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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: Ed Ring on March 24, 2018, 03:39:03 PM
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New here . . . searched, but didn't find an answer, so asking:
Using a dozen Chauvet SlimPar ProH (RGBAW-UV) fixtures, but can't seem to get the deep colors I'm looking for:
Red - want Roscolux 027, but getting something with a bit more orange than I want
Green - want Roscolux 091, but getting something with more yellow
Blue - want Roscolux 382, but getting something lighter/brighter
Purple - want Roscolux 059, but can't seem to quite get there . . . the UV color is very close, but it also adds the whole 'black light' effect, which is not always desired.
All RGB settings are full-on (255), with only the R, or G, or B emitters active (except for the purple, duh).
Is it my color mixing? The LEDs themselves? I see the colors I want in, say, certain Martin fixtures (and others) . . . is there a difference in the LEDs being used? Suggestions?
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Ed, welcome to the world of LED lighting. You will find it very hard to duplicate the full range of gels that work so well with incandescent lighting. The individual led emitter color is a very narrow spectrum, so there are limits to how the individual R,G,B, A, W, and UV leds can combine to produce colors. I'm not trying to disparage Chauvet or other lower cost LED light fixture suppliers. Usually you will have to spend a lot more to get a broader range of colors, and even then not every gel color will be available to the best of my knowledge. It's the physics of light.
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The RGBALime fixtures from Chauvet Professional and ETC may get you there (or a lot closer,anyway). Stay in the same brand for more consistant color on stage. I.e., don't mix Chauvet Pro and ETC fixtures. We found that out the hard way....
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The RGBALime fixtures from Chauvet Professional and ETC may get you there (or a lot closer,anyway). Stay in the same brand for more consistant color on stage. I.e., don't mix Chauvet Pro and ETC fixtures. We found that out the hard way....
That's a good point Mark. Additionally, the lower to cost of the fixture, the greater the variation in colors from batch to batch. I've purchased some lights that I really liked the color and bought more a few months later. When sent exactly the same DMX signal (or set manually) there was a noticeable difference in some colors.
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Congo Blue has always been a problem. With incandescent lights it has a transmission of 1%, and you had to replace it frequently.
With the ETC Colorsource fixtures, the design goal was better pastels for front lighting. Since there was a desire for similar fixtures that were better at the deeper blues they came out with another fixture, the Deep Blue model. With the recently released Colorsource Cyc, they came up with the RGBALI model with both Blue and Indigo emitters. In other ETC news, after testing, they have extended the warranty on MOST of the LED fixtures (the 4WRD isn't included) to 5 years for the full fixture and 10 years for the LED arrays.
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New here . . . searched, but didn't find an answer, so asking:
Using a dozen Chauvet SlimPar ProH (RGBAW-UV) fixtures, but can't seem to get the deep colors I'm looking for:
Red - want Roscolux 027, but getting something with a bit more orange than I want
Green - want Roscolux 091, but getting something with more yellow
Blue - want Roscolux 382, but getting something lighter/brighter
Purple - want Roscolux 059, but can't seem to quite get there . . . the UV color is very close, but it also adds the whole 'black light' effect, which is not always desired.
All RGB settings are full-on (255), with only the R, or G, or B emitters active (except for the purple, duh).
Is it my color mixing? The LEDs themselves? I see the colors I want in, say, certain Martin fixtures (and others) . . . is there a difference in the LEDs being used? Suggestions?
Have you tried adding small amounts of other colors to the primary color of interest to get what you want? Sometimes it takes that kind of experimenting to tweak the colors.
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Ed, welcome to the world of LED lighting. You will find it very hard to duplicate the full range of gels that work so well with incandescent lighting. The individual led emitter color is a very narrow spectrum, so there are limits to how the individual R,G,B, A, W, and UV leds can combine to produce colors. I'm not trying to disparage Chauvet or other lower cost LED light fixture suppliers. Usually you will have to spend a lot more to get a broader range of colors, and even then not every gel color will be available to the best of my knowledge. It's the physics of light.
Thanks for taking time to reply! I kinda figured that the higher cost LED fixtures would have better color capability, and I totally get the 'hard to duplicate gels' thing . . . just hadn't found anything (until I asked here!) to confirm that. I'll keep tweaking and experimenting . . .
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Have you tried adding small amounts of other colors to the primary color of interest to get what you want? Sometimes it takes that kind of experimenting to tweak the colors.
Thanks for the reply! Yes, I've tried lots of combinations, but certainly haven't tried everything yet. Was hoping there were some secret formulas I hadn't hit on yet . . . guess the 'secret' is to buy higher-quality fixtures. No real surprise there, I guess . . . just don't have the budget for that, so guess I'll muddle along and do the best I can.
Thanks again for taking time to reply . . .
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The RGBALime fixtures from Chauvet Professional and ETC may get you there (or a lot closer,anyway). Stay in the same brand for more consistant color on stage. I.e., don't mix Chauvet Pro and ETC fixtures. We found that out the hard way....
Thanks for the caution on not mixing brands (makes sense) . . . I was about to order some ETC ColorSource fixtures to try! Should have mentioned that all my stuff is static . . . I don't have rigging to support movers . . . and the only RGBALime fixtures I saw on Chauvet's site were house lights (too big) and movers. But thanks for the tip . . . I'll look for RGBALime options in the future.
