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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: John L Nobile on January 02, 2016, 01:07:10 pm

Title: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: John L Nobile on January 02, 2016, 01:07:10 pm
I'm looking to add a little more eye candy into our lighting rig. Thinking of a laser effect. It needs to be powerful enough to cut through 70 1k conventionals and 36 LED movers (24 wash and 12 spots).
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: John Fruits on January 02, 2016, 03:27:45 pm
Not a laser but a scanner but you might take a look at the Elation Sniper 2r.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYD2-3Ru2c0
As far a real lasers, take a look at X-Laser.
http://x-laser.us/
Do be aware of the paper work required for lasers. 
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: John L Nobile on January 02, 2016, 04:03:39 pm
The Sniper looks like a very cool fixture. I'm going to look into that. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Justin Waters on January 04, 2016, 05:55:51 pm
We have an X-Laser X beam 5000.  Super bright, full color, seems to be built well. 
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: James Feenstra on January 05, 2016, 01:09:59 pm
Hey John, you'll need some pretty big lasers to blow through what's up in your rig, I'd guess something at least 3w

Give me a shout and I'll see what I can do about getting you a demo of the X-Laser stuff
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Michael Gorecki on January 04, 2017, 05:35:18 pm
Hey guys, I've got an event coming up and the only lighting request was "lasers". The room that we're going to already has 8 ADJ beams and 8 ADJ spots. Not sure on the models but they look to be the size of the Chauvet intimidators. They've got a dozen  LED par cans as well. Not a ton of light but enough for the space. I'm in SoCal and I have a buddy that is the XLaser rep but there aren't any demos in our area I guess. So I've been thinking about buying a laser.
My main concern is how wide the beam angle will be. I can drive down and check out the X Laser HPX tour but I've only got an HPX budget. So let me know if there's something else that has come out in the last year or if ou have any experience with these lights. The main effect they want is the liquid sky.


Thanks in advance.
Mike


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Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Jeff Lelko on January 04, 2017, 07:25:35 pm
While I'll be the first to admit that I've only seen the Sniper 2R in a demo environment, I personally feel that it doesn't quite cut it as a true laser emulator.  The 5R-powered Sniper Pro might do a better job, but for the price I'd look to a true laser.  While both units produce a neat effect, it's just that - an effect light - useful if you like the look and don't want to mess with the variance and outdoor use issues, but if you want the real deal, there's still no alternative that I'm aware that can do the true laser effects besides an actual laser.  X-Laser would be the first place I'd start if that's what you decide on doing.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Don T. Williams on January 04, 2017, 07:26:36 pm
A word of warning.  Lazers over a certain wattage require a FDA (yes the Food and Drug Administration) license.  This is because they can be dangerous to your eye sight and cause lasting damage!

The license is not hard to get, and X laser gets you through it easily, but it takes some time.  Anyone can buy lasers on ebay that need the license with getting it, but there are real reasons why you should not!  Get the knowledge and get the license.

The Sniper will produce the "liquid sky" effect without being a laser or needing license.
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: duane massey on January 05, 2017, 02:32:13 am
Make CERTAIN you know the law! The beam from any laser over 495mw cannot be displayed within 3m (roughly 10') of a person. I cannot begin to tell you how many large lasers I have seen installed in clubs and used by mobile DJ's and bands that are projected directly into the audience.
The Sniper 2R can look great IF you present it correctly: plenty of haze and use a dim setting with complementary colors. Much like the old Emulators you have to use common sense when going for a "laser-like" effect.
Google "entertainment laser safety regulations".
Also, I have complained for a long, long time on the blatant marketing tactics by the laser manufacturers. Virtually every video you see shows at least part of the time the laser shining directly into the camera to show the "tunnel" effect. You can't do this on the real world, yet clients expect to see this very effect.
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: James Feenstra on January 05, 2017, 02:54:12 am
A word of warning.  Lazers over a certain wattage require a FDA (yes the Food and Drug Administration) license.  This is because they can be dangerous to your eye sight and cause lasting damage!
Not in Canada as far as I can tell....we don't have anything remotely close to what the US has (a variance for various laser classes). Only things I can find are regarding outdoor displays and permits in relation to airplanes/airports.

That being said, yes, lasers can be very dangerous and require specific training to operate safely....I'd suggest consulting a pro laser company (there are many) if you're looking to do a proper laser display
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 05, 2017, 09:54:25 am
Virtually every video you see shows at least part of the time the laser shining directly into the camera to show the "tunnel" effect.
FWIW, this is a great way to destroy your camera sensor.  There are a lot of photography threads where people wonder why they have a bunch of stuck pixels after shooting an event with lasers.  Even DJ-level lasers can cause this kind of damage.
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Jeff Lelko on January 05, 2017, 09:09:22 pm
The beam from any laser over 495mw cannot be displayed within 3m (roughly 10') of a person.

Actually, I believe any laser over 5mW needs to play by the high power laser rules (I think you meant to say 4.95mW), which is the 3m vertical clearance above and 2.5m laterally from any occupied floor or platform, barring a few Class 3R exceptions.  There's also a lot more to the high power laser safety requirements such as keyed lockouts, kill switches, etc.  But yes, I agree completely that ebay lasers are never a safe idea (and usually illegal in the United States) and that pointing lasers at an audience is only asking for a law suit unless you have the training/experience/equipment to do this safely...and of course none of the local bars, DJs, and bands doing this have said qualifications.  I agree that hiring or at least consulting with a professional company is the best way to go about this if you want to use a laser beyond what ADJ and Chauvet offer.  Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: duane massey on January 06, 2017, 12:51:40 pm
Thanks, Jeff. A missed period (or decimal point) can make a difference in many ways....
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Dave Batistig on January 09, 2017, 08:38:42 am
Thanks, Jeff. A missed period (or decimal point) can make a difference in many ways....

