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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Kevin Tracy on September 02, 2013, 08:10:30 AM
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So how close to QRX,SRX etc can this double MI cab get?
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So how close to QRX,SRX etc can this double MI cab get?
It's hard to discern what you're asking. Are you stacking an ELX cabinet on top of a ZLX cabinet and wanting to know how that combo would compare to the QRX212 or SRX722?
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Quality trumps quantity, especially for speakers.
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Quality trumps quantity, especially for speakers.
EVERY TIME.
Quantity just gives you louder- worse quality sound.
But of course it depends on what somebody is "looking for".
It is often quite surprising to me when people will pick out an obviously worse sounding speaker because that is what they are "used to" and think that is the way it is "supposed" to sound.
This is no opinion on the speakers in question-just a general statement
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The ZLX boxes cannot be stacked period... upper and lower surfaces are angled.
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The ZLX boxes cannot be stacked period... upper and lower surfaces are angled.
That's very usefull thanks
Now back to stacked ELX 120P
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That's very usefull thanks
Now back to stacked ELX 120P
Why stack two single boxes? What are you trying to accomplish? The HF driver in the QRX boxes will out run BOTH the HF drivers in the ELX. So you wont gain anything with two ELX but comb filtering and such. The QRX also has a better cabinet, better woofers, biampable or Passive and flyware. All of the QRX boxes get pretty loud and sound good doing it. I guess it depends on what you are doing.
The ELX are obviously pole mountable and lighter per box and thats their only advantage in this scenario that I see.
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The ZLX boxes cannot be stacked period... upper and lower surfaces are angled.
Perfect, now all we need is some truck straps and we can build a golf ball array with ZLX !!
Just tight pack them in every plane, strap them together and off you go.
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Perfect, now all we need is some truck straps and we can build a golf ball array with ZLX !!
Just tight pack them in every plane, strap them together and off you go.
Or turn them sideways and make a "line array" out of them.
Its been done-I am sure----------------------
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What would be the proper rotational speed to use this array as the largest Leslie cab ever?
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Perfect, now all we need is some truck straps and we can build a golf ball array with ZLX !!
Just tight pack them in every plane, strap them together and off you go.
That mental picture made my day. ;D
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Perfect, now all we need is some truck straps and we can build a golf ball array with ZLX !!
Just tight pack them in every plane, strap them together and off you go.
.... and how well did U2's "orange pumpkin" work out....... :o
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.... and how well did U2's "orange pumpkin" work out....... :o
OK Ha Ha on me. Now care to answer a serious question?
I have 4 EV ELX12Ps I use 2 over JBL 2x15 subs. I sometimes need more mid high spl. I'm looking at 2 solutions.
1- 1 over 1 ELX ( horns together)
2 - Buy something used like ev QRX 212. SRX722, SLS960, Jbl SR 47XX?
Solution 1 alows me to do jobs alone and 4 elxs alow a bigger veriety of venues needs.
solution 2 covers bigger $ jobs but they are once in a blue moon for me right now.
How much less mid high SPL is #1 than #2? Does it matter?
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Really loving where this topic is going :-). Getting beer and nuts ;-)
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Really loving where this topic is going :-). Getting beer and nuts ;-)
I'm ever so glad I can supply all your days with levity :) But I will endure being the brunt because I know there are open, sharing, expeienced pros on here too. I have enjoyed reading their posts for years.
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I'm ever so glad I can supply all your days with levity :) But I will endure being the brunt because I know there are open, sharing, expeienced pros on here too. I have enjoyed reading their posts for years.
As a frequent user of QRX212, if you don't mind the passive nature of them, you can most likely just use them for most/all of your gigs. They are pretty easily managed by one person for ground stacking on subs, and as has been mentioned, will outrun the MI boxes by quite a bit. If you need more boxes for fill for wide rooms, etc. you could look at using the ELX boxes on poles as fills. You'd be surprised probably what a single QRX212 will do. Other options will probably work too, but I go back to how easy this box is to handle with one person in most cases. Something like an SLS960 is going to be a 2 man lift every time.
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As a frequent user of QRX212, if you don't mind the passive nature of them, you can most likely just use them for most/all of your gigs. They are pretty easily managed by one person for ground stacking on subs, and as has been mentioned, will outrun the MI boxes by quite a bit. If you need more boxes for fill for wide rooms, etc. you could look at using the ELX boxes on poles as fills. You'd be surprised probably what a single QRX212 will do. Other options will probably work too, but I go back to how easy this box is to handle with one person in most cases. Something like an SLS960 is going to be a 2 man lift every time.
When using 2 QRX212 speakers side by side have you found an ideal distance to separate the fronts by?
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When using 2 QRX212 speakers side by side have you found an ideal distance to separate the fronts by?
