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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Ted Christensen on December 16, 2012, 02:54:40 PM

Title: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Ted Christensen on December 16, 2012, 02:54:40 PM
In overall terms would cobra tops be a step sideways or a step up from 850s.

I'm wondering how many cobra boxes it would take to keep up with the 850s.

Upside is the cobras are less weight and could pack way more in a trailer than 850s.

Thoughts?

P.s these boxes would be used mainly for rock but as well as anything else.
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Caleb Dueck on December 16, 2012, 04:49:31 PM
How rider friendly do they need to be?
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on December 16, 2012, 05:11:11 PM
How rider friendly do they need to be?

I believe that in his end of the state, "Makes a good, loud noise" pretty much sums it up.....
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Kemper Watson on December 16, 2012, 06:25:14 PM
In overall terms would cobra tops be a step sideways or a step up from 850s.

I'm wondering how many cobra boxes it would take to keep up with the 850s.

Upside is the cobras are less weight and could pack way more in a trailer than 850s.

Thoughts?

P.s these boxes would be used mainly for rock but as well as anything else.

I'd call it a sideways move. Personally not a big fan of the Cobra's. Every rig I've heard I would describe as "shiney"..
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Ted Christensen on December 16, 2012, 06:36:53 PM
How rider friendly do they need to be?

rider friendly is important to some degree, once i have something to compare this box to that are on riders it will be ok

If it gets even louder than an 850, cool. Loud is important if those guys like to push a system to the max for no reason, so the headroom is nice. But inteligability is every bet important.

as i have been doing research it sounds like bosch doesnt market these in the US, which could take some time to order for starters. Parts wouldnt to big because its EV based.
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on December 16, 2012, 08:22:25 PM
I'd go with the KF850. 

I've ran both Cobra4 (wih DSP & amps package) and KF850 (E's with EAW Analog crossover and QSC PL power amps).

A guy in my area has a Cobra4 rig and his 4 box (2 tops & 2 subs) per side rig is equivalent to a QRX212/SRX728 rig.  I'm putting my rig in the same room as him and getting great responses from the venue staff.
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Thomas Lamb on December 16, 2012, 08:48:40 PM
I'd go with the KF850. 

I've ran both Cobra4 (wih DSP & amps package) and KF850 (E's with EAW Analog crossover and QSC PL power amps).

A guy in my area has a Cobra4 rig and his 4 box (2 tops & 2 subs) per side rig is equivalent to a QRX212/SRX728 rig.  I'm putting my rig in the same room as him and getting great responses from the venue staff.


New company Matt? "Meetkatsound.com"
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on December 16, 2012, 08:53:18 PM
I'd go with the KF850. 

I've ran both Cobra4 (wih DSP & amps package) and KF850 (E's with EAW Analog crossover and QSC PL power amps).

A guy in my area has a Cobra4 rig and his 4 box (2 tops & 2 subs) per side rig is equivalent to a QRX212/SRX728 rig.  I'm putting my rig in the same room as him and getting great responses from the venue staff.

Matt...

2 Cobra tops and 2 Cobra subs/side is your basic Cobra 2 rig.  The only possible difference would be whether or not the subs are the "long throw" version.

A true Cobra 4 rig uses more and more specialized boxes, especially in the subbage with 8 long throw boxes as standard.

Not your QRX stand-in........
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on December 16, 2012, 10:28:51 PM
Matt...

2 Cobra tops and 2 Cobra subs/side is your basic Cobra 2 rig.  The only possible difference would be whether or not the subs are the "long throw" version.

A true Cobra 4 rig uses more and more specialized boxes, especially in the subbage with 8 long throw boxes as standard.

Not your QRX stand-in........

I'm saying just saying that I have put my QRx/SRX rig in he same rooms (ballrooms & churches) as him and been able to provide great sound for the Client.  I have put my rig in a warehouse for 500 people at a GoGo event and lived (IT8000 can trip a 20amp break with 2 4ohm loads)

The guy who owns the rig does have Top & Far boxes for a complete Cobra4 rig. I believe the "Top" among the Cobra2 & Cobra4 are the same boxes.  The Cobra4 has the "Far" box for the throw.

