting more, but not always. Sometimes you spend less and think you're getting less, but not always.
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OK, but you'll find very, very few people on this site who use very low cost cheap Chinese cabinets which makes your comparison apples to oranges. First you need to state your budget and needs, then you'll get good suggestions back from the board members concerning speakers that will do the job properly. The box you use could be bi-amped, tri-amped, or using a passive crossover internally. Who cares if it sounds good and does the job? I'll also bet a paycheck any driver you've seen destroyed has been destroyed because the cabinet was driven far beyond it's capabilities.
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OK, but you'll find very, very few people on this site who use very low cost cheap Chinese cabinets which makes your comparison apples to oranges. First you need to state your budget and needs, then you'll get good suggestions back from the board members concerning speakers that will do the job properly. The box you use could be bi-amped, tri-amped, or using a passive crossover internally. Who cares if it sounds good and does the job? I'll also bet a paycheck any driver you've seen destroyed has been destroyed because the cabinet was driven far beyond it's capabilities.
They could be cheap Chinese cabinets. Or they could be expensive Chinese cabinets. Or they could be cheap Chinese cabinets with expensive name brand labels on them. You may be surprised to find who OEM's what in these boxes.
I'm looking for the speaker that will cause the least amount of problems for the best price.
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They could be cheap Chinese cabinets. Or they could be expensive Chinese cabinets. Or they could be cheap Chinese cabinets with expensive name brand labels on them. I'm just looking for something that's built to take what speakers are usually put through without breaking the bank.
I have not had issues with my last generation jbl prx600 series speakers. (612m, 615m, and 618sxlf). I have not tried to drive them for extended periods within angstroms of their lives, however. (Not saying that's what you have done; just saying there is a limit to all gear.). Mark C.
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They could be cheap Chinese cabinets. Or they could be expensive Chinese cabinets. Or they could be cheap Chinese cabinets with expensive name brand labels on them. You may be surprised to find who OEM's what in these boxes.
I'm looking for the speaker that will cause the least amount of problems for the best price.
I think I have a pretty good understanding of what products are coming out of China John. That's still not the question. The question is and remains the same. How much are you willing to spend, and what are these cabinets going to be used for. If you don't know, or are not willing to give us the answer to those questions, then I suggest you open a Musicians Friend catalog to the cheap speaker page and throw a dart. Drivers fail because they're abused, regardless of cost.
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I'm looking for the speaker that will cause the least amount of problems for the best price.
Are you factoring in parts availability, service availability, warranty and such or just initial cost?
If you are just looking for initial cost, then I'd say the one which is only used by an old lady for an hour of church on Sunday, to use the car salesman analogy.
It depends on how and how much you're going to use it. Do you need a diesel one-ton or a Mini-Cooper?
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I grow weary of defending China, but there is both good expensive and dubious cheap product made in China. The design is more important than where it is built.
There are a bunch of good powered cabinets made by the more established speaker companies. In general the performance of low cost gear has improved, but there will always be a bottom tier of equipment that is too cheap to work in professional situations.
Do not expect to find gold in the bargain basement bin.
JR
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Anyway, the Alto powered speakers are bi-amped, inexpensive and seem to be pretty reliable when not pushed past their capability. They don't compare to my SRX 712's but they do the job that I require of them.
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I grow weary of defending China
Me too - but as I work for a Chinese owned company, I'm going to.
The reason people think low quality when China is mentioned is because of the usual reason for outsourcing to China - i.e to get things made as cheaply as possible.
When you do that, you get the worst quality, wherever it is made.
However, there is also some great stuff being made in China and some companies with good manufacturing methods and innovative ideas.
Also bear in mind that the things people are saying about Chinese manufacture now are exactly the same things people were saying about Japan in the 1970s and 1980s.
There is good and bad manufacturing in every country. You can't write off a whole country's manufacturing on the basis of only seeing its worst/cheapest efforts.
The British Empire has had it's time as manufacturing leader of the world. America's claim to that title is coming to an end and now it's China's turn. However, as there is so much work in China now, wages are having to rise in order to keep workers so eventually their cost effectiveness will diminish. Then it will be the turn of another country - perhaps Vietnam, India or Thailand. Although one of our bosses at work last week said that for some things, Mexico now appears to be more cost effective than China.
Steve.
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I have run into powered speakers that have full-range amps with passive crossovers, and I'm getting tired of replacing burned out passive crossover components. I'm trying to avoid it.
You need to address the problem, not the symptom. The problem here is you're attempting to drive cheap speakers beyond their capabilities. The symptom is that the crossover is failing. But if this speaker were 'bi-amped' as you desire, you'd just be replacing drivers instead. As the saying goes, 'buy once, cry once'.
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You need to address the problem, not the symptom. The problem here is you're attempting to drive cheap speakers beyond their capabilities. The symptom is that the crossover is failing. But if this speaker were 'bi-amped' as you desire, you'd just be replacing drivers instead. As the saying goes, 'buy once, cry once'.
To expand on this, what is OP feeding to the now toasted cabs? A full mix including kick and bass while trying to reach higher SPL?
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Are you factoring in parts availability, service availability, warranty and such or just initial cost?
If you are just looking for initial cost, then I'd say the one which is only used by an old lady for an hour of church on Sunday, to use the car salesman analogy.
It depends on how and how much you're going to use it. Do you need a diesel one-ton or a Mini-Cooper?
I am considering all of the above. They're going to be used primarily for mains for speeches and small music events, wedges for small to medium sized events, and supplemented with subs for medium sized events. They also need to be robust enough to allow me to turn my back on the DJ for a minute without getting worried. The Yamaha DXR and DSR cabinets look like a good quality choice for the type of price point I'm in. Or something around that range.
The quality level of all these powered speakers has vastly improved over the last few years. Much better build and component quality for not much more money. In with the new, out with the old - at least in this category.