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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Alex Rigodanzo on May 07, 2014, 09:07:49 PM
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The SRX722 would be the holy grail for our rig. We currently use the old, giant-size 4731 & 4732. Of course we all know you can't find 722's to save your soul. Is there anything out there that can compete in the size, weight, output and price range of the 722? Specifically a 2x12 + horn that isn't huge, heavy and stupid expensive? I'm still astonished JBL isn't making a 2x12 anymore.
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I feel your pain. I picked up a couple more 722's last year while I could still find them. They do show up every once in a while but it seems those that have them are holding onto them. I can give you a heck of a deal on a couple of 4731's if you could use them.
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The SRX722 would be the holy grail for our rig. We currently use the old, giant-size 4731 & 4732. Of course we all know you can't find 722's to save your soul. Is there anything out there that can compete in the size, weight, output and price range of the 722? Specifically a 2x12 + horn that isn't huge, heavy and stupid expensive? I'm still astonished JBL isn't making a 2x12 anymore.
I know someone who is (last I knew, in February, was still) sitting on 4 brand new, in-the-box (other then being taken out to be tested) SRX722s. PM me if you want me to make an introduction.
-Ray
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While Ray works his magic in the NOS 722 dept, my mind wanders off to the budget side of things. What if I pull the horns and xovers out of our 4731's and build some 722 size cabs with said horns and a pair of Eminence Kappalite neo 12's? Could sell the JBL 12's on feeBay to partly offset the cost of the Kappas.
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The SRX722 would be the holy grail for our rig. We currently use the old, giant-size 4731 & 4732. Of course we all know you can't find 722's to save your soul. Is there anything out there that can compete in the size, weight, output and price range of the 722? Specifically a 2x12 + horn that isn't huge, heavy and stupid expensive? I'm still astonished JBL isn't making a 2x12 anymore.
EV QRX 212
The SRX 722 was was one of the options that I considered purchasing, but right around the time I was looking to get my system they were being discontinued. After much research and the reviews from this forum I ended up going with the EV QRX 212. A little research on the forums will bring up a couple threads on these speakers.
Michael
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=5567.0
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EV QRX 212
The SRX 722 was was one of the options that I considered purchasing, but right around the time I was looking to get my system they were being discontinued. After much research and the reviews from this forum I ended up going with the EV QRX 212. A little research on the forums will bring up a couple threads on these speakers.
Michael
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=5567.0
The QRX 212 is a bit heaver, (not Neo) but that means it takes way less power to achieve the same SPL and is a really decent sounding box..
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The QRX 212 is a bit heaver, (not Neo) but that means it takes way less power to achieve the same SPL and is a really decent sounding box..
Uh... no. The magnet material is not indicative of either the voltage necessary to move the cone nor the current required to keep it moving.
The rest... decent sounding box, yes.
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The QRX 212 is a bit heaver, (not Neo) but that means it takes way less power to achieve the same SPL and is a really decent sounding box..
CAN you build an Array of 3 box per side with the qrx ?
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As many people have mentioned, the only equivalent cabinet is the QRx212 without exceeding the equivalent the budget.
Every once in a while a pair of SRX722s do pop-up.
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The QRX 212 is a bit heaver, (not Neo) but that means it takes way less power to achieve the same SPL and is a really decent sounding box..
The QRx212, are only an "extra" 4.5 lbs per speaker. You don't notice the weight difference.
In my power comparisons between the SRX722 and QRx212... I didn't notice the need to any extra/double the power to get the SRX722 to the same volume of the QRx212; according to my IT4000 the In/Out meters looked the same.
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The spec on what is being talked about here is the JBLs reported 97 db, to the EVs 102. That's a fairly substantial difference.
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The spec on what is being talked about here is the JBLs reported 97 db, to the EVs 102. That's a fairly substantial difference.
So do we believe specs or personal experience?
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Fulcrum DX12xx is another dual 12" 2 way that sounds great, price isn't much more.
Typed on a virtual keyboard.
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Fulcrum DX12xx is another dual 12" 2 way that sounds great, price isn't much more.
Typed on a virtual keyboard.
