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Title: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 15, 2013, 11:44:42 AM
Doesn't look good for them returning - dealing with all them troublesome customers was too much for them I guess :( . Anyways there's an unofficial user's group for the DL1608 over here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dl1608

I'm hoping they have some good news for us at NAMM. Until then I'm starting a rumor that they are being bought out by Behringer ;) .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Greg_Cameron on January 15, 2013, 12:40:22 PM
Yup several days has been a couple of weeks now. They never were very good at running their boards or maintaining the server. To me it's another demonstration of Loud's disconnect with customers.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Scott Harris on January 15, 2013, 12:53:59 PM
I'm hoping they have some good news for us at NAMM. Until then I'm starting a rumor that they are being bought out by Behringer ;) .

I heard Gemini bought them.   :-[
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: john lutz on January 15, 2013, 01:11:11 PM
- dealing with all them troublesome customers was too much for them I guess

similar to Crown amp forum - no official support for a long time.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 15, 2013, 02:10:12 PM
I heard Gemini bought them.   :-[
Ooo - I like that one!
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Vinny DAgostino on January 15, 2013, 02:20:50 PM
Are you sure it's just not being run by the same people that run the boards over at Harmony Central :-)
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 15, 2013, 02:46:26 PM
Are you sure it's just not being run by the same people that run the boards over at Harmony Central :-)
They were running fine until shut down on 1/4 "for maintenance". Mackie sure doesn't seem to want to rebuild their credibility with BS like that :( ! As for HC, I do know that by Friday the switchover will be done and hopefully all will be better than ever :) !
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Scott Harris on January 15, 2013, 05:51:16 PM
As for HC, I do know that by Friday the switchover will be done and hopefully all will be better than ever :) !

I think the HC upgrade was last week and the new improved v3 if what's in place now.   ::)
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 15, 2013, 05:56:02 PM
I think the HC upgrade was last week and the new improved v3 if what's in place now.   ::)
I think it would be less aggravating if they just shut it down until the new software is ready to "go live".
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Greg_Cameron on January 15, 2013, 11:47:00 PM
I think it would be less aggravating if they just shut it down until the new software is ready to "go live".

Now their entire site is down too. Oops.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 16, 2013, 08:24:47 AM
Now their [Mackie's] entire site is down too. Oops.
http://www.behringer.com works fine for me, are you trying their old site? ;)
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums Still Down
Post by: Russ Davis on January 16, 2013, 11:53:02 AM
Now their entire site is down too. Oops.

Mackie site's back up, but the Forums are still "offline for maintenance".
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Greg_Cameron on January 16, 2013, 11:59:55 AM
http://www.behringer.com works fine for me, are you trying their old site? ;)

It is ironic that the two companies seems to have flipped in the market as far as their customer relations and quality of gear. Sad really. Maybe not a 100% conversion, but getting there.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Greg_Cameron on January 16, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Update from Mackie's site:

Quote
Like you, we see incredible value in giving our customers a place to interact, ask questions and talk about all things Mackie. But the time has come for an upgrade to our forum software. While we implement a better solution, the Mackie forums will be offline. This could likely take several weeks to fully complete. In the meantime, here are some helpful links should you need support or have any questions about Mackie products.

For support concerns with current product visit http://www.mackie.com/support
Want to talk about our flagship DL Series mixers or DLM Series loudspeakers with other users? We set up a discussion tab on our Facebook page dedicated to everything DL/DLM. For direct DL1608 related presales questions and feedback, email us at [email protected].

Considering buying any other Mackie product and have questions? Email [email protected]

Looking for resources for discontinued products like the D8B, DXB, HDR/MDR, etc? Everything you need to know is accessible. We sincerely appreciate your patience through this transition and look forward to providing you with a better and more comprehensive support solution soon."

