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Title: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Scott Stephens on March 20, 2014, 07:25:29 PM
  A couple of years ago, I went to the local music store and looked into the "bargin bin" and came out with a 12 ft Pro Link Jazz guitar  blah, blah, blah cable for $5.00.
  Today, I looked at that cable and it has an arrow with the words "signal flow" pointing to one end. Gee, imagine my surprise when I realized signal only travels in copper one direction.
  If that's true, I've wasted the last 25 years of my life.
Have a good one guys
scott


Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Ray Aberle on March 20, 2014, 07:40:41 PM
  A couple of years ago, I went to the local music store and looked into the "bargin bin" and came out with a 12 ft Pro Link Jazz guitar  blah, blah, blah cable for $5.00.
  Today, I looked at that cable and it has an arrow with the words "signal flow" pointing to one end. Gee, imagine my surprise when I realized signal only travels in copper one direction.
  If that's true, I've wasted the last 25 years of my life.
Have a good one guys
scott
Many's a time I have fixed an entire multi-million dollar sound system by swapping a bi-directional speaker cable for a unidirectional one! The ability for signal to flow the other direction interferes with your program material, what with the "bounce back" to the amp.

-Ray
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Mike Sokol on March 20, 2014, 08:11:52 PM
Many's a time I have fixed an entire multi-million dollar sound system by swapping a bi-directional speaker cable for a unidirectional one! The ability for signal to flow the other direction interferes with your program material, what with the "bounce back" to the amp.

-Ray

Remember to consider gravity flow as well. Make sure the arrow isn't pointing uphill.  ???
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: frank kayser on March 20, 2014, 10:01:50 PM
do one way cables prevent feedback?  Or do we need one-way air on the stage?
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Ray Aberle on March 20, 2014, 10:03:51 PM
Remember to consider gravity flow as well. Make sure the arrow isn't pointing uphill.  ???
I make my own anti-gravity cables at home.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 20, 2014, 10:29:53 PM
Shhh some people believe that sh__.

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: JoeHenson on March 21, 2014, 01:20:56 AM
This thread reminds me...I was making a pass through Guitar Center this past weekend while having a glance around and I specifically heard an employee in the "Live Sound" department tell a customer that their (Guitar Center's) Mogami speaker cable will give the customer 6dB of gain just by upgrading to that specific cable.  Whew....
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 21, 2014, 02:47:37 AM
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Mike Sokol on March 21, 2014, 07:43:51 AM
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/

My hero  ;D
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jason Tubbs on March 21, 2014, 04:23:13 PM
do one way cables prevent feedback?  Or do we need one-way air on the stage?

A few strategically placed box fans will do the trick.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Mike Sokol on March 21, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
A few strategically placed box fans will do the trick.

What about solar wind? Do you face into the sun or have your back to the sun for best fidelity? I hate getting electrons clogged up in the cable.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 21, 2014, 09:27:28 PM
This thread reminds me...I was making a pass through Guitar Center this past weekend while having a glance around and I specifically heard an employee in the "Live Sound" department tell a customer that their (Guitar Center's) Mogami speaker cable will give the customer 6dB of gain just by upgrading to that specific cable.  Whew....
I would love to see him prove it in a side by side. 

UNLESS he is using REALLY small wire  to be compared against.

There are lies and then there are DAMN lies
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Ray Aberle on March 22, 2014, 12:02:03 PM
This thread reminds me...I was making a pass through Guitar Center this past weekend while having a glance around and I specifically heard an employee in the "Live Sound" department tell a customer that their (Guitar Center's) Mogami speaker cable will give the customer 6dB of gain just by upgrading to that specific cable.  Whew....

Well, unfortunately, this is a common occurrence at GC. Yes, you can often find a highly knowledgeable employee there-- but more often then not they're so jaded and disgruntled at the corporate atmosphere that pushes for total gross sales (and no returns!) that they'll say whatever they have to say to get-er-done.

I would love to see him prove it in a side by side. 

UNLESS he is using REALLY small wire  to be compared against.