Until you factor in the cost of an "required" amp or DSP. Last time, I check the DSP amps where; Lab Gruppen PLM, PowerSoft and Crown Itech-HD and for a simple stand alone DSP there was XTA, Lake, & Bi-Amp.
I went FA22ac and the cost is on par with 4x VRX932LAP. But a 2x QRx212/SRX722 & XTi-2 is half the price.
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Why compare Fulcrum with powersoft, with SRX with XTI? SRX or STX with the real iTech HD is pretty expensive as well. I think that comparison underlines why your new fulcrums are such a good deal Matt!
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Uh... no. The magnet material is not indicative of either the voltage necessary to move the cone nor the current required to keep it moving.
The rest... decent sounding box, yes.
I thought I read somewhere that Neo took twice the power to achieve the same volume. Maybe it was a bad dream. Why did the SRX literature state that it required three times the power as the QRX?
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I thought I read somewhere that Neo took twice the power to achieve the same volume. Maybe it was a bad dream. Why did the SRX literature state that it required three times the power as the QRX?
SRX700's came out when big wattage speaker was the only way to go and made an easier sell. Well it still an issue today for the Noobs, but use veterans are looking for the most effective speakers.
What I've noticed with the SRX gear, you don't need a ton a power to make a good amount of volume. They just take the higher wattage abuse better. I'm saying this while I power them with the Itechs, but the limiters are set at RMS value.
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SRX700's came out when big wattage speaker was the only way to go and made an easier sell. Well it still an issue today for the Noobs, but use veterans are looking for the most effective speakers.
What I've noticed with the SRX gear, you don't need a ton a power to make a good amount of volume. They just take the higher wattage abuse better. I'm saying this while I power them with the Itechs, but the limiters are set at RMS value.
Thanks Matt. I never owned the JBL. I think the power requirements actually scared me off.. I had the 212's and put them on a PL236, one a side and had plenty of headroom for what I was doing at the time
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Maybe when guys say "it takes a lot of power to light up the JBLs...." they're talking about sparks and flames, I dunno. Brother Matt is right again, though, about the JBLs taking some serious thermal abuse and living to see the next gig.
I suggest folks get to know their speakers by finding the -3dB point of power compression and then contemplate the implications.
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Specifically a 2x12 + horn that isn't huge, heavy and stupid expensive?
Tannoy VX12.2Q, or the powered VXP12.2Q.
http://www.tannoypro.com/#Page=Product&Id=121.402
http://www.tannoypro.com/#Page=Product&Id=122.410
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While Ray works his magic in the NOS 722 dept, my mind wanders off to the budget side of things. What if I pull the horns and xovers out of our 4731's and build some 722 size cabs with said horns and a pair of Eminence Kappalite neo 12's? Could sell the JBL 12's on feeBay to partly offset the cost of the Kappas.
Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the EV QRX212. The more I think about this, the more I want to build cabs with the horns and xovers from our existing JBL's and the Eminence 3012lf Neo drivers. I don't expect it will equal the 722's, but I'm pretty sure they would meet our needs with a minimal investment (selling off the JBL 12's to defray the cost). Plus I like rockin the home-built stuff!
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-SRX722-two-way-dual-12-speakers-2-/151297960723?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item233a0fab13
Seems overpriced for a used pair though...
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-SRX722-two-way-dual-12-speakers-2-/151297960723?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item233a0fab13
Seems overpriced for a used pair though...
Apparently not as they sold in about 12 seconds. That's what happens when a well liked product is discontinued without an equal replacement.
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There's another listing for 4 SR-X 4732's but they're 90x50 and apparently the drivers are not stock.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-SR-X-4732s-Qty-4-Four-/151284953060?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speaker_Drivers_Horns&hash=item2339492fe4
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There's another listing for 4 SR-X 4732's but they're 90x50 and apparently the drivers are not stock.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-SR-X-4732s-Qty-4-Four-/151284953060?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speaker_Drivers_Horns&hash=item2339492fe4
That's what we have now. Two 4731's and two 4732's. Trying to downsize and especially lighten.
