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Title: THIS is why.....
Post by: Craig Leerman on July 10, 2014, 04:43:17 PM
I never let a valet park my Lamborghini  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sFkUi2iAc
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 10, 2014, 08:45:36 PM
I never let a valet park my Lamborghini  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sFkUi2iAc
I have lost to many of them that way.

That is why I drive a simpler car now :)
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jeff Bankston on July 10, 2014, 11:31:15 PM
i drive an f350 dually with posi traction so they can drive over the lamborghini
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: frank kayser on July 11, 2014, 02:25:25 PM
i drive an f350 dually with posi traction so they can drive over the lamborghini



You might, but after the f350 meets that post, the front end will be all but indistinguishable from that of the Lambo.  It will be a bit less costly to get the F350 back into shape, however.


I had a friend with an "indestructible" 4wd vehicle (his terms).  Could take anything.
When I saw him commuting in on the train three days later, I asked why.  Seems his "indestructible" truck hit one of those parking lot "sleeper" parking curbs hidden under the snow and took out the front end rather comprehensively.


frank
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tommy Peel on July 11, 2014, 04:24:39 PM
I never let a valet park my Lamborghini  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sFkUi2iAc

Did his foot slip off the clutch and land hard on the gas....  ::)

 ;D

P.S. It's a bad idea to wear flip-flops in the rain and drive a vehicle with a standard tranny... I've never had anything bad happen, but I came close once when my foot slipped off the clutch while I was backing out of a parking spot...
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jeff Bankston on July 11, 2014, 05:24:46 PM



You might, but after the f350 meets that post, the front end will be all but indistinguishable from that of the Lambo.  It will be a bit less costly to get the F350 back into shape, however.


I had a friend with an "indestructible" 4wd vehicle (his terms).  Could take anything.
When I saw him commuting in on the train three days later, I asked why.  Seems his "indestructible" truck hit one of those parking lot "sleeper" parking curbs hidden under the snow and took out the front end rather comprehensively.


frank
i was making a funny  ;D. however a few year ago a chevrolet malibu turned in front of me. i was going 45. minor damage to my f350. my truck hit the right front wheel and relocated the engine about 1 foot further to the left and pushed the mailbu across 2 lanes. i drove away and went to the store. a tow truck took the malibu away. if i still have the fotos i took i will post them.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jeff Bankston on July 11, 2014, 05:27:04 PM
Did his foot slip off the clutch and land hard on the gas....  ::)

 ;D

P.S. It's a bad idea to wear flip-flops in the rain and drive a vehicle with a standard tranny... I've never had anything bad happen, but I came close once when my foot slipped off the clutch while I was backing out of a parking spot...
all my stuff has ben stick shift since 1973. i missippi where i grode up i learned right away to pay attention to the wet shoe on the clutch pedal in the rain specially since my vehicle usually dont have a rubber peadal pad. no they dont last long.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Bill McIntosh on July 11, 2014, 06:34:57 PM
i drive an f350 dually with posi traction so they can drive over the lamborghini

Some of the F350 trucks around here could drive over the Lambo -- and not touch it   :o.  Jeeze, you could change the tranny and never need a jack (well, maybe some Jack after you're done).   8)
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Ivan Beaver on July 11, 2014, 06:51:00 PM
Did his foot slip off the clutch and land hard on the gas....  ::)

 ;D

P.S. It's a bad idea to wear flip-flops in the rain and drive a vehicle with a standard tranny... I've never had anything bad happen, but I came close once when my foot slipped off the clutch while I was backing out of a parking spot...
Strange.

Every vehicle I have ever driven that has a clutch (trucks and cars) has the brake pedal between the clutch and the gas.  I don't how how you could drive by using the same foot for both the clutch and gas.

But maybe the lambos are different???????????
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tom Bourke on July 11, 2014, 11:16:02 PM
i was making a funny  ;D. however a few year ago a chevrolet malibu turned in front of me. i was going 45. minor damage to my f350. my truck hit the right front wheel and relocated the engine about 1 foot further to the left and pushed the mailbu across 2 lanes. i drove away and went to the store. a tow truck took the malibu away. if i still have the fotos i took i will post them.
My wife "ran over" a car with my cargo van and did not know it.  She did not have a car and was using my van to get to work. I noticed some extra color on my white van as I walked her out to it after lunch.  She got back to work to see a red sporty looking car with a messed up front fender, a woman crying, and a cop writing out a hit and run ticket.  She drove up in the van and explained she must have cut it to short and did not know she had hit the car.  The cop took a look at my van, stretch cargo 3/4 ton, and my wife, 4'11".  He closed his book and said exchange insurance, no hit and run ticket.  Turns out the woman had had her car less than 2 weeks!
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tommy Peel on July 12, 2014, 03:10:54 PM
Strange.

