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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Mike Sullivan on December 05, 2013, 03:34:46 PM
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I'm in the market to look at some more mics to expand my (limited) collection. Right now I use Audix drum mics and vocal mics, a few SM58's, and several SM57's, which get me by with little to no issue, but I would like to improve my collection, to better suit some of my needs..Here's what I have in mind right now
4-6 Beta 58A's
Couple more SM57's and SM58's
1-2 Sennheiser e609's
Beta 52 and Beta 91 as kick alternatives
SM81's for overheads/misc use
2-3 clip-on Audix instrument mics for horns
Extra Audix drum mics as well as condensers for acoustic/bluegrass shows
Anything else I should look at getting? I do mostly rock/country shows, and I have a friend who may call on me for bluegrass on occasion, but he has his own set of Audio Technica AT4041's he favors for bluegrass.
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You are actually off to a great start.
My idea of a standard - day to day 'git r' done' mic pack is -
6x SM57
6x SM58
2x Senn e609
3x SM81
2x beta 52
1x Beta 91
4x Tom Mics (ev 468's are great because you get the adjustable capsule)
4x Mono DI (passive, eliminates potential phantom issues)
2x Stereo DI(same as above)
2x LDC (depends on your budget, I like the AKG214's for a starter pack)
There is no sense buying boutique mics for live shows, especially if you are the provider. There is so much that can happen on the stage, and the last thing you want is for some band guy to walk off with a nice mic, or mis-treat something you value. If you like certain things go for them, it's your money. If you prefer 835 instead of SM58, that's fine, just know that a guest BE is never really going to give you crap for providing sm58's.
Keep in mind that everything you buy is going to be multi purpose. Stray away from buying specialty mics that are one-trick ponies. You can take the extra 57s, wrap them in cloth and place them inside a baby grand. You can take the extra beta 52 and mic the bass cab, or do the same with an extra tom mic if the drummer only uses two toms, the 81's can be spot mics for the 214's as the main stereo pair for a bluegrass gig, the 57's can go to aux percussion, you get the idea.
Also, figure 4-6 short boom stands, 8-10 tall boom stands, 3-4 straight stands (round base), and some clamps for drums etc.
Have Phun!
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This is my kit with a few additions that will eventually end up in it.
4x Sennheiser e935 - great vocal mics, ditch the crappy SM58's
4x Sennheiser e945 - depending on the monitor setup
3x RODE M1 - great for handheld screamers
8x Beta 57A - I prefer them a lot compared to normal SM57's
4x Beta 56A - Alternative Floor tom mics, good bass mic and percussion spots and horns
4x Sennheiser e904 - Go to tom mics, snare bottom, snare top when running low on stands
1x Sennheiser e901 - personal preference over the shure options
3x Sennheiser e906 - guitar option over the Beta 57A as some BE's prefer the 906, good for horns and snare bottom
2x AKG C391b - hats/general purpose SDC for pianos, strings etc
2x AKG C414 XL-II - OH's, piano etc
2x Audix D6 - the go to bass drum outer mic for most people, also a great floor tom mic and bass cab mic
Audix D2 - great snare mic
8x Mono passive DI's with Jensen transformers - radial
4x Active DI's - radial
Things to have for BE preferences if you want to cater to riders:
1x AKG D112 - dislike it personally, only good for jazz in my mind but YMMV
2x Beta 52A - again as above but a lot of guys like them
8x SM57 - always good to have, I just prefer the Beta 57A
8x SM58 - dislike them personally, again good to have for riders
3x SM81 - never had a problem with them, just prefer AKG, many BE's use them
6x Beta 58A - I like them but like Sennheiser more
4x e604 - some prefer them over the e904
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I have a few not listed.
Audix I5.. great snare mic
Heil PR 22.. My new favorite vocal mic
Sennheiser E 906.. Absolutely great on guitars
AT Pro 37. All purpose condenser. I've used this on hi hat (always) acoustic guitars, mandolins ect
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I have a few not listed.
Audix I5.. great snare mic
Heil PR 22.. My new favorite vocal mic
Sennheiser E 906.. Absolutely great on guitars
AT Pro 37. All purpose condenser. I've used this on hi hat (always) acoustic guitars, mandolins ect
And horns...