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Oops, completely forgot about the OP. Don't shoot me!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I came across this advert on Craigslist for a pair of JBL SRX 722: http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/msg/4442211683.html (Jerome, Idaho)
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I came across this advert on Craigslist for a pair of JBL SRX 722: http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/msg/4442211683.html (Jerome, Idaho)
$1300 a piece is way out of our budget. We could maybe manage a grand shipped per cab. I'm really leaning strongly towards building our own. Just have to run it by the guys this weekend (in particular the owner of the 4731's I want to cannibalize).
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What if I pull the horns and xovers out of our 4731's and build some 722 size cabs with said horns and a pair of Eminence Kappalite neo 12's? Could sell the JBL 12's on feeBay to partly offset the cost of the Kappas.
You probably couldn't re-use the crossover as they should be optimised for the original 12" drivers - any other 12" will have at least slightly different frequency response and impedance curves, so you'd end up with a skewed response. If bi-amping, that wouldn't be a problem of course.
If you do go for the Kappalites, you probably want the 3012HO rather than the 3012LF you mention in a later post - the HO will get louder on less power, unless you plan on running without subs in which case you'd want the extended range of the LF model.
HTH,
David.
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You probably couldn't re-use the crossover as they should be optimised for the original 12" drivers - any other 12" will have at least slightly different frequency response and impedance curves, so you'd end up with a skewed response. If bi-amping, that wouldn't be a problem of course.
If you do go for the Kappalites, you probably want the 3012HO rather than the 3012LF you mention in a later post - the HO will get louder on less power, unless you plan on running without subs in which case you'd want the extended range of the LF model.
HTH,
David.
The HO has much too high sensitivity. A pair of them would be 6-7db louder than the horn. The LF specs are closer to the JBL. I do realize the xover is "optimized" for the original 12, but I doubt there is a significant enough difference to really be noticeable with a bar band unless you compared them side by side with other JBLs. In your living room with flac files sure, but for live music I'll bet they would still sound better than any number of lower tier speakers (like the mPro and SF) that I've got perfectly satisfactory sound out of in the past. Those old 4700 series aren't exactly "hi-fi" to begin with.
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I say the old JBL cabs will be worth more to sell complete and build new cabs with your selection of Kappa 12" woofers and choice of horn and driver. The magnet and driver assy on those older JBL horns were just as big and heavy as the woofers. I am lost on why JBL feels there is no market for a replacement for the 722.
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I say the old JBL cabs will be worth more to sell complete and build new cabs with your selection of Kappa 12" woofers and choice of horn and driver. The magnet and driver assy on those older JBL horns were just as big and heavy as the woofers. I am lost on why JBL feels there is no market for a replacement for the 722.
The cabs are old, beat to shit and there's no market around here (so they'd have to ship). I can't see getting much for them that's why I thought I would utilize the parts I want and sell the rest.
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The HO has much too high sensitivity. A pair of them would be 6-7db louder than the horn.
If you really believe the 3012HO is that much louder then the JBL HF then you could use only one 12" per HF - that would save you far more size, cost and weight than a dual 3012LF design.
Of course, the difference isn't that big and the HO's won't outrun the JBL HF (over most of their range) anyway.
Cheers,
David.
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The HO has much too high sensitivity. A pair of them would be 6-7db louder than the horn.
What? No... a pair of 3012HO's are no more that 103dB @1w below 1khz before any correction is applied(look at the graph not the spec sheet) and the 2447j is 111dB.
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I know someone who has 6 of the SRX 722's for sale. These were installed in a retreat center, they all are in good shape. We just sold and installed a DAS Aero 12 rig. The 722's along with subs and several amps are for sale. I know they would like to move them soon. Heres a link to a craigslist post: http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/msg/4409050389.html
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What? No... a pair of 3012HO's are no more that 103dB @1w below 1khz before any correction is applied(look at the graph not the spec sheet) and the 2447j is 111dB.
The JBL 2206 is 95db.
The 3012LF is 95.5db
The 3012HO is 100.5db!
The 4731A cab is 99db
If I'm going to be using the original JBL xover, the LF is a much closer match to the 2206 than the HO.