Every vehicle I have ever driven that has a clutch (trucks and cars) has the brake pedal between the clutch and the gas.  I don't how how you could drive by using the same foot for both the clutch and gas.

But maybe the lambos are different???????????

Maybe their different... Or maybe it was a case of mistaking the gas pedal for the brake. There was a person that drove a car completely into a local department store a few weeks ago(I tried and failed to find the pic) by doing that.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 12, 2014, 06:45:02 PM
Strange.

Every vehicle I have ever driven that has a clutch (trucks and cars) has the brake pedal between the clutch and the gas.  I don't how how you could drive by using the same foot for both the clutch and gas.

But maybe the lambos are different???????????

Some go fast sporty cars have gas and brake pedals very close together so drivers can actually hit both at the same time for tight turns (called "heel and toe" or something like that).. No they don't use clutch and gas at the same time.

My lawnmower has brakes and clutch on the same one pedal.  ;D

IIRC there was an issue with the audi back a while ago where some owners had a pattern of confusing the gas for the brakes and trashed a bunch of cars braking as hard as they could by mashing the go pedal.  ::)

JR
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on July 12, 2014, 07:11:54 PM
Flipflops should ONLY be worn when showering in public places.

-Wiggy
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Nikhil Mulay on July 13, 2014, 09:44:56 AM
Never let a valet drive your lambo.. Especially in Delhi!
 The owner is asking the hotel for damages which they have refused saying parking is at the owner's risk.
 
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Patrick Tracy on July 13, 2014, 01:05:21 PM
Some go fast sporty cars have gas and brake pedals very close together so drivers can actually hit both at the same time for tight turns (called "heel and toe" or something like that).. No they don't use clutch and gas at the same time.

My lawnmower has brakes and clutch on the same one pedal.  ;D

IIRC there was an issue with the audi back a while ago where some owners had a pattern of confusing the gas for the brakes and trashed a bunch of cars braking as hard as they could by mashing the go pedal.  ::)

JR

Actually, "matching revs" does use clutch and gas at the same time, often while braking. When entering a corner a driver might want to be braking while simultaneously downshifting at a higher speed than the syncros will allow. To do that you have to shift into neutral, release the clutch pedal and blip the throttle then push the clutch and downshift. If the driver wants to brake at the same time he will need to "heel and toe" the brake and gas.

During my time at Road & Track Magazine I often drove an Audi 4000 wagon that had been in an unintended acceleration incident, though without damage. I did notice that the pedals were both slightly to the left of where you'd expect them in an American car of the era. It was quite easy to hit the right edge of the brake and slip off onto the gas pedal if you were used to American cars.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 13, 2014, 01:52:28 PM

Actually, "matching revs" does use clutch and gas at the same time, often while braking. When entering a corner a driver might want to be braking while simultaneously downshifting at a higher speed than the syncros will allow. To do that you have to shift into neutral, release the clutch pedal and blip the throttle then push the clutch and downshift. If the driver wants to brake at the same time he will need to "heel and toe" the brake and gas.
I am not an expert on this but IIRC heel and toe driving was not about shifting but a smoother (quicker) return to power after (while still) braking in a curve.

[edit- I guess if you still have a foot left over you could slip the clutch for simultaneous downshifting, while this seems like an overly complex operation to try to match revs with.  /edit]
 
I recall having to double-clutch to rev-match gears when down-shifting to first gear in non-syncro gear boxes. Old school three speeds had syncro rings between 2nd and 3rd gear but not down to 1st gear.  Double clutching was a useful trick to match the transmission input gear (Pilot gear?) and clutch disc up to the non-syncro 1st gear's RPM for minimal loss of gear teeth metal while shifting down. Useful for street racing from a rolling start when driving that old iron, not that I would ever admit on the WWW to doing something illegal like street racing.  8) I suspect double-clutching is a lost art these days when most drivers can't even single clutch. While there is little need for it with modern all syncro transmissions.