I've never seen anyone down their old board site for weeks transitioning to a new site. Isn't it standard procedure to keep the old one up until the new one is ready to go live? Bizarre.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 16, 2013, 11:06:19 PM
I've never seen anyone down their old board site for weeks transitioning to a new site. Isn't it standard procedure to keep the old one up until the new one is ready to go live? Bizarre.
It takes about 10 minutes to set up a forum, maybe a day to fine tune it. Their forums were working fine before they were taken down :( .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Kev Jones on January 17, 2013, 05:14:22 AM
Genuinely, I was about to invest in my first Mackie purchases (I was just waiting until NAMM was over - just to see if there were any updates etc)... so I was surprised to see this.  Personally, it has knocked my confidence.  To me, it leaves me wondering about attitude to customers... and also project management abilities.  Surprised to see a forum down for such a period.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 17, 2013, 09:51:30 AM
Update from Mackie's site:

I've never seen anyone down their old board site for weeks transitioning to a new site. Isn't it standard procedure to keep the old one up until the new one is ready to go live? Bizarre.

The rest of the site is up and running, their support page is still there.  While I agree that this is inconvenient, I think it shows how reliant we've become on OTHER END USERS to supply the help and assistance that manufacturers and retailers once were expected to provide.  Customer service has effectively been outsourced to other customers.

The other thing I'll point out is that the forum is down until after NAMM.  Related?
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 17, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
Genuinely, I was about to invest in my first Mackie purchases (I was just waiting until NAMM was over - just to see if there were any updates etc)... so I was surprised to see this.  Personally, it has knocked my confidence.  To me, it leaves me wondering about attitude to customers... and also project management abilities. Surprised to see a forum down for such a period.
Hopefully they are going to announce the next firmware for the DL1608 at NAMM. In the mean time they left up their bug report and suggestions system for the DL1608 with 243 items on it (many are duplicates or suggestions for future hardware):
http://mackie.uservoice.com/forums/97035-dl1608
My chief gripes are:
Monitor sends are post comp
No stereo linking of channels or auxes
No master FX mute
No output delays
No iPhone app for monitor mixing

Also other folks complain about:
Trying to use the aux outs unbalanced results in noise that is unacceptable.
Recording level is too low.
Monitor sends are post EQ
No chorus and/or second reverb
Can't "split" iPad playback for backing/click tracks
Can't playback recordings and no dropbox support
Can't save shows to PC

And of course it still doesn't support docking the latest model of iPad.

Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 10:32:46 AM
and of course it still doesn't support docking the latest model of iPad.
I would expect some sort of adapter tray for the new ipad lightning dock..
 
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 10:36:58 AM
A gripe I have is that any chan icons and pictures assigned are lost as soon as you save or load any snapshots. also would be nice to see a PEQ option for the monitor sends.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 10:38:57 AM
oh, and the factory presets are useless as expected.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Jonathan Betts on January 17, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
If they only fix one thing it has to be the monitor send issue. I could care less about any other lacking feature at this time.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 11:16:02 AM
If they only fix one thing it has to be the monitor send issue. I could care less about any other lacking feature at this time.
Which send issue you refering to?
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 17, 2013, 11:39:02 AM
A gripe I have is that any chan icons and pictures assigned are lost as soon as you save or load any snapshots. also would be nice to see a PEQ option for the monitor sends.
Having the Icons saved would be useful to me - I have no desire to use pictures. And yes, I'd prefer PEQ's over GEQ's on the monitor sends but it hasn't been a problem for me like some of the other things mentioned.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
yea the icons are fine for me as well.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 01:39:02 PM
I think I would like to have a choice for pre/post on the fx sends as well as an ability to send the delay through the reverb or reverb through the delay as I sometimes like these options and they seem to be within the ability of the app to be updated.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 01:45:47 PM
I admit that one of the key strengths of the master fader app is the simplicity of the layout and I know with digital mixers the sky is the limit to some degree, however I don't believe mackie want's to take the simple feel out of the app.
 
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Greg_Cameron on January 17, 2013, 02:25:18 PM
Subgroups with group processing (compression, maybe a parametric EQ).
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 17, 2013, 05:47:23 PM
Subgroups with group processing (compression, maybe a parametric EQ).

