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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Riley Casey on August 15, 2018, 10:14:37 PM
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I'm trying to program an X-Touch compact to control the faders and mutes on XR18s and the Behringer documentation doesn't even rise to the level of pathetic. Has anyone successfully programmed this combo? The Music Group discussion board for the product is a bit hazy on whether it works at all but at least a couple of You tube videos seem to indicate it does but without providing any useful details.
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I'm trying to program an X-Touch compact to control the faders and mutes on XR18s and the Behringer documentation doesn't even rise to the level of pathetic. Has anyone successfully programmed this combo? The Music Group discussion board for the product is a bit hazy on whether it works at all but at least a couple of You tube videos seem to indicate it does but without providing any useful details.
I use the bigger X Touch with an X32R. Once it connects it works perfectly.
Haven't tried with an XR.
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I use the bigger X Touch with an X32R. Once it connects it works perfectly.
Haven't tried with an XR.
Works well with an XR too. Easier if you get or make an overlay to label the buttons correctly. I have files if anyone wants them (full size X-Touch only).
Steve'
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Update! I received a response on the Behringer discussion board telling me to turn off the "Global" setting in the XTC editor app and that has everything now working as expected EXCEPT for invoking a MIDI dump to the controller from the mixer. Apparently this isn't a documented function, well actually there are no documented functions when you get right down to it so its a complete hunt and peck proposition but the most experienced user on their forum seems to have been able to do it so now I'm hoping for more info on making that operation work. Currently the controller doesn't really know that state of the mixer until you operate all of the controls on the surface to bring them in sync.
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I don't have any thing that would help in your quest. Actually, if you succeed, i'd like to know how you did it since it likely will come up in my future as well.
I do know this. The XTouch Remote and the XTouch COMPACT remote have almost NOTHING in common with each other operationally WRT controlling any of the Behringer Digital Mixers. They look similar, but work completely differently, which causes all kinds of confusion.
The Full-Size unit has presets to control the XR1* and X32 stuff. The Compact is more like a generic Midi Controller. I actually had an easier time programming a Compact to control Yamaha QL mixers than i did getting them to work with other B Products...
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Well it now all works including the MIDI dump function. The change required to implement that was to simply set a different encoder button to the dump function and that did the trick. The lack of manufacturer support is all pretty silly when viewed from the experience with real vendors like Yamaha but I suppose when looked at from the dollar value of the hardware involved its pleasantly surprising that the lights come on when you plug it in.
Brian I can send you a copy of the editor file that I've come up with for the XTC but as you say I have no idea if it bears any relationship to the larger controller. Maybe we just need to have a beer over it.
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Well it now all works including the MIDI dump function. The change required to implement that was to simply set a different encoder button to the dump function and that did the trick. The lack of manufacturer support is all pretty silly when viewed from the experience with real vendors like Yamaha but I suppose when looked at from the dollar value of the hardware involved its pleasantly surprising that the lights come on when you plug it in.
Brian I can send you a copy of the editor file that I've come up with for the XTC but as you say I have no idea if it bears any relationship to the larger controller. Maybe we just need to have a beer over it.
Well, the idea of having a beer over it is the most appealing for sure... :)
That being said, i have the XTC and would love a copy of the editor file you ended up with that gave you the functionality you wanted.
Also, that beer might have to wait a minute or two since i moved to Savannah. :) That being said, i'll be up your way in October so i'll try to come find you. I owe you a beer for that snafu i caused at Nat Geo anyway....
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Well it now all works including the MIDI dump function. The change required to implement that was to simply set a different encoder button to the dump function and that did the trick. The lack of manufacturer support is all pretty silly when viewed from the experience with real vendors like Yamaha but I suppose when looked at from the dollar value of the hardware involved its pleasantly surprising that the lights come on when you plug it in.
Brian I can send you a copy of the editor file that I've come up with for the XTC but as you say I have no idea if it bears any relationship to the larger controller. Maybe we just need to have a beer over it.
I thought that was you over there asking the questions.
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Brian, I posted a copy of the Xtc editor settings I used on the Behinger forum. Let me know what if anything it does if you load it. I'm still sorting out all the secret handshake elements of this product.
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That being said, i have the XTC and would love a copy of the editor file you ended up with that gave you the functionality you wanted.
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I look for the file in the forums but I did not find it, Can you please can give the url where I can get it?
Thanks
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Hi, I'm also looking for the program/settings to control the XR-18 with an X-Touch Compact. Unfortunately I can't find the Behringer forum you mention below - could you post here or point me to the forum?
Brian, I posted a copy of the Xtc editor settings I used on the Behinger forum. Let me know what if anything it does if you load it. I'm still sorting out all the secret handshake elements of this product.
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The Behinger forum has been changed drastically since I posted that. I’ll see if I can recover the files and post them here.