Some of the modern uber-cars electronically rev-match for shifts probably to reduce stress in the gear box, or to deliver a smoother ride to the meat puppets.
Quote
During my time at Road & Track Magazine I often drove an Audi 4000 wagon that had been in an unintended acceleration incident, though without damage. I did notice that the pedals were both slightly to the left of where you'd expect them in an American car of the era. It was quite easy to hit the right edge of the brake and slip off onto the gas pedal if you were used to American cars.
Yup, that car brand made a lot of lawyers extra income and there was enough "there" there that the brand was weak for years in the US. Pilot error but influenced by the poor ergonomic design.

JR
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tim McCulloch on July 13, 2014, 02:17:52 PM
I suspect double-clutching is a lost art these days when most drivers can't even single clutch. While there is little need for it with modern all syncro transmissions.

Recent car theft/car jacking was unsuccessful because the car had a manual transmission.  Thieves got less than a block before abandoning it.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Mac Kerr on July 13, 2014, 02:33:26 PM
I suspect double-clutching is a lost art these days when most drivers can't even single clutch. While there is little need for it with modern all syncro transmissions.

Some of the modern uber-cars electronically rev-match for shifts probably to reduce stress in the gear box, or to deliver a smoother ride to the meat puppets.Yup, that car brand made a lot of lawyers extra income and there was enough "there" there that the brand was weak for years in the US. Pilot error but influenced by the poor ergonomic design.

I'm teaching my 26YO daughter, who has been driving for 10 years, how to drive a manual transmission so she can drive my old Audi A4 after my new Audi A3 arrives.

The new car will have one of those electronically shifted dual clutch transmissions.

Mac
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tommy Peel on July 13, 2014, 03:19:25 PM
I'm teaching my 26YO daughter, who has been driving for 10 years, how to drive a manual transmission so she can drive my old Audi A4 after my new Audi A3 arrives.

The new car will have one of those electronically shifted dual clutch transmissions.

Mac
I really enjoy driving my manual transmission Focus; it's much more fun than an automatic car. I bet an A4 with a manual can be a blast to drive.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Mac Kerr on July 13, 2014, 03:23:35 PM
I really enjoy driving my manual transmission Focus; it's much more fun than an automatic car. I bet an A4 with a manual can be a blast to drive.

It is, and I've had 2 of them over the past 15 years, but I really wanted the new A3, and it only comes with the DSG transmission. The stick is also not so much fun in stop and go traffic on the westside highway.

Mac
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tommy Peel on July 13, 2014, 03:33:27 PM
It is, and I've had 2 of them over the past 15 years, but I really wanted the new A3, and it only comes with the DSG transmission. The stick is also not so much fun in stop and go traffic on the westside highway.

Mac

Yeah the fun of a stick shift evaporates quickly in stop and go; if I lived somewhere where that was a norm I probably wouldn't have one. Most of my driving is on Farm-to-Market roads and state highways with the occasional interstate so there isn't much stop and go.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Samuel Rees on July 13, 2014, 03:33:40 PM
New A3s sure look fun, Mac.!My dad had an A6 which was always a great drive.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 13, 2014, 07:01:03 PM
It is, and I've had 2 of them over the past 15 years, but I really wanted the new A3, and it only comes with the DSG transmission. The stick is also not so much fun in stop and go traffic on the westside highway.

Mac

Yup, it seems we need to integrate cruise control with the stop/start to save fuel, and radar to automatically manage spacing,,, But I bet if we let HAL drive (or google) and all the HALs could talk to each other we wouldn't have stop and go traffic. That is caused by humans speeding up too quickly from stopped. I have manged to avoid heavy traffic (not by accident). When I lived in Atlanta I worked from home so didn't deal with the rush hours. My current house in MS is exactly 7 miles from my first Peavey office, without even a stop sign in that trip. 