The mackie forum is apparently now on PSW, in the Lounge.

Now we'll find out if anyone from Mackie reads here, like Uli & minions do the B* forums on SoundForums.net
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 17, 2013, 05:54:36 PM
Actually Mackie just put up a forum on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/Mackie/app_202980683107053
I also have a user's group for the DL1608 on YahooGroups:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dl1608
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Kev Jones on January 17, 2013, 06:11:29 PM
Facebook?  I'm really not impressed.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 08:27:36 PM
I just realized the aux "pre source" is still post eq with no option to send pre eq. That is a major issue for me running aux fed monitors as most people likely do with this mixer.
 Come on mackie! I just got the thing and only mixed live once so far without realizing mackie would have done such a stupid thing.
 Now I realize why eq changes wanted to cause feedback a few times which I thought was from the mains since it was a small venue and my mains are pretty powerfull but now I am sure the monitors were the source...
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Jonathan Betts on January 17, 2013, 08:36:27 PM
This is what I was referring to in my previous post. Aux tap points need to have options.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 17, 2013, 08:39:30 PM
I just realized the aux "pre source" is still post eq with no option to send pre eq. That is a major issue for me running aux fed monitors as most people likely do with this mixer.
 Come on mackie! I just got the thing and only mixed live once so far without realizing mackie would have done such a stupid thing.
 Now I realize why eq changes wanted to cause feedback a few times which I thought was from the mains since it was a small venue and my mains are pretty powerfull but now I am sure the monitors were the source...
Welcome to our nightmare :D .

But seriously, many analog boards used to run post-EQ auxes so if you've dealt with it back then it's not a big issue. The problem comes when you're running your monitors stoopid loud with singers who have no power like seems to be the norm these days - at least hereabouts :( .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Jonathan Betts on January 17, 2013, 08:46:17 PM
Fortunately for Mackie the majority of users will use this mixer completely unaware of this issue. I found it by reading the block diagram.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 10:25:56 PM
But seriously, many analog boards used to run post-EQ auxes
For years I personally try and keep A&H as a sort of standard minimum (whenever a budget console fits the bill) and I have not come across any of their products that did not include at least an internal "jumper" mod for setting custom "pre source".
 Any situation where I mix stage and house from single console I have been fortunate to have pre eq aux sends, at least for the past 10yrs or so. The bottom line is that It seems to be one of those things I would expect in a digital product  and I think it's almost a deal breaker and I am considering returning the DL1608 while I still have the option.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 17, 2013, 10:45:34 PM
The bottom line is that It seems to be one of those things I would expect in a digital product  and I think it's almost a deal breaker and I am considering returning the DL1608 while I still have the option.
It does make me seriously doubt that they consulted ANY live sound guys when they designed this board :o .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 17, 2013, 10:54:18 PM
It does make me seriously doubt that they consulted ANY live sound guys when they designed this board :o .
Seems almost typical Mackie
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 17, 2013, 11:05:48 PM
Seems almost typical Mackie
I'm sure the PreSonus StudioLive wasn't developed with live sound guy input either - it took a couple updates before it didn't suck too. I wish PreSonus would make a rackmount surfaceless SL that was controllable via an iPad without needing a Mac in between. That would blow away the DL1608 for sure!

OTOH the rumor is that Mackie is releasing a new firmware at NAMM so if they at least fix the aux tap points most of us will find it usable. Personally I want the tap points to be selectable per-channel - for instance I usually need compression on the keys and EQ on the kick in the monitors. Oh, and I need the send for the 'verb on horns to be pre-fader if the horns are plenty loud to carry the room but I want 'verb on them in the monitors and maybe some 'verb in the mains to sweeten them.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Patrick Tracy on January 17, 2013, 11:06:45 PM
It does make me seriously doubt that they consulted ANY live sound guys when they designed this board :o .