There are lies and then there are DAMN lies

And no way for the customer to disprove it... they're counting on getting straightforward advice from the employee, and if they don't know any better... *sighs*

This may be contributing to GC's decline in sales numbers. Just saying...
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 22, 2014, 12:07:02 PM
I would love to see him prove it in a side by side. 

UNLESS he is using REALLY small wire  to be compared against.

There are lies and then there are DAMN lies

I can imagine a hypothetical where say a TRS cable delivers 6dB more level than a TS cable with certain quasi-balanced sources and differential inputs. The salesman may have been inarticulate at describing such a scenario, or is just a dumbass and did not understand the mechanism, or is lying.

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Patrick Tracy on March 22, 2014, 12:58:24 PM
I can imagine a hypothetical where say a TRS cable delivers 6dB more level than a TS cable with certain quasi-balanced sources and differential inputs.

Except it was for a speaker cable.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 22, 2014, 01:02:11 PM
Except it was for a speaker cable.

That does make it less plausible.  :-[

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeremy McNichol on March 22, 2014, 02:21:40 PM
I also belong to audiokarma forum and believe me the amount of voodoo b.s. flying around the hi-fi forums is staggering. "Subjective" is just a rotten all around word in audio.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 22, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
well your cable with that arrow that shows signal flow is for real BUT you MUST be wearing an ARROW brand shirt for the cable to work properly. wearing any other brand of shirt including a Van Husen will cause the electronic style electrons to roam confused and the signal will be harmonically distorted. as for a heavy metal guitar cable you must be wearing leather and denim or the whole thing will blow. and if you dont understand this take a look at the captains log.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 22, 2014, 04:26:41 PM
I also belong to audiokarma forum and believe me the amount of voodoo b.s. flying around the hi-fi forums is staggering. "Subjective" is just a rotten all around word in audio.
You don't need to tell me... I tried to make and sell hifi gear back in the '70s/80s but was ultimately frustrated by the lack of correlation between good performance and good sales. It was world dominated by BS.

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 22, 2014, 05:55:33 PM
The car audio guys have equally nonsensical things... such as the gold plated battery connectors.  Perfect for connecting to lead battery terminals!


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Mike Sokol on March 22, 2014, 07:19:39 PM
You don't need to tell me... I tried to make and sell hifi gear back in the '70s/80s but was ultimately frustrated by the lack of correlation between good performance and good sales. It was world dominated by BS.

JR

That's because you didn't know how to properly motivate the electrons to flow in the center of the conductor via a magnetic field. See below for "Magnetic Conduction" cable hype.  ;D

What is Magnetic Conduction?
Magnetic Conduction is a patented method for signal transfer. The technology was developed by Magnetic Innovations LLC. As implemented by High Fidelity Cables it uniquely offers a magnetic as well as electrically conductive pathway for signal transfer. This technology operates in several ways:

Creating Magnetic Force in the Conductor
To appreciate the impact of Magnetic Conduction technology, it is important to understand that an electrical signal is always accompanied by a magnetic field. It is the use of the magnetic element of signal transfer that makes the CT-1 fundamentally different as a conductor technology. Magnetic Conduction maximizes the magnetic as well as the electrical force.

An electrical signal is strongly motivated to follow a magnetic field, as demonstrated by experiments in which electricity/plasma is attracted or repelled by magnetic fields. Our “Magnetic Mapping” process is used to “align” magnetic poles at each end of the cable in a proprietary and directed way so as to “draw” the electrical signal through the conductor. In effect, we use magnetism to keep the electrical signal flow aligned and to minimize the random pathways for electrons within and along the conductor. In the CT-1, the entire cable is directionally magnetized to promote signal transfer where resistance to the signal is highest and where the greatest losses can take place.

Pre-Applying Magnetic Force to the Input Connector
In the Magnetic Conduction process, we minimize signal distortion, particularly in lower level signals that may otherwise be distorted as a result of resistance in the transfer. By ‘pre-applying’ a magnetic field to the signal cable, Magnetic Conduction preserves the energy that an electrical signal otherwise loses when electrons jump from one ionic core to another, i.e., from a component’s output connector to an interconnects male input connector. This results in more faithful transmission of low-level signal elements.

