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Title: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on February 17, 2014, 04:20:33 PM
Ever since I upgraded my subwoofers, I have been unimpressed with the output on my speakers since the subwoofers easily outrun them.  I am very curious about the Danley SM80, but my only concern is will they lack the warmth needed for live bands outdoors?  Will they sound nicer with a sub right under them allowing the sub to take on the midbass region a little?  I really would like 95dB sustained at 60ft outdoors.  Or, would another design such as SM96 offer a better sound for me?

Let me know what information you would like about my setup.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Jared Koopman on February 17, 2014, 05:10:05 PM


Let me know what information you would like about my setup.

How about, what is your setup?
ANd who are you trying to impress?
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 17, 2014, 07:57:51 PM
Ever since I upgraded my subwoofers, I have been unimpressed with the output on my speakers since the subwoofers easily outrun them.  I am very curious about the Danley SM80, but my only concern is will they lack the warmth needed for live bands outdoors?  Will they sound nicer with a sub right under them allowing the sub to take on the midbass region a little?  I really would like 95dB sustained at 60ft outdoors.  Or, would another design such as SM96 offer a better sound for me?

Let me know what information you would like about my setup.
We demo the Sm80 all the time with a sub with a lowpass around 90-100Hz.

The SM80-(because it is a sealed box not ported) has a slower rolloff than other cabinets and because subs are typically run at much higher levels than full range boxes, the midbass has not been an issue (that we are aware of) on any of the gigs it is being used on.

Yes the SM96 goes lower-but has less max output.

You say 95dB sustained.  Is that C or A weighting? 

If it is A weighted (A should not be used above 80dB-but we won't go there), and 60' is a 25dB loss then you have a"sustained output of 95dB-then that is 120dB at 1M.  Depending on the peak of the music it could be in the range of 10-20dB-so that gives and idea of 130-140dB needed.

If the 95dB is C weighted it gets a bit harder because the difference between A and C can be quite large-but typically 10-15dBish.  So that would push the max output requirement of the full range cabinet down a good bit.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 17, 2014, 08:55:50 PM
Just one more thing about the sealed box aspect of the SM80.

Because it is a sealed box, the impedance down in "midbass" area is pretty high-which means that it is hard to overpower-heating wise since for a given voltage the actual heat is low in that area.

Also the excursion is low-again due to the sealed box-so it does not "flop around" like drivers that in ported cabinets.

So you can actually apply a decent amount of boost down low to lower the response without hurting the driver.

The reason for the sealed cabinet is to make integration easier with a sub and to help increase sensitivity of the cabinet.  And to keep the size small.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on February 18, 2014, 11:32:06 AM
We demo the Sm80 all the time with a sub with a lowpass around 90-100Hz.

The SM80-(because it is a sealed box not ported) has a slower rolloff than other cabinets and because subs are typically run at much higher levels than full range boxes, the midbass has not been an issue (that we are aware of) on any of the gigs it is being used on.

Yes the SM96 goes lower-but has less max output.

You say 95dB sustained.  Is that C or A weighting? 

If it is A weighted (A should not be used above 80dB-but we won't go there), and 60' is a 25dB loss then you have a"sustained output of 95dB-then that is 120dB at 1M.  Depending on the peak of the music it could be in the range of 10-20dB-so that gives and idea of 130-140dB needed.

If the 95dB is C weighted it gets a bit harder because the difference between A and C can be quite large-but typically 10-15dBish.  So that would push the max output requirement of the full range cabinet down a good bit.

Hey guys! I do a lot of church outreach and typically run around 90dBA/105dBC. I like mixing with a lot of punchy low end and sufficient warmth. There are times when I need a little more than that though. So, an extra 5dB is nice there. I have four large horn subs (Titan 39's very wide with Lab 12 drivers).  The subwoofers sound really good actually. I typically have around 10dB left on them when mixing a band.  The extra is nice for when I have a rap artist. A typical audience is usually 40 to 90 feet away and anywhere from 100 to 400 people.  I use two DR250's for mains. While great for the price (since I dont have much money) and being able to squeeze a good sound out, I would rather have something that is a joy to mix on that I am not pushing to the limits every time. Does this help? 80 degrees dispersion is probably just enough as well.

Sealed will cause less phase interference with the sub as well right? Since the phase doesn't flip at the ported frequency.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on February 18, 2014, 02:17:01 PM
How about, what is your setup?
ANd who are you trying to impress?

