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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Zachary Zimmerman on February 03, 2013, 06:09:05 PM

Title: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Zachary Zimmerman on February 03, 2013, 06:09:05 PM
Has anyone had experience building and using the 1850 horn designed by rog mogale on speakerplans.com
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Chris Van Duker on February 03, 2013, 11:32:51 PM
They have a discussion forum over there at speakerplans, with a section devoted to those horns. http://forum.speakerplans.com/1850-and-186-horns_forum7.html (http://forum.speakerplans.com/1850-and-186-horns_forum7.html)
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Zachary Zimmerman on February 03, 2013, 11:43:50 PM
They have a discussion forum over there at speakerplans, with a section devoted to those horns. http://forum.speakerplans.com/1850-and-186-horns_forum7.html (http://forum.speakerplans.com/1850-and-186-horns_forum7.html)

Thanks Chris

I am a member of that forum as well an have read over most all of the discussions on them but I wanted to see if anyone over here had any experience. I do believe he and most of those guys are from overseas.
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on February 04, 2013, 01:31:25 AM
Speakers don't work different over there.
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Art Welter on February 04, 2013, 11:04:26 AM
Has anyone had experience building and using the 1850 horn designed by rog mogale on speakerplans.com
Zachary,

That "sub" only goes down to 54 Hz.
The low "B" on a bass is 31 Hz, almost an octave lower.
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Tim Weaver on February 04, 2013, 02:52:24 PM
Speakers don't work different over there.

They spin anti-clockwise when going down the drain I think.


Like the OP, I have read a lot at both the speakerforums and speakerplans forums. I have come to the conclusion that everyone there is a DJ. Specifically a Reggaeton style DJ. All they want is scoops and "kick bins". If you can get a Turbo-style top box to go on that and paint it some hideous neon color you are "in there like swimwear".
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Malcolm Barnes on February 04, 2013, 07:40:48 PM
They spin anti-clockwise when going down the drain I think.


Like the OP, I have read a lot at both the speakerforums and speakerplans forums. I have come to the conclusion that everyone there is a DJ. Specifically a Reggaeton style DJ. All they want is scoops and "kick bins". If you can get a Turbo-style top box to go on that and paint it some hideous neon color you are "in there like swimwear".

Ha haaa. Thats too funny Tim. There is a Scoop following on SP, just like on here. Whatever,  for the hard of hearing... Does no one on PSW like bright neon and speedos? C'mon... I hear in Texas it's all the rage.
There are very few DJ's per number of members on SP, however they are not scared to take part in a debate and discuss the in's and out's of a load of old bull.

There are many American guys that post on speakerplans and form a part of a usefull community. You should check in with these guys. They have their faucets 240V pump powered to reverse the flow and be much more efficient.
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Kevin McDonough on February 04, 2013, 08:18:55 PM
They spin anti-clockwise when going down the drain I think.


Like the OP, I have read a lot at both the speakerforums and speakerplans forums. I have come to the conclusion that everyone there is a DJ. Specifically a Reggaeton style DJ. All they want is scoops and "kick bins". If you can get a Turbo-style top box to go on that and paint it some hideous neon color you are "in there like swimwear".

HAHA

as a regular poster on Speakerplans, probably even more than here, I can confirm while this is a nice stereotype its not actually true!  :)

What is true is that it was started originally by Rog Mogale and a group of people who were mostly based in the dance music and free party scene and who wanted a place discuss and understand the details of bass horn design primarily, and horn loaded speaker design in general.  The much higher sensitivity and volume of horn designs, and much "quicker" more accurate sound sound, meant that they were their main speaker of choice for pushing out the extra volume of bass needed for the music they liked.

There were also, as you say, a fair group of people who are also involved in the roots/reggae/dub scene and who preferred scoops as their sub of choice.

However as someone pointed out this extra sensitivity comes at a price of reduced frequency response and so they have to be quite big and bulky to get down to the frequencies reached by the types of double 18" reflex speakers that US sound men/women will be a bit more familiar with. 

(have a look at the EM quake sub or Void psyco sub for good examples of horns that play very low and very loud, or even obviously the Lab sub!)

As with all speaker designs its a compromise between the various design criteria, and you choose the ones that best suit you.

Double 18" sound great, are much much better for near(er) throw applications and provide a simple one box solution to bass that runs from high 30s or low 40s right up to meet your tops.

Where as horns are much more sensitive (meaning transporting less boxes, amps and less power draw to get the same SPL), much better for long throw and outdoor applications and sound much punchier and quicker, but the trade off is bigger bulkier boxes and depending on the design of the tops your using and how low they play, sometimes having to use a combination of lower bass and upper bass (kick) cabs to cover the full frequency range.