Driving a stick in rush hour is even more fun if you have a high force pressure plate, that makes for a heavy clutch pedal that is even less fun to finesse for stop and go. Back in the '60s while living in Jersey I had a co-op job, also in Jersey, but going towards NYC so I got to experience the silly everyman traffic. Leaving my house +/- 5 minutes in the morning would get me to work +/- 15 minutes early/late. One time one of the office drones circled the two times a week I was late with a red pen on my time card. So I circled the other three days I was early with a blue pen ( I was working in QC so I had colored pens too). She got her panties in a wad and complained to my boss who said stop using the red pen.  8)

JR

PS: While i don't advice doing this you can shift between gears without using a clutch by syncing up engine speed. It's easy to get out of gear by matching engine speed so you are not speeding up or slowing down with no tension on the transmission it is easy to pop it into neutral. Getting into the next gear is harder.  You kind of need to estimate the proper engine speed for the next gear then jam it in... It works, but it is not recommended if you have a working clutch. OTOH if you have just blown your clutch into a million pieces so it will never disengage, and you have miles to go to get home, you do what you gotta do. Getting into first gear from a dead stop is a bitch... If you have a strong enough starter you can start it up in first gear. Or have some friends get you rolling (park on a hill)... Once you are rolling you don't want to stop so avoid stop lights.  ;D
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Mac Kerr on July 13, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
PS: While i don't advice doing this you can shift between gears without using a clutch by syncing up engine speed. It's easy to get out of gear by matching engine speed so you are not speeding up or slowing down with no tension on the transmission it is easy to pop it into neutral. Getting into the next gear is harder.  You kind of need to estimate the proper engine speed for the next gear then jam it in... It works, but it is not recommended if you have a working clutch. OTOH if you have just blown your clutch into a million pieces so it will never disengage, and you have miles to go to get home, you do what you gotta do. Getting into first gear from a dead stop is a bitch... If you have a strong enough starter you can start it up in first gear. Or have some friends get you rolling (park on a hill)... Once you are rolling you don't want to stop so avoid stop lights.  ;D

I had to drive home with a broken clutch cable in my 1960 VW bug. I used the starter motor to get going at every stoplight. I'm not teaching my daughter how to shift without the clutch.

I don't pay extra for the adaptive cruise control that manages traffic spacing, I like to manage that myself.

Mac

Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Bob Leonard on July 13, 2014, 07:25:58 PM
I'll take a pound please.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 13, 2014, 07:26:22 PM
I had to drive home with a broken clutch cable in my 1960 VW bug. I used the starter motor to get going at every stoplight. I'm not teaching my daughter how to shift without the clutch.
agreed... I feel a little bad about mentioning it, in case somebody wants to try it for fun.
Quote

I don't pay extra for the adaptive cruise control that manages traffic spacing, I like to manage that myself.

Mac

For utility driving in densely populated areas (like where you are). I wouldn't mind reading the morning paper and letting the car drive me into the city in the morning. It might also be useful for getting home from the bar after a few. I think I drive better after a few but legal officials disagree. Reaction times are slowed, but the same thing happened when I got old. Lucky for me I did a lot of training with my reaction times impaired by spirits, so I am ready.  8)

JR
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on July 14, 2014, 01:13:29 AM
I really enjoy driving my manual transmission Focus; it's much more fun than an automatic car.

As I understand it, automatic transmissions in Europe are about as rare as manual (stick shift) transmissions are becoming in the United States. Or so I've been told.

I've heard that European car rental agencies charge a steep premium for automatic transmission, because they know they can get it from the clueless Americans who wouldn't be able to get out of the parking lot with only a manual.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tommy Peel on July 14, 2014, 01:38:05 AM
As I understand it, automatic transmissions in Europe are about as rare as manual (stick shift) transmissions are becoming in the United States. Or so I've been told.

I've heard that European car rental agencies charge a steep premium for automatic transmission, because they know they can get it from the clueless Americans who wouldn't be able to get out of the parking lot with only a manual.
Yeah, I've heard that too. It's a shame their becoming so uncommon here. You can get them in some cars here but they're usually limited to bottom end base models and unavailable on models most people would want to buy. You can also get them in many sport models to though.

I drove a Dodge Dakota 4-cylinder 5-speed in high school and my first couple years of college; the Focus is way more fun than it was. :-) It's probably a good thing it didn't have it in high school.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on July 14, 2014, 07:15:25 AM
As I understand it, automatic transmissions in Europe are about as rare as manual (stick shift) transmissions are becoming in the United States. Or so I've been told.

I've heard that European car rental agencies charge a steep premium for automatic transmission, because they know they can get it from the clueless Americans who wouldn't be able to get out of the parking lot with only a manual.
I expect that will change, as modern 6-speed automatic transmissions are now generally more fuel efficient than manual transmissions - more gears, better shifting logic than the average human.