Right now for FOH I have:

Yamaha 01V
2 Crown XTI 2000
4 27" Lab 12 Titan 39
2 DR250's
MacBook Pro
Avid 003 Rack/Pro Tools 9 for recording
Microphones: Heil PR35, Audix VX5, CAD M179, Shure Beta 52, etc. etc. I do live mix downs sometimes and these mics lend themselves well to a live recording

A typical setup would be: drums, bass guitar, keyboard, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, percussion of some sort, and about two to three vocals with 4 wedges and two in ear monitors.  I am able to get a good sound from this setup.

Above I posted the kind of audience I would have.  Indoors I have to problems, but outdoors, I am lacking output capabilities on the speakers.  On the speakers, I have them high passed at 100Hz 24dB/Oct to try to get more output from them.  It cleaned up the mids for sure.  Probably due to the woofer not moving nearly as much.  They are supposed to be able to reproduce 80Hz, but start sloping down at 120Hz as seen on my analyzer.  70Hz 18dB/Oct lowpass slope on the subs and 100Hz 24dB/Oct highpass slope on the tops created a nice response to where there is not a gap in the 100Hz area, but gives a nice slope up on the subs under 80Hz or so.  The subs are so much more efficient than the speakers that a lot of time I end up turning the output down on the subs a few dB.

The only limitation I really have is that a lot of times I only have one 20 amp circuit for FOH and one for backline/monitors.  I have never had an issue with the two XTI2000 amps on one circuit.

I am curious about the new Danley designs because it looks like having great sound quality and output may not be out of the question for my budget.  That's why I have DIY speakers now. 
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: George Dougherty on February 19, 2014, 11:59:28 PM
Right now for FOH I have:

Yamaha 01V
2 Crown XTI 2000
4 27" Lab 12 Titan 39
2 DR250's
MacBook Pro
Avid 003 Rack/Pro Tools 9 for recording
Microphones: Heil PR35, Audix VX5, CAD M179, Shure Beta 52, etc. etc. I do live mix downs sometimes and these mics lend themselves well to a live recording

A typical setup would be: drums, bass guitar, keyboard, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, percussion of some sort, and about two to three vocals with 4 wedges and two in ear monitors.  I am able to get a good sound from this setup.

Above I posted the kind of audience I would have.  Indoors I have to problems, but outdoors, I am lacking output capabilities on the speakers.  On the speakers, I have them high passed at 100Hz 24dB/Oct to try to get more output from them.  It cleaned up the mids for sure.  Probably due to the woofer not moving nearly as much.  They are supposed to be able to reproduce 80Hz, but start sloping down at 120Hz as seen on my analyzer.  70Hz 18dB/Oct lowpass slope on the subs and 100Hz 24dB/Oct highpass slope on the tops created a nice response to where there is not a gap in the 100Hz area, but gives a nice slope up on the subs under 80Hz or so.  The subs are so much more efficient than the speakers that a lot of time I end up turning the output down on the subs a few dB.

The only limitation I really have is that a lot of times I only have one 20 amp circuit for FOH and one for backline/monitors.  I have never had an issue with the two XTI2000 amps on one circuit.

I am curious about the new Danley designs because it looks like having great sound quality and output may not be out of the question for my budget.  That's why I have DIY speakers now.
By all reports, and some of my own experience with the OT12's, the BF designs do better with multiple boxes per side.  IIRC, it's because you're increasing the horn mouth area and the LF extension slightly along with the added output capability from the drivers and power handling.  I never run fewer than 2 OT12's per side because it's about as easy to set them up either way and the extra headroom is always nice.  The DR250 is about a match for the OT12 in output with a touch more low end extension.

That said, the Danley designs are great boxes and personally I've been very happy moving away from BF wedgehorns to a set of db Tech 12" coaxial wedges.  I think the BF designs really do best with the premium drivers (often non-eminence) and biamping to allow for proper processing of the HF and LF sections.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on February 23, 2014, 07:21:39 PM
By all reports, and some of my own experience with the OT12's, the BF designs do better with multiple boxes per side.  IIRC, it's because you're increasing the horn mouth area and the LF extension slightly along with the added output capability from the drivers and power handling.  I never run fewer than 2 OT12's per side because it's about as easy to set them up either way and the extra headroom is always nice.  The DR250 is about a match for the OT12 in output with a touch more low end extension.

