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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: quan.dangle on April 21, 2014, 12:41:18 AM

Title: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 21, 2014, 12:41:18 AM
I am new to this forum. Now I am planning a new small installed theater in the round, 70 ft length x 50 ft width x 17 ft high. In design I already apply acoustic treatments for the room.

So now I need any help to make the configuration of the sound reinforcement gears for:
- Micro: maybe shure SM57 for vocal and instrument. 4 Nos maybe enough
- Speakers: 4 Nos maybe enough
- Floor speakers
- Subwoofer: maybe needed
- Mixer
- Processor
- Amp
- EQ, effect
- And any other gear upon your advise.

The invested amount is around 10K. In our country we do not apply sound reinforcement, so I can not get help.

I only need common, not so much complicated configuration. No need for too much professonal.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Thomas Le on April 21, 2014, 09:20:51 AM
An install? Maybe get a contractor to spec a system for you if possible?


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Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 21, 2014, 09:41:54 AM
An install? Maybe get a contractor to spec a system for you if possible?


I am from Vietnam. In our country we apply only PA system or acoustic only, not acoustic electric. So I can not find contractor for this. I must get support from this forum to let my plan going on.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Thomas Le on April 21, 2014, 01:25:37 PM
Is that amount in VND or USD?


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Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 21, 2014, 09:54:25 PM
Is that amount in VND or USD?



Of course in USD
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Perry on April 21, 2014, 10:15:13 PM
Of course in USD

Do you have a specific question? Most of would like to help. What is your biggest concern?
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 21, 2014, 10:56:06 PM
Do you have a specific question? Most of would like to help. What is your biggest concern?

As above mentioned post, I need help for making the configuration for sound reinforcement equipment with not-much-complicated, common specification.

I can not get help from expert or contractor in our country cause' we do not apply sound reinforcement for theater.

I would like to buy product in US cause' in Vietnam there are only China products and not enough equipments and support.

So I need to get the model and number for that model to get my plan going on. This question maybe funny but I do not have much experience on prosound and newbie to this forum.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Perry on April 22, 2014, 10:05:07 AM
As above mentioned post, I need help for making the configuration for sound reinforcement equipment with not-much-complicated, common specification.

I can not get help from expert or contractor in our country cause' we do not apply sound reinforcement for theater.

I would like to buy product in US cause' in Vietnam there are only China products and not enough equipments and support.

So I need to get the model and number for that model to get my plan going on. This question maybe funny but I do not have much experience on prosound and newbie to this forum.

Thanks in advance.

Quan, sadly most of the product in the USA IS from China.  As I have little idea of what shipping costs will be, import taxes, bribes, and so on. 

You will need to make sure all equipment will operate at 220V 50Hz.

 For example: QSC powered speakers and Presonus Studiolive mixers have universal power supplies

A digital mixer plus active speaker and some wire will pretty much cover your needs as much as I can guess at them.  For theater work I find it very benificial to have 3 Crown PCC 160 microphones in stage plus a number of Shure ULX wireless headset mics.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Jerome Malsack on April 22, 2014, 12:34:29 PM
I read some where that Japan has a 10 mw limit on unlicensed wireless mic's 
should check on his local area and see what his rules are.  The other question is going to be with wireless what frequencies will be allowed?   US has lost the 700 mhz band and might be loosing the 600. 

This is another issue he may need to get answered to avoid problems. 
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Thomas Le on April 22, 2014, 01:43:33 PM
As others have pointed out, it's best to buy what's in the local area as we are all playing the guessing game as to whether it will work in VN radio space as well as power.


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Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 23, 2014, 11:39:53 AM
Quan, sadly most of the product in the USA IS from China.  As I have little idea of what shipping costs will be, import taxes, bribes, and so on. 

You will need to make sure all equipment will operate at 220V 50Hz.

 For example: QSC powered speakers and Presonus Studiolive mixers have universal power supplies

A digital mixer plus active speaker and some wire will pretty much cover your needs as much as I can guess at them.  For theater work I find it very benificial to have 3 Crown PCC 160 microphones in stage plus a number of Shure ULX wireless headset mics.

Thank you so much for your advice.

In our country we use 220V 50Hz for electricity. So no problem. If diferrent, I can use transformer or voltare stabilizer. But voltare stabilizer or transfomer or insolation tranformer is better?

So I have the configuration for sound reinforcement system:

PreSonus StudioLive 16.4.2 16-Channel Digital Mixer with FireWire Interface

QSC K8 2-Way Powered Speaker (1000 Watts, 1x8")

Regarding wireless headset mic, I can buy in Vietnam
Shure PGX14E
Crown PCC-160 Boundary Microphone
I have a question. Crown PCC-160 is a boundary microphone on the floor, so can it be used for vocal and instrument without overhang mic? And whether the foot step of perfomer can affect too much on it.

Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Perry on April 24, 2014, 08:43:05 AM

I have a question. Crown PCC-160 is a boundary microphone on the floor, so can it be used for vocal and instrument without overhang mic? And whether the foot step of perfomer can affect too much on it.

I find the PCC mics greatly preferable to hanging mics in most cases.

Footsteps are usually not a problem.  A loud banging noise on the stage will be real loud in the PA. set limiters and compressors for these channels to minimize the problem.

If the actors cannot or will not project their voice, you will need to have them on a wireless anyway. 

In the small room that you describe it would not seem that very much PA will be needed. That is assuming typical theatrical production.  If you are doing bands or music acts that is another matter.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 24, 2014, 10:59:11 AM
Thanks so much.

I have other questions:

I can use Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2 instead of 16.4.2. It maybe ok?