Enhancing Signal Flow
The PinLok CT-1 connector uses magnetic force to focus the signal into the center of the connector and transfer that signal into the CT-1 conductor. The CT-1 conductor is made from highly permeable alloy that, once attached to the connectors, becomes fully magnetized. The signal then follows this magnetically and electrically conductive pathway. This pathway is magnetically active, as the PinLok RCA at the exit end of the conductor is magnetically “pulling” the signal through the conductor. The magnetic field applied at the input and output connectors controls eddy currents, forcing electrical signals to ‘flow’ in only one direction -- along the magnetic field through the conductor from source to termination. This allows us to use an entirely metallic connector that minimizes eddy currents, improving signal flow.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on March 22, 2014, 08:23:30 PM
Let me guess the composition of the "highly permeable alloy" is a trade secret?  It would appear that they have managed to discover "negative resistance"-which should prove very useful in power transmsion as well!
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jay Barracato on March 22, 2014, 08:35:32 PM
So call up one of their marketing "engineers" and ask them to explain impedance.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Mike Sokol on March 22, 2014, 08:53:23 PM
So call up one of their marketing "engineers" and ask them to explain impedance.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Ummmm.... Also how waveguides work at audio frequencies.

The CT-1Us’ connectors have “rare earth” magnets and use an even stronger magnetic center pin that is also pure nickel. Both Neutral Chem and Stabilant 22 are used in the Ultimate connectors. The conductor material itself used in Enhanced and Ultimate Transmission lines is of higher magnetic permeability. The CT-1Us use the “wave guides” in both the speaker and interconnect cables. They are chrome tubes with black caps on the ends with the cabling extended through them on the two top HFCs. The Ultimate speaker cables have sixteen inch “wave-guides.”
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Geri O'Neil on March 22, 2014, 10:58:00 PM
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/


Steve.

Thanx for posting this, Steve. I had seen it a few years ago, but lost track of it. I regret the few dollars that I spent on Monster cables before I found out what jerks they were.

Geri O
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on March 23, 2014, 01:35:50 AM
Today, I looked at that cable and it has an arrow with the words "signal flow" pointing to one end. Gee, imagine my surprise when I realized signal only travels in copper one direction.

To be fair, SOME cables have a pushbutton mute switch in one of the connectors to allow the guitarist to unplug without depending on the FOH engineer to mute the channel first. In that case, having the arrows to remind the guitarist which end to plug in where is probably a good thing.

This post reminds me of the "digital ready" headphones (which plug into an analog headphone jack) I see in the local big box stores.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 23, 2014, 04:22:29 AM
This post reminds me of the "digital ready" headphones (which plug into an analog headphone jack) I see in the local big box stores.

They arrived in stores at the same time as the compact disc became available.


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 23, 2014, 04:26:53 AM
They arrived in stores at the same time as the compact disc became available.


Steve.
along with square cone "digital speakers".
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: frank kayser on March 23, 2014, 12:46:07 PM
To be fair, SOME cables have a pushbutton mute switch in one of the connectors to allow the guitarist to unplug without depending on the FOH engineer to mute the channel first. In that case, having the arrows to remind the guitarist which end to plug in where is probably a good thing.
Some know their equipment - some need reminders (gawd)  I'll bet the one needing the arrows unplug hot anyway...
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 23, 2014, 01:20:10 PM
I wrote a magazine column back in the '80s called audio mythology where I debunked the myths du jour, or tried to. Many of them are still kicking around decades later,  which is why I don't like to repeat them even in humor, without bold "THIS IS WRONG" disclaimers. In the course of writing my old column I often bound some small tiny basis or truth behind the big lies.

The directional cable has an explanation for asymmetrical interfaces where the outer shield may only be connected on one end, while I'm not real sure which direction the arrow should point(perhaps toward the lower impedance ground).

I do not find ignorance funny and these snake oil companies are kept alive by consumer ignorance.

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on March 23, 2014, 03:19:15 PM
In fairness, is the arrow really any different than marking parallel jacks on speakers, "in" and "out" as I have seen many times from different manufacturers?
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 23, 2014, 03:36:39 PM
In fairness, is the arrow really any different than marking parallel jacks on speakers, "in" and "out" as I have seen many times from different manufacturers?