I like driving a manual too, but my commute to work and back includes an hour a day of 5 mph or less bumper to bumper traffic. That's not a lot of fun, and pretty hard on your clutch if you have one.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Bob Leonard on July 14, 2014, 07:46:53 AM
I expect that will change, as modern 6-speed automatic transmissions are now generally more fuel efficient than manual transmissions - more gears, better shifting logic than the average human.

I like driving a manual too, but my commute to work and back includes an hour a day of 5 mph or less bumper to bumper traffic. That's not a lot of fun, and pretty hard on your clutch if you have one.

100% correct Tom. No way could I work a clutch all day long with my job. I did it once with a truck I owned and promptly sold that truck within the year. In city delivery trucks all use automatic transmissions now, and even some of the fastest production cars are going automatic with and 8 speed transmissions for all the reasons you state. Many racing cars are almost there with paddle shifters located on the wheel, and some 300mph 1/4 mile cars use two speed automatics of one form or another. My own truck, a 2013 Explorer, has a 6 speed mated to a 300hp V6. It's not a race car, but shifting can also be done manually using a push button on the shifter. That and the 7000 rpm shift speeds makes for a pretty snappy of the line start.

My wish is that Ford, like Chrysler, would offer an automatic in their 600hp cars. That way I won't exclude my wife in the purchase decision and I'll have a better chance of owning the Mustang I want.

Another point now that I've mentioned the wife. I owned a 73' Malibu I bought after Vietnam. I took the car to Florida with me and after about 6-8 months the engine had been rebuilt and dyno'd at "Smokey's Best Damn Garage in Town" to just under 750hp. Back then that was huge hp, and this car was everything I thought of while in VN. I met my wife and after about a year she talked me into putting a B&M automatic transmission, line lock, etc. into the car so she could drive it, so back to "Smokey's Best Damn Garage in Town" it went. (I had plenty of war money to blow.) She could drive it alright, with both feet on the brake at a stop light. Just like a line array automatics fill a need in every type of vehicle.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunick)
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 14, 2014, 10:46:20 AM
I suspect the scarcity of automatic transmissions in Europe is (was) related to efficiency and gas mileage. It was common knowledge that automatic transmissions had losses from slippage. Back in the day automatic transmissions  had their own radiator, or coil in the main radiator to remove heat from the transmission. IIRC some (all) of the old automatic transmissions would lock in high gear but were lossy in the lower gears.

For drag racing gas mileage is not much of a concern and seamless shifting, without missed gears is a huge benefit. I recall laughing at the mopars with their pushbutton shifters, but they won enough races to stop the laughter.

I have actually avoided buying otherwise fine cars that I could not get in a standard transmission model. I don't mind driving an automatic rental, but it just seems like you have more control of your world with stick.

I expect the modern automatics to be more efficient by now, some are just sticks with solenoid clutches. I vaguely recall at least one car from back in the early 50's(?) when automatic transmission were still brand new, that required using the clutch to get started in low gear, then allowed shifting without the clutch for the higher gears.

I think I could live without a clutch driving my Tesla...now I just need somebody to give me a Tesla.  ;D

JR   
 
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: David Morison on July 15, 2014, 04:36:14 PM
It might also be useful for getting home from the bar after a few. I think I drive better after a few but legal officials disagree. Reaction times are slowed, but the same thing happened when I got old. Lucky for me I did a lot of training with my reaction times impaired by spirits, so I am ready.  8)

JR

Fun fact - modest amounts do actually speed up reaction times.
Reason being, different parts of the brain respond to it at different rates, and the more conscious/rational/analytical parts succumb earlier than the more instinctive/animal parts, so if you get the dose right you can react quicker as you just don't think about it as much.