Or maybe the ones who like post eq monitor sends just aren't spending their time reading this thread (except for me, apparently).
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Patrick Tracy on January 17, 2013, 11:22:03 PM
OTOH the rumor is that Mackie is releasing a new firmware at NAMM so if they at least fix the aux tap points most of us will find it usable. Personally I want the tap points to be selectable per-channel...

Why not have the whole signal path user configurable down to the module? I like inserts post eq, but most live mixers want the opposite.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 17, 2013, 11:23:26 PM
Or maybe the ones who like post eq monitor sends just aren't spending their time reading this thread (except for me, apparently).
I personally don't mind either - but I would have advised them to do things the way the MixWiz3 does if they want to go after that market. It defaults to pre-EQ and has a master FX mute.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 19, 2013, 07:19:49 AM
Or maybe the ones who like post eq monitor sends just aren't spending their time reading this thread (except for me, apparently).
I'm not a Mackie mixer user, but I'm in the camp of post-EQ aux sends as well.  If my FOH and monitor systems are both fairly neutral sounding and well-behaved (which was the goal, last I checked), I've found that most of the tonal changes I want to make for FOH also improve the monitor sound.

There's still a place for Y-ing an input now and then so you can do different intentional EQing, but I can't think of a time in recent memory where no EQ to the monitors was better than what I was doing at FOH.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 19, 2013, 08:29:38 AM
I personally don't mind either - but I would have advised them to do things the way the MixWiz3 does if they want to go after that market. It defaults to pre-EQ and has a master FX mute.
I think the mw3 is post eq factory default with internal jumpers you can customize for pre eq and some other options as well.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 19, 2013, 08:36:14 AM
If my FOH and monitor systems are both fairly neutral sounding and well-behaved (which was the goal, last I checked), I've found that most of the tonal changes I want to make for FOH also improve the monitor sound.
The monitor mix is always different then the house mix so even if all else was same speaker wise (which rarely is the case) the different componants of the mix tend to interact in ways that lead me a desire to make changes to the channel eq's seperate for my house mix. 
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Patrick Tracy on January 19, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
The monitor mix is always different then the house mix so even if all else was same speaker wise (which rarely is the case) the different componants of the mix tend to interact in ways that lead me a desire to make changes to the channel eq's seperate for my house mix.

Of course separate eq is the ideal, but is having no channel eq at all in monitors objectively better than having the same eq as the main mix? I find having the same channel eq as FOH is the better compromise.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 19, 2013, 01:14:55 PM
Of course separate eq is the ideal, but is having no channel eq at all in monitors objectively better than having the same eq as the main mix? I find having the same channel eq as FOH is the better compromise.
Last I knew it was about a 50/50 split between those who prefer pre vs post EQ. The MW3 ships pre-EQ because that is less dangerous for the level users that make up the majority of those who purchase one. Most are used to mix from the stage or with a untrained friend pushing faders out front and tend to have their EQ overused :( .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 19, 2013, 01:20:34 PM
Last I knew it was about a 50/50 split between those who prefer pre vs post EQ. The MW3 ships pre-EQ because that is less dangerous for the level users that make up the majority of those who purchase one. Most are used to mix from the stage or with a untrained friend pushing faders out front and tend to have their EQ overused :( .

As one moves up in quality/functionality (at least in the old days) one of the features encountered would be selectability of pick-off points in the signal chain(s).  Lower end stuff, not so much.  Now that things are moving into software control rather than hardware, why not just write the stuff so that you have the options that used to require a whole lot more in the manufacturing?

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.......
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 19, 2013, 01:27:23 PM
As one moves up in quality/functionality (at least in the old days) one of the features encountered would be selectability of pick-off points in the signal chain(s).  Lower end stuff, not so much.  Now that things are moving into software control rather than hardware, why not just write the stuff so that you have the options that used to require a whole lot more in the manufacturing?

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.......

+1 and then some...
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 19, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
Last I knew it was about a 50/50 split between those who prefer pre vs post EQ. The MW3 ships pre-EQ because that is less dangerous for the level users that make up the majority of those who purchase one. Most are used to mix from the stage or with a untrained friend pushing faders out front and tend to have their EQ overused :( .