An "in" and "out" 1/4" jack on passive speakers could be two different current handling jacks. Since the input is carrying 2x the current as the output jack. At Peavey we had a dual-tip contact high current 1/4" jack and then normal single tip jacks. I could hypothetically imagine using a high current jack for the input side and lower current on the output side, while I concede this is a stretch. I'd use the high current jack for both.

Another subtle difference inside the loudspeaker there is a wire or PCB trace between the two jacks, and then the speaker connects to one jack or the other. Labeling one jack the input, and connecting the internal speaker load to that jack, reduces the current flowing in the wire link feeding the output jack.

So there can be actual differences. It will still work if you plug it up backwards, but the internal link wire is carrying 2x the current. 

JR

Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Patrick Tracy on March 24, 2014, 12:09:15 AM
In fairness, is the arrow really any different than marking parallel jacks on speakers, "in" and "out" as I have seen many times from different manufacturers?

That's so somebody doesn't connect two amplifiers to the parallel jacks.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on March 24, 2014, 01:22:08 AM
That's so somebody doesn't connect two amplifiers to the parallel jacks.
With the aforementioned instrument cable. (Maybe they'd at least get the arrows in the right direction.)
Title: More Snake-Oil Sales Tactics
Post by: Russ Davis on March 24, 2014, 01:42:46 PM
Two quick examples of snake-oil salesmanship from decades past:

1. "Digital-ready" home speaker cables in the '80's.

2.  For many years, Radio Shack sold spray cans of "TV Tuner Cleaner" for something like $3.99, but for a few bucks more you could buy "COLOR TV Tuner Cleaner".
Title: Re: More Snake-Oil Sales Tactics
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 24, 2014, 01:57:13 PM
Two quick examples of snake-oil salesmanship from decades past:

1. "Digital-ready" home speaker cables in the '80's.

2.  For many years, Radio Shack sold spray cans of "TV Tuner Cleaner" for something like $3.99, but for a few bucks more you could buy "COLOR TV Tuner Cleaner".

Just like spam, they wouldn't try to sell this crap if idiots didn't buy it.

JR

PS: Speaking of spam... any financial aide to the Ukraine should be linked to policing the web hackers there. That could almost pay for itself.   
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 24, 2014, 05:00:51 PM
once upon a time i went looking for some rca plugs. Radio Shack didnt hav what i wanted so i stopped at the local "audiophile" store. the guy had the regular kind and also the special super contact type. the guy showed me the "super contact" type and the sleave that you slide over the round ground contact part that really clamps down and makes a great connection. i said thats all fine and good but theres nothing that spreads the hot pin out. i told him it worthless. i also told him if the company that made that had a center pin spreader it would probably spread the hot jack hole. (important note > the words "hot jack hole" are ment to describe the rca jack hole that the hot pin goes in and in no way is ment to describe other things that you might dream up.) the salesman understood what i was refering to. i bough the "regular" rca plugs. it would be nice to be able to find good quility all metal rca pulgs like those. all i see now either have a plastic cover or all metal ones with a thin flimsey ground thingy to solder the ground wire to. unless you have bought thousands of dollars of MIT music hose you have not ben hosed. www.mitcables.com 
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Mike Sokol on March 24, 2014, 10:45:50 PM
it would probably spread the hot jack hole. (important note > the words "hot jack hole" are meant to describe the rca jack hole that the hot pin goes in and in no way is meant to describe other things that you might dream up.

Too late...  ;D
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Tim Padrick on March 25, 2014, 12:30:59 AM
Try reversing the guitar cord and "see".  Dunno if 12' is long enough to hear a difference, but a 20 is, though still subtle.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 25, 2014, 03:35:17 AM
Try reversing the guitar cord and "see".  Dunno if 12' is long enough to hear a difference, but a 20 is, though still subtle.
maybe its a shielded 2 conductor with shield connected at one end.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 25, 2014, 03:48:24 AM
maybe its a shielded 2 conductor with shield connected at one end.

It will still sound the same the wrong way round - whatever wrong is!