Pro 37: if you're going to have SDC's in your kit, you might as well have a dozen matching units. The Pro 37 is good enough and affordable enough to do this.
I have more SDC's than I can remember, probably over two dozen. I've got 6 of one, four of two others, three of another and pairs of a bunch more.
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I'm in the market to look at some more mics to expand my (limited) collection. Right now I use Audix drum mics and vocal mics, a few SM58's, and several SM57's, which get me by with little to no issue, but I would like to improve my collection, to better suit some of my needs..Here's what I have in mind right now
4-6 Beta 58A's
Couple more SM57's and SM58's
1-2 Sennheiser e609's
Beta 52 and Beta 91 as kick alternatives
SM81's for overheads/misc use
2-3 clip-on Audix instrument mics for horns
Extra Audix drum mics as well as condensers for acoustic/bluegrass shows
Anything else I should look at getting? I do mostly rock/country shows, and I have a friend who may call on me for bluegrass on occasion, but he has his own set of Audio Technica AT4041's he favors for bluegrass.
The glaring hole in your collection right now is condenser mics.
The SM81s are a good idea, and probably what you should immediately look into. The AT Pro37 is a very good lower priced small diaphragm condenser.
You mentioned the 4041. I happen to like these a bit more than the SM81, and they are a tad cheaper than the SM81.
For clip-ons, I really like the ATM-350. I don't think the lower priced Pro 35 is nearly as good, but then, the price difference between the two reflects this. There is always the Beta98, but some people love to hate them.
The Audix I-5 has the advantage of being sturdier than the SM57, and is much better at taking drum stick hits.
The Audix D2 is a very good horn mic. If you want to expand your selection, the EV N/D468 is one of the all time great workhorse dynamic mics.
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+1 on the Pro37's. Bought 2 on the recommendations of folks here and have used them for multiple things for our band and helping out.
On the e609, save and get the e906 - it's a much better sounding mic. I had the 609, and then bought a 906 for guitar. Quickly sold the 609 and bought another 906.
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The glaring hole in your collection right now is condenser mics.
And perhaps a multi-pattern condenser or a ribbon like a FatHead...something with nulls on the sides.
Everybody talks about pickup patterns, but sometimes it's the "no-pickup" pattern that you need.
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And perhaps a multi-pattern condenser or a ribbon like a FatHead...something with nulls on the sides.
The Royer R-121 paired with an SM-57 is all the rage here in Nashville for country electric guitar in the studio. The problem with duplicating the setup on the road is that you'll invariably blow out the ribbon on a Royer. Trust me. I own a Fathead with the Lundahl trafo, and it's the perfect substitute without breaking the bank or breaking your heart if the ribbon gets stretched.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Beyerdynamic M-88. It's a great general purpose "middle of the mix" mic, and absolutely kills on horns. For decades, it was the secret weapon for heavy metal kick drums. I've heard it sound great on just about every type of percussive source, including conga, djembe, and even hi-hat.
Also an honorable mention for the MD-421. Has there ever been a better tom mic? Also kills on Marshall 4-12 cabs, tenor & bass sax, bass guitar cabs, and trombone.
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Anything else I should look at getting? I do mostly rock/country shows, and I have a friend who may call on me for bluegrass on occasion, but he has his own set of Audio Technica AT4041's he favors for bluegrass.
Beta 57's (my vote for the best all round multipurpose mic in existence.)
