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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => SR Forum Archives => LAB Subwoofer FUD Forum Archive => Topic started by: Todd Anisman on December 08, 2010, 01:43:04 pm

Title: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Todd Anisman on December 08, 2010, 01:43:04 pm
The word is that the Lab beats a KF940... but I think the KF goes lower, yes?  According to specs & whatnot...  Who's heard both?

There are good deals on the Labs & KF's right now...

Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Silas Pradetto on December 08, 2010, 01:53:33 pm
No chance is the KF940 going to beat a LAB. And no, it doesn't go lower.

index.php/fa/34117/0/

KF940 is a bit less than 100dB at 30Hz, let's say 98dB. The LAB, IIRC, is about 103dB at 30Hz. That's a 5dB advantage for LAB sub.

I don't know where the KF940 unloads, but it certainly looks like crap on the graph. EAW only gets it's flat response from a heavily EQ'd preset. The LAB unloads at about 30Hz, and in sufficient quantity could be used into the mid-20s.
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Todd Anisman on December 08, 2010, 02:12:10 pm
Interesting... I know you own Labs... Have you heard the KF's in a comparative fashion? Both are heavy ass beasts...  

would you say that 2 Labs per side would be enough Boom to cover 3-400 outdoors, at about 110dBa @ 75'?

I'm not great at the spec reading, and I find most of them to be somewhat misleading... Wink  so i ask these question from a real world & experience perspective..

tx,
T
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Silas Pradetto on December 08, 2010, 02:18:55 pm
Todd Anisman wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 14:12

Interesting... I know you own Labs... Have you heard the KF's in a comparative fashion? Both are heavy ass beasts...  

would you say that 2 Labs per side would be enough Boom to cover 3-400 outdoors, at about 110dBa @ 75'?

I'm not great at the spec reading, and I find most of them to be somewhat misleading... Wink  so i ask these question from a real world & experience perspective..

tx,
T


Two LABs = about 3-4 double 18s, so would do the job. Four is way overkill; you could do at least 1000 outside with four.

And we don't use the A weighting to measure subs, we use C.

Two LABs should be able to do 118dB at 105 feet, given each sub gets 2000 watts.
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Phil Lewandowski on December 08, 2010, 04:35:59 pm
Silas Pradetto { wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 13:53

No chance is the KF940 going to beat a LAB. And no, it doesn't go lower.

index.php/fa/34117/0/

KF940 is a bit less than 100dB at 30Hz, let's say 98dB. The LAB, IIRC, is about 103dB at 30Hz. That's a 5dB advantage for LAB sub.

I don't know where the KF940 unloads, but it certainly looks like crap on the graph. EAW only gets it's flat response from a heavily EQ'd preset. The LAB unloads at about 30Hz, and in sufficient quantity could be used into the mid-20s.


Hey Silas,

The thing that might shift things a touch is that that KF940 graph is in whole space according to the title at the top.


But if I had the choice I would most probably for with LABs.


Take Care,
Phil
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Silas Pradetto on December 08, 2010, 04:51:32 pm
Phil Lewandowski wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 16:35

Silas Pradetto { wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 13:53

No chance is the KF940 going to beat a LAB. And no, it doesn't go lower.

index.php/fa/34117/0/

KF940 is a bit less than 100dB at 30Hz, let's say 98dB. The LAB, IIRC, is about 103dB at 30Hz. That's a 5dB advantage for LAB sub.

I don't know where the KF940 unloads, but it certainly looks like crap on the graph. EAW only gets it's flat response from a heavily EQ'd preset. The LAB unloads at about 30Hz, and in sufficient quantity could be used into the mid-20s.


Hey Silas,

The thing that might shift things a touch is that that KF940 graph is in whole space according to the title at the top.


But if I had the choice I would most probably for with LABs.


Take Care,
Phil


That would definitely change things up. In that case, they'd be so close I'd probably want to listen the two systems properly powered and processed, side-by-side.

I've heard a BH760, which is a similar concept to the KF940, and while they do a good job, they're definitely no LAB.

Edit: and I don't know what was wrong with me before, the KF940 appears to unload at about 25Hz.
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Todd Anisman on December 08, 2010, 05:18:41 pm
All good... Like i said, I'm less interested in graphs as I am real world experiences...  although I get that the graphs, in an apples vs apples situation tell an accurate story.