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Len Zenith Jr on March 25, 2014, 05:04:26 AM
The car audio guys have equally nonsensical things... such as the gold plated battery connectors.  Perfect for connecting to lead battery terminals!


Steve.

That's to prevent corrosion of the brass terminals they use. They need to use brass rather than lead so that the screw threads have some strength. That and its under the hood, never seen a gear head plate a precious metal to an engine part to dress up the engine bay before?
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 25, 2014, 06:14:20 AM
That's to prevent corrosion of the brass terminals they use. They need to use brass rather than lead so that the screw threads have some strength.

Cars seem to manage to draw enough current from the battery to run a starter motor using lead terminals so I'm sure that's enough for car audio.  Although with some of the claims some car audio guys have for their output power, on a 12v system, it would draw more than a starter motor!

In the UK electronics store I saw the gold plated terminals sold, they were advertised as an improvement to sound quality.


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 25, 2014, 10:31:13 AM
It will still sound the same the wrong way round - whatever wrong is!


Steve.
Um no..... Imagine a worst case scenario phono cable attached between a phono cart and phono preamp but with the shield connected only on the cartridge end. The full noise current collected by the shield then gets dumped into the cartridge ground that then flows back through the signal ground conductor, corrupting the signal ground far worse than plugged up the alternate way.

Note: I am not defending the purveyors of such spoo, just pointing out that their may be a sliver of actual scientific basis behind some of them. Often this sliver of science does not justify the cost, and as often as not they use bogus science.

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 25, 2014, 12:30:24 PM
However, if it were a guitar cable, which end would you want the shield connected?  The source or the input?

Logic makes me think it should be the input... then I think it should be the guitar... then the input again!


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 25, 2014, 01:06:46 PM
However, if it were a guitar cable, which end would you want the shield connected?  The source or the input?

Logic makes me think it should be the input... then I think it should be the guitar... then the input again!


Steve.
I would want the shield grounded at the amp input, so noise current can be dumped into the chassis ground that should be bonded to the wall.

If the shield dumps noise current into the guitar, it's only path to earth is through the the signal ground lead back to the amp, corrupting the signal integrity. 

JR

Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 25, 2014, 02:23:01 PM
Input it is!


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Joseph D. Macry on March 26, 2014, 12:41:38 PM
Story from the producer of a Grammy-winning guitarist (who I won't name, but he is famous for being nit-picky about his "Tones"):
For today's tracking session, Famous Guitarist (FG) spends much of the day attaching pedals to a piece of plywood (screws & velcro); not happy with resulting tone. FG fiddles with changing out batteries, swapping patch cord directions, etc. Still not happy. Finally, FG removes everything from the board and turns the plywood around 180 degrees, then rebuilds all. Now he's happy and the session goes on.
Said the producer, "You just don't argue with success."
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 26, 2014, 01:11:46 PM
Story from the producer of a Grammy-winning guitarist (who I won't name, but he is famous for being nit-picky about his "Tones"):
For today's tracking session, Famous Guitarist (FG) spends much of the day attaching pedals to a piece of plywood (screws & velcro); not happy with resulting tone. FG fiddles with changing out batteries, swapping patch cord directions, etc. Still not happy. Finally, FG removes everything from the board and turns the plywood around 180 degrees, then rebuilds all. Now he's happy and the session goes on.
Said the producer, "You just don't argue with success."

You just don't argue with folks that have audio hallucinations and think they hear shit that plainly isn't there.  It's like trying to teach a pig to sing - it's a complete waste of time and very annoying to the pig.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 26, 2014, 02:03:17 PM
Guitarist Eric Johnson suggests that different makes of battery in his effects can alter the tone and he claims that he can tell the difference in tone between a lead with plain brass plugs and one with nickel plated plugs.


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 26, 2014, 02:20:04 PM
Guitarist Eric Johnson suggests that different makes of battery in his effects can alter the tone and he claims that he can tell the difference in tone between a lead with plain brass plugs and one with nickel plated plugs.


Steve.

Battery voltage can and does affect performance of unregulated simple circuits. Bad connections can always be audible while the short term effects of dissimilar metal contacts are not generally audible.

