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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Chris Johnson [UK] on January 13, 2014, 07:55:28 AM

Title: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on January 13, 2014, 07:55:28 AM
Not sure if its been posted already, but this is a pretty big deal:

http://www.waves.com/plugins/dugan-automixer
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Steve Payne on January 13, 2014, 08:28:09 AM
Not sure if its been posted already, but this is a pretty big deal:

http://www.waves.com/plugins/dugan-automixer

This would be much more exciting personally if the Venue platform were supported.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 13, 2014, 08:41:49 AM
Not sure if its been posted already, but this is a pretty big deal:

http://www.waves.com/plugins/dugan-automixer
#1 it's about time.
#2 Proprietary, to use his name and blessing.
#3 $500 (good for him) ?

I still haven't figured out why this isn't more common (and free in digital consoles). The algorithms are public domain, have been for years.

JR
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Josh Hana on January 13, 2014, 09:18:33 AM
This would be much more exciting personally if the Venue platform were supported.

?
"Soundgrid" is the same platform as the Venue for plugins.
$750 is steep for a plugin, but not as steep as the physical Dugan card for venue
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on January 13, 2014, 11:02:52 AM
No, this doesn't work on Venue.

Its not a limitation of Venue itself per se, but because I don't believe they support plugin instances with more than 2 inputs and outputs.

I'm very excited about it. I suspect this will kill the MY card version a bit though! Since a Waves card, soundgrid server and multirack license all add up to less...
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Josh Hana on January 13, 2014, 12:56:12 PM
No, this doesn't work on Venue.

Its not a limitation of Venue itself per se, but because I don't believe they support plugin instances with more than 2 inputs and outputs.

I'm very excited about it. I suspect this will kill the MY card version a bit though! Since a Waves card, soundgrid server and multirack license all add up to less...

So it definitely won't work on the venue? That's a shame, I was about to download the demo and try it out this afternoon
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on January 13, 2014, 02:34:04 PM
Yeah, it definitely doesn't.

Waves' own compatibility page says so. It is a shame, I agree.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Riley Casey on January 13, 2014, 03:19:10 PM
Not sure I see the math on that.  The Dugan hardware card in the Yamaha iteration comes in around $2300 and has 16 channels of processing.  The same config in the Waves plugs via the Yamaha Waves card provides only eight channels and even so gets very close to the outlay for the dedicated Dugan card.  If the investment in Waves support is already made then the cost of the plug is much more attractive of course but still eats card slots in a hurry on the Yamahas.

Yamaha Y96 card $800
Waves Soundgrid box $1150
Dugan Waves plug $500
computer $1500 ( something you'll trust the show to )
Assorted switches & roadworthy infrastructure $750


... I suspect this will kill the MY card version a bit though! Since a Waves card, soundgrid server and multirack license all add up to less...
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: John Penkala on January 13, 2014, 04:41:16 PM
Not sure if its been posted already, but this is a pretty big deal:

http://www.waves.com/plugins/dugan-automixer

I'm very interested to learn if it is possible to get a post fader insert signal into the software from an X32.  I already run Waves Multirack Native on a dedicated MacBook Pro Retina via firewire on the X32 and it has been rock solid.

JP
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Ollie Morrish on January 15, 2014, 01:08:53 PM
Not sure I see the math on that.  The Dugan hardware card in the Yamaha iteration comes in around $2300 and has 16 channels of processing.  The same config in the Waves plugs via the Yamaha Waves card provides only eight channels and even so gets very close to the outlay for the dedicated Dugan card.  If the investment in Waves support is already made then the cost of the plug is much more attractive of course but still eats card slots in a hurry on the Yamahas.

Yamaha Y96 card $800
Waves Soundgrid box $1150
Dugan Waves plug $500
computer $1500 ( something you'll trust the show to )
Assorted switches & roadworthy infrastructure $750

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, but it seems to be 32 or 64 channels (is this determined by sample rate?) and there is a pretty good deal on a Soundgrid Compact Server package... $1100 for a server, IO card, switch, cabling and a couple of plugins.

http://www.waves.com/hardware/yamaha-compact-combo

I think this puts it pretty much in line with a MY16 card, plus you can run other Waves plugins, and you are not just tied to Yamaha consoles.

-Ollie
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Mark McFarlane on January 19, 2014, 03:34:34 AM
I'm very interested to learn if it is possible to get a post fader insert signal into the software from an X32.  I already run Waves Multirack Native on a dedicated MacBook Pro Retina via firewire on the X32 and it has been rock solid.

JP

JP, what kind of agency are you getting on this setup?

FWIW, I just bought a Dante card for my new GLD112, primarily to record and for virtual soundcheck, and am now thinking I should have gone with a Waves solution for about the same money, but with additional functionality.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: John Penkala on January 19, 2014, 12:57:12 PM
JP, what kind of agency are you getting on this setup?

