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Title: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Tim Kerbavaz on May 27, 2011, 03:03:45 AM
I am writing a paper on the Shure SM58, and I'd like to have some real-world perspectives on the microphone and its impact on the live sound industry.  The Shure SM58 is the most widely used live vocal mic in the world, and I'm trying to get a sense of why that is, and how it is used by real world sound engineers.

Would you be willing to take a few minutes to answer some questions about your experiences with the SM58?

These responses will be used in a research paper for a Technocultural Studies class at UC Davis. If you do not want your response included in the paper, please indicate that in your post.

Thank you for your time.

Tim Kerbavaz

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Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?


Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?


Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?


When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?


Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?


If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?


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Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on May 27, 2011, 09:39:47 AM
I am writing a paper on the Shure SM58, and I'd like to have some real-world perspectives on the microphone and its impact on the live sound industry.  The Shure SM58 is the most widely used live vocal mic in the world, and I'm trying to get a sense of why that is, and how it is used by real world sound engineers.

Would you be willing to take a few minutes to answer some questions about your experiences with the SM58?

These responses will be used in a research paper for a Technocultural Studies class at UC Davis. If you do not want your response included in the paper, please indicate that in your post.

Thank you for your time.

Tim Kerbavaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?


Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?


Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?


When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?


Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?


If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?


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Hello. My name is Al and I haven't used an SM58 for 3 months.
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Steve Hurt on May 27, 2011, 10:31:15 AM
I tried to get away from 58's but they dragged me back!  Have 12 of them at the moment.


Reasons....
- There are something like 83 thousand bazillion of them out there and all but 3 of them still work
(The cable is bad on 2 of those 3 and Rodger Daltrey took care of the other one)
- Anyone who can EQ one or more mics correctly, can set the EQ on a 58 (even if they don't like 58's)
- No one looks at a 58 and says "What mic is that, is it any good?"
- Bono, and a bunch of other people you haven't heard of, use them.
- They don't cost much.
- They say Shure on them
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Jay Barracato on May 27, 2011, 10:33:49 AM
I am writing a paper on the Shure SM58, and I'd like to have some real-world perspectives on the microphone and its impact on the live sound industry.  The Shure SM58 is the most widely used live vocal mic in the world, and I'm trying to get a sense of why that is, and how it is used by real world sound engineers.

Would you be willing to take a few minutes to answer some questions about your experiences with the SM58?

These responses will be used in a research paper for a Technocultural Studies class at UC Davis. If you do not want your response included in the paper, please indicate that in your post.

Thank you for your time.

Tim Kerbavaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?


Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?


Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?


When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?


Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?


If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello. My name is Al and I haven't used an SM58 for 3 months.

Right now the only 58 I handle is the backup talkback mic packed in the drawer with my board. And that handling is usually to move it out of the way when looking for something else.
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 27, 2011, 10:38:56 AM
I am writing a paper on the Shure SM58, and I'd like to have some real-world perspectives on the microphone and its impact on the live sound industry.  The Shure SM58 is the most widely used live vocal mic in the world, and I'm trying to get a sense of why that is, and how it is used by real world sound engineers.

Would you be willing to take a few minutes to answer some questions about your experiences with the SM58?

These responses will be used in a research paper for a Technocultural Studies class at UC Davis. If you do not want your response included in the paper, please indicate that in your post.

Thank you for your time.

Tim Kerbavaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular?
It is an industry standard. In the early days it was one that worked, or users we able to make it work successfully (manage feedback, get a decent sound, etc). Over time it fed on it's own success where being a known entity, experienced users wanted to use it again rather than have to solve those problems over again with an unknown mic, and inexperienced users, wanted to try it because they saw it being used in performances.
Quote
Is its popularity merited?
Shure has done a good job managing that gift that keeps on giving. It is no accident it remains popular.

Just about every major mic manufacturer has made a run at it. Making a better mic, means you have to switch the users to a "different" mic. Trying to make it the same but cheaper, is difficult because Shure has not been so greedy with margins, to make them easy to under cut. Shure has been very aggressive about managing their manufacturing cost.  Finally Shure provides low cost repairs, to reduce opportunity for people to even consider using something different when they wear out. 
Quote

Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?
I never used one.
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Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?

n.a.
Quote
When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?

When other mics are available free.
Quote
Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career?
No.
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On live sound in general?
Shure.  8)
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If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?
Something else.

Shure has enjoyed a vaguely similar success with phono cartridges, with perhaps an even more profitable model, before that technology expired. This kind of business success does not happen by accident, but likewise does not happen just because you want it to, it takes a convergence of opportunity and execution. 
Quote

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It seems this should be more of a business case study that "technocultural" study whatever that means. At least the other mic manufacturers might want to read your paper.