That said, the Danley designs are great boxes and personally I've been very happy moving away from BF wedgehorns to a set of db Tech 12" coaxial wedges.  I think the BF designs really do best with the premium drivers (often non-eminence) and biamping to allow for proper processing of the HF and LF sections.

So it looks like you are suggesting adding a couple of cabinets rather than looking into different speakers?

I am just curious how much more output I will get from the woofers adding two more boxes and if it will be worth it.  Plus, I wonder since it would start to become a short line array if I will like the sound.  I can't recall ever hearing or mixing on any line array where I am like wow this is great.  Point source is where it's at.

Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 23, 2014, 07:59:19 PM
So it looks like you are suggesting adding a couple of cabinets rather than looking into different speakers?

I am just curious how much more output I will get from the woofers adding two more boxes and if it will be worth it.  Plus, I wonder since it would start to become a short line array if I will like the sound.  I can't recall ever hearing or mixing on any line array where I am like wow this is great.  Point source is where it's at.
It all depends on the freq.  Assuming the drivers are within 1/4 wavelength of the freq of interest-when you double the NUMBER of boxes and keep the same power going to each driver you will get a maximum of 6dB louder.

Adding 2 boxes to 2 boxes will gt you 6dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 4 will only get around 3dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 10 will barely be noticable.

Everything has to do with wavelength and spacing as to whether they will add or subtract.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on February 24, 2014, 09:39:38 AM
It all depends on the freq.  Assuming the drivers are within 1/4 wavelength of the freq of interest-when you double the NUMBER of boxes and keep the same power going to each driver you will get a maximum of 6dB louder.

Adding 2 boxes to 2 boxes will gt you 6dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 4 will only get around 3dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 10 will barely be noticable.

Everything has to do with wavelength and spacing as to whether they will add or subtract.

Cool, then just quickly in my head it should couple pretty well up to the 600Hz area. Assuming a ballpark from the center of the horn? Would that be right? I really need the extra 300Hz to 100Hz so that would be okay...these things have no problem producing 1.5kHz and above with 22 tweeters.... and I am already taking a dip out around 600Hz.

Thank you guys for the help
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 24, 2014, 02:05:52 PM
Cool, then just quickly in my head it should couple pretty well up to the 600Hz area. Assuming a ballpark from the center of the horn? Would that be right? I really need the extra 300Hz to 100Hz so that would be okay...these things have no problem producing 1.5kHz and above with 22 tweeters.... and I am already taking a dip out around 600Hz.

Thank you guys for the help
Let's do a little math. 600Hz is 1.88' so 1/4 of that is less than 6".  Is that the spacing from the center of horn to center of horn?

Let's think about tweeters   Lets say 10Khz is your top freq .  That is 1.3"  Is that the center to center of the drivers?

As you go up it gets harder and the spacing has to be smaller.  It is NOT spacing between edge to edge-but rather center to center.

Also the 1/4 wavelength is a "guideline" not a hard and fast rule that it either works or doesn't on either side of that.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: George Dougherty on February 27, 2014, 09:13:57 AM
So it looks like you are suggesting adding a couple of cabinets rather than looking into different speakers?

I am just curious how much more output I will get from the woofers adding two more boxes and if it will be worth it.  Plus, I wonder since it would start to become a short line array if I will like the sound.  I can't recall ever hearing or mixing on any line array where I am like wow this is great.  Point source is where it's at.

Well, a cheap and easy test would be to stack them and see how it affects the sound.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 27, 2014, 06:43:02 PM
Well, a cheap and easy test would be to stack them and see how it affects the sound.
And don't just listen in one area-move around-side to side-front to back.

Pink noise will help to revel the problems easier than music.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: George Dougherty on February 27, 2014, 09:02:53 PM
And don't just listen in one area-move around-side to side-front to back.

Pink noise will help to revel the problems easier than music.
+1

I found the wider dispersion of the melded tweeter arrays left a high-mid gap when you got off axis on my OT12's since they don't cut in till up about 2k.  Switched to compression drivers and got much better results. Be interested to know how the DR 250 integrates off-axis.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 03, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
Well, a cheap and easy test would be to stack them and see how it affects the sound.

True.  I could just stack them outside somewhere and do a mix from a live recording.  That will be a good way to decide.  If I don't like it, I can look at other options...

Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 04, 2014, 04:07:30 PM
And don't just listen in one area-move around-side to side-front to back.

Pink noise will help to revel the problems easier than music.