FWIW, I just bought a Dante card for my new GLD112, primarily to record and for virtual soundcheck, and am now thinking I should have gone with a Waves solution for about the same money, but with additional functionality.


Do you mean latency? I am getting 8.54ms round trip with "zero latency plugins" via firewire.  To calculate additional latency take the latency in samples and divide by the sample rate. For example, a plugin with a latency of 96 samples at a sample rate of 48K is 96/48000=.002 (2ms). BTW I have had problems with high latency plugins in IEM mixes but never a problem at FOH.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on January 19, 2014, 01:36:09 PM
The waves card for Yamaha adds 2ms of latency to the digital roundtrip.

This means that if you take the console (say a CL1) and include a waves card, and go through a C6, the resulting analog to analog latency is about 5ms. In this instance its approximately 2ms for the console, 2ms for waves, 1ms for the plugin chain.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Mark McFarlane on January 19, 2014, 02:06:35 PM

Do you mean latency? ..

Yep,...Damn auto spell checkers.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: John Penkala on January 20, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
Yep,...Damn auto spell checkers.

Mark,
         I believe you can still use Waves Multirack via Dante Virtual Soundcard. If you have DVS, you should download the demo of Multirack and some Waves plugins and try them out.

JP
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Mark McFarlane on January 20, 2014, 10:16:56 AM
Mark,
         I believe you can still use Waves Multirack via Dante Virtual Soundcard. If you have DVS, you should download the demo of Multirack and some Waves plugins and try them out.

JP

Thanks John. I think it will work also but from what I have read I suspect the Dante interface latency will make it all but unusable except for verbs and delays where the few extra ms of latency isn't an issue.  I just received my new GLD console and I have a lot of stuff to master before I start playing with the 'nice to have' features.  I have a decent investment already in Waves Native plug-ins so eventually (in a few months perhaps) I will test it.

I'm suspecting this solution only works with Waves Native plugins. What I'd really to to use live is my Sonnox TransMod plugin which is awesome for sculpting transients for drums, acoustic guitar pick/attack (more or less),...
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: John Penkala on January 21, 2014, 12:55:49 PM
Thanks John. I think it will work also but from what I have read I suspect the Dante interface latency will make it all but unusable except for verbs and delays where the few extra ms of latency isn't an issue.  I just received my new GLD console and I have a lot of stuff to master before I start playing with the 'nice to have' features.  I have a decent investment already in Waves Native plug-ins so eventually (in a few months perhaps) I will test it.

I'm suspecting this solution only works with Waves Native plugins. What I'd really to to use live is my Sonnox TransMod plugin which is awesome for sculpting transients for drums, acoustic guitar pick/attack (more or less),...

You are correct. Multirack only works with Waves plugins. I use the Waves Trans X plugin for anything I would use a Transient Designer on.

-JP
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Mark McFarlane on January 25, 2014, 02:49:01 AM
.... What I'd really to to use live is my Sonnox TransMod plugin which is awesome for sculpting transients for drums, acoustic guitar pick/attack (more or less),...

At NAMM A&H announced v 1.4 firmware with scene crossfading, multiband compression, dynamic eq, and a transient controller. Life is good.  Availability feb: http://community.allen-heath.com/archives/37240
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: John Penkala on January 25, 2014, 01:29:35 PM
At NAMM A&H announced v 1.4 firmware with scene crossfading, multiband compression, dynamic eq, and a transient controller. Life is good.  Availability feb: http://community.allen-heath.com/archives/37240

Are those available on every channel as inserts or do you have to use one of your effects slots? Behringer released V2 for the X32 at NAMM this week with quite a few upgrades. Unfortunately, to use their CL2 compressor or transient designer models you must use an effects slot.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Mark McFarlane on January 25, 2014, 01:39:45 PM
Are those available on every channel as inserts or do you have to use one of your effects slots? Behringer released V2 for the X32 at NAMM this week with quite a few upgrades. Unfortunately, to use their CL2 compressor or transient designer models you must use an effects slot.

Based on the look of the GUIs in the teaser, and on the amount of compute cycles needed to implement multi-band compression and dynamic EQ, I'm guessing these are for effects slots only.
Title: Re: Dugan Automixer as a Waves Plugin!
Post by: Steve Ratcliff on March 01, 2014, 03:24:02 PM
I'm very interested to learn if it is possible to get a post fader insert signal into the software from an X32.  I already run Waves Multirack Native on a dedicated MacBook Pro Retina via firewire on the X32 and it has been rock solid.

JP

Glad to hear, JP.  I've been wondering about multirack with X32 (and M32) but the post-fader thing puts a hefty crimp in the Dugan functionality.