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Title: Benefit shows
Post by: Mike Sullivan on January 12, 2014, 02:12:09 PM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 12, 2014, 02:24:35 PM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...

No freebies.  It's not fair to your other customers.  And it can cause some problems at tax time.

Charge everyone the same rate for the same service.  This is for your business.  What you do as a person independent from your business is up to you.  Make no promises on rebates, discounts, etc.

Do not be a well-meaning scab.  Do not fall for sob stories and "good causes".  Treat all your clients fairly and equally... if you expect to keep them.

Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Branko Pucekovic on January 12, 2014, 02:36:44 PM
No freebies.  It's not fair to your other customers.  And it can cause some problems at tax time.

Charge everyone the same rate for the same service.  This is for your business.  What you do as a person independent from your business is up to you.  Make no promises on rebates, discounts, etc.

Do not be a well-meaning scab.  Do not fall for sob stories and "good causes".  Treat all your clients fairly and equally... if you expect to keep them.

+1
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 12, 2014, 02:52:57 PM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...

"We'll do benefits for free when someone starts holding benefit events for US."

"Discount for your charity event?  Sure, we'll match the discount the electric company gives you."

That may sound harsh, but one of the things I've learned over the years is that service businesses should think long & hard about giving away their source of revenue.  Habitat for Humanity is one of the NFPs I support.  Now what benefits them more, a "free" $200 speaker on stick rig for a ribbon cutting or me and my friends spending a weekend helping on a build?  Hint:  $200 doesn't build a house...

The major "national" charities like the American Cancer Society, the Susan G. Komen race... those are actually BIG BUSINESSES.  Not to diminish the needs of those whom they help, but they will continue to do their work whether or not they get a 50% discount or no discount at all.

Do not be suckered by emotional pleas.  Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has some kind of wretched image of dying kids, wasting adults, injured animals, old growth forests... but remember that at every turn you are being manipulated to do something you might not otherwise do:  support a charity you have no direct interest in supporting.

Here's the test:  how much money would you donate to whatever charity is soliciting your services?  None? $100?  $1000?  Bid the gig at regular price.  If you are so inclined, send them a donation.

Also this comes up about once a year or so; there are probably a dozen threads about charity events.  I suggest a search of the forums.

ps.  For all the reasons Dick Rees mentions, too.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 12, 2014, 03:22:00 PM
I did a couple of "benefit" shows back when I was in the rental business.

The only thing i got out of it was a call next year wanting more gear for the same price-free.

I agree with the others.

Now if  EVERYBODY-and that means EVERYBODY-including the people for the organization are doing it for free (ie nobody getting a salary etc) is doing for free (porta potties-artists etc) it "might" be a consideration.

Why should others get paid and not you?  What makes them better than you?

The sound guys are usually among the first to get there and the last to leave-and this does not count loading/unloading the trucks at the shop.

It IS a valued service and the quality of which is critical to the success (in most cases).
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: frank kayser on January 12, 2014, 04:25:44 PM
Man, you three are HARD cases.  However, Dick makes very salient points, Tim and Ivan supporting and adding even more logic into the equation.

I've always been a sucker for those "puppy dog eyes", which means really, I'm just a plain old all day sucker.

Thanks guys.  Gotta get my mind right.

frank
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 12, 2014, 05:29:26 PM
Man, you three are HARD cases.  However, Dick makes very salient points, Tim and Ivan supporting and adding even more logic into the equation.

I've always been a sucker for those "puppy dog eyes", which means really, I'm just a plain old all day sucker.

Thanks guys.  Gotta get my mind right.

frank

Frank, there are lots of worthy causes out there.  As a manager my job is to make money for my employer.  If he wants to pay his crew and not bill the charity client that's his business... but then it comes back to "do I support this charity enough to send them cash money?"  If the answer is no, then they probably will get a full price bid.

