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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: brad smith on May 08, 2014, 11:08:25 PM

Title: new monitor purchase
Post by: brad smith on May 08, 2014, 11:08:25 PM
I'm looking to purchase a new monitor rig and wanted some opinions. We'll be purchasing 4 to 6 monitors for local/ regional bands and am either planning on a combination of EV tour x 12/15's or JBL prx 712's. I know that most people will mention active is better. I am planning on running the EV's with QSC plx 3602's. I have been using a combination of Yamaha cm 15's and jbl mrx 512's.  My drum monitor is a jbl mrx 525. Looking to purchase  quality cabinets that can keep up with high volume of rock to country acts. I will also be purchasing a new drum monitor and am leaning towards a powered sub/top but not set on that purchase.

I mainly run sound for my band and do occasional sound jobs, but am wanting something that I can use for regional acts. There are some regional companies that love the EV tour x monitors and just not sure what direction to go and what to spend the money on.

Looking for opinions on what you would do.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mike Pyle on May 09, 2014, 01:00:11 AM
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=149558.0
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Robert Piascik on May 09, 2014, 11:26:37 AM
http://soundforums.net/threads/10024-Favorite-Stage-Monitor
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Brian Jojade on May 09, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
I know that most people will mention active is better.

I can't say I agree with this.  For stage monitors, I much prefer to use passive speakers.  The reason being, is that now I only have to run a single speaker cable to the cabinet.  No power connection needed.  I also have access to all of the controls on the side of the stage.  No chance of forgetting to turn on the power switch, or having one of the controls set incorrectly on stage.

But that's just me.  Some people prefer dealing with the active speaker versus dealing with an amp rack on the side of the stage.  Neither is right or wrong.  Neither is better or worse, if you're comparing the same class of speaker.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mike Pyle on May 09, 2014, 12:42:14 PM
If you decide to do powered wedges I'd recommend the RCF NX12SMA.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Steve Garris on May 09, 2014, 02:52:28 PM
If you decide to do powered wedges I'd recommend the RCF NX12SMA.

Those RCF's would be the way to go if you can afford them.

For a cheaper option, the Yamaha DSR112 is an excellent, loud floor monitor. It has a good monitor angle (the JBL does not), and it's rated 134db 1300w peak. It also utilized locking power cords (but not powercon).
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Chuck Simon on May 09, 2014, 04:10:20 PM
It has a good monitor angle (the JBL does not),

There is nothing wrong with the monitor angle of the PRX 712, the speaker mentioned by the OP.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Samuel Rees on May 09, 2014, 04:56:34 PM

If you decide to do powered wedges I'd recommend the RCF NX12SMA.

Mike recently recommended them to me and another forum member, and we couldn't be happier. A third forum member heard mine and promptly bought them to replace his wedges. They're not exactly new, but they seem to really me making their way around recently. Excellent weight/SPL ratio.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 10, 2014, 06:00:13 AM
Mike recently recommended them to me and another forum member, and we couldn't be happier. A third forum member heard mine and promptly bought them to replace his wedges. They're not exactly new, but they seem to really me making their way around recently. Excellent weight/SPL ratio.

I have  NX10SMAs an 2 NX12SMAs. Very happy camper here.  Perfect angle to tuck right in front of the mic stand.  Go loud, sound good.  I prefer the 12s for more full range usage but the 10s are excellent for vocal reinforcement.  I give the 12s to the bass player and drummer, everyone else gets the 10s.  The artists always say 'wow, I've never hear myself so clearly' (taken in the context that I work with mostly C level artists and a few B international touring group)
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Kirby Yarbrough on May 10, 2014, 08:34:46 AM
I'd recommend the RCF NX12SMA

+1 if you go the self-powered route.  I own six.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Robert Piascik on May 10, 2014, 11:33:52 AM
For stage monitors, I much prefer to use passive speakers.  The reason being, is that now I only have to run a single speaker cable to the cabinet.

I agree with Brian and even take this a step further. I rewired a four monitor set with NL8 and now can provide four mixes by just daisy chaining further reducing cabling.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on May 10, 2014, 11:40:34 AM
I agree with Brian and even take this a step further. I rewired a four monitor set with NL8 and now can provide four mixes by just daisy chaining further reducing cabling.

