leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 08:12 |
Hello, i have not beeen on for a while,can anyone shed light on time aligning or phase aligning the subs to the tops...... Which way do i time align the system so i dont have phasing problems ,which i think i have at the minute..... do i , delay the tops to the subs?????????? or the subs to the tops????????? also what problems do i encounter when i place one sub at either side of the stage?????? the power alley effect,would it be better to stack them all at one point....a centre stack or a right stack? Leon |
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 08:13 |
The Danley is a horn loaded sub so if the horn is say 14 foot do i add a 14ft delay to the tops? Leon |
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 09:21 |
Also, which is the best way to go.reverse polarity the subs,different people different views,well it depends on this depends on that,do you or dont you?????????? i read on here that the subs need to be reversed polaritied because of the magnet in TH115????????? No point in buying a Ferrari then it runs like a scrapped car, I ran the SM60 on a yamaha home cinema amp and it was awsome 60 watts. In my live situation i put a FP3400 and it seems i have to thronk the living daylights out of it just to get it up there,also people who have watched us say it sounds muffled????????? So if i am correct if the tops are not in phase with the subs then i get rhubarb sound or in simple terms a pile of bad sounding crap. Leon |
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 12:46 |
Many thanks Ivan for your reply..... ok lets run a scenario...... the L/R speakers are 25 ft apart in a small venue and the subs are underneath the tops all speakers facing out.The Danley top boxes are around 2 feet set back flown on trussing 8 feet in the air.Now does the Sub from what i have explained need to be delayed to compensate for the top being 2 feet back or does the top Danley box need to be delayed to compensate for the time it takes the sound to go around the horn then out of the front of the TH115........ The Danley horn as i believe is roughly 9 and a half feet in length,so that would be if im thinking logicaly 9ms of delay but the top boxes are 2 feet behind the top boxes...... So is that a 7 ms delay on the tops or possibly a delay of 2ms on the subs if the length of horn has no bearing in sound,any phasing you know is bad for sound even if it is just around the crossover point...... all i know is this im having to nearly get my FP3400 to nearly clip to get the SM60f loud around 110 db but if i run say a 800 watt amp on it its very quiet even at full on power???? If i run the SM60 on a tiny 60 watt amp in my home cinema its stupid how loud it goes.....if i put the SM60F on my Lab amp its getting over 20 x the power at full on power.... Up to now i have had to replace 5 horns in one of the Danley SM60f,i work in a situation where a lot of singers and performers watch other acts,now when a few musiscians come up to you and say its muffled then i am bemused.... When you spec'd the output of the Danleys saying at the mid 120db range it was loud.....what amp was on it? wat slope of dsp. |
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 10:46 |
all i know is this im having to nearly get my FP3400 to nearly clip to get the SM60f loud around 110 db but if i run say a 800 watt amp on it its very quiet even at full on power???? If i run the SM60 on a tiny 60 watt amp in my home cinema its stupid how loud it goes.....if i put the SM60F on my Lab amp its getting over 20 x the power at full on power.... |
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 13:27 |
Hi its the same box that has failed drivers its the hi driver the bms,after inspection it was a very tiny burn or break in the copper coil,maybe i have run them a little high but say if at the minute it was say an 800 watt amp on instead of the Fp3400 then it would be very quiet. i do mean quiet. I love my danleys just trying to eradicate problems i have. Leon. |
Art Welter wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 13:44 |
[Rather than going over sub alignment in detail, I’d suggest doing a search, the subject has been covered in the Lounge many times. |
Jeff Bailie wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 15:44 |