edit sp
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Thanks for the replies all. I'll definitely look at several of those suggestions. I definitely need to double up on drum mics. I've had to use 57's in place of tom mics (had to deal with 5-6 toms), and will eventually have someone with a double kick kit. One band I will be working with quite a bit next year has an old Leslie organ cabinet, and I've been told a pair of condensers with a low mic is the best set up. The rest are just mainly specialty stuff (Guitars, bass, etc)
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I have been in the quest for the ideal mic locker over the past few years. Reading venues riders is of great help for selecting what is "required" and what is "nice to have". I have made statistics amongst more than 40 Parisian venues, from 100 to 1500 seats. Here is the percentage of presence of some mics in those riders:
AKG
C414 7%
C451 22%
C535 39%
D112 20%
SE300 17%
AT
ATM33a 12%
AT4033 2%
ATM350 2%
AT4041 5%
Audix
D4 5%
D6 12%
I5 10%
OM3 5%
Beyer
M88 29%
Neumann
KM184 27%
KMS105 12%
TLM103 5%
Sennheiser
MD421 63%
MD441 5%
E602 12%
E604/E904 85%
E609/E906 61%
E835 2%
E908 2%
E935 5%
Shure
B52 66%
B56 15%
B57 32%
B58 51%
B87 15%
Beta/SM91 51%
B98 22%
KSM137 15%
SM57 100%
SM58 98%
SM81 34%
SM86 5%
SM87 2%
A few notes:
As you get more and more specialized mics, all-rounders like the SM58/SM57 become less useful. So it might not be a good idea to add such mics to your current collection. The ones you already have might be enough when you will have bought other brands.
The market here in France might be different of yours. Maybe European mics are more present in the venues here. Shure remains THE leader anyway.
There are plenty of alternatives that are not on the riders but are accepted with no discussion. Replacing SM81 with AT4041 is a good example. When you are not dealing with renown bands, this is easier to place not-so-famous mics you like. I am a big fan of the SM86. Few venues have it, but I manage to place it as lead vocal on 4 shows out of 5 (one-offs). So there is room for your own taste.
Considering what you have, a pair of E609/906 and a pair of SM81 or AT4041 seem a good investment to me. If you need more tom mics, keep going with Audix (D line or Fusion ?).
As for adding standard mics: Beta 52, Beta 91, AKG C535, Beyer M88 are good candidates. The B52 is not significantly different from an Audix D6 (if you already have it). So you might search something that will "enlarge" more your panel.
The MD421 is very common but not cheap, all the more that you usually need 2 or 3.
Adding 4 Beta58 will not change many things other the SM58. You can buy one or two for lead vocals.
My 0.02euros.
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Sheesh, mine's very small since I do local gigs compared to the rest of the list here!
- 1x AKG C 747
- 8x Audio-Technica at853a
- 5x Audio-Technica pro35x
- 1x Audio-Technica at857QMa
- 1x Countryman EMW Omni
- 2x EV N/D 257
- 2x Sennheiser ew 135 G3
- 1x Sennheiser ew 112 G3
- 1x Shure Beta 52a
- 1x Shure Beta 53
- 3x Shure Beta 56a
- 1x Shure SM57 Unidyne III
- 1x Shure SM58
- 1x Shure SM86
- 1x Shure WL50
The Shure SM86 is such a sleeper mic, I prefer it over the 58 any day.
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Well, my shows aren't huge either (biggest I do is a 1500 person free festival, where maybe 2-300 people are in attendance for one band) but I always like to be prepared. More of an OCD thing than anything, I know what it's like to run around without what you needed, and it's a PITA.
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I'm in the market to look at some more mics to expand my (limited) collection. Right now I use Audix drum mics and vocal mics, a few SM58's, and several SM57's, which get me by with little to no issue, but I would like to improve my collection, to better suit some of my needs..Here's what I have in mind right now
{snip}
Anything else I should look at getting? I do mostly rock/country shows, and I have a friend who may call on me for bluegrass on occasion, but he has his own set of Audio Technica AT4041's he favors for bluegrass.
There is a nice Sticky Thread at the top of this forum about vocal mics (that wandered a bit). Start there. Some, like the the AKG C-535, are quite versatile.
The real answers rest in answering this: what do you need microphones to do? What will different microphones do for your bottom line, i.e. will they help you get new or different work or allow you to bill more to existing clients?
Or my favorite: is this a way of rationalizing a Gear Acquisition Syndrome (microphones) problem? I can quit buying mics anytime... really I can. Really! (nudge, wink).
What can mics do for your business?
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There have been lots of good suggestions so far.
As with most things in audio... it depends. In my hall we do tons of folk and jazz. So I find myself pulling out my EV RE-20s all the time for upright bass, and kick drum. I also love that mic on horns. The AKG 535 is the go to folk vocal mic. It is also great on high winds (clarinet, flute, sop sax, etc).