The survey of our audio technicians at Century II Performing Arts and Convention Center says:  PRE EQ, PRE FADER aux sends for monitors.  There are 2 mixers in the basement storage room that nobody uses because the auxes are all post-EQ, although they are pre-fader.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Patrick Tracy on January 19, 2013, 01:33:42 PM
The survey of our audio technicians at Century II Performing Arts and Convention Center says:  PRE EQ, PRE FADER aux sends for monitors.  There are 2 mixers in the basement storage room that nobody uses because the auxes are all post-EQ, although they are pre-fader.

I'll take 'em off your hands.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 19, 2013, 01:34:13 PM
+1 and then some...

Thanks, Tim.  I must admit I'm getting very tired of folks cavilling about pre/post aux stuff.  The point is not to "get along" with what manufacturers in their technical arrogance deign to include in their product, but to insist that their gear come out as fully functional as possible OUT OF THE CHUTE.

No more waiting for (and perhaps paying for) upgrades which might as well be there in version 1.0.

And in this instance (Mackie iPad mixer) where it's pretty much all in the app, write the book, not just a few chapters....... 
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 19, 2013, 01:35:49 PM
The survey of our audio technicians at Century II Performing Arts and Convention Center says:  PRE EQ, PRE FADER aux sends for monitors.  There are 2 mixers in the basement storage room that nobody uses because the auxes are all post-EQ, although they are pre-fader.

Real men use..........
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 19, 2013, 01:38:23 PM
I'll take 'em off your hands.

At the rate they are holding up, in spite of their low use, you can dumpster-dive for them sometime in 2013.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Uwe Riemer on January 19, 2013, 01:54:42 PM
I'm not a Mackie mixer user, but I'm in the camp of post-EQ aux sends as well.  If my FOH and monitor systems are both fairly neutral sounding and well-behaved (which was the goal, last I checked), I've found that most of the tonal changes I want to make for FOH also improve the monitor sound.

There's still a place for Y-ing an input now and then so you can do different intentional EQing, but I can't think of a time in recent memory where no EQ to the monitors was better than what I was doing at FOH.

Count me in on TJs side

Uwe
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 19, 2013, 01:57:42 PM
Real men use..........

20 year old Soundcraft Venue II.  It's down in the basement, too, but I'll deal with a couple of dead channels because the working channels have the "right" aux send parameters, 4 band eq, and more routing options.

The cheesy mixers I'm referring to were purchased when the 30 year old Yamaha mixers in the little theater and exhibition hall became unrepairable due to parts sourcing.  It's telling that our technicians still go to the old mixers (that do what we need done) than the 'new' mixers that were purchased without any thought beyond channel count and price.

@Patrick - we do a lot of different things in our PAC, with a lot of corpy meeting/presentation stuff and "community" events.  There are few, if any, rehearsals and the first time there is feedback (esp in monitors) the clients are on the phone with to their PAC event manager.  They'll mess with lighting and set all day, but audio is expected to the perfect right out of the box.  Post EQ aux sends are a virtual guarantee of pissed off clients.  Likewise,  we need the channel on/off/mute/whatever to turn off the channel audio.... ALL aux sends, group sends, etc.  Perhaps the button should be labeled "shut the hell up".  When a presenter on lav mic is off stage, we don't want her in the aux feeds to VDO record or confidence monitors, for example... this is aimed at the discussion elsewhere about channel mute behavior, and I believe the console design mindset is disconnected here, too...

Now, back to the topic thread...  THIS thread has become the de facto Mackie forum.  You may carry on... ;)
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 19, 2013, 02:23:38 PM
The product manager for the DL1608 has joined the YahooGroup. He's a nice guy and has always been as helpful as his bosses have allowed him to be :) . I really don't like being as negative here as it may appear just because I don't want him taking it personally. I've been there and done that with some of the products I've developed. But it would appear it takes a lot of bitching to get the suits at Mackie to listen to what we all consider common sense :( . PreSonus and Behringer (and others) are no different IME.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 19, 2013, 02:37:16 PM
But it would appear it takes a lot of bitching to get the suits at Mackie to listen to what we all consider common sense :( . PreSonus and Behringer (and others) are no different IME.