You can rotate HF with these. Try the various orientations. Run some noise, have someone adjust the splay on the boxes, and use the distance with the least interference. If the coverage is too wide, turn the outside box down appropriately. It will also mitigate the interference issues.
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When using 2 QRX212 speakers side by side have you found an ideal distance to separate the fronts by?
About 4-5 inches at the front with the backs touching seems about right, in the field about a fist wide.
Although I have been in a room that has 2 per side just flat and it is not as bad as you might think it would be.
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OK Ha Ha on me. Now care to answer a serious question?
I have 4 EV ELX12Ps I use 2 over JBL 2x15 subs. I sometimes need more mid high spl. I'm looking at 2 solutions.
1- 1 over 1 ELX ( horns together)
2 - Buy something used like ev QRX 212. SRX722, SLS960, Jbl SR 47XX?
Solution 1 alows me to do jobs alone and 4 elxs alow a bigger veriety of venues needs.
solution 2 covers bigger $ jobs but they are once in a blue moon for me right now.
How much less mid high SPL is #1 than #2? Does it matter?
The 1 over 1 solution is bad. You get bad comb filtering which will negate much of the benefit of adding a second box. Get a QRX212 or an SRX722, and use your existing speakers as outfills for really big gigs, and alone for small ones.
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About 4-5 inches at the front with the backs touching seems about right, in the field about a fist wide.
Although I have been in a room that has 2 per side just flat and it is not as bad as you might think it would be.
4-5 inches at the front puts the cabs at about 40 degrees to one another. I would run my QRx115's (same horn) closer to 55 degrees. Either way will produce good results.
As Doug suggested, it's a good experiment to test this for yourself using pink noise. Be aware that comb filtering will be more obvious with pink noise than with music.
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The highest end cabs I've used are the SRX712M and QRX112, The QRX is big and heavy compared to the SRX and I believe either would put the ZLX to shame for performance with or without the horns coupled as you describe. The larger versions will give you more SPL but a 15 or double 12 are bound to be a little more muddy in the mids I think up to the point where the single 12 starts to distort enough to let the more robust cab take honors.
I like the idea of having both small and large cabs to perform a variety of functions at a wider variety of gigs. Personally, no matter how well done, even if it sounded OK, I think using the one inverted cab over another looks tacky. If you want to appreciate the higher end cabs, rent some first. You'll make less money on those gigs, but you'll learn which you like best. Also, when deciding on cabs, consider strongly what you can rent from another provider for when you have a gig where more, but same-model, cabs are needed. It will keep you from losing that gig to a larger provider.
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You can rotate HF with these. Try the various orientations. Run some noise, have someone adjust the splay on the boxes, and use the distance with the least interference. If the coverage is too wide, turn the outside box down appropriately. It will also mitigate the interference issues.
If I ever hung them sideways (if I wanted a lower profile) I have thought about trying to rotate the horns but the downward splay of the horn would make it rather weird rotating them when they are standing up. Most of the time these are used outdoors with the audience spread out rather wide. They are normally 75degrees wide by 50degrees with that 50 configured as 15degrees up and 35degrees down. So 2 of them (in normal configuration) should cover about 150dgrees wide and the audience where these are used the most times is on a flat surface. Lately a goose poop cover lawn but that is another subject. So I don’t want to lose all of the energy into the sky and too close up front. As far as turning the outer ones down I don’t really want to lose coverage or level to the side but it may be worth losing a little if it cleans it up. I will have to try that tomorrow.
I have a friend in Georgia that has some QRX and he has told me it is a real pain taking them apart and putting them back together. He was trying to play around with rotating the horns.
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About 4-5 inches at the front with the backs touching seems about right, in the field about a fist wide.
Although I have been in a room that has 2 per side just flat and it is not as bad as you might think it would be.
I have tired just about every combination of splay distances and (I feel) they always interfere unpleasantly between the 2 boxes. The first time I used them I asked the guy who had just bought them if he could return them. I should say I have never heard any point source boxes that I liked the way it sounds in-between them. I calculated what I thought that a box with a 75degree wide horn should have for a theoretical optimal spread and it was very wide. I think it was last year that I tried that. It seemed to sound a lot better with playback between the boxes. But when the band started to play (no sound check) it didn’t sound as good as it usually did for this system and I quickly readjusted the boxes angles. So I am probably not getting a full 150degrees of coverage but I am getting a rather wide pattern that I need in this application.
I did a show one time with them where the owner wanted to use two per side and the room wasn’t wide enough and didn’t need two per side. So I flat fronted them and did the old trick of vocals in one and instruments in the other. And they sounded really good.
I spoke to EV about this today and they are going to get back to me as to what they think the optimal spread should be. If I have time tomorrow (at the last outdoor show of the season that these are used for) I will have to play with some different settings and configurations.
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I have my horns rotated so the 15 degree sides are in the middle when stacked side by side. I then give them about 3 inches of space in front and cabs touching in rear.