Ivan, how much amplifier power would you recommend to get the most out of an SM80? I would typically go with program power for live sound, but what do you recommend?
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Brad Weber on March 04, 2014, 05:22:54 PM
Hey guys! I do a lot of church outreach and typically run around 90dBA/105dBC. I like mixing with a lot of punchy low end and sufficient warmth. There are times when I need a little more than that though. So, an extra 5dB is nice there.
Your first post mentioned wanting to achieve sustained levels of 95dB at 60' but based on the above it seems that you may actually be wanting to support average levels of around 110dB at the listeners and if that's at 60' then that's equivalent to 135dB at 1m.  Add in 5-10dB for peaks and that seems to mean that you are looking for a maximum output levels of around 140-145dB at 1m.  Is that an accurate summary of your goals?
 
The SM80 is a nice box but 140-145dB is 6-11dB above it's rated maximum output and thus it seems that something like the SH-96HO might be more appropriate if you really want that kind of output level. 
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 04, 2014, 06:32:32 PM
Your first post mentioned wanting to achieve sustained levels of 95dB at 60' but based on the above it seems that you may actually be wanting to support average levels of around 110dB at the listeners and if that's at 60' then that's equivalent to 135dB at 1m.  Add in 5-10dB for peaks and that seems to mean that you are looking for a maximum output levels of around 140-145dB at 1m.  Is that an accurate summary of your goals?
 
The SM80 is a nice box but 140-145dB is 6-11dB above it's rated maximum output and thus it seems that something like the SH-96HO might be more appropriate if you really want that kind of output level.

That would be nice if I could afford it. It looks like a couple SM80s with lots of sub support would do what I need considering 10dB peaks.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 05, 2014, 02:44:00 AM
That would be nice if I could afford it. It looks like a couple SM80s with lots of sub support would do what I need considering 10dB peaks.

Actually I forgot about the sm100f. That may fit my needs a little better with the added low frequency response. Same output levels and same price if I remember right on the price.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Brad Weber on March 05, 2014, 09:17:27 AM
That would be nice if I could afford it. It looks like a couple SM80s with lots of sub support would do what I need considering 10dB peaks.
Actually I forgot about the sm100f. That may fit my needs a little better with the added low frequency response. Same output levels and same price if I remember right on the price.
If  you're thinking that two side-by-side SM80 or SM100F covering the same area would sum together to yield +6dB then you need to go back and read Ivan's earlier comments regarding 1/4 wavelength dimensions.  I believe the SM100F is 20.5" wide and the SM80 24" wide, which means two of them side-by-side would start to sum coherently only below 165Hz and 141Hz respectively.  Above those frequencies the two could provide maybe a 3dB overall increase in level while also resulting in some combfiltering.  Other than for subwoofers, to get greater output you're almost always better off with one box with more output than with multiple boxes.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 06, 2014, 07:21:55 AM
Actually I forgot about the sm100f. That may fit my needs a little better with the added low frequency response. Same output levels and same price if I remember right on the price.
THE SM80 will get louder than the SM100F.  The SM100F has a wider coverage and goes lower.

If you are using subs-I doubt you will need the extra bass response of the 100F.

Yes the Sm80 "appears" to roll off hinda high.  HOWEVER it is a sealed box-so the rolloff is half as steep as a ported box.

Also when you consider that the ACOUSTIC crossover is often much higher than the electrical-the sub and the SM80 work just fine together.

The things I would let govern the choice between them are: Price-output capability-coverage pattern needed and possibly physical size

We will be glad to do a free 3D model of your room to check the coverage if you want with both models.

Contact [email protected] for this.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 10, 2014, 03:29:21 PM
THE SM80 will get louder than the SM100F.  The SM100F has a wider coverage and goes lower.

If you are using subs-I doubt you will need the extra bass response of the 100F.

Yes the Sm80 "appears" to roll off hinda high.  HOWEVER it is a sealed box-so the rolloff is half as steep as a ported box.

Also when you consider that the ACOUSTIC crossover is often much higher than the electrical-the sub and the SM80 work just fine together.

The things I would let govern the choice between them are: Price-output capability-coverage pattern needed and possibly physical size

We will be glad to do a free 3D model of your room to check the coverage if you want with both models.

Contact [email protected] for this.

