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Title: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Chip Dryden on September 20, 2012, 08:57:13 AM
What do you all think regarding replacing my QRX's with these SM80's? 20 lbs lighter, pole mountable(assumption).I can probably drop one amp since I bi-amp the QRX's,  I believe the Danley line doesn't need much if any processing????? I already use the TH118's. I do have concern if I decide to double up the system for larger/wider events- I guess these are not so array-able? Current use is for modern live country acts, pop rock stuff,  typical medium size clubs/sports bars, wedding halls etc... Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on September 20, 2012, 09:17:02 AM
Just a side note: The SM80 is intended to be arrayble hard packed. How well it does this, I don't know yet. I can tell you when I get the pair I'm expecting in October...
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: John Halliburton on September 20, 2012, 09:25:39 AM
Just a side note: The SM80 is intended to be arrayble hard packed. How well it does this, I don't know yet. I can tell you when I get the pair I'm expecting in October...

It may hard pack just fine, but I certainly don't see it as it's main use, how often do you need 160 degrees of horizontal coverage from a pair of tight packed loudspeakers?

Best regards,

John
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Chip Dryden on September 21, 2012, 06:35:40 AM
Now that I've re-read my post- 160 deg... Duh I should have realized that before I asked the question.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 21, 2012, 07:27:53 AM
What do you all think regarding replacing my QRX's with these SM80's? 20 lbs lighter, pole mountable(assumption).I can probably drop one amp since I bi-amp the QRX's,  I believe the Danley line doesn't need much if any processing????? I already use the TH118's. I do have concern if I decide to double up the system for larger/wider events- I guess these are not so array-able? Current use is for modern live country acts, pop rock stuff,  typical medium size clubs/sports bars, wedding halls etc... Thanks in advance!
The touring/portable version of the SM80 has a ple mount in it-as well as standard fly points.

THe SM80 is very flat out of the box-but it never hurts in some cases to add a eq point or two as needed-but none is required.  Of course a high pass is recommended and a low pass on the TH118's

If I was going to do hard rock type of gigs with the Sm80-I would want 3 TH118's to keep up with each SM80.  For lessor "bass heavy" gigs- 2 TH118's would work.  A single TH118 has a hard time keeping up.

Yes it is arrayable hard packed for 160°.  But you could "tilt them in" towards each other for lessor coverage if needed.  Yes there will be a little bit of interaction-but since all the sound originates from the same point in space in each box-there is much less interference in the overap region than with boxes that have spaced drivers.  I really doubt anybody would realize-unless you play pink noise as source material.

The 80° will cover most normal gigs and in the cases you are talking about a single unit per side would be enough.

We used a single SM80 at the WFX compact loudspeaker demo for the last couple of days-and the audience area was about 110 x110'-inside a room that was probably 300x300'  We used a single TH118 woofer.  There were a lot of people taking videos of the event-so maybe some of these will "pop up" on the web in the next few days.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on September 21, 2012, 09:05:40 AM

If I was going to do hard rock type of gigs with the Sm80-I would want 3 TH118's to keep up with each SM80.  For lessor "bass heavy" gigs- 2 TH118's would work.  A single TH118 has a hard time keeping up.

I can't wait to receive the two I've ordered and I'm very curious to see how loud they really are.

Your estimate of 2-3 TH118 pr. box is not far from my own estimated ratio of SH46s-to-TH118s, but the SH46 is from the specs a lot louder still...maybe we just have different tastes? :)
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 21, 2012, 01:04:45 PM
I can't wait to receive the two I've ordered and I'm very curious to see how loud they really are.

Your estimate of 2-3 TH118 pr. box is not far from my own estimated ratio of SH46s-to-TH118s, but the SH46 is from the specs a lot louder still...maybe we just have different tastes? :)
It depends on how much low end you like.