JR
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Tony Martin on May 27, 2011, 03:30:18 PM
Would you be willing to take a few minutes to answer some questions about your experiences with the SM58?
Well, alright.

Quote
Thank you for your time.
You're welcome.

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Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?
It sounds decent, you can get fairly good gain before feedback, they can take a beating and still keep sounding decent.

Quote
Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?
Back around '78, in a bar.

Quote
Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?
Yes.
When there is nothing noticeably better available, or when I think the mic may get dropped or kicked around.
Because most other mics will not take the physical abuse.

Quote
When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?
Beyer springs to mind. AKG makes several wonderful sounding vocal mics. I am sure there are a host of great vocal mics that I've never tried, so I cannot give a definitive answer, except to say that a Beyer I once owned sounded simply amazing, almost like someone had switched on an Aphex Aural Exciter.

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Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?
Chuckle.....I don't know how much impact they've had on my career, but several of my 58's have had some pretty serious impacts on floors, chairs, etc, and they are still working.
I guess their impact on my career would be they've saved me money by not having to be replaced every time they get dropped.

Quote
If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?
I'm pretty sure nothing by Radio Shack would be in the running for top spot....
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Bob Leonard on May 27, 2011, 05:05:34 PM
I tried to get away from 58's but they dragged me back!  Have 12 of them at the moment.


Reasons....
- There are something like 83 thousand bazillion of them out there and all but 3 of them still work
(The cable is bad on 2 of those 3 and Rodger Daltrey took care of the other one)
- Anyone who can EQ one or more mics correctly, can set the EQ on a 58 (even if they don't like 58's)
- No one looks at a 58 and says "What mic is that, is it any good?"
- Bono, and a bunch of other people you haven't heard of, use them.
- They don't cost much.
- They say Shure on them

And that's why I still carry a half dozen even though all of my mics say Heil on them now. You still need mics for waterbags and the village idiot.
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on May 27, 2011, 05:11:28 PM

And that's why I still carry a half dozen even though all of my mics say Heil on them now. You still need mics for waterbags and the village idiot.

Oh, goody!!!  Now we can have a "best village idiot mic" thread to rival the "best kick drum mic" thread.
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Matt Tudor on May 27, 2011, 06:12:37 PM

First use of a 58....church gig 15 years ago. They had 12 of them cause they were relatively inexpensive, easily available, and virtually indestructible. The mic wasn't the weakest link in that signal chain so I didn't complain.

I keep 10 or so scattered around our university. They get used regularly for conferencing clients who just need a simple mic on a stand or may or may not take care of my "good" mics. The 58s also see use at many student activities where I am not immediately supervising the event and suspect the mics may be abused. I also keep a couple in the mic box cause once in a while I get group thru here that specifically asks for 58s cause they are familiar with that sound. Most of my bigger event clients get the "good" mics though, as I prefer other options.

Impact on my career? Not that I can think of. It's just not that great of a mic. On live sound in general? I don't know if it's much of an impact, but I can't think of any other single product in the industry that has been around as consistently for as long as the 58. That's got to be worth something.....

I don't think there is a "standard" mic for anything, the 58 is more of a least common denominator. Everyone here is going to have their favorite vocal mic. The only reason it might be considered a standard is cause Shure's marketing machine has sold about 4 quintillion of the things to every dive bar, church, school, and karaoke joint in the world. By the same logic the Big Mac is a standard hamburger. Actually there's lots of parallels there..... :-\ Because each vocalist is so different I don't know that there is, or would be, a standard solution.


I am writing a paper on the Shure SM58, and I'd like to have some real-world perspectives on the microphone and its impact on the live sound industry.  The Shure SM58 is the most widely used live vocal mic in the world, and I'm trying to get a sense of why that is, and how it is used by real world sound engineers.

Would you be willing to take a few minutes to answer some questions about your experiences with the SM58?

These responses will be used in a research paper for a Technocultural Studies class at UC Davis. If you do not want your response included in the paper, please indicate that in your post.

Thank you for your time.

Tim Kerbavaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?


Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?


Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?


When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?


Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?


If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Matt Errend on May 27, 2011, 07:45:31 PM
The word ubiquitous comes to mind.

Short story:

I got called in to mix a gig that someone else had flaked on, and the first band was already set by the time I had got there. Total of 17 mics for a small community benefit concert in a park. All of them were SM58's.  :o


I am writing a paper on the Shure SM58, and I'd like to have some real-world perspectives on the microphone and its impact on the live sound industry.  The Shure SM58 is the most widely used live vocal mic in the world, and I'm trying to get a sense of why that is, and how it is used by real world sound engineers.

Would you be willing to take a few minutes to answer some questions about your experiences with the SM58?

These responses will be used in a research paper for a Technocultural Studies class at UC Davis. If you do not want your response included in the paper, please indicate that in your post.