It seems that they're fairly close, although I like the aesthetic of the lab sub a bit more Smile  

I think 4 of them would let me sell off my la400's and pickup some smaller powered 18"s for smaller gigs...
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: sheldon harris on December 12, 2010, 09:12:16 am
lab vs 940: i think it all depends on what you want from the boxes.

labs a more smoother sounding but does not go as low as the 940. the difference in extension is negligible, unless its for some specific sound effects, both can reproduce hi energy sub levels in the 35-80 pass bands.
i am not even going to look at the graphs to say this one: the 940 is loud as hell up high 100hz .(meaning, to me,the transition to tops with limited low mid output is better)
but its also big bulk and hard to maneuver.
i own 32 labs being driven by 8 qsc 9.0s and they are merciless on sub-bass content.
if i were to cast a vote, i would give it to the labsub.
i did work for another company that uses 16 940s below a full-size vertec rig, so its common for me to contrast and compare what they sound like.

word of caution: i have never heard a single lab or 940 (except when sweeping for problems) in my life,
only blocks of 4 and up
so the above subjective opinion is based on that
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Duane Silveira on December 13, 2010, 12:25:20 am
32 of them? Did you build them all or have them built for you? Jesus thats a lot of work!....im on my 5th and 6th and ive had enough!!! Surprised
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: sheldon harris on December 13, 2010, 06:43:21 am
gave the job to a friend of min whose specialty is building anything from wood.
he did all the pieces, first and then assembled after.
i can tell you this much 32 labs sitting on the floor of a shop in pieces is a lot of wood!
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Helge A. Bentsen on December 13, 2010, 05:33:46 pm
How's the KF940 compared to the BH760? Tried 8 BH760 this weekend, it was interesting Smile
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: sheldon harris on December 13, 2010, 09:48:16 pm
940 all the way.
760 does not have the output and lf extension. doesn't have the size and weight either Laughing
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Helge A. Bentsen on December 22, 2010, 07:41:48 pm
sheldon harris wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 03:48

940 all the way.
760 does not have the output and lf extension. doesn't have the size and weight either Laughing


In your opinion, how huge is the difference?

Thinking back I really liked those 760's.
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney) on December 23, 2010, 12:52:24 pm
Helge A. Bentsen wrote on Thu, 23 December 2010 00:41

sheldon harris wrote on Tue, 14 December 2010 03:48

940 all the way.
760 does not have the output and lf extension. doesn't have the size and weight either Laughing


In your opinion, how huge is the difference?

Thinking back I really liked those 760's.


Isn't the BH more like a touring version of the DCS2?

Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: sheldon harris on December 25, 2010, 01:00:12 am
the bh series are touring yes, but their size and weight proved detrimental to the them "catching on"
i think dcs were eaw's way of getting their new expensive,bent horn technology into clubs, without the owners complaining about space.

Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Tim Padrick on February 08, 2011, 01:04:32 am
The BH760 is the worst sub I've heard.  A friend mixed on a 730/BH760 rig and he thought the same thing.  (Both rigs were 2x2 per side.)  The tops sounded good though.
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Silas Pradetto on February 10, 2011, 07:24:41 pm
Tim Padrick wrote on Tue, 08 February 2011 01:04

The BH760 is the worst sub I've heard.  A friend mixed on a 730/BH760 rig and he thought the same thing.  (Both rigs were 2x2 per side.)  The tops sounded good though.


Probably wasn't aligned or tuned right then. I've tuned them and they sound quite nice, at least in the room where I did the alignment.
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Jason Phair on February 12, 2011, 10:57:36 pm
Yeah, the BH760's are pretty rough.

Then again, I've never met a horn-loaded sub I liked anyway, so what does that say?


Edited to say that I lied:  I did like Turbo 21" scoops.  That being said, I was merely a spectator that day, so I don't know how I would have reacted to them myself.

Edited again to make it sound like I wasn't drunk. (and I wasn't!)
Title: Re: Lab Sub Vs EAW KF940
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 14, 2011, 07:42:53 am
Jason Phair wrote on Sat, 12 February 2011 22:57

Edited again to make it sound like I wasn't drunk. (and I wasn't!)

Seems like that is problem that you are concerned with? Rolling Eyes