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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => The Basement => Topic started by: Ivan Beaver on August 15, 2017, 12:54:54 PM
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I just ran across this on the Lansing forum pages.
It is truly sad how corporations forget about the people who made them.
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Very sad. I grew up knowing that JBL was the best speaker manufacturer. I was certified as a recone station and their products and customer support were outstanding. Things slowly started to really go downhill when they came out with the EON system and they never looked back again.
It's been a long time since JBL did anything good.
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Very sad. I grew up knowing that JBL was the best speaker manufacturer. I was certified as a recone station
Back in my rental days, most of the components in boxes I built were JBL.
I am also a JBL certified reconer (back in the 90s).
But when you are just a number that draws a check, it is hard to stand out.
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Very sad. I grew up knowing that JBL was the best speaker manufacturer. I was certified as a recone station and their products and customer support were outstanding. Things slowly started to really go downhill when they came out with the EON system and they never looked back again.
It's been a long time since JBL did anything good.
I love my SRX800 series speakers but this does make me sad and causes me to pause in my decision making going forward. I have always been a JBL girl but a few hiccups over the last few years and this report knocks my confidence in JBL.
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I just ran across this on the Lansing forum pages.
It is truly sad how corporations forget about the people who made them.
JBL has been reduced to just a name and reputation to be bought and sold as a commodity by people who don't know anything about Pro Audio and who eat golden-goose for dinner.
(And probably cooked in one of these:)
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The personnel departures referred to occurred prior to Samsung's purchase of JBL.
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Surprised no one commented yet that this is over a year old... edit... yeah what Tim said.
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Jerry went to work for Samsung as a senior loudspeaker engineer where they dug in and built two anechoic chambers and then, they just bought Harman. Funny in a sad sort of way.
I bet the new lab is much nicer than what Greg describes is left in Northridge.
Two super sharp and super nice guys. I enjoy the fruits of their labors every day.
Barry.
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JBL has been reduced to just a name and reputation to be bought and sold as a commodity by people who don't know anything about Pro Audio and who eat golden-goose for dinner.
(And probably cooked in one of these:)
What, anymore, is made by the company whose name is on the front?
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What, anymore, is made by the company whose name is on the front?
Ummm, Meyer, L'acoustics, D&B, Digico, Avid, Fulcrum Acoustic, Danley, Clair, Yamaha. Basically anything you see on a rider, right?
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Ummm, Meyer, L'acoustics, D&B, Digico, Avid, Fulcrum Acoustic, Danley, Clair, Yamaha. Basically anything you see on a rider, right?
I'm not aware of Danley, Fulcrum, or Clair making their own drivers. Maybe some of the others do - I don't know, but I doubt it. Penny & Giles makes faders for many of the big-name desks. Interestingly Behringer rolled their own fader for the X32, but they did so to cut costs. Yamaha probably rolls more custom silicon than most, but even they use many off the shelf parts.
I know in the past companies like EAW have commissioned specific drivers from driver vendors, and I presume that is still possible from companies like B&C.
This shifting around happens all the time. Companies like Sun used to make their own application-specific CPUs. They were good at what they did and faster than a general-purpose CPU like an Intel...for a while, then Intel's $8,000,000,000 R&D budget overran them and a boring X86 chip became more capable than a special purpose chip through sheer brute force.
I have a feeling that B&C's R&D department is more capable and advanced than JBL's ever was. At some point it becomes a business decision to focus on your competency and outsource component development to specialists that are better at it or cheaper than you are.
Time will tell how Samsung will treat Harman's professional brands, but I think it's a little early to declare the sky is falling. We'll see.
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I'm not aware of Danley, Fulcrum, or Clair making their own drivers. Maybe some of the others do - I don't know, but I doubt it. Penny & Giles makes faders for many of the big-name desks. Interestingly Behringer rolled their own fader for the X32, but they did so to cut costs. Yamaha probably rolls more custom silicon than most, but even they use many off the shelf parts.
I know in the past companies like EAW have commissioned specific drivers from driver vendors, and I presume that is still possible from companies like B&C.