There are other factors, too, like how any possible tax deduction is taken.  It's very difficult to deduct donations of in-kind services.  A car dealer who donates a vehicle for a raffle, or businesses that donate goods for auctions, have documentation as to the value of the GOODS.  The IRS doesn't like self-appraised values of "service" simply because too many folks have lied about value (and it's difficult to document what the worth really is).  If you want to support a charity and provide the service at no charge, invoice the charity for whatever amount you agree to, have them pay you, and then cut a separate cheque for that amount as your donation.  Your accountant will appreciate this...
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Ivan Beaver on January 12, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
Man, you three are HARD cases.  However, Dick makes very salient points, Tim and Ivan supporting and adding even more logic into the equation.

I've always been a sucker for those "puppy dog eyes", which means really, I'm just a plain old all day sucker.

Thanks guys.  Gotta get my mind right.

frank
Think of it this way.  Lets say the gig is on Saturday.

So you do it for "free".  So are you paying your help?  What about the gas and truck expenses?  The truck gets wear and tear (along with the gear) even if the gas is paid for.

But it costs even more.  Because your system and you are tied up-you cannot take another paying gig.

So you are losing money is direct costs just doing the gig-and losing money because the gear is out on a paying gig.

Just something to consider.

Yes I have done my fair share of "freebees" and some of them were supposed to be paying gigs-I just got stiffed on them :(
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Steve Oldridge on January 12, 2014, 07:32:46 PM
Frank, there are lots of worthy causes out there.
.
.
 If you want to support a charity and provide the service at no charge, invoice the charity for whatever amount you agree to, have them pay you, and then cut a separate cheque for that amount as your donation.  Your accountant will appreciate this...
Yup, been down that road once or twice.. and I'm a weekend warrior. I've done work for charities, but they pay for it, much like they pay for other stuff at these events. Various bands I've been in have also been paid.. it's a job. It doesn't matter that it's a charity.. bu there are those who contact you hoping to "melt your heart", and unfortunately there are many who will take those kinds of gigs, but I learnt my lessons on these types of gigs long ago. Sorry.. but no pay, no play.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Tomm Williams on January 12, 2014, 07:51:16 PM
I do occasional freebies for ACS as cancer has had its toll on several friends and family members. It's personal to me so I don't mind. However, I don't bring any more equipment than what I can handle myself. Unlike some other opinions here, I do believe this has been a benefit to my business.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Mike Sullivan on January 12, 2014, 08:52:16 PM
Thanks for the replies all.  I just wanted some insight on everyone's opinions.  At least I'm not the only cold hearted asshole in here  :P In all seriousness though, I told them how much I usually charge for the amt of bands, then told them how much I would discount it for them, and they had the nerve to ask me to do it for free..

OTOH, they got what they paid for from what I saw.  Cheap lights, pretty good amount of distortion from what I could hear, and hopefully they raised some $$.  The way I see it, IMHO, every benefit that I have been asked to do that was asked to do for "free" was not a complete success.  The ones that I did get paid for, ended up having a huge turnout and lots of support.  Not all of them are the same though.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Mike Maly on January 13, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
I side with everyone who has posted on this. When a charity event asks me for audio I cringe. The sad part is the high number of bottom feeders in the market that will do it for free that end up making a bad rap for us that won't. I usually stick to my guns for price and if they go with us, we do it, and do the best job we can hoping they see/feel the added value. This is a tough subject...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Rob Gow on January 13, 2014, 03:02:34 AM
I've passed on freebies, the only freebie ill do is the odd open mic at the church my mom goes to. It's for my mom. <3

Other than that, I've given a $200 discount in the past. I was asked to provide a freebie for an all candidates forum for the last provincial election. I told them well, here's how it went down....

(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/cc472c7b.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/1EF5B217-603A-40C8-8C76-76BADE0A310B-26186-000012D07B672B8E_zps0693c888.jpg)

My reply:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/2bc3d072.jpg)

Them:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/18abc670.jpg)

Me:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/06731ebc.jpg)

Them:
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/5a00d539.jpg)

The thing was, this was on a Monday. The night before, I had done a paying gig, and I left at the end because I had to work on Monday morning. My plan was to go back to the venue after I finished my day job at 5:30, tear down and load out. Doing the Q&A meant I wouldn't get to the venue until after 9pm. Not bad if there's an extra $300 - $400 in the pocket, but for free? Sorry, I'm just not that interested.

