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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Bill McIntosh on December 03, 2012, 10:41:53 PM
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I ran across a listing for one of these, asking $300. I have not traveled to hear it yet, but is there a required controller for this to work? Is that a decent price, assuming it is in working order? I use a DR260 for a crossover.
Application would be replacing a pair of PV-118 for a local cover band (pop, classic rock, a little modern country). Goal is to get better quality and low end extension, not much louder.
Some hesitation about one two-driver box versus two singles, both for flexibility and for load in/out.
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Without the processor it's a pretty lame box.
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Bill,
I ran Bag End subs for a long time and found them OK for small club work but not much else. I finally upgraded the drivers with JBL 2242H 18" drivers and they have become monster subs equal to the JBL 718.
BE uses eminence drivers which are OK. I would stay away from this purchase and hold out until you could afford some better subs than than the D18E
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Without the processor it's a pretty lame box.
No need for the processor. The box is just a pair of 18"s and will run fine using a DR 260.
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Bag End subs are basically small, sealed boxes intended to be run below resonance with the matching 'integrator' providing compensation for the resulting natural roll-off in LF response. Without the integrator or comparable processing they are a small, sealed box with the expected LF response, with the integrator or comparable processing they can have extended low frequency output but at the tradeoff of lower output. http://www.bagend.com/bagend/what_is_infra.htm (http://www.bagend.com/bagend/what_is_infra.htm) and http://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/infra_spkr_sens.pdf (http://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/infra_spkr_sens.pdf) put this in graphical form.
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I can't add much to what Brad said, except that we've got one of these (and the ELF processor) in a fairly large studio control room, supplementing a pair of Meyer HD-1s, and it's adequate for that job. Larger room and live band... maybe not.
As I recall the integrator boosts the low end at 6 dB/8ve, so it's not hard to see that you'd run out of amplifier voltage if you go very low or very loud. Can you set up a DR260 to give you a boost like that on the low end? It's essentially a mirror image of CD horn EQ.
GTD
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I can't add much to what Brad said, except that we've got one of these (and the ELF processor) in a fairly large studio control room, supplementing a pair of Meyer HD-1s, and it's adequate for that job. Larger room and live band... maybe not.
As I recall the integrator boosts the low end at 6 dB/8ve, so it's not hard to see that you'd run out of amplifier voltage if you go very low or very loud. Can you set up a DR260 to give you a boost like that on the low end? It's essentially a mirror image of CD horn EQ.
GTD
Thanks -- I will go listen and see how it does. The DR260 has subsonic synth, although I not tried it. Might be more appropriate to use a parametric on the sub out, no need to get much below 30 Hz anyway.
It was not clear if this was a self-powered version, Bag End does not list a "-0" version, only -I and -R.
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It was not clear if this was a self-powered version, Bag End does not list a "-0" version, only -I and -R.
I wondered about that too. Ours is a D18E-I, presumably for install. "R" might be "road" version. I don't know what "O" would be. The powered versions seem to have a "P" prefix.
GTD
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Thanks -- I will go listen and see how it does. The DR260 has subsonic synth, although I not tried it. Might be more appropriate to use a parametric on the sub out, no need to get much below 30 Hz anyway.
It was not clear if this was a self-powered version, Bag End does not list a "-0" version, only -I and -R.
Avoid using subharmonic synths. Really, truly, seriously.
As for subs in general, how much output do you need, what are your size/weight/powering limits? There are probably much better alternatives than the Bag End.
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Avoid using subharmonic synths. Really, truly, seriously.
As for subs in general, how much output do you need, what are your size/weight/powering limits? There are probably much better alternatives than the Bag End.
Thanks Tim -- I had not tried the synth, now I won't bother.
I checked that unit -- it is an install version that looked like it had toured (and been dropped off the liftgate). Pass.
I am looking to keep the same low end volume but to extend the -3db to 30 Hz from current 40 Hz, and get a little more 'chest thump'. The electronic pad is the primary sound through the subs, some kick and a little bass. Drummer has good control and bass player does not get crazy so stage volume is not bad.
Limiting factors are budget (not much in the kitty right now) and packing in a mini van. I would prefer 2 single cabs versus a double. The current PV-118 subs are 22"W x 27"H x 19-1/2"D and weigh 75 lbs each -- ideally, new subs are not much bigger or heavier. I can get help at the venue for load-in and load-out, not so much at home. Self-powered is a plus, I can dispose of the amp and case.
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Thanks Tim -- I had not tried the synth, now I won't bother.
I checked that unit -- it is an install version that looked like it had toured (and been dropped off the liftgate). Pass.
I am looking to keep the same low end volume but to extend the -3db to 30 Hz from current 40 Hz, and get a little more 'chest thump'. The electronic pad is the primary sound through the subs, some kick and a little bass. Drummer has good control and bass player does not get crazy so stage volume is not bad.
Limiting factors are budget (not much in the kitty right now) and packing in a mini van. I would prefer 2 single cabs versus a double. The current PV-118 subs are 22"W x 27"H x 19-1/2"D and weigh 75 lbs each -- ideally, new subs are not much bigger or heavier. I can get help at the venue for load-in and load-out, not so much at home. Self-powered is a plus, I can dispose of the amp and case.
The 30-40Hz area is not thump, it is your pant legs ruffling. Chest thump is 80-120ish.
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30Hz and tight - Danley TH-118's. You'll have to save for a bit first.
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30Hz and tight - Danley TH-118's. You'll have to save for a bit first.
Amen to that.
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I run two pairs of the R model without the ELF processor and like them just fine. Never felt they were lacking and they're very well built.