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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: John L Nobile on May 02, 2018, 12:43:07 PM
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We had a dance competition using our lights last week and 5 bulbs on the front pipe burnt out during the weekend. There are 20 lights there but I'm sure there were some dark spots. Our inhouse AV company didn't change them and we had to refund some of the rental.
So.. management wants me to look into how to make this not happen again. My suggestion was to replace the Lekos with an Led Ellipsoidal. I'd love something that can move and focus remotely as well. I told them it would run us at least 20k CDN but I'm probably on the low side for pro, bright cans.
Any suggestions??
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We had a dance competition using our lights last week and 5 bulbs on the front pipe burnt out during the weekend. There are 20 lights there but I'm sure there were some dark spots. Our inhouse AV company didn't change them and we had to refund some of the rental.
So.. management wants me to look into how to make this not happen again. My suggestion was to replace the Lekos with an Led Ellipsoidal. I'd love something that can move and focus remotely as well. I told them it would run us at least 20k CDN but I'm probably on the low side for pro, bright cans.
Any suggestions??
a 1K FEL bulb implies a non-Source Four leko, which is probably more in the brightness range of a 575-750w S4 leko, depending on whether you use long-life bulbs or short-life bulbs.
Here is a shootout I did with the Chauvet Ovation ED-190WW vs a Source Four 575w 300 hour (equivalent in brightness to the 750w 2000 hour)
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/disappointed-in-s4-edlt.43036/page-2#post-376276
Does the replacement need to be a leko or would a wash mover be a choice?
I have also done informal testing of the above Source Four 575w 300 hours against the Chauvet Rogue R2 wash fixtures. The Chauvet Rogue R2 wash is very similar in output to the S4 575, and the Chauvet Rogue R3 wash or the Maverick wash fixtures will blow away a Source Four 750 short-life. That gets you your automated move, zoom, and focus, but not shuttering.
If you need all the above, Chauvet and Varilite both have new movers with shutters, but you're going to be $5KUSD+ per light.
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a 1K FEL bulb implies a non-Source Four leko, which is probably more in the brightness range of a 575-750w S4 leko, depending on whether you use long-life bulbs or short-life bulbs.
Here is a shootout I did with the Chauvet Ovation ED-190WW vs a Source Four 575w 300 hour (equivalent in brightness to the 750w 2000 hour)
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/disappointed-in-s4-edlt.43036/page-2#post-376276
Does the replacement need to be a leko or would a wash mover be a choice?
I have also done informal testing of the above Source Four 575w 300 hours against the Chauvet Rogue R2 wash fixtures. The Chauvet Rogue R2 wash is very similar in output to the S4 575, and the Chauvet Rogue R3 wash or the Maverick wash fixtures will blow away a Source Four 750 short-life. That gets you your automated move, zoom, and focus, but not shuttering.
If you need all the above, Chauvet and Varilite both have new movers with shutters, but you're going to be $5KUSD+ per light.
I'm using 30 year old Strand Lekos. I also have a lot 30 year old Pars and Fresnel cans controlled by a CD80 dimmer. It's an old system but still functional and I'm always impressed by how reliable it's been.
I only do lighting cause I'm the only one here that remotely has a clue and I've picked up enough over the years to realize how much more I have to learn.
I was thinking of LED zoom Pars as the most cost effective solution. I'm not sure if I can get them tight enough to do a 5 zone wash or keep the wash off the back while still lighting people downstage. Or they may be too narrow. Shutters on Lekos are very flexible which was why I've been looking at LED Ellipsoidals. The higher output ones are not cheap. I'm also not sure about the how people would look under LED lights since my norm is tungsten bulbs and gel.
And it's one thing to light up a rock band. Usually 4 or 5 people that mostly stand out front and don't move. But we're getting a lot of dance competitions which need a 40' x 32' area brightly and evenly lit.
But I think I'll need to move away from tungsten bulbs on my front lighting. We had one pop, loudly, and some debris on the people sitting under the pipe. No one was hurt but management is probably thinking about liability. That and having to refund some rental for blown bulbs.