THEN they have the balls to say they'd like to have sound check done at 6, rolling by 6:30. I'd be a little hard pressed to get it up and running by 6. I could do a quick line check and be rolling by 6:30. I know they guys they did end up getting. From what I heard they didn't do a very good job, lots of feedback etc. they also didn't get a penny, nor anything like a couple cups of coffee and a sandwich, nothing. They ended up a little miffed about it.

But yeah, I'm beyond flat out freebies, I'm sorry but there's a value to what I do and provide. We want this, we want that, sorry sparky, gonna have to cool your jets and realize it is what it is. I can only do so much, but I'm not going to leave my day job early for a freebie. I was floored, blown away that with a provincial election, and millions of dollars being thrown around there was zero budget for this. Have each candidate kick in $200 to put towards production, video, sound, MC, etc.

Blown away.

Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: alan hamilton on January 13, 2014, 05:53:39 AM
No freebies.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Gary Green on January 13, 2014, 08:26:21 AM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...
Mike,
The policy I came up with for my self is:
The gear doesn't know or care about the cause so the gear gets paid for. I don't ask my labor to work for free.
I, on the other hand, may mix for free or a discount….That is the best I can offer.
As a musician, I might show up and play for free so I treat "mixing" the same way.
The only exceptions to this may come where I hand off a powered head and a couple speakers for announcements duty to a friend involved and I get public sponsorship credit or such. And even this isn't done lightly.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Tomm Williams on January 13, 2014, 09:45:54 AM
I side with everyone who has posted on this. When a charity event asks me for audio I cringe. The sad part is the high number of bottom feeders in the market that will do it for free that end up making a bad rap for us that won't. I usually stick to my guns for price and if they go with us, we do it, and do the best job we can hoping they see/feel the added value. This is a tough subject...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Count me as one who does it who is not a "bottom feeder"
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Jordan Wolf on January 13, 2014, 11:24:54 AM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...
Never for free...cover your overhead costs first, otherwise you'll go out of business rather quickly (especially important if your gear isn't all paid off).

If, after the event is over and you've been treated like a human being by the organizers and attendees, you feel the urge to donate, by all means: cut them a check for the leftover amount.  You don't make a profit, but you cover your gear and your crew.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 13, 2014, 01:01:50 PM
I do occasional freebies for ACS as cancer has had its toll on several friends and family members. It's personal to me so I don't mind. However, I don't bring any more equipment than what I can handle myself. Unlike some other opinions here, I do believe this has been a benefit to my business.

I think this came up in an earlier version of the topic.

Having a personal connection to the 'cause' is enough justification to provide a service on whatever terms you want. :)
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: John Chiara on January 13, 2014, 03:12:25 PM
I think this came up in an earlier version of the topic.

Having a personal connection to the 'cause' is enough justification to provide a service on whatever terms you want. :)

I had a big local flood relief benefit that I agreed to through a 3rd party. I quoted them half what it would normally be because I knew the people and many of the people affected, plus I had unpaid interns for the day and needed to get hours on the books for them.
Like most non-event planners a lot of stuff gets messed up from power to scheduling, and my truck battery died first thing so I arrived an hour late. First 3 bands... Who I knew from a previous benefit that I got stiffed half my fee on a month earlier...were absolutely atrocious. Event manager was on my case al afternoon. All was well after the first 3 acts and the rest of the show sounded awesome even to me. 6 lab subs and flown SLS 960 arrays.
Bad security let an unauthorized band 'friend' backstage and halfway through the last set he spilled his beer into a boutique guitar amp and it went up in smoke!
Tear down was smooth. Next day I get an email saying they wanted to dock me because I arrived late and that I was rude to a band member.... Sone 50 something guitarist who stopped playing for. 25 years, now bought a digital amp and couldn't figure out how to program his preset volumes and was over powering the whole stage.
My first remark was...who else donated $1k to your event? The average donation was $6.
I got a check 2 weeks later for the full amount. Never again.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Bob Leonard on January 13, 2014, 03:29:17 PM
I do benefits for a reduced price as long as transportation is paid for and my crew / band mates are paid.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Bill Schnake on January 13, 2014, 03:37:10 PM

Having a personal connection to the 'cause' is enough justification to provide a service on whatever terms you want. :)

I'm with Tim on this one, no big surprise at that.  The personal connection makes a difference.  We do 3 freebies a year all because of a personal connection to the causes the events support.