This shifting around happens all the time. Companies like Sun used to make their own application-specific CPUs. They were good at what they did and faster than a general-purpose CPU like an Intel...for a while, then Intel's $8,000,000,000 R&D budget overran them and a boring X86 chip became more capable than a special purpose chip through sheer brute force.
I have a feeling that B&C's R&D department is more capable and advanced than JBL's ever was. At some point it becomes a business decision to focus on your competency and outsource component development to specialists that are better at it or cheaper than you are.
Time will tell how Samsung will treat Harman's professional brands, but I think it's a little early to declare the sky is falling. We'll see.
Most speaker driver manufacturers will build custom drivers.
Nobody makes "all the parts" of the cabinets.
Even if the drivers are made by the manufacturer-is the wood? What about the steel/aluminum in the drivers? Do they mine their own copper for the voice coils? And cut the trees for the cones?
At some point other parts are made by others.
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I just ran across this on the Lansing forum pages.
It is truly sad how corporations forget about the people who made them.
Then there was Altec Lansing. I have a few sets of different multicells and several model compression drivers 1" and 291- 16b. Mantaray horns as well and some cone drivers.
I just have a hard time thinking about parting with the stuff even though it is in the basement.
Both JBL and Altec set the standards back in the day.
http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/proloudspeakers/lgdriverslit.html
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You guy's all know I bleed orange, no surprise there. To be sure though, as Tim states above, those good folks left over a year ago and the world hasn't come to an end yet. Plus, the majority of the work done by them was within the consumer division, not pro sound. Regardless, it's talent lost. However, I'm sure JBL will still be JBL in another 50 years.
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Years ago I worked with some extraordinary folks at Dolby Labs. Pioneers in the audio industry. These days in consumer electronics I work with bunches of young folks who's understanding of what goes on in a driver or cabinet amazes me. The science of audio has progressed by leaps and bounds as computer analysis, instrumentation and modeling has evolved. Things that seem latest tech, like FIR, is old hat for these kids who have grown up taking for granted the ability to model complex calculations. There's still a few old guard around who have learned some of the lessons the hard way and can avoid a few pitfalls. But we run as fast as we can to keep up with the overall picture these young folks see.
I feel that the future of audio is encouraging. The next generation of bright folks is poised to make the next level of advances. The amount of sound that my iPad Air makes is astonishing considering how thin it is. While most of the efforts are in these little portable devices, these people know things. And some of it will make it's way to pro audio. Watch out.
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You guy's all know I bleed orange, no surprise there. To be sure though, as Tim states above, those good folks left over a year ago and the world hasn't come to an end yet. Plus, the majority of the work done by them was within the consumer division, not pro sound. Regardless, it's talent lost. However, I'm sure JBL will still be JBL in another 50 years.
And now it affects the Pro side
http://www.avnetwork.com/systems-contractor-news/harman-pro-employees-face-massive-layoffs/127193
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for the last two years to better serve our customers, increase our competitiveness, and accelerate new product innovations,
How are any of these goals furthered by cutting the workforce so dramatically?
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Sounds like marketing speak for exactly the same thing that happened at a factory here-were going to lay everyone off, and create "new positions". You have no experience in this "new position", but we will be charitable and hire you for it at x% of your previous wage.
"These centers will allow the company's engineers to focus on critical product differentiations instead of requiring them to develop motors, mechanical structures, and other supporting elements. "
Aren't "motors, mechanical structures, and other supporting elements" what should differentiate a quality product from a cheap gimmick?
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At Dell, downsizing was cheerfully called "right-sizing". It really sucked not knowing who might be missing from the next engineering meeting. People were escorted to their cars too swiftly to hand over their work to colleagues (accounts were immediately frozen because the company was paranoid about ousted employees sabotaging files), so "survivors" wasted countless hours recreating work that was already done. When my time finally came up I had no hard feelings, but I regretted not being able to turn over my files to my remaining team members/friends. When I was hired Dell had 5-year strategic plans; seven years later they were canning essential people quarterly, as knee-jerk reactions to appease nervous stockholders.