Do you simply have 4 speakers wired to each of the 4 pins? what if you want to monitors for one mix?
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Scott Olewiler on May 10, 2014, 12:41:08 PM
I have  NX10SMAs an 2 NX12SMAs. Very happy camper here.  Perfect angle to tuck right in front of the mic stand.  Go loud, sound good.  I prefer the 12s for more full range usage but the 10s are excellent for vocal reinforcement.  I give the 12s to the bass player and drummer, everyone else gets the 10s.  The artists always say 'wow, I've never hear myself so clearly' (taken in the context that I work with mostly C level artists and a few B international touring group)

Mark, do you agree with this quote from RCF's website "The advantages of the coaxial transducers are the complete absence of feedback "?  That's quite a claim.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: John Moore on May 10, 2014, 12:49:07 PM
Mark, do you agree with this quote from RCF's website "The advantages of the coaxial transducers are the complete absence of feedback "?  That's quite a claim.

While I would not go that far, the statement is not far from the truth, with the NX series of monitors. We have 12 in our inventory and and SOLD a ton of them to sound co's . The way this speaker is designed , does have excellent feedback rejection properties. We have used the coaxial speakers with the Heil RC35 capsules on stage and have literally had performers bend over the monitor while performing to reach out to the audience and NO FEEDBACK. I feel that the properties of the coaxial design and the high rear rejection of the Heil capsules (>45db) does the trick...those that have purchased the NX monitors are blown away ...
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Robert Piascik on May 10, 2014, 01:38:00 PM
Do you simply have 4 speakers wired to each of the 4 pins? what if you want to monitors for one mix?

I wired each of the four monitors to pin 1+-, pin 2+-, pin 3+-, and pin 4+- respectively
Each monitor gets its own amp or amp channel
If only one mix just feed each amp same signal

I also included quarter inch inputs for easy chaining without worrying about pins

It's really worked well for me as we most often provide four mixes
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 10, 2014, 02:40:22 PM
Mark, do you agree with this quote from RCF's website "The advantages of the coaxial transducers are the complete absence of feedback "?  That's quite a claim.

You can get them to feedback but with a directional mic they go plenty loud before feedback with no EQ applied.  They go louder before feedback and sound much better than my previous mons (Yamaha SMIV, Mackie SRM450s, Yorkville 550Ps).  I made a post in the measurement forum last year with some details about there response. They are quite flat.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Samuel Rees on May 10, 2014, 02:58:24 PM
Sure it's some marketing lingo, but generally I find coaxial monitors, and monitors processed approximately flat, resist feedback with standard mics better than many non-coaxial designs. I find this to be especially true when the vocalist is moving around with the mic.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: john lutz on May 10, 2014, 05:29:48 PM
I'm looking to purchase a new monitor rig and wanted some opinions. We'll be purchasing 4 to 6 monitors for local/ regional bands and am either planning on a combination of EV tour x 12/15's or JBL prx 712's. I know that most people will mention active is better. I am planning on running the EV's with QSC plx 3602's. I have been using a combination of Yamaha cm 15's and jbl mrx 512's.  My drum monitor is a jbl mrx 525. Looking to purchase  quality cabinets that can keep up with high volume of rock to country acts. I will also be purchasing a new drum monitor and am leaning towards a powered sub/top but not set on that purchase.

I mainly run sound for my band and do occasional sound jobs, but am wanting something that I can use for regional acts. There are some regional companies that love the EV tour x monitors and just not sure what direction to go and what to spend the money on.

Looking for opinions on what you would do.

So what is it about the JBL MRX 512s that is letting you down?  Just that non-powered?
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Rob Spence on May 10, 2014, 06:33:28 PM
I have some monitors with coaxials in them and I agree that they are less prone to feedback. I had heard something about conventional horns and pattern flip? Maybe that is what the coax doesn't do?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: chuck clark on May 10, 2014, 07:48:29 PM
Mark, do you agree with this quote from RCF's website "The advantages of the coaxial transducers are the complete absence of feedback "?  That's quite a claim.

Uh, yeah, hold on a sec, my bullshit meter just pegged.
As one who has owned some P.A.S.  T.O.C. (time offset corrected) co-axial concert wedges w/ 4" voice coil 15's and a 3" voice coil Radian Hi-freq. driver, that have worked GREAT for over 20 yrs. I can tell you that statement is unmitigated B.S.T.M.  (better sound thru marketing)
No doubt a late nite session in marketing w/ a leeetle too much coffee.  The little RCF's are pretty nifty but the voice coils are to small for me.  2.5" on the woof and and a 1" horn?
I'm witholding judgement until they are compared to the standard JBL SRX 712M. Thank you very much. Have a lovely day!
Chuck
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mike Pyle on May 10, 2014, 10:29:03 PM
Another good coax to consider is the Tannoy VX12 or VX12HP, or the VX15. These are some VERY sweet sounding compact cabinets but have a little taller profile on stage than the dedicated wedge designs. There is a good deal available on these passive models from Tannoy through the end of May.