JR probably still has the tire tracks on his back from his days in Meridian, defending design decisions he knew were right for users but unfathomed by marketing, purchasing, or the guy who signed his cheque.

My most loved/hated of JR's creations was the Mark VIII.  It was clean, quiet, the EQ was responsive without feeling "hyped" and came with lots of routing (internal and physical i/o) capability.  The rest?  It really didn't like being moved.  In a truck.  The PSU voltage dividers and coms/TB were on the same card, which led to some interesting failures of both, though usually not at the same time.  And it said "Peavey" on it.  Those who mixed with their eyes were disappointed; the rest were usually pleased with it and it got a couple of "better than a Soundcraft" comments.  Something like 15 years ago we sold ours to a guy who built a recording studio around it.  I think he's still using it.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Patrick Tracy on January 19, 2013, 09:36:45 PM
@Patrick - we do a lot of different things in our PAC, with a lot of corpy meeting/presentation stuff and "community" events.  There are few, if any, rehearsals and the first time there is feedback (esp in monitors) the clients are on the phone with to their PAC event manager.  They'll mess with lighting and set all day, but audio is expected to the perfect right out of the box.  Post EQ aux sends are a virtual guarantee of pissed off clients.

Whole different application. Rock bands in clubs have different expectations. I generally have minimal to no feedback and compliments on monitor mixes.

Likewise,  we need the channel on/off/mute/whatever to turn off the channel audio.... ALL aux sends, group sends, etc.  Perhaps the button should be labeled "shut the hell up".  When a presenter on lav mic is off stage, we don't want her in the aux feeds to VDO record or confidence monitors, for example... this is aimed at the discussion elsewhere about channel mute behavior, and I believe the console design mindset is disconnected here, too...

That's the other thing my VLZ Pro mod (not in the book) did, make the monitors follow the mute button. Mute should mute everything except the pre fader direct out. Is that not true on the DL1608? That would be a deal breaker for me.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Bob Leonard on January 19, 2013, 10:43:50 PM
I'm reading this and see where the 1608 can be called a mixer due to functionality, but I just don't see how it can be positioned to the live sound market simply because an Ipad runs it, or is it as the case may be.

There are many devices out there which provide an interface to sound devices using an Ipad. Do they all have to be called a mixer?

Perhaps novelty devices of this type are better positioned to home recording use.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Bob Leonard on January 19, 2013, 10:50:17 PM
JR probably still has the tire tracks on his back from his days in Meridian, defending design decisions he knew were right for users but unfathomed by marketing, purchasing, or the guy who signed his cheque.

My most loved/hated of JR's creations was the Mark VIII.  It was clean, quiet, the EQ was responsive without feeling "hyped" and came with lots of routing (internal and physical i/o) capability.  The rest?  It really didn't like being moved.  In a truck.  The PSU voltage dividers and coms/TB were on the same card, which led to some interesting failures of both, though usually not at the same time.  And it said "Peavey" on it.  Those who mixed with their eyes were disappointed; the rest were usually pleased with it and it got a couple of "better than a Soundcraft" comments.  Something like 15 years ago we sold ours to a guy who built a recording studio around it.  I think he's still using it.

The MARK VIII sounded as good as any board in it's day IMO. If I remember some went for 9-10K and can be had for 1K today.
 
