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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Installed Sound/Contracting => Topic started by: chris georgiou on May 12, 2018, 10:39:16 am

Title: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: chris georgiou on May 12, 2018, 10:39:16 am
I and in the process of installing a DBX ZonePro 1260m based system for an upscale hotel/restaurant/lounge place and I need to calibrate after the install. Speakers are new bi-amped JBL AE AM7212 for the main room, existing bi-amped McCauley  ID2.208 for the lounge powered by Crown CDI amps. No subs for now; will add them later on. What would you guys recommend for RTA? I've used REW(Room EQ Wizard) when I was building my speakers and I have a calibrated mic for it but I would rather use something designed for commercial.
Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: Rob Spence on May 13, 2018, 05:39:15 pm
I and in the process of installing a DBX ZonePro 1260m based system for an upscale hotel/restaurant/lounge place and I need to calibrate after the install. Speakers are new bi-amped JBL AE AM7212 for the main room, existing bi-amped McCauley  ID2.208 for the lounge powered by Crown CDI amps. No subs for now; will add them later on. What would you guys recommend for RTA? I've used REW(Room EQ Wizard) when I was building my speakers and I have a calibrated mic for it but I would rather use something designed for commercial.

An RTA is not the tool you need. An RTA has no sense of time which is critical in measuring a system.



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Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: Caleb Dueck on May 13, 2018, 06:40:43 pm
An RTA is not the tool you need. An RTA has no sense of time which is critical in measuring a system.



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Correct.  What you're looking for are SmaartLive or Systune.   And a class from them on how to use it. 

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Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: Craig Hauber on May 14, 2018, 01:35:43 pm
Correct.  What you're looking for are SmaartLive or Systune.   And a class from them on how to use it. 

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RTA's have some usefulness as an educational tool. 
If you are new to recognizing frequencies they are helpful -especially with feedback. 
They also really help one figure out the left to right LF to HF and up/down amplitude of charting standard -you might not realize how many people don't understand that. 
Watching an RTA while playing back commonly known sounds really helps one understand relationships of frequencies and loudness   -and really makes many have their first epiphany in finally equating a spec-sheet frequency-response graph to real life
I think these are things that people need to understand before even jumping to a Smaart or similar type system.
-for someone running out and buying a rig cold-turkey it would be a waste of money if they don't already fully understand an RTA and now have a craving for what they don't tell you

The cheap app-based rta's for smartphones are a really good way to help learn the basics and many times for non-critical BGM systems (with no serious tuning contracted) I've even pulled mine out and found that annoying resonance that was a half-octave lower than what I guessed.  Or trying to ring out that podium (sic) mic with a head-cold!

So they are not the end-all, but they still have their usefulness.
Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: chris georgiou on May 15, 2018, 10:32:07 am
At this point I mostly need to dial in the gain for the HF/LF and the two solutions are too much for what I need to do. I can do it by ear but want to get an idea about problem spots as well. Any reason not to use something like this?
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
I already have a calibrated mic for it(UBIK-1).
Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: Art Welter on May 15, 2018, 04:10:02 pm
Any reason not to use something like this?
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
I already have a calibrated mic for it(UBIK-1).
REW works fine.

Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: chris georgiou on May 15, 2018, 09:51:37 pm
REW works fine.

Thank you. Can you recommend a house curve? Flat response would probably sound just as bad as in my place. I used the harman curve when I was setting up my DIY Focal Utopia III clones and it made a huge difference.

Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: Jean-Pierre Coetzee on May 16, 2018, 03:19:40 pm
Hotel/Restaurant/lounge?

That sounds like background music to me, leave the system flat, honestly don't thing it's going to matter since it is background music. If it isn't background music then the answer becomes it depends, will there be an engineer present, if not a bass bump can cause some very interesting feedback issues(consider almost everything is omnidirectional at low frequencies) and I would want to avoid it.

If it is going to be just loud music for dancing and such then it depends on the genre of the music but in almost all cases a system that is tuned flat is the way to do it.

Think about the fact that the system tuning is not the place to add colour, it is a scientific process and scientifically flat is the best place to start, at the console/input is the place to add colour.
Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: chris georgiou on May 16, 2018, 07:52:59 pm
Normally it will just be background music but they want to have the option to hold events with a DJ.
Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: Jean-Pierre Coetzee on May 17, 2018, 05:10:04 am
Normally it will just be background music but they want to have the option to hold events with a DJ.

Then for sure keep it flat and install a limiter that is capable of dealing with DJs. The DJ will boost the bass anyway so why blow your drivers even quicker and as I said for background music if the system is flat it should translate quite close to what the original studio engineer envision.
Title: Re: Software RTA for DBX/Crown CDI System
Post by: chris georgiou on May 18, 2018, 10:37:49 pm
Then for sure keep it flat and install a limiter that is capable of dealing with DJs. The DJ will boost the bass anyway so why blow your drivers even quicker and as I said for background music if the system is flat it should translate quite close to what the original studio engineer envision.

Thank you, I added a limiter in the DBX zonePro already. I'll just balance the HF/LF and leave the system flat as per your recommendation.