Hi, I'm also looking for the program/settings to control the XR-18 with an X-Touch Compact. Unfortunately I can't find the Behringer forum you mention below - could you post here or point me to the forum?
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Thanks, would appreciate any help! I have the two devices hooked together with midi cables but there's not any noticeable interaction.
The Behinger forum has been changed drastically since I posted that. I’ll see if I can recover the files and post them here.
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Thanks, would appreciate any help! I have the two devices hooked together with midi cables but there's not any noticeable interaction.
The midi in and out needs to be turned on in the XR same goes for the x32.
You have to turn on the midi Rx (receive) and the Tx (transmit)
If you are using midi cables then enable on the DIN connection.
LOU
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Thanks, would appreciate any help! I have the two devices hooked together with midi cables but there's not any noticeable interaction.
I haven’t used the X-Touch Compact (XTC) lately so I am going from memory and also copy and pasting somethings that I already wrote about it. On the XR18 in the setup page the Audio/Midi tab you need to have the DIN Rx and DIN Tx selected (checked). As was mentioned already.
I have played with the XTC and the XR18 a couple of years ago and I think the way it works is very similar to the M32 that I have used the XTC with. That is why some of the text below refers to the M32.
What I have written below refers to having the XR18 hooked up to a Windows PC and running X-TOUCH Editor to set up the XTC. I think you need to be connected using the USB port on the XR18 and I think you need to not have the Midi cables connected when doing the configuration in the X-TOUCH Editor. When you are done with the configuration and have loaded it from the editor to the XR18 you will need to disconnect the USB cable from the XR18 and hook up the MIDI cables.
I assume that you have already figured it out but I just wanted to mention. As it comes from the factory the X-Touch Compact (XTC) doesn’t play too nice with the M32 (edit to add - and I assume also the XR18). I think it is set to control a DAW from the factory.
I did a factory reset to be sure I hadn’t set something wrong when I discovered that the main issue is the global channel needs to not be on 1 or 2. I turned it to off and that seems to work fine. If you set it to 1 you get a midi loop that drives the M32 and XTC crazy. If you set it to 2 then as you bring up a fader about halfway up the mute comes on. Because the mute function is on channel Midi global CH-2. I assume that you have also discovered that the factory default settings for the midi CC number for the channels is off by 1. All of the preset CC# for the faders are off by 1. Channel one should start with CC0 not CC1. So as it comes from the factory fader 1 on the XTC controls fader 2 on the M32. And so on down the line. That is because 1 is actually 0.
Some of this may be able to be set using the buttons on the XTC but I have always used the X-TOUCH Editor. On the XTC there are a bunch of different modes that it can be put in I suggest reading the manual that came with it.
The Midi implementation in the X32/M32/XR18 mixers is limited. The X-Touch Compact can do A LOT more with Midi then the mixers can. The limitation is the mixers not the X-Touch compact. I don’t have any experience using the MC (Mackie Control mode). That is another option with the XTC.
I hope this is of some help.
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Thanks, Lou and Kevin. I do have the midi enabled for DIN on the XR18 but that didn't do it... I'm guessing the issue is getting the midi channel set correctly. I did notice that moving the faders caused things to mute. I think my next step has to be to connect a PC to the XTC and aim to program the midi channels. I'm still hoping Riley will find the code he already worked his way through but I can probably get pretty far with the extra advice offered so far.
If there's anything more I should be thinking about please say so - I'm really grateful for what you've offered thus far!
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Thanks, Lou and Kevin. I do have the midi enabled for DIN on the XR18 but that didn't do it... I'm guessing the issue is getting the midi channel set correctly. I did notice that moving the faders caused things to mute. I think my next step has to be to connect a PC to the XTC and aim to program the midi channels. I'm still hoping Riley will find the code he already worked his way through but I can probably get pretty far with the extra advice offered so far.
If there's anything more I should be thinking about please say so - I'm really grateful for what you've offered thus far!
If you send me a PM with your email address I will send you 2 files to load into the XTC (using the X-Touch editor) that should give you faders and mutes on channels 1-8 on layer A and faders and mutes on channels 9-16 on layer B. Keep in mind that the Midi capabilities of on the XR18 and the M32 and X32 are severely limited. So there isn't a lot you can control with the XTC. The XTC can control any Midi device and is very capable as long as that device has a thorough MIDI implementation. There may be other ways (like (Mackie Control MC) to get more control but I am not familiar with them. I used the XTC as a fader expansion wing (not the Wing console) to give me more faders at my fingertips when doing musical theater shows and for that usage it worked great for me. I am using the past tense because for a while I have been using 2 Midas M32 mixers so I haven't needed to use the XTC.
I can also send you the X-Air Series Manual and on page 31 of it is the Midi implementation info that to me looks the same as the X32/M32 mixers and that will show you the things that can be controlled on the XR18 with Midi. I was going to try and paste that page here but I couldn't copy it from the PDF.