 
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 19, 2013, 11:23:07 PM
Mute should mute everything except the pre fader direct out. Is that not true on the DL1608? That would be a deal breaker for me.
Yes, the mutes affect both the main and aux outs. I seem to remember this being a "defect" of the first couple PreSonus firmwares? At least Mackie got that right out of the gate :) .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 19, 2013, 11:30:13 PM
I'm reading this and see where the 1608 can be called a mixer due to functionality, but I just don't see how it can be positioned to the live sound market simply because an Ipad runs it, or is it as the case may be.
The DL1608 IS the mixer - the iPad is only a control surface. You can turn off the iPad and the mixer continues to function. I think it is pretty cool that you can have a mixer with two control surfaces for monitor world and FOH for under $2k :) . OTOH I have a PreSonus 1818VSL where the mixer actually is software running on the PC :( .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 19, 2013, 11:34:10 PM
I'm reading this and see where the 1608 can be called a mixer due to functionality, but I just don't see how it can be positioned to the live sound market simply because an Ipad runs it, or is it as the case may be.

There are many devices out there which provide an interface to sound devices using an Ipad. Do they all have to be called a mixer?

Perhaps novelty devices of this type are better positioned to home recording use.
Trust me Bob, I'm with you on the analog over digi preference for the most part but for the price tag of the DL, I figured I'd give it a whirl, considering it cost roughly same as my monitor eq's price (ea) since I already had the Ipad2 and Ipad mini. So far I mixed a few shows with the DL  and it sounds better then you expect and the thing is barely bigger then my stagebox on my snake I use with my mix wizard rack. It looks like the quality of a Zoom 4 track recorder you can buy for <$100 and compared to even the smallest mixwizard rack rig I own this still makes me feel like less of a man and likely makes my job look much easier then I would like it to appear.
 All that said, this thing sounds pretty damn good and with some basic tweeks and updates it really has potential. Typical mackie cheapness throughout, but all in all I can live with stupid global phantom and a cheasy power supply in chord crap even despite my belief that these things to be clear signs or a non-pro piece.
 I do still love faders, knobs, racks of gear and all the cabling insert snakes and multipair cables.... I still have a bit of a cable/wire fetish.
 The biggest advantage I see in the Digi world, it's a much safer word to abbreviate then analog, trust me!
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Brad Weber on January 20, 2013, 07:53:33 AM
The DL1608 IS the mixer - the iPad is only a control surface. You can turn off the iPad and the mixer continues to function. I think it is pretty cool that you can have a mixer with two control surfaces for monitor world and FOH for under $2k :) . OTOH I have a PreSonus 1818VSL where the mixer actually is software running on the PC :( .
At the same time, try buying a DL1608 and mixing with it without having an iPad and see how well that works.  You can't mix on a DL1608 without an iPad so it can be argued that in probably the vast majority of use it is an integral part of the 'mixer'.
 
Taking this to another level, you could create a mixer with computer control using matrix DSP devices, in fact at one time there was a company working on a mixer that was essentially a custom controller connected to multiple matrix DSP boxes (MediaMatrix, BSS, etc.).  So something like the DL1608 seems to have a lot in common with a pre-programmed, fixed format matrix DSP.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Bob Leonard on January 20, 2013, 09:52:33 AM
Trust me Bob, I'm with you on the analog over digi preference for the most part but for the price tag of the DL, I figured I'd give it a whirl, considering it cost roughly same as my monitor eq's price (ea) since I already had the Ipad2 and Ipad mini. So far I mixed a few shows with the DL  and it sounds better then you expect and the thing is barely bigger then my stagebox on my snake I use with my mix wizard rack. It looks like the quality of a Zoom 4 track recorder you can buy for <$100 and compared to even the smallest mixwizard rack rig I own this still makes me feel like less of a man and likely makes my job look much easier then I would like it to appear.
 All that said, this thing sounds pretty damn good and with some basic tweeks and updates it really has potential. Typical mackie cheapness throughout, but all in all I can live with stupid global phantom and a cheasy power supply in chord crap even despite my belief that these things to be clear signs or a non-pro piece.
 I do still love faders, knobs, racks of gear and all the cabling insert snakes and multipair cables.... I still have a bit of a cable/wire fetish.
 The biggest advantage I see in the Digi world, it's a much safer word to abbreviate then analog, trust me!

I'm not making an analog digital comparison here. What I'm saying is that the Ipad IS the mixer. I live in a digital world (for over 110 hrs this last week) and reliability is primary. What this product has going for it IS the Ipad because they are considered reliable.
 