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve M Smith on March 26, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
Battery voltage can and does affect performance of unregulated simple circuits.

This was between different battery manufacturers rather than battery age.  It was in an interview in the UK magazine Guitarist.  December 1995 - The only reason I can remember that is because I was in that one too!


Steve.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on March 26, 2014, 02:45:23 PM
This was between different battery manufacturers rather than battery age.  It was in an interview in the UK magazine Guitarist.  December 1995 - The only reason I can remember that is because I was in that one too!


Steve.

So who said anything about age? Guess what...  9V batteries are not all exactly 9V when new... Even 9V batteries from the same brand are not all the same voltage. Then we see differences between rechargeable, and other cell technology variants.

It is entirely possible that he experienced that reported difference at least once, not sure he would experience the same difference every time, but perhaps, especially if the two brands use different internal battery technology.

It tells me the electronic circuit design is marginal, or routinely being overdriven such that the amount of clipping is apparent. I can imagine other circuit behavior phenomenon related to PS rail voltage.

FWIW modern electronics are quiet enough that a battery powered effect could be run cool enough to not clip, but I doubt that is a primary concern of designers for that genre.   

JR
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 26, 2014, 03:51:22 PM
Guitarist Eric Johnson suggests that different makes of battery in his effects can alter the tone and he claims that he can tell the difference in tone between a lead with plain brass plugs and one with nickel plated plugs.


Steve.

I work with classical musicians who *can* hear very, very well, and when they say they hear a difference I usually can hear it right away, too.  Not so with *most* electric guitarists - they THINK they hear something that nobody else picks up on (or others think they hear something, but it's not at all what the other player think he's hearing).

I just try to smile and humour them.  And keep syringe full of Thorazine around in case they get weird. ;)
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 26, 2014, 04:25:38 PM
I work with classical musicians who *can* hear very, very well, and when they say they hear a difference I usually can hear it right away, too.  Not so with *most* electric guitarists - they THINK they hear something that nobody else picks up on (or others think they hear something, but it's not at all what the other player think he's hearing).

I just try to smile and humour them.  And keep syringe full of Thorazine around in case they get weird. ;)
hearing a difference vs not hearing a difference seems to have to do with having a trained ear. my landlord listens to  music in his car all the time on the one mono speaker. he came up and listened to my 3 way speaker in the foto and said it sounded like any other radio speaker  :o ! i 'v heard friends say that about stereos over the years. i can pick out differences in tones where other musician friends cant. long ago a geetarist i was in a band with put a different brand of tubes in his Ampeg amp. he had it rebiased. the sound was a lot different. i was trippin out that a different brand of tube could make that big a difference. i think its just paying attention to the sound and making sure you keep you imagination out of it. i use to go to several of the Audiophile Stereo strores here in los Angeles. a friend worked a 3 different ones over the course of several years. we use to try a lot of the so called magic caps and wires and connector goo and power conditioners and figured it was peoples imagination that caused them to hear something different. and evn IF it actually is different is it really better detail your hearing form the recording or added by the hooky pook device. as most of us know some pa equipment sounds a lot better that other stuff.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on March 26, 2014, 06:20:13 PM
I guess the question that comes to mind, is that even IF there is a difference, and IF you can hear the difference either in a quiet pre-performance venue, or a studio, does it really matter?

Trust me, I am not one to settle for a mediocre setup-on the contrary I think you should do the best you can every time (there are those who know me that get irritated at how picky I can be at times)-but at some point the vast majority of the audience will not notice-or be able to tell the difference.  Why fight a minor difference, when the product will be converted to MP3 and played on an earbud in noisy vehicle?  Or for that matter, with a venue full of people making their own noise?

Part of being a good engineer is knowing when to stop throwing money at a real or perceived problem.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 26, 2014, 10:56:06 PM
I guess the question that comes to mind, is that even IF there is a difference, and IF you can hear the difference either in a quiet pre-performance venue, or a studio, does it really matter?