BTW were are you located? I am in the USA and if you are also I might be able to help you with a phone call.
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I have yet to find the text documentation I wrote. up when I made those posts to the Behringer forum and the forum itself seems to have trashed it's content from before it was revamped. I did find some screen shots of editor settings. Let me know if any of these help you out.
Thanks, would appreciate any help! I have the two devices hooked together with midi cables but there's not any noticeable interaction.
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Seems I have to do these one at a time
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3 of 4
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4 of 4
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With the help of Riley, Kevin, and all the other nice people on this board I have been able to get the XTC programmed and controlling the XR-18! I'll document for others while this is all fresh in my mind.
Hi, I'm also looking for the program/settings to control the XR-18 with an X-Touch Compact...
First, as Kevin mentioned, the XR-18 is pretty limited in what it can do from a MIDI perspective. It basically just sends and receives on channels 1, 2, and 3, using MIDI Continuous Controller (CC) values 0-31. Generally speaking Channel 1 is for setting levels (0-127), Channel 2 is for muting/unmuting, and Channel 3 is for panning. The one more advanced thing it can do is use Program Change (Prg Chg) on Channel 1 to recall snapshots 1-64 stored in the mixer.
There's an A and a B layer that you can program separately, but I was able to get everything I wanted to do on one layer so I just programmed them both the same.
To program: Run the X-Touch program on a PC, then load a .bin file if you have one you want to use. The one I'm using is here - https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApLgfvqKKgvyhOoGAY_BokzHxXLEIg?e=F1bbmC
- Connect the USB cable between the XTC and your laptop, and disconnect the midi cables between the XTC and the XR-18.
- Load in the .bin file
- Make sure the global channel is set to off
- Dump it to the XTC (Layer A or B or both)
- Disconnect the USB cable
- Re-connect the MIDI cables
Make sure the XR-18 is set to TX and RX MIDI on the DIN option, and you should be good to go.
My program is set as follows:
Inputs:
1-8 on the faders and inputs 9-16 on encoders 9-16. There are mute buttons under each fader for channels 1-8, and mute buttons for channels 9-16 by pushing the encoder knob itself.
Aux input 17-18 is on encoders 7 and 8 (twinned)
Outputs:
The main out is on the main fader, with the mute below it.
Aux outputs 1-6 are on encoders 1-6, with mutes using the buttons directly below.
The one thing I still have to try is recalling a snapshot to "sync" all the XTC controls to the mixer. The way it is now you have to touch a control knob or fader to get it and the XR-18 in sync. But I think I'll be able to hit one currently-unused button on the XTC to recall a snapshot and then have everything lined up as a result.
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How about the setting for the Global CH in X-Touch edit?
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Modified my write up above to cover this - I set the global channel to off.
How about the setting for the Global CH in X-Touch edit?
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This isn't helpful at all in getting the Compact to work well. But, I just thought I'd mention that I have a standard X-Touch and have it set up with a WiFi dongle which connects to my home or show network and it works pretty darn well with either the XR18 or M32C that I use. Much less headache than all this.
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This isn't helpful at all in getting the Compact to work well. But, I just thought I'd mention that I have a standard X-Touch and have it set up with a WiFi dongle which connects to my home or show network and it works pretty darn well with either the XR18 or M32C that I use. Much less headache than all this.
Yeah, the standard X-Touch is plug and play for any XR18 or X/M32 applications. There are even overlays available online to show you what all the controls are mapped to. The compact [and mini] are categorically NOT. Which is kinda super frustrating, but there it is.
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This isn't helpful at all in getting the Compact to work well. But, I just thought I'd mention that I have a standard X-Touch and have it set up with a WiFi dongle which connects to my home or show network and it works pretty darn well with either the XR18 or M32C that I use. Much less headache than all this.
Yup, the Compact is being asked to do things outside its ecosystem. The kludge seems to work.
I'm not sure how expensive the Compact has gotten, but the I paid about half the current rate for my X-Touch 2 years ago.
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Yeah, the standard X-Touch is plug and play for any XR18 or X/M32 applications.
It probably is now. When I got mine I had to download the firmware to allow it to control mixers as it was originally just a DAW controller.
Steve.
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It probably is now. When I got mine I had to download the firmware to allow it to control mixers as it was originally just a DAW controller.
Steve.
True. You do need the latest firmware.
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Well it now all works including the MIDI dump function. The change required to implement that was to simply set a different encoder button to the dump function and that did the trick. The lack of manufacturer support is all pretty silly when viewed from the experience with real vendors like Yamaha but I suppose when looked at from the dollar value of the hardware involved its pleasantly surprising that the lights come on when you plug it in.
Brian I can send you a copy of the editor file that I've come up with for the XTC but as you say I have no idea if it bears any relationship to the larger controller. Maybe we just need to have a beer over it.
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Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.
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