They also make powered versions with a Lab Gruppen module, although those may be out of your budget.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 10, 2014, 11:59:55 PM
... The little RCF's are pretty nifty but the voice coils are to small for me.  2.5" on the woof and and a 1" horn?.

1.7" VC, 1" exit on horns.  Still 'small', but larger than quoted.
Title: new monitor purchase
Post by: Samuel Rees on May 11, 2014, 12:13:07 AM
Sure, big coil monitors are great. I love d&b m4, JBL VP7212, all flavors of microwedge/aphex... but they all cost more than the RCF. I don't have the kind of gigs that bring in that kind of money, or the vehicles to carry that kind of weight. So I switched out my  KW122/K10 for NX12 and dropped 13 lbs per box, solid additional SPL, and a coax design.  All for a reasonable price above KW122 but below the big dogs. This is why it came up here in this thread. So no complaints about voice coil length here :) JBL SRX712 might have a bigger voice cool, but from my "earball" the NX12 keeps up. Not to mention it's only 3 pounds heavier but requires no amp rack. I wouldn't rely on specs so much.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: cliff truesdell on May 12, 2014, 11:01:55 AM
Have any of you NX10/12SMA guys had the chance to use them as a main speaker? Smaller venue type stuff.

If not, would you consider one of these boxes at all?

I'm thinking about picking up a pair and trying to decide between the SMA and more standard trap NX box.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: chuck clark on May 12, 2014, 06:23:24 PM
JBL SRX712 might have a bigger voice cool, but from my "earball" the NX12 keeps up. Not to mention it's only 3 pounds heavier but requires no amp rack. I wouldn't rely on specs so much.

I don't rely only on specs. I did a 2 & 1/2 yr stint in a 2500 seat Casino showroom where the house monitors were 10 JBL 712 SRX and the acts were all names you would recognize and everyone used them unless they had in ears.  That's when I started liking them.
   Also I sometimes do festivals where the speakers are getting slammed for 10 hrs. at a stretch so bigger voice coils are just physically able to dissipate more heat and are less likely to suffer from power compression and burnout.
   Also w/ different acts changing out in festivals your having to move monitors around a good bit so having only 1 cable per box is a real labor saver. I already had a rack full of lightweight power amps so not having to carry all the extra extension cable for power distribution on stage was a plus.
   The NX's are getting a lot of love on here from people who actually own them so I respect that, it's just that after blowing up -er, I mean -mixing for 30 yrs. I've developed a distrust of speakers w/ smaller voice coils and statements like "totally feedback free". Yikes.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Samuel Rees on May 12, 2014, 06:58:55 PM
Haha fair enough. The PowerCon helps with the two cables a bit. I just feed with XLRs from the snake, but run my power in different loops. I know what you mean though.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 12, 2014, 11:58:47 PM
Have any of you NX10/12SMA guys had the chance to use them as a main speaker? Smaller venue type stuff.

If not, would you consider one of these boxes at all?

I'm thinking about picking up a pair and trying to decide between the SMA and more standard trap NX box.

I've used both the SMA10s and 12s on sticks as main for small gigs and I use them frequently as center fills. I prefer the SMA12s unprocessed, but neither sounds as good as my TT22A mains (at 2-3X the price, as you might expect).  The SMAs are still much better than the various MI-level wedges I used previously.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: Mark McFarlane on May 12, 2014, 11:59:13 PM
I've used both the SMA10s and 12s on sticks as main for small gigs and I use them frequently as center fills. I prefer the SMA12s unprocessed, but neither sounds as good as my TT22A mains (at 2-3X the price, as you might expect).  The SMAs are still much better than the various MI-level mains I used previously.
Title: Re: new monitor purchase
Post by: cliff truesdell on May 13, 2014, 01:37:37 AM
I've used both the SMA10s and 12s on sticks as main for small gigs and I use them frequently as center fills. I prefer the SMA12s unprocessed, but neither sounds as good as my TT22A mains (at 2-3X the price, as you might expect).  The SMAs are still much better than the various MI-level wedges I used previously.

Thanks Mark!