Bill
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Patrick Tracy on January 13, 2014, 03:52:09 PM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...

"Get a corporate sponsor to cover the cost of production. Credit them in the posters, let them hang some banners or whatever. I have to buy gas, food, cables, gaff tape, batteries etc., and schedule some prep and recovery time (for me and the gear) during which I won't be making money on something else."
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 13, 2014, 04:00:09 PM
"Get a corporate sponsor to cover the cost of production."

Yupper.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Jason Lavoie on January 13, 2014, 04:59:01 PM
"Get a corporate sponsor to cover the cost of production. Credit them in the posters, let them hang some banners or whatever. I have to buy gas, food, cables, gaff tape, batteries etc., and schedule some prep and recovery time (for me and the gear) during which I won't be making money on something else."

YES!

however, the event planners who are smart enough to do this are the same ones who are smart enough not to even ask for free services.

When someone asks you to work for free simply because they didn't budget for it I find that insulting
If only I could pull that at the store.. "my TV broke and I'm out of money and the kids can't watch cartoons, can I have one for free? and can you deliver and install it for free too?.. no? but think of the kids!"

Jason
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on January 13, 2014, 05:32:06 PM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...

I'll donate any amount of gear/labour to any cause...

...if they donate an appropriate amount back into my "keep a roof over my kid's head" charity.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Mike Monte on January 13, 2014, 05:40:22 PM
YES!

however, the event planners who are smart enough to do this are the same ones who are smart enough not to even ask for free services.

When someone asks you to work for free simply because they didn't budget for it I find that insulting
If only I could pull that at the store.. "my TV broke and I'm out of money and the kids can't watch cartoons, can I have one for free? and can you deliver and install it for free too?.. no? but think of the kids!"

Jason

I think that I have posted a response that is similar to this one at another time:
Every year I am approached several times to donate my sound production for different causes....all of which are admirable. 
This past summer I was approached to donate my production services for a town-wide event at the waterfront.  "Everyone is donating their services, yada yada yada...."
I told them that I would gladly donate my time if someone (other than me) supplied the gear.  I gave the person-in-charge a list of gear (everything from racks/stacks to mics/cables, power cords, yes; everything) to procure and have delivered to the stage at 7:00am.  I would set it all up, tech the stage for the day/evening and pack it all up by 10:00pm for pickup.  I gave him a few rental houses to call.

The person-in-charge almost had a heart-attack when he found out how much the gear would be to rent/deliver/pick-up.
I was then asked how much it would cost to rent my gear = score!

I have no problem donating my time for a worthy cause but gear costs money...

Mike M
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Rob Spence on January 13, 2014, 06:31:46 PM
I do one freebie fundraiser each year. Same one. I do it because it is directly helping kids with challenges and is run by some of my oldest and dearest friends.

All else gets a quote.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Ray Aberle on January 14, 2014, 12:19:52 AM
I think that I have posted a response that is similar to this one at another time:
Every year I am approached several times to donate my sound production for different causes....all of which are admirable. 
This past summer I was approached to donate my production services for a town-wide event at the waterfront.  "Everyone is donating their services, yada yada yada...."
I told them that I would gladly donate my time if someone (other than me) supplied the gear.  I gave the person-in-charge a list of gear (everything from racks/stacks to mics/cables, power cords, yes; everything) to procure and have delivered to the stage at 7:00am.  I would set it all up, tech the stage for the day/evening and pack it all up by 10:00pm for pickup.  I gave him a few rental houses to call.

The person-in-charge almost had a heart-attack when he found out how much the gear would be to rent/deliver/pick-up.
I was then asked how much it would cost to rent my gear = score!

I have no problem donating my time for a worthy cause but gear costs money...

