Post by: Gareth Walton on October 23, 2008, 09:48:45 PM
I did give this a go (after trying both cabs & cables in stereo first) and I have a shhhhhhh coming from the highs and a hum from the lows. Also when turning the fader on the mixer down (channel, not master) I can still hear music playing.
I am sure I have done something wrong. Sorry to sound like a complete div but can any help explain this? Pleeaaase!!
Post by: Shanne Flemming on October 23, 2008, 10:22:08 PM
Amp 1+ and 2+
To
Speaker 1+ and 1-
Don't mistakenly reverse the cable putting the speaker end on the amp it won't work.
Once you get this going you can make a patch bay in your amp rack with a short speaker wire from the amp to wire a regularly wired speaker cable to the speaker.
You can also make a short cord wired as above and leave plugged into the amp with a speakon coupler just to attach to your speaker wire.
Post by: Rob Spence on October 23, 2008, 11:22:24 PM
Here are a couple of options - both use 2 wire cable:
1) Make a short pair of cables with bannana plugs on one end and either a panel mount speakon or a cable mount with a coupler. The speakon end goes to 1+ and 1- . Connect the bannana to the 2 red posts.
2) Make a short pair of cables with speakon on one end and a panel mount speakon. Wire the end for the speaker to 1+ and 1-. Wire the end for the amp to 1+ and 2+. Be careful not to use these for other things as it either will not work or may damage something.
Now plug your normal long speakon cables into these and you speakers and you are set.
The reason you heard noise out of your speakers is one channel was driving the lows and the other driving the highs even though the amp was switchd to bridged.
Be careful with this stuff as you can blow things up.
Post by: Gary Perrett on October 23, 2008, 11:38:09 PM
To better answer your question lets look at a NL4 Bi-amp setup using 2 Bridged amps, this would require 2 panel NL4 jacks since the amps in bridged uses only 1+ and 2+.
Low amp1, 1+ to NL4 jack 1+
Low amp1, 2+ to NL4 jack 1-
Hi amp2, 1+ to NL4 jack 2+
Hi amp2, 2- to NL4 jack 2-
Note: in the above you can use the NL4 jack out that shows the 1+/ 2+(typically channel 1 or A, or the 2 red binding posts, noting that polarity is important 1+ goes to 1+ 2+ goes to 1-.
The speakon standard cable then would be (could be ANY combination... but) you specified red and Black, so red would be 1+, and black would be 1-.... yellow would be 2+, and white would be 2- (where white and black denote ground.. which is kind of a standard...not really but oh well)
this would be for one speaker...
A more typical setup might be bridged lows and stereo/dual mono highs:
Low amp1 bridged 1+ to NL4 panel jack 1+
Low amp1 2+ to NL4 " " 1-
High amp2 stereo 1+ to NL4 " " 2+
High amp2 stereo 1- to NL4 " " 2-
The other bridged amp would feed a second NL4 the same as Low amp1 and the second channel of the second NL4 would feed like this:
High amp2 stereo 2+ to NL4 " " 2+
High amp2 stereo 2- to NL4 " " 2-
G
Post by: Gareth Walton on October 24, 2008, 06:44:34 AM
Im so greatful for your help, I will try this today and let you know what happens.
Can you just check what I'm thinking, is this right or wrong??
Amp end of speakon:-
1+ to Red
2+ to Black
1- to Yellow
2- to White
Speaker end of speakon:-
1+ to Red
1- to Black
2+ to Yellow
2- to White
Would this work? and would it stop the noise coming from speakers?
Thanks guys
Post by: Geoff Doane on October 24, 2008, 09:29:57 AM
| Gareth Walton wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 07:44 |
Can you just check what I'm thinking, is this right or wrong?? Amp end of speakon:- 1+ to Red 2+ to Black 1- to Yellow 2- to White Speaker end of speakon:- 1+ to Red 1- to Black 2+ to Yellow 2- to White Would this work? and would it stop the noise coming from speakers? Thanks guys |
It will work, although I'm not a fan of special cables either.
I don't know if you planned it that way, but it looks like the cable will work with either end at the amp, and the other at the speaker. If you lose the cables (or forget them on a gig), a standard cable will still work, you just won't get the amp in bridged mode (it won't be as loud, but it will make sound).
I'm not sure where the noise you're hearing is coming from. It sounds like typical system noise, maybe louder because the amp has more gain in bridge mode than in stereo. I don't think the speaker cables will make any difference.
GTD
Post by: Scott Deeter on October 24, 2008, 06:23:53 PM
| Gareth Walton wrote on Thu, 23 October 2008 21:48 |
I have just purchased some new 4 pole speakon cables and need to rewire them. All info ive found only gives examples and info on 2 pole. I will be using 2 amps in bridge mode ( 1 amp for each speaker ). |
| Gareth Walton wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 06:44 |
Just clarify, both speaker cabs are full range. I don't want to split mids and highs, using separate amps for each. Just 1 amp per speaker. |
Gareth,
You mention 1 amp per speaker "Full Range", is your setup 1 speaker stage L & R or a pair of speakers together on each side? If it's 1 speaker on each side and this is your consistent setup, I'm wondering what the purpose of getting 4 conductor cable was for. Again if this will be a consistent setup, I would've thought of getting heavier gauge (like 10 gauge) 2 conductor cable to handle the higher wattage better.
Then the use of a patch panel on the amp rack wired correctly for the cable connections with the speaker cables wired as "normal" 1+ & 1-.
If a patch panel isn't feasible then make your own adaptors like Rob S. mentioned but instead of a panel mount speakon connector, just use an actual Female speakon cord end.
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/Neutri k/NL4_Speakon/NLT4MX-BAG/NLT4MX-BAG_cutsheet.asp
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/Banana _Cord_Ends/Banana_Cord_Ends.asp
Post by: SteveKirby on October 25, 2008, 03:17:43 AM
Best thing is a patch panel at the amprack. All your special wiring goes on between the amp and the panel. Then it's conventional from there on out.
Next best would be the adapters left connected to the amp and hanging in the rack. More likely that some helpful person will unhook them and they could get misplaced (you should have a spare clearly marked) or that if you use bananas one channel could get polarity reversed and suck the life out of things.
You could rewire your speaker cabs but that would make them special and only able to be used with bridged amps using the +1/+2 convention.
Last resort would be rewired speaker cables. If one goes bad, your SOL. Or maybe you need a different length.
edit to add, if you invested in 4 cond cables, and aren't biamping or needing the separate runs, then maybe consider rewiring your speakers to parallel the +/-1 and +/-2 connections and do the same at your patch panel, so that you have both conductors paralleled and aren't wasting the second pair.