Ivan,

Thanks so much for the help.  I have really been researching the heck out of my options.  It looks like the best option is for me to go with the two SM80 cabinets for our setup.  Once I sell some equipment, I will be checking out some SM80 demos and purchasing.  I have a good friend that works with a large company near me that I have been talking to about the SM80s.  He said that if he doesn't "have" to put certain speakers in a venue based on a customer's request, he always recommends Danley.  Pretty cool.  When I talk to Chad or hear from you, or hear from my friend, you all say the same thing.  Cool to have continuity here.

And thanks everyone!  Hopefully I will be going through with this upgrade in a couple months time.  The only issue it raises for the future is: how will I go about my subwoofer upgrade? haha...
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 10, 2014, 07:53:36 PM
Ivan,

Thanks so much for the help.  I have really been researching the heck out of my options.  It looks like the best option is for me to go with the two SM80 cabinets for our setup.  Once I sell some equipment, I will be checking out some SM80 demos and purchasing.  I have a good friend that works with a large company near me that I have been talking to about the SM80s.  He said that if he doesn't "have" to put certain speakers in a venue based on a customer's request, he always recommends Danley.  Pretty cool.  When I talk to Chad or hear from you, or hear from my friend, you all say the same thing.  Cool to have continuity here.

And thanks everyone!  Hopefully I will be going through with this upgrade in a couple months time.  The only issue it raises for the future is: how will I go about my subwoofer upgrade? haha...
Keep us informed
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 13, 2014, 01:19:53 PM
Keep us informed

Will a bridged XTI1000 per SM80 set me up well with these?  I already have one XTI1000 and two XTI2000's.  I was looking into getting another XTI1000 to have one per side.  I was trying to stick with the XTI's because I have 3 already.  They were the best thing for me a few years ago when they came out.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 13, 2014, 09:04:17 PM
Will a bridged XTI1000 per SM80 set me up well with these?  I already have one XTI1000 and two XTI2000's.  I was looking into getting another XTI1000 to have one per side.  I was trying to stick with the XTI's because I have 3 already.  They were the best thing for me a few years ago when they came out.
That would be a decent sized amp to use.

It is also not a bad idea to use all the same amps-if you need to swap around it is easier.

It also makes the racks look nicer-balanced.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 14, 2014, 09:58:57 PM
That would be a decent sized amp to use.

It is also not a bad idea to use all the same amps-if you need to swap around it is easier.

It also makes the racks look nicer-balanced.

If decent, then would getting another XTI2002 be better and have 2 XTI 2002 amps for them? The reply sounded as if it might be better to have a bit more amp. Thanks!
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 15, 2014, 08:45:21 AM
If decent, then would getting another XTI2002 be better and have 2 XTI 2002 amps for them? The reply sounded as if it might be better to have a bit more amp. Thanks!
This is where it gets a bit "interesting".

The Sm80 is not a 8 ohm cabinet.  That is simply the nearest "standard" number.

It is more like a 10-12 ohm cabinet.  The higher impedance is due to the crossover and the horn loaded applied to the driver.

So the actual wattage figures published are true-they are a bit low for what would be a 10-12 ohm cabinet.  We are going to change that soon.

So if looking for an amp that can produce that power into an 8 ohm load-it would have to be more powerful to produce the same wattage into the actual higher impedance.

ie: more voltage swing.

We do events all the time with amps that are in the 1400-1500 watt range @ 8 ohms and run them hard and are fine.

So having a little bit of extra is not a bad idea.

Is the price worth a couple of dB extra? that is up to you.

I hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on March 15, 2014, 11:10:08 AM
This is where it gets a bit "interesting".

The Sm80 is not a 8 ohm cabinet.  That is simply the nearest "standard" number.

It is more like a 10-12 ohm cabinet.  The higher impedance is due to the crossover and the horn loaded applied to the driver.

So the actual wattage figures published are true-they are a bit low for what would be a 10-12 ohm cabinet.  We are going to change that soon.

So if looking for an amp that can produce that power into an 8 ohm load-it would have to be more powerful to produce the same wattage into the actual higher impedance.

ie: more voltage swing.

We do events all the time with amps that are in the 1400-1500 watt range @ 8 ohms and run them hard and are fine.

So having a little bit of extra is not a bad idea.

Is the price worth a couple of dB extra? that is up to you.

I hope this makes sense.

Definitely makes sense.  Thanks for the advice!
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on April 25, 2014, 05:03:23 PM
Definitely makes sense.  Thanks for the advice!