Mike M
This is a super smart way to handle it. I have had the problem (?) over the past few years where I have provided a varying level of "community sponsorship discount" on the gear rental, and now that my business is growing, and I (finally!!) need to start paying the bills with this (left the day job for good yesterday, woo hoo!), I am trying to slowly weed those discounts out. One client I did last year, since it was their first time working with a pro production company, I gave them this year's CS discount last year, to help soften the blow. Now this year's invoice is $600 more then last years. Haha.

I have a lot of events that are looking for reduced rates, and as a lot of other people have pointed out, the other vendors involved are getting paid, why should I be the exception? The trick is to work with the client, and help them to recognize the value of production services. There's a big difference, after all, between JoeSchmoDJ with his EON15s and my flown VRX rig with LS9... I had the CEO of one company (Arthritis Foundation) look at what we were providing (2 VRX per side flown on truss/ST180 lifts, 2 VRX918s per side, plus a generator, cable ramps, good wireless, etc) versus what he was used to (Aforementioned DJs with cute little speakers on stands) and totally got it, that the increased rate was worth it.

The key is getting the clients/organizers to realise a) the service needs to be paid for and b) a great sound/lighting/video/etc setup is going to bring them more money in the future as their participants/vendors/sponsors see them as a much "bigger deal" then they are with cute-lil-dj playing his tunes.

Edjumacation.

-Ray
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Tom Roche on January 14, 2014, 01:53:44 AM
I won't work for free.  Been there and done that ... about 4 years worth doing benefit shows, CD release parties, comedy troupes, and even prominent Contemporary Christian touring acts.  All uncompensated.  It served a purpose for a period in my life, but my time is too valuable now.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Lyle Williams on January 14, 2014, 04:00:39 AM
Seeing 500 people listening to a couple of speakers on sticks is not as sad as seeing 20 people in front of a monster array.  Sometimes people get sold too much rig for a gig, and then benefit of the benefit evaporates.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: frank kayser on January 14, 2014, 12:05:53 PM
I think that I have posted a response that is similar to this one at another time:
Every year I am approached several times to donate my sound production for different causes....all of which are admirable. 
This past summer I was approached to donate my production services for a town-wide event at the waterfront.  "Everyone is donating their services, yada yada yada...."
I told them that I would gladly donate my time if someone (other than me) supplied the gear.  I gave the person-in-charge a list of gear (everything from racks/stacks to mics/cables, power cords, yes; everything) to procure and have delivered to the stage at 7:00am.  I would set it all up, tech the stage for the day/evening and pack it all up by 10:00pm for pickup.  I gave him a few rental houses to call.

The person-in-charge almost had a heart-attack when he found out how much the gear would be to rent/deliver/pick-up.
I was then asked how much it would cost to rent my gear = score!

I have no problem donating my time for a worthy cause but gear costs money...

Mike M

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 14, 2014, 01:32:33 PM
Seeing 500 people listening to a couple of speakers on sticks is not as sad as seeing 20 people in front of a monster array.  Sometimes people get sold too much rig for a gig, and then benefit of the benefit evaporates.

Most often we get and keep our NFP business because we understand they need to raise money.  Sure, our services are an expense, but even without a production sponsor our clients raise more and clear more after expenses because intelligible audio makes it easier for supporters to give.   One university scholarship fundraiser told us we made them $40,000 more, the very first year we came in.  :)


We design systems according to what clients tell us.  Some of them are clearly delusional, some not so clearly. ;)

But when a client says "we need to cover about 3,000 folks in an area of X size", we design accordingly.  If only 300 people show up, that's not on us as we didn't oversell - we met their stated need as they saw it.  We'll downsize next year, if it's indicated, and that can help their budget.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Lyle Williams on January 14, 2014, 03:14:40 PM
We design systems according to what clients tell us.  Some of them are clearly delusional, some not so clearly. ;)

:-)   If only they were more clearly labelled, life would be so much easier.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: James A. Griffin on January 14, 2014, 04:27:50 PM
No freebies.  It's not fair to your other customers.  And it can cause some problems at tax time.

Charge everyone the same rate for the same service.  This is for your business.  What you do as a person independent from your business is up to you.  Make no promises on rebates, discounts, etc.