I did a hard rock show awhile back with 4 SH46's per side and 6 TH115's per side.  WHile it was plenty for the gig-the 115's were close to the limit-while the SH46's were just loafing along.

There are different tastes in "sound".  To Americans if you say 3 way-it means adding a sub.  To the Japanese it means adding a super tweeter.  We all "look" for different things.

A designer friend of mine was working on a system for a club and had it dialed in (or so he thought).  The owner didn't like it-and they kept adjusting.  Finally the owner was happy.  My friend said it sounded like a total "Ice pick throught he forehead"-very painful/harsh etc.

But that was the sound the guy was looking for.

I had a FOH guy tell me once that while my system sounded good-it didn't have that "make your eyeballs wince" type of sound that would "cut through".

I took that as a compliment-but he meant it as a negative comment.

Whatever-----------------

Either way I would like to hear your comments.  The SM80 is "my baby".
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 21, 2012, 01:41:38 PM
Either way I would like to hear your comments.  The SM80 is "my baby".

Congratulations on your postpartum figure!
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Rick Powell on September 21, 2012, 04:00:25 PM
The conundrum...you can get a pair of used QRX 212's for what one new SM80 will cost.  And we won't have any real chances for a shootout or anecdotal evidence until more SM80s come into the world.  Based on my previous experience with the SH50 (which sounded great but was a little unwieldy for my needs) and along comes a box that will do similar spl above 100 Hz, with the same sonic pedigree but with a wider coverage pattern and half the weight...sounds like a can't miss proposition if your budget allows.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Jay Barracato on September 21, 2012, 07:18:15 PM
And just to mention, a speaker that has the pattern control to array nicely is also easier to keep off of the walls and to turn in more filling the center without bleeding excessively back onto stage, even if you don't need the coverage of 2 boxes tight packed.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on September 21, 2012, 07:38:44 PM
The conundrum...you can get a pair of used QRX 212's for what one new SM80 will cost. *Snip* 

New QRX 212's are "around" $2000. So maybe a price for a good used set would be in the $3000 range. 
So the SM80s will be "around" $3000 each? A single 12 inch coaxial in a SH box.  :'( There goes my thoughts of a $1200 dollar or so Danley speaker... I'm sure its a great speaker but for those not informed of the Danley concept/rep it may be a hard sell.

Douglas R. Allen

Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Chip Dryden on September 22, 2012, 08:21:36 AM
The touring/portable version of the SM80 has a ple mount in it-as well as standard fly points.

THe SM80 is very flat out of the box-but it never hurts in some cases to add a eq point or two as needed-but none is required.  Of course a high pass is recommended and a low pass on the TH118's

If I was going to do hard rock type of gigs with the Sm80-I would want 3 TH118's to keep up with each SM80.  For lessor "bass heavy" gigs- 2 TH118's would work.  A single TH118 has a hard time keeping up.

Yes it is arrayable hard packed for 160°.  But you could "tilt them in" towards each other for lessor coverage if needed.  Yes there will be a little bit of interaction-but since all the sound originates from the same point in space in each box-there is much less interference in the overap region than with boxes that have spaced drivers.  I really doubt anybody would realize-unless you play pink noise as source material.

The 80° will cover most normal gigs and in the cases you are talking about a single unit per side would be enough.

We used a single SM80 at the WFX compact loudspeaker demo for the last couple of days-and the audience area was about 110 x110'-inside a room that was probably 300x300'  We used a single TH118 woofer.  There were a lot of people taking videos of the event-so maybe some of these will "pop up" on the web in the next few days.

 Great info here! I look forward to getting a opportunity to hear them in person.

Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Steve Hurt on September 22, 2012, 01:25:07 PM
QRX212's go for around 1600 new so they're about half of what the Danley's cost.
Comparing apples and oranges here
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Rick Powell on September 23, 2012, 08:44:51 PM
QRX212's go for around 1600 new so they're about half of what the Danley's cost.
Comparing apples and oranges here

A pair of QRX's used usually goes in the neighborhood between $1800-2200 depending on condition.  They don't often appear b/c their owners are apparently fond of hanging on to them.  The Danley SM80 list price is a little north of $3k a box...this does not mean you can't get them at a discount from a dealer, and I would advise anyone interested in pricing them out to get a quote from a dealer.  As far as "inexpensive" Danley boxes go, I have seen SH100 and SH95 go on the used market for less than $1000 a box, and I bought some very good 4 ohm TH 115's for $1250 apiece. 
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Goerge Thomas on September 24, 2012, 12:56:59 AM
A pair of QRX's used usually goes in the neighborhood between $1800-2200 depending on condition.  They don't often appear b/c their owners are apparently fond of hanging on to them.  The Danley SM80 list price is a little north of $3k a box...this does not mean you can't get them at a discount from a dealer, and I would advise anyone interested in pricing them out to get a quote from a dealer.  As far as "inexpensive" Danley boxes go, I have seen SH100 and SH95 go on the used market for less than $1000 a box, and I bought some very good 4 ohm TH 115's for $1250 apiece.

My vote is for the QRX 212's

As a QRX 212 owner I can safely say these are my go to box's after demoing many many speakers for the price range of under 2K a box for a weekend warrior setup over the past eight years running sound and a couple hundred shows.

I bought a new pair for $2600 4 years ago and they have seen me through everything. Power them well and get them up high and they are one of the smoother boxes for the money passive or bi amped.  Very little EQ needed to get them to sound right. I have 6 now as of this upcoming Tuesday having just bought a 3rd pair and don't hesitate to do large crowds indoor or out. That EV horn has a nice sparkle built into the passive X over around 12K or so that makes it really pleasant to hear for hours. Loud without fatigue and great smooth mid with the dual 12s that sound wonderful right up until their limit and then you back off. I do rock and electronic music mostly but the few classical shows with pianos and orchestras have been a pleasure to hear through my QRX tops. I have also seen the QRX 153 and 112's out and about and always sound very pleasant but I know that has a lot to do with the system setup and BE. They never disappoint for the correct sized crowds.

Owners hold onto them because they are rare to find used and often are well taken care of and heavily recommended by owners. I have gotten more compliments and questions on my de badged QRX 212's than any other speakers I have mixed on with my rig.

Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Chip Dryden on September 25, 2012, 07:48:09 AM

Agreed George!  It really does help to bounce our ideas out here in the forums and digest the responses. Thanks ALL-- I'll just stick with what I have for now. I've decided to keep a eye out for a used set of QRX's and another set of subs to do the larger rooms.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Tim Padrick on September 26, 2012, 02:18:41 AM
If I was going to do hard rock type of gigs with the Sm80-I would want 3 TH118's to keep up with each SM80.  For lessor "bass heavy" gigs- 2 TH118's would work.

"They" say that a TH118 can equal two or three boxes such as an SRX728.  If an SM80 can keep up with three TH118, this would mean that it could keep up with six to nine SRX728.  I find this to be highly implausible.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on September 26, 2012, 03:39:52 AM
"They" say that a TH118 can equal two or three boxes such as an SRX728.  If an SM80 can keep up with three TH118, this would mean that it could keep up with six to nine SRX728.  I find this to be highly implausible.

Yes, I too sometimes wonder about where along the chain these kinds of comparisons go astray. You can put together some pretty absurd chains - such as the one you mention.

In a few weeks I can tell you what the SM80 feels like side by side with a d&b Q7, which I'm hoping to replace...

Just goes to show that both people's acoustic memory and product specifications are to be taken with a grain of salt.