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At Dell, downsizing was cheerfully called "right-sizing". It really sucked not knowing who might be missing from the next engineering meeting. People were escorted to their cars too swiftly to hand over their work to colleagues (accounts were immediately frozen because the company was paranoid about ousted employees sabotaging files), so "survivors" wasted countless hours recreating work that was already done. When my time finally came up I had no hard feelings, but I regretted not being able to turn over my files to my remaining team members/friends. When I was hired Dell had 5-year strategic plans; seven years later they were canning essential people quarterly, as knee-jerk reactions to appease nervous stockholders.
My wife used to work as a sales engineer for a large telecommunications company who built a lot of the infrastructure that the internet now uses.
They had a MASSIVE (think tens of thousands of employees) layoff, which she was a part of.
The CEO got a nice 4-5 millon dollar bonus because of the 4th quarter profits. Yeah-when you don't have payroll to meet.
But then there were no salesmen or enginners for future work, so the company died quickly.
But hey-as long as the stock holders got a nice bonus (and then sold off), they were happy---------
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My wife used to work as a sales engineer for a large telecommunications company who built a lot of the infrastructure that the internet now uses.
They had a MASSIVE (think tens of thousands of employees) layoff, which she was a part of.
The CEO got a nice 4-5 millon dollar bonus because of the 4th quarter profits. Yeah-when you don't have payroll to meet.
But then there were no salesmen or enginners for future work, so the company died quickly.
But hey-as long as the stock holders got a nice bonus (and then sold off), they were happy---------
Capitalists given capitalism a bad name.
The bonus formula was shy an operation.
The last calculation should have included... (/N sub L) (N sub L = number of layoffs in the calculation period)
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... seven years later they were canning essential people quarterly, as knee-jerk reactions to appease nervous stockholders.
An all-too-common practice in Publicly Held Firms. Appease Wall Street on a quarterly basis, even if it's detrimental in the long term. Executive compensation is often linked to share price.
Dell is once again Privately Held, but its glory days appear to be in the past (as may be JBL/Harman's?).
Dave
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An all-too-common practice in Publicly Held Firms. Appease Wall Street on a quarterly basis, even if it's detrimental in the long term. Executive compensation is often linked to share price.
Dell is once again Privately Held, but its glory days appear to be in the past (as may be JBL/Harman's?).
Dave
Managing to a balance sheet outcome and not long term planning is now de regeuer. Much like managing cash flow to cover debt instead of for long term profitability. The new world business practices offend my sensibilities. To me they don't create long term value in the company and are ultimately detrimental to the very investors they are attempting to appease. At least to the investors in for the long term. The profit takers should not be pandered to.
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https://www.thelayoff.com/harman-international-industries
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Crown plant closing
This is truly sad. A company that was so strong
http://www.elkharttruth.com/hometown/elkhart/crown-audio-to-close-workers-affected/article_063e9621-e9b9-5b41-bd43-e543ce131779.html
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This is truly sad. A company that was so strong
No worries. Future engineering for such proud brands as JBL, Crown, dbx, Soundcraft, etc. will now be in the hands of the people who brought you TVs that spy on you, spontaneously combustible cell phones and exploding washing machines!
Dave
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No worries. Future engineering for such proud brands as JBL, Crown, dbx, Soundcraft, etc. will now be in the hands of the people who brought you TVs that spy on you, spontaneously combustible cell phones and exploding washing machines!
Dave
Hey I have all three of those products, they actually sent a tech out to rebuild the washer. What is scary is I am actually looking at the Note 8 even after all I went through with the Note 7's
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No worries. Future engineering for such proud brands as JBL, Crown, dbx, Soundcraft, etc. will now be in the hands of the people who brought you TVs that spy on you, spontaneously combustible cell phones and exploding washing machines!
Dave
So if I have a Gmail account I can mix that corporate job in Minneapolis from my Android phone? While sitting on a sunny beach drinking a cold beverage?
What happens when someone on stage sings a copyrighted song? Does Google automatically turn the mic off?
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So if I have a Gmail account I can mix that corporate job in Minneapolis from my Android phone? While sitting on a sunny beach drinking a cold beverage?
What happens when someone on stage sings a copyrighted song? Does Google automatically turn the mic off?
No, Google will check how many Android cell phones are around you and charge to your phone bill according to the number of listeners. 8)