Do not be a well-meaning scab.  Do not fall for sob stories and "good causes".  Treat all your clients fairly and equally... if you expect to keep them.

+1   Not to mention that a lot of those folks asking us for favors drive newer cars and live in better houses than we do.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Josh Millward on January 14, 2014, 07:33:44 PM
Hey man, the show is always "free"!!!

It is the trucking it to the show, setting it up, tearing it down, trucking back to the warehouse, paying for the warehouse, paying for the various insurance products, and paying the help that is not "free".
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: John Moore on January 14, 2014, 08:54:59 PM
Agreed....no freebie....we did some years past and word gets out and the next thing you know, everyone wants a freebie...we have a set minimum even for paid events...better for me to keep the gear in the warehouse than have to make a donation with equipment and labor...fuel, insurance, etc.

They have to realize the value of the service you provide...once you tell them you have to bring in $10,000 worth of equipment and that has to be paid for somehow...most of the time, not always the light bulb goes on..but some still don't get it...

I seriously doubt if they were in our shoes they would do it for free....

We did a free open house at the local airport, stage system, etc. and at the end of the event they had the nerve to complain that people out on the tarmac could not hear the announcements....my thoughts were piss off man we did this for free...well...that was the end of free events...
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Patrick Tracy on January 14, 2014, 10:03:38 PM
We did a free open house at the local airport, stage system, etc. and at the end of the event they had the nerve to complain that people out on the tarmac could not hear the announcements....my thoughts were piss off man we did this for free...well...that was the end of free events...

I would have offered a refund.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Mike Sullivan on January 16, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
At least we're all on the same page.  I've seen some of these things happen, hence why I didn't choose to do it.  I offered to do it at a reduced price, but they asked me to pretty much do it for free, I threw that premise out the window.  Oh well, Was worth a try.  Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 16, 2014, 01:12:18 PM
We did a free open house at the local airport, stage system, etc. and at the end of the event they had the nerve to complain that people out on the tarmac could not hear the announcements....my thoughts were piss off man we did this for free...well...that was the end of free events...

Of course they neglected to tell you that they wanted coverage in a whole 'nother area.  It's common for amateur presenters to wait until you're all set up and running show as a one-man crew to come up and inform you that they need more speakers "outside the tent" or "on the street so that people will know there's a show inside".

"OK, you stay here and run show while I dig into the trailer for a small generator, a couple of powered speakers and 400' of XLR cables.  I'll have it all set up and running in a half an hour." 
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: James A. Griffin on January 16, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Of course they neglected to tell you that they wanted coverage in a whole 'nother area.  It's common for amateur presenters to wait until you're all set up and running show as a one-man crew to come up and inform you that they need more speakers "outside the tent" or "on the street so that people will know there's a show inside".


Or put another way... people asking for free don't really know what they want, what it cost, or what it takes for you to get the job done.    All they know is that want some kind of sound and that they can't or don't want to pay for it.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Ray Aberle on January 16, 2014, 02:13:37 PM
Or put another way... people asking for free don't really know what they want, what it cost, or what it takes for you to get the job done.    All they know is that want some kind of sound and that they can't or don't want to pay for it.
Or, more commonly....

"We need a microphone."

"Well, what system are you going to plug it into?"

"Oh, we don't need some big fancy system, we just need a microphone to make announcements."

Here ya go... *one SM58*
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 16, 2014, 02:18:02 PM
Or, more commonly....

"We need a microphone."

"Well, what system are you going to plug it into?"

"Oh, we don't need some big fancy system, we just need a microphone to make announcements."

Here ya go... *one SM58*

Not the first time I've told this tale:

The head of the entertainment committee/MC asked me not once, not twice, but three times a day for wireless mic so he could go to the opposite end of the festival grounds and make announcements from there so the folks at that end could hear him...even though the sound still came out the mains at the stage.

Uff da!!!
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Robert Piascik on January 16, 2014, 04:02:18 PM
Not the first time I've told this tale:

The head of the entertainment committee/MC asked me not once, not twice, but three times a day for wireless mic so he could go to the opposite end of the festival grounds and make announcements from there so the folks at that end could hear him...even though the sound still came out the mains at the stage.