Just yesterday I had my latest experience about specifications when I found that the Powersoft M50Q rated 750W@8 ohms could drive my SRX712M wedges every bit as loud, and possibly a bit louder, than my SMRT P3600 rated 1050W @8 ohms. Now I know it's only about 1.5 dB, but still...
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 26, 2012, 06:59:18 AM
"They" say that a TH118 can equal two or three boxes such as an SRX728.  If an SM80 can keep up with three TH118, this would mean that it could keep up with six to nine SRX728.  I find this to be highly implausible.
The term "keep up" means very different things to different people.

If you mean that keep up means to have the same max level-then that is VERY different than what I said-which is I would want at least 2-3 TH118's per SM80 to do loud rock bands.

Now maybe I like a lot more bass than others-but I was talking about situations in which the sub are run a good bit ( like 15dB ish) hotter than the mains.

If you are not running the subs (and not just the "alignment" but more about the mix ( lots of kick-deep bass etc)  as hot as I sometimes like (music style correct), then you won't need as many subs.

You also have to consider what you mean by "keeping up with other subs".  At what freq?  At 80hz it may be one thing-at 35 Hz it may be a completely different number-based on the ACTUAL freq response of the cabinets.

As with all things audio-you CANNOT dumb things down to a single simple number.  That is why I said 2-3TH118's when doing loud rock bands.  If I was doing lighter types of music-the number would be different.

I am sure different people milage will vary-just like driving differences make on real milage.
Title: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Sam Feine on September 26, 2012, 07:46:07 AM
Not to hijack the thread but personally I just wish that I could afford either box.... Which begs the question, does Danley make an affordable (top) box for the "loungers" such as myself?


Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: John Halliburton on September 26, 2012, 10:14:33 AM
New QRX 212's are "around" $2000. So maybe a price for a good used set would be in the $3000 range. 
So the SM80s will be "around" $3000 each? A single 12 inch coaxial in a SH box.  :'( There goes my thoughts of a $1200 dollar or so Danley speaker... I'm sure its a great speaker but for those not informed of the Danley concept/rep it may be a hard sell.

Douglas R. Allen

I want to point out that you may very well only need a pair of SM80 cabinets to perform the job of four of the QRX.

Ivan's point about the Danley products getting overlapped for narrower coverage patterns is one that should be emphasized-the first large system of the old TD1 cabinets I heard was at the King Biscuit Blues festival in Helena, Arkansas, by Mike Grimm of CSS Audio in Peoria(he still provides).  Twelve per side, in a 3x4 configuration, firing into the the side of a grass covered levee next to the Mississippi River.  About 15k lining this to listen, and I spent all weekend there, walking thru the crowd up to the top of the levee, side to side, many times for a lot of different artists on stage. 

One of the coolest things I noted was the absence of degenerative comb filtering-where any two rows of speakers in the hang overlapped coverage, it only got a little louder.

Mike has since mentioned in conversation that the main stage could be covered by less without any problem, there's plenty of horsepower.

Best regards,

John
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Rick Powell on September 27, 2012, 02:00:50 AM
Not to hijack the thread but personally I just wish that I could afford either box.... Which begs the question, does Danley make an affordable (top) box for the "loungers" such as myself?

Depending on your needs and your ability to scrounge the used market.  AFAIK, the SM100 (formerly SH100) is the most inexpensive box in the line (or maybe the Micro).  I previously stated I have seen the SH/SM100 and the SH95 pop up used for sub $1000 prices.  Neither box comes close to keeping up with an SM80 for sheer volume capability, but every Danley box's SQ is outstanding.  Most of the other boxes are either too new to be found much on the used market, or too high end to be available at "low" (sub $2k?) prices.  I did see a single SH50 just now on ebay for $1500, has a few dents and dings.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on September 27, 2012, 09:55:54 AM
The Danley SM80 list price is a little north of $3k a box...

Just a detail, but it's $2999 MSRP.
Title: Re: New Danley SM80 VS QRX 212
Post by: Rick Powell on September 27, 2012, 06:51:13 PM
Just a detail, but it's $2999 MSRP.

Thx, I heard that a few months ago, and then that the final pricing went up a bit.