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I'm using 30 year old Strand Lekos. I also have a lot 30 year old Pars and Fresnel cans controlled by a CD80 dimmer. It's an old system but still functional and I'm always impressed by how reliable it's been.
I only do lighting cause I'm the only one here that remotely has a clue and I've picked up enough over the years to realize how much more I have to learn.
I was thinking of LED zoom Pars as the most cost effective solution. I'm not sure if I can get them tight enough to do a 5 zone wash or keep the wash off the back while still lighting people downstage. Or they may be too narrow. Shutters on Lekos are very flexible which was why I've been looking at LED Ellipsoidals. The higher output ones are not cheap. I'm also not sure about the how people would look under LED lights since my norm is tungsten bulbs and gel.
And it's one thing to light up a rock band. Usually 4 or 5 people that mostly stand out front and don't move. But we're getting a lot of dance competitions which need a 40' x 32' area brightly and evenly lit.
But I think I'll need to move away from tungsten bulbs on my front lighting. We had one pop, loudly, and some debris on the people sitting under the pipe. No one was hurt but management is probably thinking about liability. That and having to refund some rental for blown bulbs.
I got rid of the last of my Strand Century lekos last year. Good riddance!
You may find that the price difference between a zoomable LED par and something like the Rogue R2 wash is pretty minimal. Not sure if you have catwalk access or not, but being able to move from the desk rather than the lift is no small benefit.
You will need to get demos of the various choices to determine what you really need. If you need lekos, then you need lekos. If you need a specific color gamut, then you need to get whatever does that. For my purposes - live music and corporate-style events where I'm either looking for 3000K warm white or obvious color, I've been very happy with the Rogue R2 washes as front light. They can be tuned to match the rest of my source four rig just fine. They don't red-shift like conventional bulbs do, though (there are led lekos that do) if that is important to you.
The other way you could go is to proactively replace lamps before they go. With 2000 hour bulbs you could estimate your usage - i.e. 500 hours/year, and replace them all after the third year, at around 1500 hours used. This will be cheaper than new fixtures, and will significantly reduce the odds of losing a bunch of lamps at the same time. The downside is if you don't follow your schedule, they will all reach end of life at the same time, increasing the odds of multiple failures in a short period, which seems to be what you experienced.
The other factor to consider is fixture lifespan. You've gotten 30 years out of your Strands and your CD80s. You're not going to get 30 years out of any current LED technology, so be realistic about how long your capital will last - probably more like 7-10 years.
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Ok one thing I have seen often is for the dance they like two or three sets of vertical lights usually 5 feet, legs, mids, chest, and head. If you see So you think you can dance they have this on the sides of the stage and shooting across the stage from the left and right.
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I got rid of the last of my Strand Century lekos last year. Good riddance!
You may find that the price difference between a zoomable LED par and something like the Rogue R2 wash is pretty minimal. Not sure if you have catwalk access or not, but being able to move from the desk rather than the lift is no small benefit.
You will need to get demos of the various choices to determine what you really need. If you need lekos, then you need lekos. If you need a specific color gamut, then you need to get whatever does that. For my purposes - live music and corporate-style events where I'm either looking for 3000K warm white or obvious color, I've been very happy with the Rogue R2 washes as front light. They can be tuned to match the rest of my source four rig just fine. They don't red-shift like conventional bulbs do, though (there are led lekos that do) if that is important to you.
The other way you could go is to proactively replace lamps before they go. With 2000 hour bulbs you could estimate your usage - i.e. 500 hours/year, and replace them all after the third year, at around 1500 hours used. This will be cheaper than new fixtures, and will significantly reduce the odds of losing a bunch of lamps at the same time. The downside is if you don't follow your schedule, they will all reach end of life at the same time, increasing the odds of multiple failures in a short period, which seems to be what you experienced.