Course, don't tell the cops I said so...  ;)

David.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tom Roche on July 15, 2014, 04:48:56 PM
PS: While i don't advice doing this you can shift between gears without using a clutch by syncing up engine speed. It's easy to get out of gear by matching engine speed so you are not speeding up or slowing down with no tension on the transmission it is easy to pop it into neutral. Getting into the next gear is harder.  You kind of need to estimate the proper engine speed for the next gear then jam it in... It works, but it is not recommended if you have a working clutch. OTOH if you have just blown your clutch into a million pieces so it will never disengage, and you have miles to go to get home, you do what you gotta do. Getting into first gear from a dead stop is a bitch... If you have a strong enough starter you can start it up in first gear. Or have some friends get you rolling (park on a hill)... Once you are rolling you don't want to stop so avoid stop lights.  ;D 

I hadn't heard about this until the clutch pedal in my Jeep broke while I was on Metal Masher trail in Moab, UT.  Fortunately, Jeeps also have high torque starters that allow you start the engine in 1st gear and go on your way.  When on an extremely steep incline you had better make sure the transfer case is in 4-low.  It's a little scarey to transition between letting off the brake and when the starter gets the motor running and your rig moving.

Anyway, I had about a two hour crawl off the rocks to get back to the highway and then a short 10-15 minute drive back to the town of Moab.  This is how I learned to speed-shift.  Once you get the hang of it (suppose each vehicle is different), it's easy to guessimate the RPM to make a clean shift.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 15, 2014, 05:37:26 PM
I don't know speed shifting but back in the day we used to do a thing we called "power-shifting". Basically you hold the skinny pedal pegged to the floor boards and just blip the clutch while shifting as fast as you can.

This can be rough on the engine if you miss a gear and it over-revs.  ::)

This generally worked better with 4 speed transmissions and 2nd to 3rd on 3 speeds since to shift gears you were only sliding the relatively low mass syncro collar a fraction of an inch. Shifting first to second gear on a 3 speed involved moving the much heavier, higher mass actual 1st/reverse gear a further distance. I could never shift 1st to 2nd fast enough to stay on full pedal. Going into 2nd was not hard but getting the heavy 1st gear to stop in the neutral middle position when shifting that fast was the problem.  :o 

I actually broke one Hurst floor shifter, and one transmission cover plate from trying to shift faster that the connected hardware would accommodate.  ;D I broke clutch linkages too but that was a different problem. The stock pressure plate had centrifugal assist, counter weights used to provide more pressure plate force at higher RPM, and was designed for nominal 4,700 RPM red line. I was shifting up closer to 7,000 rpm and had to replace my bent/broken clutch linkages more than once.

(http://www.johnhroberts.com/burnout1.jpg)

my old '54.... killing mosquitos.

JR

PS: I recall diving a jeep around in the army... when you get stuck in the mud, you just put it in low low range and get out to push.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tom Roche on July 15, 2014, 07:04:20 PM
I don't know speed shifting... 

It's probably the wrong term, but the one used by the guys on the trail when the clutch pedal broke in my Jeep.  They explained how I can shift w/o using the clutch when the RPM is right.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jeff Bankston on July 16, 2014, 12:28:46 AM
when i found a clutch pedal and linkage i converted my  66 wagon to a 4 speed schtick. behold !
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Scott Holtzman on July 16, 2014, 01:37:00 AM
when i found a clutch pedal and linkage i converted my  66 wagon to a 4 speed schtick. behold !

What's with the 70's vintage Motorola 2 way radio speaker?
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jeff Bankston on July 16, 2014, 04:38:32 AM
What's with the 70's vintage Motorola 2 way radio speaker?
its an extension speaker for the uniden cb radio mointed above it. that one had a new speaker in it. 550 dynoed hp headers , edelbrock rpm race mufflers and a pipe poking out in front of each rear tire can be a bit loud. check out the Wilson 5000 center load cb antenna on the right rear corner.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 16, 2014, 10:35:47 AM
It's probably the wrong term, but the one used by the guys on the trail when the clutch pedal broke in my Jeep.  They explained how I can shift w/o using the clutch when the RPM is right.

No worries, it's as good a name for it as any...

JR

PS: One of my earlier cars was 54 ford station wagon, and that one wouldn't light up the tires like my coupe would because of the extra weight over the rear end.  I did break a drive shaft with it once (actually broke the universal joint). 
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on July 16, 2014, 11:01:51 AM
I suspect the scarcity of automatic transmissions in Europe is (was) related to efficiency and gas mileage. It was common knowledge that automatic transmissions had losses from slippage. Back in the day automatic transmissions  had their own radiator, or coil in the main radiator to remove heat from the transmission. IIRC some (all) of the old automatic transmissions would lock in high gear but were lossy in the lower gears.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe this is the case with modern 6-speed autos.  Here is a snip from the specs page for the BMW 328 - one of the few vehicles I know of that can still be ordered with a manual transmission.  The auto version has [slightly] better mileage both city and highway. 