I refer to crown website they suggest that stage need to cover by thin carpet attached with felt or rubber.

Further, referring to some posts, Crown PCC160 needed to be angled about 10 degree and putting on foam. And could you tell me if this method can be used as below link:
http://jac.michaeldrolet.net/design/sound_design.htm
See picture of  "Figure 3 - Pressure Zone Microphone"
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 24, 2014, 11:06:24 AM
Forget to ask you another thing. I plan to use 4 QSC K8 speakers. But the low end is not too deep, so how about applying subwoofer and how many needed.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Thomas Le on April 24, 2014, 01:38:25 PM
There are other digital mixers that work in the 220V such as:

- Allen & Heath QU
- Behringer X32
- Soundcraft Si Expression

For the same price of the QSC k8, you could get Yamaha DXR12 and have the DXS15 or DSR118W sub.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Perry on April 24, 2014, 07:14:23 PM
Forget to ask you another thing. I plan to use 4 QSC K8 speakers. But the low end is not too deep, so how about applying subwoofer and how many needed.

Subwoofers are usually not needed and not desirable for theater vocal reproduction. Special effects, recorded music and for live bands is a different matter.

If a subwoofer is used do not rout the boundary mics to it.

Given that this is theater in the round in a small room adding a sub may cause you more problems then it is worth.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Perry on April 24, 2014, 07:48:21 PM
Quan, I would suggest simply taping the PCC mics to the edge of the stage. It is simple and effective.

The PCC mics are directional.

I have found in the past that building special enclosures in an attempt to increase microphone directionality (for example to reduce sound from the orchestra pit)  to be of little or no benefit.

I have a special plexiglass  mount for boundary effect mic on a mic stand. I have not used it in 30 years.

In this picture 3 PCC's are spread out at the edge of the stage. an additional boundary mic is hidden stage right on a prop fireplace.  A shotgun mic was used for a single scene where the actor gave a silique (speech) at the edge of  the stage.

(note to all: I had nothing to do with lighting)

Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 25, 2014, 09:01:04 AM
I read a lot of great review about powered speaker Yamaha DXR12. It is suitable for sound reinforcement. Cound you recommend intergrated mixer for my second option of SR system
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Thomas Le on April 25, 2014, 09:13:27 AM
For simplicity, I would look at Soundcraft Si expression or Allen & Heath QU. For lots of features, have a look at Behringer X32.


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Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 25, 2014, 09:39:45 AM
For simplicity, I would look at Soundcraft Si expression or Allen & Heath QU. For lots of features, have a look at Behringer X32.


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But I have only 4 mics, so I do not need mixer with so many chanels. Or Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2 can be used for a my small venue. I heard DXR12 can be coupled with relatively many mixer and can sound wise. But I do not know the actual.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Andre Vare on April 25, 2014, 12:23:27 PM
But I have only 4 mics, so I do not need mixer with so many chanels. Or Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2 can be used for a my small venue.
The Presonus mutes between scene changes.  This makes the unit unsuitable for scene changes where some inputs are to remain on while some are changed in level or other otherwise unrelated settings to overall output.

A thread about this is http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/3104.page (http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/3104.page)

Unmuted,
Andre
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Thomas Le on April 25, 2014, 01:35:31 PM
You could also look at the X32 compact. IMO at this point in time, the Presonus boards aren't worth their price since there's no full recall on the HA and faders.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 26, 2014, 07:52:03 AM
Thank you all for your great helps.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Padrick on April 26, 2014, 10:43:11 PM
With PCC160, the ratio of voice to footsteps varies greatly, depending on the construction of the stage and the footwear of the performers.

I would recommend Behringer, Soundcraft, or Allen & Heath digital mixers over the Presonus, depending upon the prices, and the abilities of the person or persons who will be operating the console.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on April 26, 2014, 11:34:39 PM
With PCC160, the ratio of voice to footsteps varies greatly, depending on the construction of the stage and the footwear of the performers.

I would recommend Behringer, Soundcraft, or Allen & Heath digital mixers over the Presonus, depending upon the prices, and the abilities of the person or persons who will be operating the console.

My stage is in the center 4m x 4m x 0.5m rising up. I intend to cover stage with carpet attached with felt. If it does not solve the problem, so what is the solution.

Further I put the PCC 160 out of the vertical directivity of the speaker cause I position speaker in the center and above the stage near ceiling (1m distance) that help avoiding problem.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Perry on April 28, 2014, 12:22:19 AM
My stage is in the center 4m x 4m x 0.5m rising up. I intend to cover stage with carpet attached with felt. If it does not solve the problem, so what is the solution.

Further I put the PCC 160 out of the vertical directivity of the speaker cause I position speaker in the center and above the stage near ceiling (1m distance) that help avoiding problem.

When using any type of "area" micing it is necessary to to create a "dead zone" where the sound source is (actors).  The speakers must be positioned so they do not point at the microphone. 
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: quan.dangle on May 06, 2014, 05:53:11 AM
I check Crown PCC160 product and find that cable wire going along with is 15 foot, black, 2-conductor shielded cable with Switchcraft TA3F connector and A3M connector. It means that cable is 15 foot length, so how can I have a distance of , for example, 40 foot. Ordinary mic cable can be used in this case. I means XLR one.
Title: Re: Need help for sound reinforcement gear configuration for small installed theater
Post by: Tim Perry on May 06, 2014, 09:07:47 AM
I check Crown PCC160 product and find that cable wire going along with is 15 foot, black, 2-conductor shielded cable with Switchcraft TA3F connector and A3M connector. It means that cable is 15 foot length, so how can I have a distance of , for example, 40 foot. Ordinary mic cable can be used in this case. I means XLR one.

Yes