Hi Leon. Sorry if I am mistaken, But are you not the same person who has had problems with Sm60's since there debut? I have read over your posts for months now. I would get into your system prossesor and make sure you have it setup right. It sounds to me like you have some sort of Autogain or a compressor engaged or something... Have you tried pluging the speakers directly into the amp and using full range signal? Or checked to see if your amp has processing that you may have left on? Something is wrong, But like Ivan says It doesn't sound like the cabinet. I would get into the signal flow of things. Maybe reset your processor back to factory settings and start all over. If all else fails, send it in to get looked at. I Delay my Sh50's about 10 feet or so to my Labhorns.. I do this by ear. If I use reference material that has a sharp 4 on the floor beat(techno) I can hear when the kick is aligned. When I use subs in a stereo fashion what I really notice is the nodes and anti-nodes. As you walk from one side of the venue to the other you can hear a fan like splay of unevenness in the coverage. In a mono style fashion this wont happen. I don't know what to tell you about the phasing problem. Again, I think it is your signal processing. If you had audible phasing problems with your speakers. It would only be noticeable where your two signals overlap at the crossover point. You should try separating the crossover point so they don't overlap and see what that sounds like. And my last suggestion is to try a different system processor. |
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 20:19 |
Hi Jeff, ive used the EAW UX8800 processor from the moment i got the Danleys in just the ordinary DSP type processor mode,ive buzzed all my cables,checked all my loudspeaker cables. All the cables are Van Damme cables which are the touring choice of cables in the UK,all connectors are Neutrik. The Ux8800 is set to 25hz LPF and 79.2 HPF for the Subs 79.2 LPF and 20khz HPF for the Tops/ 24db BW for the slopes with a 6db BW for the high end. Centre speaker set to 120 LPF/20KHZ HPF No Compression or Limiting on the UX8800. Amps set to 35db of input gain, UX8800 set to normal no gain added or subtracted. Im Using a Digital desk....So i ask does the Latency of the desk and the latency of the processor have bearing on sound,the processor i believe to be 3.13ms of latency.so say the desk had 1.5ms of latency,that would be nearly 5ms of latency plus any time alignment issues reguarding tops to subs.I do apologise for not understanding things but its a learning process. many thanks Leon |
leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 20:23 |
If there was phasing issues at the crossover point how much does it affect????? my guess the phasing just wouldnt stop at say a crossover point of 80Hz,would it affect frequencies to either side of the crossover point. Leon |
Mark Lonow wrote on Sun, 16 January 2011 19:48 |
60x60 is a general spec it probaly narrows as frequency goes up wider as it goes down |
leon garrity wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 14:04 |
my conclusions are USB is for printers not audio. |
leon garrity wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 09:04 |
Hi Mark, I think in this instance its not whether the boxes are at fault but down to the usb connection from laptop to external soundcard.which i have used ever since getting my EAW rig.... My first realization that something was not correct when people start commenting that something doesn't sound right.However because you are using the equipment to the best of your ability you carry on so to speak.You check all cables,check PC,check drivers,amps,still utilizing the laptop as its my source for work purposes.Then i came to the conclusion it must be the rig.I purchase the Danley rig,firstly test it with a Cd player and some different genres of music,Sting,Pavarotti.Sounded ace. Then go to work as normal,taking for granted that your laptop is doing its job via the souncard.But one thing i notice is from the very beginning i am having to drive it so very hard,hard as i mean push the Lab amps to the point of clip.If i run it low its pointless..Ending with blown horns.........not good! Then three weeks ago an artiste freind who also is a very good engineer says "something don't sound right in your system" this then got my cogs turning and wanted to understand why why why? Impossible two world class rigs can sound bad (unless i was bad in a past life)Ive also changed from EAW UX8800 to BSS minidrive.So whilst at the gig on Saturday night,after the first set i disengaged external soundcard,using internal soundcard taking source from headphone jack......Low and behold i have a rig....... Reguarding the Danley top box,it is amazing,fair enough outside dispersion it drops off in level etc but due to the scary pattern control.In this case my findings are user stupidity,not checking every element for granted and thinking that it has to be something you can either hear or see.From my research of this last weekend.my conclusions are USB is for printers not audio. kindest reguards Leon. |