I suspect even 10 years ago with 5-speed autos the difference between auto and manual may have been either even or slightly favoring an auto, since the average manual driver either likes the fun of the shifting and isn't exactly eco-minded in their driving style, and/or are simply not as good at shifting as a highly optimized auto.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 16, 2014, 11:21:09 AM
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe this is the case with modern 6-speed autos.  Here is a snip from the specs page for the BMW 328 - one of the few vehicles I know of that can still be ordered with a manual transmission.  The auto version has [slightly] better mileage both city and highway. 

I suspect even 10 years ago with 5-speed autos the difference between auto and manual may have been either even or slightly favoring an auto, since the average manual driver either likes the fun of the shifting and isn't exactly eco-minded in their driving style, and/or are simply not as good at shifting as a highly optimized auto.

I do not disagree regarding modern technology. The automotive industry has been under intense government pressure to improve fleet mileage for decades. The old school lossy automatic transmission was probably easy to improve upon.

That's why I said economy " is (was)"  the reason instead of just is the reason. 

JR
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Tommy Peel on July 16, 2014, 12:32:29 PM
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe this is the case with modern 6-speed autos.  Here is a snip from the specs page for the BMW 328 - one of the few vehicles I know of that can still be ordered with a manual transmission.  The auto version has [slightly] better mileage both city and highway. 

I suspect even 10 years ago with 5-speed autos the difference between auto and manual may have been either even or slightly favoring an auto, since the average manual driver either likes the fun of the shifting and isn't exactly eco-minded in their driving style, and/or are simply not as good at shifting as a highly optimized auto.

Out of curiosity I compared the 2006 Ford Focus(my car) auto vs. manual with the 2015 Focus auto vs. manual.

(http://i.imgur.com/ql5XZYy.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/pNLzATL.png)

There's 1 mpg difference between the auto and manual in both cases but in the '06 the manual is better and in '15 the auto is better.

FWIW I get around 28-29mpg with my normal mix of city/highway and got 32mpg on a trip to Oklahoma last month running 75-80mph most of the way there(~200 mile trip). On the way back though it dropped to 28mpg because I was pushing a pretty bad head wind all the way back.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on July 16, 2014, 01:25:40 PM
Which, if you consider significant digits and rounding, means the actual difference could be between .1 and 1.9 MPG.  It appears that individual driving habits will have more impact than your choice of auto or manual.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 16, 2014, 01:49:50 PM
FWIW there was recently a news article about inaccuracy in published auto mileage claims. I believe these are sometimes estimated pre-production, or may not reflect actual production. IIRC Ford was not a bad offender, Lexus may have been a few MPG too optimistic.

I suspect there is a lot of gamesmanship or fudge in how those are calculated.

JR
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on July 16, 2014, 02:45:09 PM
FWIW there was recently a news article about inaccuracy in published auto mileage claims. I believe these are sometimes estimated pre-production, or may not reflect actual production. IIRC Ford was not a bad offender, Lexus may have been a few MPG too optimistic.

I suspect there is a lot of gamesmanship or fudge in how those are calculated.

If every manufacturer lied in the same manner (used the same flawed algorithm), the comparisons would still be valid.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on July 16, 2014, 03:30:12 PM
If every manufacturer lied in the same manner (used the same flawed algorithm), the comparisons would still be valid.

The article showed a list of how the car companies compared to each other and if they were all the same it wouldn't be worth writing about. That said I suspect there is variation between each companies different models, article probably averaged multiple models within each company.

In general the majors were within about 1 MPG... I wouldn't use these published numbers for very close comparisons, but probably more useful the more different the vehicles. 

JR

Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Steve Hurt on July 16, 2014, 10:01:45 PM
I really enjoy driving my manual transmission Focus; it's much more fun than an automatic car. I bet an A4 with a manual can be a blast to drive.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Agreed.  The wife has a Mini Cooper with a manual and it's a freaking blast to drive.
Her sisters Mini Cooper w/automatic is meh.
I had a BMW325i w/ a manual.  Loved it.  I tried automatic versions and was bored.
I would never buy a "fun" car with an automatic. 