The set-up for the rigs I've mixed on was (per side):
Cobra: 1-Far, 2-Tops, 4-Subs & 1 amp rack
KF: 2 KF850, 3 SB850 (total: 1 top rack, 1 sub rack)

I preferred the 850 rig over the Cobra-Set-up.  This was a field show and I used my LS9 at front of house.
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: john sanders on December 17, 2012, 09:42:02 AM
Matt,

How many QRX/Srx boxes were you utilizing. In either case as the owner of a QRX212/218 system your report is encouraging.
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on December 17, 2012, 10:12:13 AM
Matt,

How many QRX/Srx boxes were you utilizing. In either case as the owner of a QRX212/218 system your report is encouraging.

I am running 1 QRx212 over 2 SRX718s per side.  I don’t have a problem throwing my rig up in front of 350 people; it’ll tickle the limiters at a rock show with the snare’s snap.  I have ran a couple shows with 2 QRx212 per side; mainly 500 person rock shows.

If I was to do that GoGo show again, I would have doubled the rig… but there was a miscommunication on room size and such.  But having the Itech amps probably saved me from blowing anything up.

The Cobra rig that I have used a few times, at the end of event I always think that something is off with the rig.  It sounds like there is a phasing issue amongst the stack.  Everything is set-up using Factory DSP Presets.
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on December 17, 2012, 12:45:20 PM
I am running 1 QRx212 over 2 SRX718s per side.  I don’t have a problem throwing my rig up in front of 350 people; it’ll tickle the limiters at a rock show with the snare’s snap.  I have ran a couple shows with 2 QRx212 per side; mainly 500 person rock shows.

If I was to do that GoGo show again, I would have doubled the rig… but there was a miscommunication on room size and such.  But having the Itech amps probably saved me from blowing anything up.

The Cobra rig that I have used a few times, at the end of event I always think that something is off with the rig.  It sounds like there is a phasing issue amongst the stack.  Everything is set-up using Factory DSP Presets.

A properly set up Cobra rig has a fine sound.  As far as that goes, most rigs will sound fine if optimally set up and not run beyond their capacity.  I don't want to come off as a total Cobra fan-boy, but if it doesn't sound good (what is a "phasing issue"?), it's most likely OE.   Anything to do with "phase" or the like is probably in the setup, not the gear.......unless the gear has been re-wired or improperly repaired.

Check the cabling........
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Dave Bigelow on December 17, 2012, 04:54:16 PM
I've ran both many of times inside and outdoors and there is no way the Cobra keeps up with a lesser properly powered and processed 850s.

Yes, Cobras sound "off" to me when pushed hard at outdoor rocks shows. Seems like the mids come and go due to whatever they do with the processing. I've read about it in the past and I understand that it is basically it's way of saying either "you're pushing me too hard" or "There aren't enough of us to do this gig".

A quick look at B level riders still shows 850s, cobras are not listed on any of those I have read in quite a long time now.

Decent little rigs but I think this is an apples to watermelons kind of conversation.
Title: Re: dynacord cobra vs 850ef's
Post by: Ted Christensen on December 20, 2012, 02:21:41 AM
 :P
I've ran both many of times inside and outdoors and there is no way the Cobra keeps up with a lesser properly powered and processed 850s.

Yes, Cobras sound "off" to me when pushed hard at outdoor rocks shows. Seems like the mids come and go due to whatever they do with the processing. I've read about it in the past and I understand that it is basically it's way of saying either "you're pushing me too hard" or "There aren't enough of us to do this gig".

A quick look at B level riders still shows 850s, cobras are not listed on any of those I have read in quite a long time now.

Decent little rigs but I think this is an apples to watermelons kind of conversation.

Thanks everyone for the input! I decided I will stay with my 850s for a while.

Dave, what are you classifying as underpowered?