The other factor to consider is fixture lifespan. You've gotten 30 years out of your Strands and your CD80s. You're not going to get 30 years out of any current LED technology, so be realistic about how long your capital will last - probably more like 7-10 years.
What did you replace your Strand Leko's with?
I'm only seeing FEL's with a 300 hour life. But they're cheap enough that I could change them before dance comp season. Lights don't get used much anymore. But I have seen bulbs burn out right after changing. There's no guarantees.
The r2's look great but they're probably overkill for front lights. If I got them, I'd probably keep the Lekos and use the R2's for effect.
And yes, LED's have a short lifespan. My 4 year MH1's and 2's are looking dated already.
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What did you replace your Strand Leko's with?
I'm only seeing FEL's with a 300 hour life. But they're cheap enough that I could change them before dance comp season. Lights don't get used much anymore. But I have seen bulbs burn out right after changing. There's no guarantees.
The r2's look great but they're probably overkill for front lights. If I got them, I'd probably keep the Lekos and use the R2's for effect.
And yes, LED's have a short lifespan. My 4 year MH1's and 2's are looking dated already.
I replaced my Strands with ETC Source Four lekos and pars. I'm still using conventional lamps for white wash.
FELs may only come in a 300 hr version, but there are a lot of compatible lamps - GLC/GLA, FLK, etc of varying wattage and lamp life. I was using GLCs and FLKs in mine, which are 300 hour, but GLCs are 2000 hour. They will be dimmer than your FELs.
Going prices on used S4 lekos are $150/each or less, and the last batch of used S4 pars I bought were less than $50/each including a full set of lenses. That gets you into the HPL 750w 2000 hr lamp that will be pretty equivalent in brightness to your 1K FELs.
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I replaced my Strands with ETC Source Four lekos and pars. I'm still using conventional lamps for white wash.
FELs may only come in a 300 hr version, but there are a lot of compatible lamps - GLC/GLA, FLK, etc of varying wattage and lamp life. I was using GLCs and FLKs in mine, which are 300 hour, but GLCs are 2000 hour. They will be dimmer than your FELs.
Going prices on used S4 lekos are $150/each or less, and the last batch of used S4 pars I bought were less than $50/each including a full set of lenses. That gets you into the HPL 750w 2000 hr lamp that will be pretty equivalent in brightness to your 1K FELs.
Going with Source 4's and 2000 hr HPL bulbs is probably the best option. But they're over US$500 new
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/435322-REG/ETC_7060A1010_0XA_Source_4_750W.html
I should probably call some production companies. If they do have any, they're probably gathering dust.
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The Chauvet Ovation Leko's are the real deal. Super bright, flat, even field of light that is easy to focus. I have the Warm White versions. They are very, very warm. Around 3000K.
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Going with Source 4's and 2000 hr HPL bulbs is probably the best option. But they're over US$500 new
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/435322-REG/ETC_7060A1010_0XA_Source_4_750W.html
I should probably call some production companies. If they do have any, they're probably gathering dust.
Actual street price of a new Source Four leko is more like $325 plus plug and bulb - easily under $400 out the door. You will not have trouble finding used fixtures in the $150-$175 range.
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The Chauvet Ovation Leko's are the real deal. Super bright, flat, even field of light that is easy to focus. I have the Warm White versions. They are very, very warm. Around 3000K.
This one looks perfect but way out of my budget.
https://www.chauvetprofessional.com/products/ovation-e-910fc/
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This one looks perfect but way out of my budget.
https://www.chauvetprofessional.com/products/ovation-e-910fc/
It's also not terribly bright, I'd rather go with R3 Wash or Maverick fixtures.
For front warm white wash - the Ovation E260 or F265 are great. Depends of you want hard edge beam or soft, and motorized zoom.
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This one looks perfect but way out of my budget.
https://www.chauvetprofessional.com/products/ovation-e-910fc/
The PAC I work at has these for FOH fixtures, fitted with ETC zoom lenses. They replaced 1000w zoom lekos, and have better intensity. They match the Chauvet Maverick wash lights we use for the overhead wash. YMMW.