I took the plunge and bought two Danley SM80 speakers.  I am bridging one XTI1000 per speaker.  I have tested them out a little, but I will put them to the real test this weekend.  I have a full band with a large set of songs outdoors.  I can't really voice much about them yet until I mix on them in the same setting (outdoors) and same band as with my other speakers. 

However, I did pull up a recording at our church from our Venue and did a quick mix.  We had drums, bass, 2 keys, 2 elec guit, 4 vocs.  I am so surprised at the warmth these speakers have.  Small cabinets typically end up with the tweeter outrunning the woofer in my experience.  Not so here.  It was full and clean.  It lacked harmonic distortion I am used to hearing.  I brought it up to a light clip on the XTI1000's and the speakers were totally happy.  They are getting 1000RMS a piece.  Ivan is right when he said they can handle a 1600 watt amp at 8 ohms.  1000W was easy for them with a band.  Upon first use, I have to say they sound like an in between category between a rear loaded full horn Danley and a traditional speaker.  The rear loaded Danley boxes I have heard a slightly cleaner.  For how small these things are though - I haven't heard anything better yet I don't think.  Very nice dynamic box and great separation.  My mix was around low 100's dBC at 60ft maybe a little more.  I am excited to mix outside on them this Sunday.  I will shoot out another update. 

Thanks to Danley for getting them here for Easter!  My company did a fantastic Easter sunrise service of about 700 people with the new speakers.

Take Care
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on April 28, 2014, 10:57:46 AM
I just ran an outdoor set with 18 songs over a large area. I was about 60 feet away and the speakers were about 60 or so feet apart as well. Initially setting the EQ was easy. I believe I took out a little from the 400 to 900 area, a 2k dip, and a 7k dip. I did a small high shelf from 10k to 20k because of the distance we were throwing (probably 150+ feet) to compensate for the loss I heard. I am so used to tweaking even during sound check because most speakers change in how they sound as output increases. Not so here. I never had to touch the EQ after the band was up. The drums sounded outstanding. It was as if the kit was just louder. Thats how natural they sound. Its like wow I am tweaking to mix not to get it to sound good because of the speakers. Electric and  bass guitars sounded just like their amps (bass was direct). All the warmth and clarity preserved. The vocals were defined. After only needing minor EQ tweaks for the band and a little vocal compression, I was impressed. I haven't ran a system in my 8 years of pro audio that was that easy to get a great mix on. Coverage was even and didn't spill over. I could hear way up in the 15k range well which I am not used to hearing. That 10k to 20k area just does it for me because it makes vocals and cymbals sound REAL.  I had people that come to our church services all the time tell me at the event that it sounds way better.  So I am using inexpensive O1V, XTI amps, and it is sounding  better than a much larger rig and getting just as loud. I ran out of output on subs and behold I was at -10dB on my speakers.  What impressed me most were these speaker's ability to reproduce the warmth area with authority. The woofer was keeping up with the tweeter. I could feel the snare in the ground and on a low song the vocals, too.  All the way to the 110Hz crossover is solid midbass.  I can't wait to mix on the SH96's going in for the school where we have church. Should be awesome! 

PS - I am using Heil PR35 and Audix VX5 vocal mics as well as CAD M179 on guitar.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on May 12, 2014, 08:13:59 PM
I just wanted to throw another reply up since I have extensively tested the SM80's now with a few gig in a few venues and outside.  The SM80's are the first portable speakers I have ever been completely happy with.  They are everything I would think anyone would want in a portable rig.  They need a small amount of EQ to my taste, but they were easy to dial in. 

After that, very transparent, dynamic, and free of that "warm" or "harsh" harmonic distortion.  There was a separation of sources that was amazing and it takes on average 1/4 of the time for me to get a great mix on these than really any other system I mix on right now (which is quite a few).  I was lightly clipping my subs and I wondered; how hard are my speakers working?  They were around -10 or -12dB on the amp.  I only had an "A" weighted meter with me, but we were running in the mid 90's from 60ft away at that point.  I was most impressed by the SM80's ability to reproduce mid-bass that I could feel in the ground.  I am very impressed and have never had so many complements on our sound system.

Thanks for the incite in helping me.  I am confident in this rig.  I will be considering subwoofers next!
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 12, 2014, 08:38:34 PM
I just wanted to throw another reply up since I have extensively tested the SM80's now with a few gig in a few venues and outside.  The SM80's are the first portable speakers I have ever been completely happy with.  They are everything I would think anyone would want in a portable rig.  They need a small amount of EQ to my taste, but they were easy to dial in. 