Uff da!!!

Yep
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Ray Aberle on January 16, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
Not the first time I've told this tale:

The head of the entertainment committee/MC asked me not once, not twice, but three times a day for wireless mic so he could go to the opposite end of the festival grounds and make announcements from there so the folks at that end could hear him...even though the sound still came out the mains at the stage.

Uff da!!!
... you mean the microphone doesn't just amplify the sound by itself? I need something else too?!? That's what I've been doing wrong..............

-Ray
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 16, 2014, 05:21:39 PM
... you mean the microphone doesn't just amplify the sound by itself? I need something else too?!? That's what I've been doing wrong..............

-Ray

Here you go, Ray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4ny7KivzA
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Ray Aberle on January 16, 2014, 07:08:21 PM
Here you go, Ray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4ny7KivzA
Oh yay! I'm gonna buy two or three, cos I think they're gonna make good christmas gifts!
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Lee Douglas on January 16, 2014, 11:24:40 PM
At least we're all on the same page. 

I'm running up against something similar from the performance side.  I play with a group who for the last couple of years has agreed to perform at a benefit for a well known charity at a local casino.  We agreed to to it for no cost to the charity because it is an early in the season knock the dust off gig after a quiet winter, it's a good cause and production was being provided by the casino and underwritten by a third party.  Great, all I have to do is provide a current input list and stage plot and all we have to do is show up and play.  I get a call this year that they don't have an sponsor for the production this year.  They'll cover it this year, but want to know if we can bring production in next year.  They're gonna squirm when I quote a price that $500 more than the casino charges because not only do I have to bring in sufficient production to cover the same room, I also have to transport it back and forth from my place along with all the other overhead that still happens when I use my systems.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Rob Gow on January 17, 2014, 12:45:28 AM
I'm running up against something similar from the performance side.  I play with a group who for the last couple of years has agreed to perform at a benefit for a well known charity at a local casino.  We agreed to to it for no cost to the charity because it is an early in the season knock the dust off gig after a quiet winter, it's a good cause and production was being provided by the casino and underwritten by a third party.  Great, all I have to do is provide a current input list and stage plot and all we have to do is show up and play.  I get a call this year that they don't have an sponsor for the production this year.  They'll cover it this year, but want to know if we can bring production in next year.  They're gonna squirm when I quote a price that $500 more than the casino charges because not only do I have to bring in sufficient production to cover the same room, I also have to transport it back and forth from my place along with all the other overhead that still happens when I use my systems.

A year should be plenty of time for them to find a sponsorship, for next year.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Lyle Williams on January 17, 2014, 02:01:05 AM
$500 isn't serious money for a casino.  Helping out charities makes them look good.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Ray Aberle on January 17, 2014, 11:39:12 AM
A year should be plenty of time for them to find a sponsorship, for next year.

Exactly! Or, since, I don't know, they were providing production anyways--- they should quickly figure out that it will be cheaper for them to just continue the arrangement and take the cost themselves.

-Ray
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: frank kayser on January 17, 2014, 01:20:26 PM
$500 isn't serious money for a casino.  Helping out charities makes them look good.
That was $500 MORE than the casino charges...
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Doug Hammel on January 17, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
How do you all approach a request for sound for a benefit show?  Do you offer them a deal, do you ask for price with some of it going back to the benefit, etc.  Just looking at tips for when you're asked, especially when they ask you to do it for free...

It may have already been said, but when they do these shows especially the big ones, they say "all proceeds go to X charity". That means after everyone gets paid whatever is remaining goes to the charity. If you want to provide a discount that is your decision to make. Remember you are providing a professional service that they do not otherwise have available to them. It is just business.
Title: Re: Benefit shows
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 18, 2014, 03:05:38 PM
I decided early on not to do "charity" shows. The people who run the charity get paid so should I.
Maybe I'm hard hearted but I need to pay the bills.
The only free even I ever did was the funeral reception for a friend.
Oh yes, and the gig where the band stiffed me for my pay!