I have been considering the Pangolin ClubMax 1800. guaranteed output of 1800mW. Not a cheap date for sure, and I am not convinced it will bring the level of laser show I would like to add to our show. Rental is an option, albeit a very pricey option, but may be worthwhile to test out different units and see what works best in the venues your playing in.
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Jeff Lelko on January 09, 2017, 06:28:43 pm
I have been considering the Pangolin ClubMax 1800. guaranteed output of 1800mW. Not a cheap date for sure, and I am not convinced it will bring the level of laser show I would like to add to our show. Rental is an option, albeit a very pricey option, but may be worthwhile to test out different units and see what works best in the venues your playing in.

If it were me I'd pass on that unit (assuming we're talking about the same product here).  The website and product description seem to be more in line with an ebay laser and not a proper, professional unit.  Given the price range you're shopping in, I'd start with X-Laser's offerings.  You know at least with them that you'll get what you paid for and shouldn't have issues with your variance.  While there are certainly more builders out there (and some people do choose to build their own units), unless you really know lasers, the laws that govern their use in public, and the safety practices for working with such devices, I wouldn't even take the chance.  X-Laser also seems to offer rentals, so many give that a try to see what level of unit you need to be shopping for? 
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Jeff Lelko on January 09, 2017, 08:14:06 pm
(assuming we're talking about the same product here)

Nevermind - we're not.  I just got suspicious when the only shopping result takes me straight to ebay!  "Buy Now Laser suitable for 1800 people!!!"  Just buy from a dealer and don't try importing anything and you should be fine from that point of view.  The variance and safety deal still applies though!
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Dave Batistig on January 11, 2017, 01:16:43 pm
Nevermind - we're not.  I just got suspicious when the only shopping result takes me straight to ebay!  "Buy Now Laser suitable for 1800 people!!!"  Just buy from a dealer and don't try importing anything and you should be fine from that point of view.  The variance and safety deal still applies though!

This is the unit I have been considering:

http://lasershowprojector.com/shop/clubmax-1800/

I'll look at X Laser t before I ccommit to anything.

Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Jeff Lelko on January 11, 2017, 04:00:31 pm
Okay, so that's a KVANT unit then.  I wasn't aware that Pangolin was acting as a distributor for them (or maybe owns them?).  Despite Pangolin's USA office being less than an hour from where I live, I've never dropped in for a demo and it's been a few years since I've made it to LDI to see the latest and greatest, and who owns who these days.  To my understanding, KVANT is a UK company that sells worldwide (hence my ebay confusion further up).  I'd imagine you can't go wrong if you buy through Pangolin directly or via one of their USA dealers, but honestly I can't tell you for sure.  It's been a few years since I've last used high power lasers and I wasn't the owner of what I used.  If you're serious about getting into the high power laser game I'd suggest reaching out to a dedicated community of laser specialists (Photonlexicon, etc.).  Between the cost, safety, and legal concerns this isn't something to get wrong! 

That said, be sure to see an in-person demo of any laser you'd like to buy.  Not all lasers use the same wavelength diodes nor do they all mix colors evenly, so you'll want to be sure you're happy with the palette you'll have available to you with any given model.  Given the cost of these units, a $200 plane ticket is well worth the money to be sure you buy the right thing!  Good luck!   
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Lance Hallmark on January 12, 2017, 05:43:07 pm
Kvant makes quality lasers with all of the required safety features. I believe they have some sort of partnership with Pangolin.
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Michael Gorecki on January 12, 2017, 06:47:28 pm
I just spoke with a guy from a production company and they only use Kvant lasers. He recommended the Clubmax6000 for the event I'm doing, simply because that's the smallest laser they have near my location. (SoCal)

Lance I've watched some videos and read some spec sheets and noticed the name Pangolin, it looks like they manufacture some parts and accessories. 


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Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Lance Hallmark on January 17, 2017, 04:21:52 pm
I just spoke with a guy from a production company and they only use Kvant lasers. He recommended the Clubmax6000 for the event I'm doing, simply because that's the smallest laser they have near my location. (SoCal)

Lance I've watched some videos and read some spec sheets and noticed the name Pangolin, it looks like they manufacture some parts and accessories. 


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Pangolin originally known for their laser software - Quickshow, Beyond & Laser Show Designer 2000, now they also sell KVant lasers and other accessories. I highly recommend their software, really brings a laser to another level.
Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Michael Gorecki on January 18, 2017, 10:48:15 pm
I ended up calling a company and hiring a laser tech with a variance, control software and renting two Clubmax 6000. The event is on the 29th. I'll post pictures after the event.


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Title: Re: Suggestions for laser or laser effects fixtures
Post by: Michael Gorecki on January 30, 2017, 10:32:15 pm
Hey guys, as promised here are a few pictures and videos from the event last night. The lasers preformed better than I could've imagined. The operator knew his way around the program and was familiar with the genre of music. This in my opinion is even more important than having the correct fixture.

But anyways, these are the shots I grabbed in my spare time, enjoy let me know if you have any questions.

And just for confirmation these are Kvant Clubmax 6000's

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/5a40ecffd04105b0cd0c9713561cb173.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/0cc711446a57d4e4b6ced90b60be347b.jpg)https://vimeo.com/201787954 (https://vimeo.com/201787954)https://vimeo.com/201788065 (https://vimeo.com/201788065) https://vimeo.com/201788291 (https://vimeo.com/201788291)


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