An SDC is my, "crap something weird just showed up on stage and I have to mic it" solution. The shure SM-81 is great. If budget allows grab a pair (or a dozen) Nuemann KM184s. That's my goto mic for guitar if I can't use a clip on.
Shure's Beta 98a works wonders on toms and is a good horn mic too. 4 of those in the mic locker is a good idea.
DPA 4099 is the best clip on mic out there for strings. Use it on fiddle, cello, bass, guitar, banjo. Get 4 and an assortment of clips. It also works well on piano, toms, horns, and a dozen other things.
If you ever have to fill riders or work with BE's get lots of SM-58s and SM-57s. Most BEs don't have time to work with new mics as they are setting up for a gig. They want what they know.
You'll want Stereo and Mono DIs. I tend to only buy active ones. Most riders and BEs want active DIs. The Radial J48 can't be beat. Go JDI if you really want passive. Get more DIs than you think you'll ever need. I can't tell you how many times I've had a BE want a few extra DIs to prop up the front of a wedge or a guitar player arrives with 6 guitars instead of 2. Also get some DIs designed for computer/ipods. I like the Radial JPC or ProAV2, but their new stage bug laptop DI is good too.
The AKG 414 is the LDC of choice for riders. Its a great mic on lots of things. I own 4 and wish I had more of them. Its going to be the first call mic for grand piano most of the time (if not a 414 then probably a KM184). Its good for overheads, vibes, guitar, etc, etc.
-d
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On the e609, save and get the e906 - it's a much better sounding mic. I had the 609, and then bought a 906 for guitar. Quickly sold the 609 and bought another 906.
Agreed. I do not like the sound of the 609 on an amp...at all. I also have used the EV n/d308/408/468 mics on guitar amps with great success.
I'd also say that a basic kit has to include 4-6 SM58 and 4-6 SM57, as others have pointed out. Consider there are more SM58 than everything else combined, and you'll find that more singers are familiar with them than not. You may not personally like them, but that is not necessarily your choice.
Best regards,
John
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I mixed three big bands this week. Some of my favorite mics in use were:
Beyer M88 and M69- on saxes
EV n/d 468
Sennheiser MD421- Bari sax
Audix D2 on bones, this worked great
SM57 on trumpets, always works fine for me
As others mentioned, all of these mics are great on so many things. The n/d 468 is great because is can be cool for toms or horns or guitars. It is very easy to position. The E604 clip on tom mic is great for other things as well.
Telefunken M80 is a cool mic for snare and vocals... it has a bit of presence that I find myself adding to many vocal mics.
I like to have mics in at least pairs for added flexibility...
So many mics, so little time...
Cheers,
Nils
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Bumping this up. Based on everyone's suggestions, here's what I'm looking at going with for the moment...
5 Audix OM3 wireless mics (already have all 5)
5 Shure Beta 58A
4 Shure SM58 (already have 2)
12 Shure SM57 (already have 6)
1 Shure Beta 52A
1 Shure Beta 91A
1 Sennheiser e602 or e902
3 Sennheiser e604 or e904
1 Electrovoice RE320
2 Audix D6 (already have 1)
4 Audix i5 (already have 1)
8 Audix D2 (already have 3)
4 Audix D4 (already have 1)
6 Audix ADX51 (already have 2)
This should cover me in most every way. Main reason I'm getting so many is that a couple shows I do, I have to cover two stages. And as for all the drum mics, I've worked with some pretty big drumkits, sometimes 8-piece or more. Always planning ahead. There may be a few changes, less quantities, etc as I choose, but this is my main list. Most of my shows are country/southern rock, but I also want to be prepared for bluegrass (B58A's and ADX51's) and other types of music. You never know what you're going to get into. I haven't had a problem having just enough mics before.
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Bumping this up. Based on everyone's suggestions, here's what I'm looking at going with for the moment...
This should cover me in most every way. Main reason I'm getting so many is that a couple shows I do, I have to cover two stages. And as for all the drum mics, I've worked with some pretty big drumkits, sometimes 8-piece or more. Always planning ahead. There may be a few changes, less quantities, etc as I choose, but this is my main list. Most of my shows are country/southern rock, but I also want to be prepared for bluegrass (B58A's and ADX51's) and other types of music. You never know what you're going to get into. I haven't had a problem having just enough mics before.