Automatics are for getting comfortably from point A to point B
Manuals are for having fun getting from point A to point B
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Mac Kerr on July 16, 2014, 10:22:42 PM
Agreed.  The wife has a Mini Cooper with a manual and it's a freaking blast to drive.
Her sisters Mini Cooper w/automatic is meh.
I had a BMW325i w/ a manual.  Loved it.  I tried automatic versions and was bored.
I would never buy a "fun" car with an automatic. 

Automatics are for getting comfortably from point A to point B
Manuals are for having fun getting from point A to point B

We'll see. I'm passing on my 6 speed manual A4 for a 6 speed DSG A3 with paddle shifters. All the clutch work while stuck in stop and go traffic on the westside of NYC isn't what I call fun. My daughter is doing well learning how to drive a stick while I for delivery of the A3. It's still in Germany.

Mac
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Bob Leonard on July 16, 2014, 11:17:30 PM
I admire your taste Mac, that's a mighty fine vehicular device you have on order there, and please pictures when the big day arrives. Both my daughters are stick qualified, that was my requirement when they wanted to learn how to drive.

I'm sure you're familiar with a column shifter, so I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about here. I owned a 1972 Chevy stepside. Straight 6 and the column shifter. I eventually replaced the column shift lever with a through the floor Hurst shifter because any quick shifts to 3rd gear would end up with the shifter handle pointing straight down to the floor, and once in a while that meant opening the hood to re-engage the shift mechanism.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Steve Hurt on July 16, 2014, 11:40:38 PM
We'll see. I'm passing on my 6 speed manual A4 for a 6 speed DSG A3 with paddle shifters. All the clutch work while stuck in stop and go traffic on the westside of NYC isn't what I call fun. My daughter is doing well learning how to drive a stick while I for delivery of the A3. It's still in Germany.

Mac

I take the Mini Cooper out when I want to have fun.
I wouldn't call driving in NYC fun, so I'd go automatic there.  My van has an auto.

I wouldn't pick a clutch car for driving in stop and go traffic.  Where I live, it's a lot more go, and a lot less stop!
 
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: frank kayser on July 17, 2014, 10:59:46 AM
I did 30 years of daily stop'n'go commute traffic in DC with a stick mostly in one 5-series BMW or the other.  My 528 IT wagon has a stick - surprise to many, which is still my main hauler for my QSC powered system (sans subs...).  Thule box up top carries mic stands and some cables.


I just feel too disconnected from driving in an auto...


That DCT (dual clutch) tranny in the new (2 yrs now) Honda VFR is pretty cool - once you get your hear wrapped around not having a clutch lever...  When will it end up in a Gold Wing...


frank
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jeff Bankston on July 17, 2014, 04:23:15 PM
an ottomatic ! shameful ! this is 1 of my 5 ford 4 speeds. the shifter is a 1970's Hurst Supershifter2.
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Mac Kerr on July 17, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
I'm sure you're familiar with a column shifter, so I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about here.

In HS I drove a '56 Mercedes 220S with a 4 speed on the column. Real walnut dash (not just trim) and red leather seats.

This isn't my car, but it is the same interior.    https://www.flickr.com/photos/52124449@N07/6452886947/

Mac
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Jeff Bankston on July 17, 2014, 08:45:24 PM


I'm sure you're familiar with a column shifter, so I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about here. I owned a 1972 Chevy stepside.
the first car i ever drove was a 60 chevy impala with an auto when i was 12. the 2nd vehilce i drove was my dads 69 chebby 1/2 ton straight 6 with a 3 on the tree. we had ben out in the sticks hunting. 1 was about 14. my dad handed me the keys and told me i needed to learn to drive. he told me how to work the clutch and shift. i could speed shift a 3 on the tree. i love a fo on the flo ! my f350 is a 6 speed brick. my pressure plate is burning the machines too much !
Title: Re: THIS is why.....
Post by: Bob Leonard on July 17, 2014, 11:56:55 PM
In HS I drove a '56 Mercedes 220S with a 4 speed on the column. Real walnut dash (not just trim) and red leather seats.

This isn't my car, but it is the same interior.    https://www.flickr.com/photos/52124449@N07/6452886947/

Mac

That's so nice it's obscene. What's that car worth today Mac.

PS-Close friend is a Mercedes rep for the New England region and often brings home an exotic model for about 6 months. Lot's of fun.