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Hi Ed,
I'll just throw in too that Elation is also coming out with a SevenPar Series that adds Lime to their already successful SixPar Series. I'd still expect ETC's offering to be superior, but if size/cost/IP65 is a concern they might be worth a look too. For what it's worth I'm a huge fan of the SlimPar Pro fixtures, but there's a reason why they're only 10-20% the cost of the ETC products! Good luck!
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Chauvet Pro has a line of zoom wash fixed instruments (COLORada) in RGBAL. Bright but heavy. But they replace three or more fresnal fixtures, so not so bad overall. Their RGBAL elipsoidal fixture is a SourceFour clone - S4 barrels interchange with ETC.
The new Indigo lights mentioned above sound pretty cool as wash lighting.
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The variance in similar LEDs is directly related to cost.
They actually measure the accuracy and separate them.
This is called binning, and the cheaper the fixture, the looser the bin.
You can get a fairly wide variance IN THE SAME FIXTURE!
The high end lights pretty much guarantee consistency fixture to fixture.
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Chauvet Pro has a line of zoom wash fixed instruments (COLORada) in RGBAL. Bright but heavy. But they replace three or more fresnal fixtures, so not so bad overall. Their RGBAL elipsoidal fixture is a SourceFour clone - S4 barrels interchange with ETC.
The new Indigo lights mentioned above sound pretty cool as wash lighting.
Yeah, I saw those . . . a bit too large/heavy for what I need (stand-based one-off shows for a local cover band). This was my first foray into LED lighting . . . just trying to understand what questions to ask in the future so I can get closer to what I want.
May yet try some of the ColorSource Deep Blues . . . might just be a slightly less expensive alternative to 'real' wash lights.
Thanks for the reply!!
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Hi Ed,
I'll just throw in too that Elation is also coming out with a SevenPar Series that adds Lime to their already successful SixPar Series. I'd still expect ETC's offering to be superior, but if size/cost/IP65 is a concern they might be worth a look too. For what it's worth I'm a huge fan of the SlimPar Pro fixtures, but there's a reason why they're only 10-20% the cost of the ETC products! Good luck!
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for taking time to reply! Yeah, as an entry point into the LED wash light world, the SlimPar Pro H does OK . . . but now I think I understand a bit more about why I can't get the colors I want. And you're right . . . there IS a reason these fixtures are far cheaper than the ETC/Martin products.
For example, when I jumped in to LEDs, I didn't really grok that there were different kinds/levels of emitters for each color . . . and it totally makes sense that it costs more to get closer to those Roscolux colors I used for years.
Is there a specific type of LED (brand, spectrum specification, etc.) that I should be looking for to get those deeper colors? For example, if Chauvet uses an 'XYZ' red emitter that leans too far into the orange for my taste (or a blue emitter that's too bright/yellow), is there a spec for the 'ABC' emitters that gets into the spectrums that I want? Or do I just have to try different fixtures until I find the magic?
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Yeah, I saw those . . . a bit too large/heavy for what I need (stand-based one-off shows for a local cover band). This was my first foray into LED lighting . . . just trying to understand what questions to ask in the future so I can get closer to what I want.
May yet try some of the ColorSource Deep Blues . . . might just be a slightly less expensive alternative to 'real' wash lights.
Thanks for the reply!!
I'm a long-time user of the Chauvet SlimPAR Pro RGBA (now discontinued), and I have used the ETC Colorsource PAR Deep Blue. I didn't do much for head-to-head comparison, but to my eye, the deep blues were about the same. Build quality was nicer on the ETC, of course.
I think your best bet is getting fixture demos. You're not likely to get specific emitter information from low-mid-level fixtures.
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Is there a specific type of LED (brand, spectrum specification, etc.) that I should be looking for to get those deeper colors? For example, if Chauvet uses an 'XYZ' red emitter that leans too far into the orange for my taste (or a blue emitter that's too bright/yellow), is there a spec for the 'ABC' emitters that gets into the spectrums that I want? Or do I just have to try different fixtures until I find the magic?
I think your best bet is getting fixture demos. You're not likely to get specific emitter information from low-mid-level fixtures.
Exactly. Getting a demo of the fixtures you're considering is always the best way to see exactly what you're getting. Unfortunately, the way a fixture "looks" doesn't translate too well onto the spec sheet, just like the way a speaker "sounds" isn't found on the spec sheet either. Spec sheets and manuals give you a good idea of what the unit should be capable of doing, but beyond that the only way to tell if it'll fit your needs/tastes is to demo.
If you're serious about buying decent fixtutes it'll be in your best interest to build a good relationship with a dealer that can help to facilitate the demos you need. Alternatively, most lighting brands have showrooms you can visit as well, but depending on where you live that might not be realistic. Good luck!
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Ed, I just installed eight Chauvet Intimidator Wash Zoom 450 IRC's at a local church. Like you, I had not been able to find a fixture that had the deep blue color I really desired. These 450's impressed me. Though I did not have a par can with a Congo Blue gel to compare with, it was how I remember that gel looking on stage. It is a moving head wash and not what I would call inexpensive, but I loved the blue it produced. I'd put it on a list to check out.