The Beta 58 is one of my least-liked microphones. It's got the "ice pick in the forehead" sound that I spent 15 years trying to get rid of (only to find out that, back then, it was the combination of HF driver and horn). If you want a mic with a presence boost that is wider and smoother, try the Shure SM-86. I use them on a big bluegrass festival where some artists bring Neumann KMS-105. While not the same, they are similar enough that we don't need to make any significant changes in monitor world to accommodate the Neumann users.
In condenser mic land (again, I do a lot of bluegrass and acoustic music) I really like the Audio Technica AT4021, for less money consider the ATM-450 or even the AT Pro37. Versatile mics.
If you're doing big drum kits or 2 stages, I'd add another Betae52/91 combo for those who don't want the Audix.
Go with 10 SM-57 and get a pair of Senny e906... besides guitar amps I think they are good trumpet & trombone mics, too, and you can use them on floor toms in a pinch.
Microphones are fun to use and collect.... and yes, I'm rationalizing my Gear Acquisition Syndrome. ;)
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Agreed. I do not like the sound of the 609 on an amp...at all. I also have used the EV n/d308/408/468 mics on guitar amps with great success.
I'd also say that a basic kit has to include 4-6 SM58 and 4-6 SM57, as others have pointed out. Consider there are more SM58 than everything else combined, and you'll find that more singers are familiar with them than not. You may not personally like them, but that is not necessarily your choice.
Best regards,
John
+1 on the 308's. I was searching for something to replace my 421's as they were just too cumbersome and fragile. I find the 308 to be a great alternative and sounds almost as good. Not only did the 308 replace my 421's, I also ditched all my sm57's of which the 308 sounds much better.
They can be found easily under $100, they're highly adjustable, light weight and sound good on cabs, horns, toms, really anything you would use a 421 or 57 on.
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The Beta 58 is one of my least-liked microphones. It's got the "ice pick in the forehead" sound that I spent 15 years trying to get rid of (only to find out that, back then, it was the combination of HF driver and horn). If you want a mic with a presence boost that is wider and smoother, try the Shure SM-86. I use them on a big bluegrass festival where some artists bring Neumann KMS-105. While not the same, they are similar enough that we don't need to make any significant changes in monitor world to accommodate the Neumann users.
In condenser mic land (again, I do a lot of bluegrass and acoustic music) I really like the Audio Technica AT4021, for less money consider the ATM-450 or even the AT Pro37. Versatile mics.
If you're doing big drum kits or 2 stages, I'd add another Betae52/91 combo for those who don't want the Audix.
Go with 10 SM-57 and get a pair of Senny e906... besides guitar amps I think they are good trumpet & trombone mics, too, and you can use them on floor toms in a pinch.
Microphones are fun to use and collect.... and yes, I'm rationalizing my Gear Acquisition Syndrome. ;)
Main reason for the Beta 58a is for riders, since I do work with a larger company that calls me on occasion. I like using my OM3's where I can, and they work for just about anything, but everyone around here uses Beta 58's or SM58's. I forgot about the 609's as well, but I had meant to do the 906's as I've heard they are better. As far as the condensers, I had a friend who recommended the AT4041's but they are way out of my price range, they're mainly going to be used for drumkits anyways, most bluegrass shows will be done by a buddy with his set of 4041's. I will check out the SM86 though.
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Main reason for the Beta 58a is for riders, since I do work with a larger company that calls me on occasion. I like using my OM3's where I can, and they work for just about anything, but everyone around here uses Beta 58's or SM58's. I forgot about the 609's as well, but I had meant to do the 906's as I've heard they are better. As far as the condensers, I had a friend who recommended the AT4041's but they are way out of my price range, they're mainly going to be used for drumkits anyways, most bluegrass shows will be done by a buddy with his set of 4041's. I will check out the SM86 though.
We get requests for Beta58 also. We own a few (whereas we own dozens of SM58). I'm trying to think of a show where a lack of Beta58s were a problem.
Folks that want a particular mic will put it on the rider; folks that MUST have a particular mic (meaning no show without it) will bring it with them... or we'll hire it/them in and add it to the bill.