The Ipad is the engine for the application, in this case Mackie's mixer application. The application controls the interface, the mixers shell or body if you will, much like a control surface to a DAW. The problem I see is Mackie's haste to address the digital market at a low price point. The rush to market resulted in a usefull but not ready for prime time product.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Ron Kimball on January 20, 2013, 10:00:19 AM
The rush to market resulted in a usefull but not ready for prime time product.
Just to be fair I'll re-iterate that the StudioLive wasn't "finished" when it was first shipped but has evolved into a pretty decent mixer. I think they even finally fixed the crappy 6db/octave HPFs the last firmware update? The Mackie has great EQ, the SL16 is still only semi-parametric :( .
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 20, 2013, 11:24:32 AM
JR probably still has the tire tracks on his back from his days in Meridian, defending design decisions he knew were right for users but unfathomed by marketing, purchasing, or the guy who signed his cheque.

My most loved/hated of JR's creations was the Mark VIII.  It was clean, quiet, the EQ was responsive without feeling "hyped" and came with lots of routing (internal and physical i/o) capability.  The rest?  It really didn't like being moved.  In a truck.  The PSU voltage dividers and coms/TB were on the same card, which led to some interesting failures of both, though usually not at the same time.  And it said "Peavey" on it.  Those who mixed with their eyes were disappointed; the rest were usually pleased with it and it got a couple of "better than a Soundcraft" comments.  Something like 15 years ago we sold ours to a guy who built a recording studio around it.  I think he's still using it.
While I appreciate any kind words I get, the lead engineer on the Mark VIII was Jack Aubuchon a very solid analog engineer (who ended up reporting to me later when I was put over all mixer engineering). Back then I was lead on the near twin console, the AMR Production Series recording console. The two consoles shared common tooling (like the forming tool for the channel strip sheet metal, and a common component set (special pots, faders, and switches tooled up just for those two products). There were similarities and differences between those two. One obvious example, I offered configurations more attuned to studio use with as large as a 36x24 load... The Mark VIII IIRC offered a something like 40x8 (?) max.  We even tooled up identical knobs for both consoles, but pushed different color plastic through the tooling for the two models. Another important difference, I voiced the EQ differently on the AMR because strip EQ in a recording board is not likely to be used for feedback mitigation, but purely sound shaping, so different Q and some what  different sweep range (lower LF sweep, etc).

One design fight that I lost in that product series was the fader sourcing. I wanted to use the cheapest at the time (that didn't suck) $10 Alps fader, but I was forced by the man whose name was on the buildings to use a $2 Jung Poon (Korean) fader. I had my "told you so" opportunity a few months into shipping, when the crappy Korean  faders started falling apart en masse in the field. Of course you don't really get to say I told you so to the Man, he's always the man.  8)  Luckily, and perhaps because they lost the original design win, Alps magically showed up to save the day with their new K-Fader, costing more than $2 but way less than $10 (K- was an obvious reference to the Jung Poon POS).   

But yes, I agree with your assessment. The Mark VIII was a serious console that did almost everything well. I don't recall any complaint other than about the brand name (and perhaps size-weight). It was interesting to watch Mackie stumble with their more serious SR console attempt, but it was all academic, the big money was at the lower price point, and riders ruled the big board bailiwick.

Mackies high volume 8-bus was a relatively cheap $4k back then. Interesting compared to the modern X-32 pricing (not to mention we have cheaper dollars now). The X-32 is in the old Mackie 8-bus sweet spot for price. 

JR

PS: In my crystal ball consoles go away entirely, so IPAD-ISHMAD. In the future we will be using some game controller technology.
Title: Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
Post by: Marc Platt on January 20, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
Is it possible (legal wise) for develpopers to engineer 3rd party apps to control the DL hardware? I imagine it is.
 Would be cool to see if any "better suited" options arise for use with the DL.
  Obviously better suited options differ based on preference and application.