Or you can try one of the many tapped, bandpassed or ported horn variants that try and bridge the gap between the two and get some of the horn sensitivity and punch while keeping most of the wide response of reflex.


However horns and scoops are not the ONLY thing they discuss or design, and these days the site is far more mixed than it used to be. I myself have been a member for nearly 8 years (2005) and have never played dubstep, raggae or used a skoop in my life, being occasionally a DJ for some spare pocket money but primarily a live engineer and system tech working with both unsigned local bands and touring acts.

Its definitely true that on SP they don't have the same wealth of knowledge and experience on high level touring and live work that is available on here, but in counter-balance the average SP'er will have noticeably more knowledge about speaker and system design, topologies of different speaker types and loading methods etc etc.  (though obviously there is still a good collection of people here with a wealth of experience in that area too :) )

Its also a little more relaxed than on here, which does occasionally lead to flair-ups and disagreements but usually just leads to some good banter and micky-taking.

As Malcolm says while its main focus is a little different than this forum, there is still a wealth of knowledge there that people are happy to share if your interested in the kind of things in their wheelhouse.

k

Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Mark McFarlane on February 04, 2013, 10:44:41 PM
... Does no one on PSW like bright neon and speedos? C'mon... I hear in Texas it's all the rage. ...

Anyone in Texas over the age of 12 caught in a Speedo is at serious risk.  It's just not done.
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Elliot Thompson on February 04, 2013, 10:49:34 PM
Speakerplans is a design forum. Prosoundweb is an end user forum. So naturally, those who like to design will find the information on Speakerplans more helpful than Prosoundweb. Those who are not into the technical side of loudspeaker design will find Prosoundweb more intriguing.




Has anyone had experience building and using the 1850 horn designed by rog mogale on speakerplans.com

The PD 1850 horn is designed around the Precision Devices PD 1850. Since the Precision Devices PD 1850 is not available in the United States and, there is no 18-inch driver available in the United States that offers the same TS Parameters as the Precision Devices 1850, the PD 1850 is not popular in the United States.

Unless you are planning to import the Precision Devices PD 1850 from the UK, it would be wiser to design a horn around the driver you are planning to use instead of sticking a driver in a box that it wasn't designed for.

Best Regards,

Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Chris Van Duker on February 05, 2013, 12:03:45 AM
Actually, the PD 1850 is now available here through US Speaker, though it's not cheap.

http://www.usspeaker.com/precsiondevices-pd1850-1.htm (http://www.usspeaker.com/precsiondevices-pd1850-1.htm)
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on February 05, 2013, 02:14:42 AM
Actually, the PD 1850 is now available here through US Speaker, though it's not cheap.

http://www.usspeaker.com/precsiondevices-pd1850-1.htm (http://www.usspeaker.com/precsiondevices-pd1850-1.htm)

I spoke with my local Penn Elcom guy earlier this week and he mentioned that he can get PD speakers as well.
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Elliot Thompson on February 05, 2013, 04:52:58 AM
Actually, the PD 1850 is now available here through US Speaker, though it's not cheap.

http://www.usspeaker.com/precsiondevices-pd1850-1.htm (http://www.usspeaker.com/precsiondevices-pd1850-1.htm)

That is good to know. The price reflects the import fee in addition to whatever profit US Speaker is commanding.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/precision_devices_pd1850.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/precision_devices_pd1850.htm)

The Precision Devices PD 1850 was never known as an inexpensive speaker.

Best Regards,
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Colin Brown on February 05, 2013, 04:59:56 AM
The Void V18-1000 is a popular alternative driver that works well in this horn (Void is Rog Mogale's company). I know Void have a US distributor for their range of cabinets so it may be possible to obtain this driver through them (Nathan Short?).

My small collective has four 1850 horns which we built and loaded with the V18-1000. We've been running them for three or four years now and have been pleased with the sound.
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: David Morison on February 05, 2013, 07:54:11 AM
http://www.thomann.de/gb/precision_devices_pd1850.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/precision_devices_pd1850.htm)

The Precision Devices PD 1850 was never known as an inexpensive speaker.

Obviously, it's all relative... (http://www.thomann.de/gb/jbl_2241_hpl_tieftoener.htm)
Title: Re: 1850 horn loaded sub
Post by: Elliot Thompson on February 05, 2013, 01:10:01 PM
Obviously, it's all relative... (http://www.thomann.de/gb/jbl_2241_hpl_tieftoener.htm)

Absolutely!

If you are serious into design, investing in such a speaker will not be a problem. However, if you are a hobbyist, in which price is the deciding factor, the Precision Devices 1850 will not be within your budget.

Best Regards,