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I know someone who has 6 of the SRX 722's for sale. These were installed in a retreat center, they all are in good shape. We just sold and installed a DAS Aero 12 rig. The 722's along with subs and several amps are for sale. I know they would like to move them soon. Heres a link to a craigslist post: http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/msg/4409050389.html
The band seems in agreement that the funds aren't there to buy 722's. When the previous soundman retired, he took his trailer ($4k to replace), snake ($450), board ($900), rack gear ($500), 2 monitors ($500), sold the band a used distro @ $100, and a couple hundred more in assorted ext cords, cables, etc. Everyone is feeling tapped out right now.
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The band seems in agreement that the funds aren't there to buy 722's. When the previous soundman retired, he took his trailer ($4k to replace), snake ($450), board ($900), rack gear ($500), 2 monitors ($500), sold the band a used distro @ $100, and a couple hundred more in assorted ext cords, cables, etc. Everyone is feeling tapped out right now.
You don't need a unicorn speaker system, you need to hire one of the guys posting here. Someone who's doing it for love, not money.
It's a commercial decision for you and your bandmates. I get it, and if you're playing to accompany alcohol sales/hook up possibilities you probably don't need to spend a huge amount of money on audio. You'll get more comments and ROI on cool lighting. If you're playing further up the money tree, the quality of audio gets more important as does the appearance of the gear. You'll have to assess what level of perceived sound quality, aesthetics, transport friendly = gig potential, up front and long term costs, budget constraints.
That said, if you're going to buy/build a speaker system I strongly suggest purchasing up to the "next level" of whatever your market is. This will save you from making a future purchase that largely duplicates your current spending. You want to avoid paying twice for the same capability, even if it seems easier to buy twice. And the wrong product at the "right price" is still the wrong product...
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
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You don't need a unicorn speaker system, you need to hire one of the guys posting here. Someone who's doing it for love, not money.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
We are definitely doing it for love, not money. The only reason this whole speaker topic came up, is the youngest guy in the band is 42, several have physical limitations and we're all tired of moving around 136lb 4731's. The previous soundman was a bull and he carried and lifted them onto the subs by himself. Now we're struggling with two people doing it.
What's really holding us back in making a change is, as I mentioned above, we're not in a market where we could easily unload the 4731's and given their cosmetic condition, we'd get killed on price anyway. I had hoped after a few gigs, one of the guys would have been sick enough dealing with them to whip out the credit card or dip into the retirement to buy a set of 722's (as I did to buy the board and rack gear, and the singer did to buy the trailer and monitors)
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We are definitely doing it for love, not money. The only reason this whole speaker topic came up, is the youngest guy in the band is 42, several have physical limitations and we're all tired of moving around 136lb 4731's. The previous soundman was a bull and he carried and lifted them onto the subs by himself. Now we're struggling with two people doing it.
What's really holding us back in making a change is, as I mentioned above, we're not in a market where we could easily unload the 4731's and given their cosmetic condition, we'd get killed on price anyway. I had hoped after a few gigs, one of the guys would have been sick enough dealing with them to whip out the credit card or dip into the retirement to buy a set of 722's (as I did to buy the board and rack gear, and the singer did to buy the trailer and monitors)
My next "milestone" birthday will be number 60. I've become very aware of my physical being over the last decade. When I complain to my doctor about new aches, pains and other sundry issues, she looks at me and says "Tim, you're not 19 anymore." I congratulate her on the quick read of my chart and remind her that I've worked on theatrical shows with her son. My actual concern is that she'll retire before I do...
At any rate, kind of like "good, fast, cheap - pick any 2" there is "loud, lightweight, cheap - pick 2" in audio. You guys need a rig that weighs nothing, takes little space, covers the venue and is inexpensive. That's why I called it a Unicorn... Often mentioned but only seen by small children and the 'perceptually enhanced.'
Usually on a budget I suggest retired big-boy PA, but that kind of gear is big, stupid heavy and probably overkill for you guys. You really need a plastic-box main system and a couple of matching subs, but that's out of your budget - anything that sounds good will be too much cash, even used. I wish I had some better options to offer, Alex.
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The rig we have is actually quite good. Better than most in this area. The only "issue" is the size and weight of the tops and that's something we can learn to live with until another options arises. I still like the idea of building something in the same form factor as the 722. It would be bonus points with other bands when they ask wtf are those and we can say we built them. I've built several sub boxes over the years including an exact copy of a 4715 loaded with Audiopile JBL clones.