Thank you for your time.

Tim Kerbavaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?


Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?


Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?


When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?


Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?


If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Rafi Singer on May 27, 2011, 11:52:08 PM
Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?
It's cheap, pretty durable, aesthetically looks like your prototypical "vocal mic." Some people like it's sound.

Quote
Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?
Probably back when I was in summer camp, around age 15. It's what they had.

Quote
Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?
Yes, at my house gig. Usually, I end up using my own vocal mics (either Sennheiser e835's or EV PL80's) because I feel they sound far superior. I will opt for the house mic when I have either neglected to bring my own, or else I don't trust the artist to take care of my gear.
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When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?
Almost any day of the week, if I had my choice. The e835 and e935 sound way smoother to my ears, they both have a better frequency response, tighter pattern, and WAY higher gain before feedback.

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the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?
Maybe? I suppose the 58 has become ubiquitous with rock vocals and it is the one mic that most everyone knows about.


Quote
If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?
There is no standard.

Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Dave Dermont on May 28, 2011, 01:42:26 AM


Why, in your opinion, is the SM58 so popular? Is its popularity merited?
The SM58 sounds good and lasts a long time. Well cared for ones last decades. Abused ones last decades, with only the need to replace the "ball".

Quote
Under what circumstances did you use an SM58 for the first time? When was that?
A band I worked for replaced their six white Peavey mics with brand new SM58s in 1976. The keyboard player from that band still has his.

Quote
Do you use SM58's regularly? When do you choose the SM58 over other mics? Why?
I carry an SM58 in my road case. Very often, I don't make the choice. It's either asked for by the talent, or it's what's in the mic box.

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When would you use a different vocal microphone?  What mic would that be? Why?
When I use my personal mics, I have Audix OM3s and an EV  N/D 967 for singing drummers

Quote
Has the SM58 had an impact on your sound career? On live sound in general?
The SM58 is a lot of people's first "good" microphone. It's biggest impact on live sound in general is that it has become the benchmark by which other mics are compared.

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If the SM58 did not exist, what microphone would be the standard for live vocals? Why?
The Shure 565SD. It was the predecessor to the SM58, and was used extensively on stage at the Woodstock Festival in 1969. Bill Hanley, the man in charge of the audio at Woodstock, and a lot of other high-profile events of the period would A/B the 565 with other popular mics of the day (often Electro-Voice mics, which were popular with broadcasters at that time) for non-believers and anyone else who cared to listen.
(http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/prod_img_565sd_l.jpg)
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Tim Kerbavaz on May 28, 2011, 08:22:50 PM
It seems this should be more of a business case study that "technocultural" study whatever that means. At least the other mic manufacturers might want to read your paper.

JR

This paper is on the history, impact of 58 - I want the "culture" behind the "techno." I guess It's coming off via these questions as more of a Shure Puff piece. Obviously I'm not asking the right questions.

The 58 is unquestionably popular, but perhaps that popularity was more of being in the right place at the right time than the mic's inherent merits? It sounds like a lot of people resent the 58.

(To be fair, I use the e835 for live vocals. I bought them as an experiment, and I haven't really had a chance to do a real head-to-head, but I'm thus far happy.)
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Tim Kerbavaz on May 28, 2011, 08:39:19 PM
The Shure 565SD. It was the predecessor to the SM58, and was used extensively on stage at the Woodstock Festival in 1969. Bill Hanley, the man in charge of the audio at Woodstock, and a lot of other high-profile events of the period would A/B the 565 with other popular mics of the day (often Electro-Voice mics, which were popular with broadcasters at that time) for non-believers and anyone else who cared to listen.
(http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/prod_img_565sd_l.jpg)

You seem to have the history of the 58 down pat.  Could you point me to a couple books or websites that have a good history?  I'm not finding anything comprehensive in my search of the campus library.
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Fred Merkle on May 31, 2011, 01:00:20 PM
Have you spoken with Shure?  I know they've got a published book about the history of the company.  It certainly has a large amount of space dedicated to the 58.

Also, look up Ernie Seeler.  He was the engineer in the Mic Lab that developed the Unidyne III.

Also, some other tidbits.

1) The SM57 came first.
2) The 57 was intended for studio use.
3) Ernie Seeler hated rock music

-Fred
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Gus Housen on May 31, 2011, 02:39:41 PM
I use them because
they dont break
they are consistant
almost nobody says no to them
I am used to eqing them
I have 32 of them
Nothing says Rock like a '58

Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Jim McKeveny on June 01, 2011, 10:48:57 AM
For all of their foibles, they are a known quantity. I can fly in and listen to a system, talk thru a 58, and get to where I need to be quickly.