Trust me, I am not one to settle for a mediocre setup-on the contrary I think you should do the best you can every time (there are those who know me that get irritated at how picky I can be at times)-but at some point the vast majority of the audience will not notice-or be able to tell the difference.  Why fight a minor difference, when the product will be converted to MP3 and played on an earbud in noisy vehicle?  Or for that matter, with a venue full of people making their own noise?

Part of being a good engineer is knowing when to stop throwing money at a real or perceived problem.
right on. i wasnt refering to a venue either. the only time i'm picky about fine tuning the sound is on my home playback/stereo system. 
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Joseph D. Macry on March 27, 2014, 01:19:21 PM
You just don't argue with folks that have audio hallucinations and think they hear shit that plainly isn't there.  It's like trying to teach a pig to sing - it's a complete waste of time and very annoying to the pig.

Or like trying to teach a rapper how to hold a microphone.
But if that pig is selling albums and tickets, and winning Grammy's....
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Joseph D. Macry on March 27, 2014, 01:25:54 PM
So who said anything about age? Guess what...  9V batteries are not all exactly 9V when new... Even 9V batteries from the same brand are not all the same voltage. Then we see differences between rechargeable, and other cell technology variants.

It is entirely possible that he experienced that reported difference at least once, not sure he would experience the same difference every time, but perhaps, especially if the two brands use different internal battery technology.

It tells me the electronic circuit design is marginal, or routinely being overdriven such that the amount of clipping is apparent. I can imagine other circuit behavior phenomenon related to PS rail voltage.

FWIW modern electronics are quiet enough that a battery powered effect could be run cool enough to not clip, but I doubt that is a primary concern of designers for that genre.   

JR

Back when I was doing MI retail, we sold a brand of "vintage" 9V battery (I think they were from Danelectro) that we measured at about 7.2 volts. The idea being to make your pedal sound like the battery was on the verge of dying.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Steve Kennedy-Williams on March 27, 2014, 06:12:42 PM
Back when I was doing MI retail, we sold a brand of "vintage" 9V battery (I think they were from Danelectro) that we measured at about 7.2 volts. The idea being to make your pedal sound like the battery was on the verge of dying.

A friend of mine who builds distortion pedals (Greedtone) experimented with a voltage sag knob to duplicate the low voltage effect. He even built one circuit that was adjustable with an expression pedal. :)
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Rick Scofield on March 28, 2014, 12:51:34 PM
Not "Monster-Related", but on people "hearing" stuff: 

Just last night at band rehearsal, (everyone on IEMs with individual monitor mixes), SAX player asks for a little more SAX in his mix, so I reach for the Aux send on SAX channel to dial him up a tad in HIS MIX.  Simultaneously the female VOX says "oh, he too loud now" and guitarist says "that's MUCH better".

Weird because I hadn't even gotten to the knob yet!  Not to mention that his mix is completely separate from theirs.  Would have made some sense if I touched the gain or something, but I didn't.

Just about every time someone asks for changes in their mix, they somehow hear that change BEFORE I make it.  Power of suggestion is a crazy thing.
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 28, 2014, 05:12:20 PM
Not "Monster-Related", but on people "hearing" stuff: 

Just last night at band rehearsal, (everyone on IEMs with individual monitor mixes), SAX player asks for a little more SAX in his mix, so I reach for the Aux send on SAX channel to dial him up a tad in HIS MIX.  Simultaneously the female VOX says "oh, he too loud now" and guitarist says "that's MUCH better".

Weird because I hadn't even gotten to the knob yet!  Not to mention that his mix is completely separate from theirs.  Would have made some sense if I touched the gain or something, but I didn't.

Just about every time someone asks for changes in their mix, they somehow hear that change BEFORE I make it.  Power of suggestion is a crazy thing.
i have some super trick track electron super speedway mic cable they might want to buy. you can hear the difference before you plug it in !
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Mike Sokol on March 28, 2014, 05:45:13 PM
i have some super trick track electron super speedway mic cable they might want to buy. you can hear the difference before you plug it in !
Cool... How much per foot? 8)
Title: Re: Monster Cable--really??
Post by: Jeff Bankston on March 28, 2014, 09:48:52 PM
Cool... How much per foot? 8)
look at the picture. thats the price per foot.