After that, very transparent, dynamic, and free of that "warm" or "harsh" harmonic distortion.  There was a separation of sources that was amazing and it takes on average 1/4 of the time for me to get a great mix on these than really any other system I mix on right now (which is quite a few).  I was lightly clipping my subs and I wondered; how hard are my speakers working?  They were around -10 or -12dB on the amp.  I only had an "A" weighted meter with me, but we were running in the mid 90's from 60ft away at that point.  I was most impressed by the SM80's ability to reproduce mid-bass that I could feel in the ground.  I am very impressed and have never had so many complements on our sound system.

Thanks for the incite in helping me.  I am confident in this rig.  I will be considering subwoofers next!
It takes a good bit of subage to keep up with them.  Depending on music styles-it could take 4 or more 2x18" front loaded subs for each Sm80
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on May 14, 2014, 08:52:22 AM
It takes a good bit of subage to keep up with them.  Depending on music styles-it could take 4 or more 2x18" front loaded subs for each Sm80

I believe it. I could more than double my sub array for the SM80's! Crazy amounts of output for such a small package. 134dB sound system that can fit in my back seat...lol...well not the subs though.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: kendallhadden on May 15, 2014, 01:13:37 PM
Thanks for an update.  I'm hoping to have some SM80s soon.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: David Hoover on May 16, 2014, 11:27:44 AM
Thanks for an update.  I'm hoping to have some SM80s soon.

Just for a fun FYI, I have tested the SM80's in one of our rooms accompanied by 12 Turbosound TSW118 subs powered by labs.  I think that if the SM80'S had the power they need, they would keep up with them. Two per side would probably start to outrun them.  Thats with 6 subs ground stacked per side.  We were sustaining 96dBA (smarrt) in the 2500 seat auditorium with two SM80's and the two XTI1002 amps accompanied by the subs.
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Reggie Kendrick on May 27, 2014, 02:46:00 PM
I'm one of those guys with a pair of EV QRX212/75's that are debating on making the SM80 plunge.  My question would be, how are SM80's with playback music; MP3's with genres like:  EDM, Reggae, Rap, R&B, Top40, etc?  Would they require much massaging of the EQ around 100Hz to the provide kick I'm use to with the QRX's?   I usually filter my 4 TH-118's at 80 or 85Hz and start my tops at ~100Hz.

I'd like to take my QRX and ZXA5's up to Danley and do an A/B comparison as it's only about and hour away. 
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 27, 2014, 03:51:10 PM
Just for a fun FYI, I have tested the SM80's in one of our rooms accompanied by 12 Turbosound TSW118 subs powered by labs.  I think that if the SM80'S had the power they need, they would keep up with them. Two per side would probably start to outrun them.

How much louder do you think 2 SM80s per side will be than 1? How much horizontal coverage do you actually need?

Mac
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 27, 2014, 07:31:22 PM
How much louder do you think 2 SM80s per side will be than 1? How much horizontal coverage do you actually need?

Mac
One of the things that many people miss is that when they use arrayable speakers, the on axis SPL only gets louder in the lower freq (below where the horn has pattern control).

The on axis level (at least in the pattern control area of the horn) will not really go up.

Of course if the horn is small-then you will get more SPL-ALONG WITH more interference and lower sound quality.

There is no free lunch.

In the "perfect world", each person will only be hearing ONE source (at least for mids/highs), but that is not always the case-no matter what some people will tell you--------------------
Title: Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
Post by: Cailen Waddell on May 27, 2014, 10:33:24 PM

One of the things that many people miss is that when they use arrayable speakers, the on axis SPL only gets louder in the lower freq (below where the horn has pattern control).

The on axis level (at least in the pattern control area of the horn) will not really go up.

Of course if the horn is small-then you will get more SPL-ALONG WITH more interference and lower sound quality.

There is no free lunch.

In the "perfect world", each person will only be hearing ONE source (at least for mids/highs), but that is not always the case-no matter what some people will tell you--------------------

I remember when I learned that.   I had a pair of 'reputable' speakers on each side of a stage and the sound was unbalanced.  A much wiser sound guy explained to me what was happening.


Understanding that there would need to be different processing/eq for a pair of cabinets vs an individual per side, was a big step in understanding the physics of how speakers work.  A really important lesson, one best learned (at least for me) by trying and listening and hearing the difference.


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