The world has witnessed how many fantastic shows where a 58 was the source on vocals? There are weaker links in the deliverance chain...
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Paul Dershem on July 10, 2011, 12:30:22 AM
The 58 shares the cultural stage with the VW Beetle and McDonalds hamburgers; they may not be the best, but they sure are recognizable! Notariety has become more important than quality. Was Warhol right?
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Charlie Zureki on July 10, 2011, 03:01:09 PM
Have you spoken with Shure?  I know they've got a published book about the history of the company.  It certainly has a large amount of space dedicated to the 58.

Also, look up Ernie Seeler.  He was the engineer in the Mic Lab that developed the Unidyne III.

Also, some other tidbits.

1) The SM57 came first.
2) The 57 was intended for studio use.
3) Ernie Seeler hated rock music

-Fred

   Hello,

  I own a couple of the Shure 565 Mics and one of the Unidyne Mics. 
 
 I don't know if this has already been posted here...but, the switch cover could be taken off and adjusted for either a low or high impedance output.

  Cheers,
  Hammer
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on July 11, 2011, 01:04:49 AM
How often does it happen that the performer has a SM58 in hand as a prop... but the real sound is from something else like a hairline mic (or, heaven forbid, a prerecorded track)?

I remember watching The Statler Brothers Show and noticing that when they sang, they were using wireless handheld mics (don't remember the brand) but when they'd stop singing and talk, the mics were at their sides and you could hear them just fine.
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Charlie Zureki on July 11, 2011, 01:56:38 AM
How often does it happen that the performer has a SM58 in hand as a prop... but the real sound is from something else like a hairline mic (or, heaven forbid, a prerecorded track)?

I remember watching The Statler Brothers Show and noticing that when they sang, they were using wireless handheld mics (don't remember the brand) but when they'd stop singing and talk, the mics were at their sides and you could hear them just fine.

  Hello Jonathon,

   It could have been that they were just props and that their tracks were recorded and lipsync'd ...or....they may have actually used the mics for their performance, but then were picked up by a fisher studio boom with a shotgun mic....

   cheers,
   Hammer
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on July 11, 2011, 11:36:54 PM
How often does it happen that the performer has a SM58 in hand as a prop... but the real sound is from something else like a hairline mic (or, heaven forbid, a prerecorded track)?

I remember watching The Statler Brothers Show and noticing that when they sang, they were using wireless handheld mics (don't remember the brand) but when they'd stop singing and talk, the mics were at their sides and you could hear them just fine.

  Hello Jonathon,

   It could have been that they were just props and that their tracks were recorded and lipsync'd ...or....they may have actually used the mics for their performance, but then were picked up by a fisher studio boom with a shotgun mic....

   cheers,
   Hammer

Could be... but I seem to recall there was a "live studio audience." But they see a whole lot more than the camera does.
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Charlie Zureki on July 12, 2011, 06:43:07 AM
How often does it happen that the performer has a SM58 in hand as a prop... but the real sound is from something else like a hairline mic (or, heaven forbid, a prerecorded track)?


  Hello Jonathon,

   It could have been that they were just props and that their tracks were recorded and lipsync'd ...or....they may have actually used the mics for their performance, but then were picked up by a fisher studio boom with a shotgun mic....

   cheers,
   Hammer

Could be... but I seem to recall there was a "live studio audience." But they see a whole lot more than the camera does.


   Hello Jonathon,

  Lip Sync'n for a "live studio audience" in a recorded television show does not hold the same taboo as a Lip Sync'd Artist performing for a  ticketed Concert.

  In television,  it's very common for having multiple re-takes, and "live studio audience" is not the same as a show being billed as "recorded Live"

 Cheers,
 Hammer
Title: Re: SM58 Research - Why do you use 58's?
Post by: Dave Dermont on July 15, 2011, 06:48:30 PM
The Shure 565SD. It was the predecessor to the SM58, and was used extensively on stage at the Woodstock Festival in 1969. Bill Hanley, the man in charge of the audio at Woodstock, and a lot of other high-profile events of the period would A/B the 565 with other popular mics of the day (often Electro-Voice mics, which were popular with broadcasters at that time) for non-believers and anyone else who cared to listen.
(http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/prod_img_565sd_l.jpg)

You seem to have the history of the 58 down pat.  Could you point me to a couple books or websites that have a good history?  I'm not finding anything comprehensive in my search of the campus library.

I once had the good fortune to have lunch with Bill Hanley and two Shure factory rep dudes.

Mr. Hanley is a very personable guy, and really seems to enjoy talking about his past exploits. The Shure guys were very interested in the answers Bill had to their questions. I was the proverbial "fly on the wall".

To paraphrase Yogi Berra, you can observe a lot by just watching.

Bill Hanley's website (http://www.billhanley.org/) certainly has a lot of '"cultural" stuff on it. Maybe look around there.