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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Keith Broughton on January 07, 2014, 08:15:32 AM
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This guy had worked out some software for auto gain functions.
I'm not all that keen on the "soundcheck" feature but am interested in the auto mix for dialogue applications.
http://www.altheide.eu/en (http://www.altheide.eu/en)
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A method of automatically setting the gain during soundcheck instead of relying on you to adjust it whilst looking at a meter is definitely a possibility.
I'm not sure that I would want it automatically adjusting things mid show though.
However, a warning that something has changed significantly, suggesting you do something about it could be a useful feature.
Steve.
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A method of automatically setting the gain during soundcheck instead of relying on you to adjust it whilst looking at a meter is definitely a possibility.
I'm not sure that I would want it automatically adjusting things mid show though.
This is something I have thought about (too much). To keep it only an incremental change from current practice you could lock gains after set-up and dynamically adjust input trim down, and fader up if they consume channel headroom. You could even correct pre fader channel sends for the mid-show input trims.
I have been hinting about results related mixing, where input trims are adjusted on the fly as needed.
If you think about it input trims can be set better by computers than humans, while the mix needs to be done by a human, at least once.
However, a warning that something has changed significantly, suggesting you do something about it could be a useful feature.
Steve.
We are just scraping the surface of taking advantage of the decision making capability inherent in digital control hardware.
JR
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This would be a live version of normalising which is used for digitally recorded music, The whole track is looked at and it is scaled to make best use of the dynamic range.
A live version would actually be easier. Just monitor the signal for a while, perhaps when a channel 'gain trim' switch is pressed and decide the best gain setting for each input.
This could save a bit of time for multiple microphone sources. You could set it running for all the microphones on a drum kit and get the drummer to play the whole kit. You could even do the whole band at once.
Still need to EQ individually though!
Steve.
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This would be a live version of normalising which is used for digitally recorded music, The whole track is looked at and it is scaled to make best use of the dynamic range.
A live version would actually be easier. Just monitor the signal for a while, perhaps when a channel 'gain trim' switch is pressed and decide the best gain setting for each input.
This could save a bit of time for multiple microphone sources. You could set it running for all the microphones on a drum kit and get the drummer to play the whole kit. You could even do the whole band at once.
Still need to EQ individually though!
Steve.
Really interesting... and its written by a high school kid. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg for 3rd party software plugins for this desk.
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it appears they have the software limited to only a specific IP range my building doesn't use. :(
Was really hoping to try this out and give some feedback. Will have to wait till the software supports more options for networking support.
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well I e-mailed the developer and he was quick to make an update for me to use the class B ip settings. Seems to be working great now. Hoping to try this out this week in my main room with 16 wireless microphones.
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Adam Whetham informed me, that there is a thread about my "X32AutoGain" software.
It is great to know what users actually think of the idea of AutoGain and Automixer function.
First it was planed to set the gains during soundcheck only. But now e.g. Continouse-function can be used to leave Behringer X32 alone for a few minutes without the risk of clipping.
The Speaker-function (Automixer) has been included latly for my highschool`s debate program.
I am currently planning to add gain settings to Aux-Ins as well.
I would appreciate any ideas about improving the program, especially Speaker-function (Automixer).
Friedrich
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The Speaker-function (Automixer) has been included latly for my highschool`s debate program.
I would appreciate any ideas about improving the program, especially Speaker-function (Automixer).
Friedrich
You should read up on automixing and specifically (Dan) Dugan automixers. This is pretty much the gold-standard preferred by most live sound folks. Although I don't rule out someone coming up with another acceptable way to do automixing or improving on the Dugan.....understanding what he does would probably save you some time...at least at first.
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Thanks Tom.
While I love the idea of a spirited youth developing a useful hack, there is tender turf to tread making a broadcast-stable app.
Perhaps in some low-profile town hall meeting it is appropriate, but I'm not gonna hang my corpy hat on it.
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Thanks Tom.
While I love the idea of a spirited youth developing a useful hack, there is tender turf to tread making a broadcast-stable app.
Perhaps in some low-profile town hall meeting it is appropriate, but I'm not gonna hang my corpy hat on it.
Even Mr dugan had to start somewhere. :D
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"Even Mr Dugan had to start somewhere. :D"
My point exactly! Everyone starts "in the garage" (though now its "in the cloud"). And the old guard doesn't cozy up until the concept is fully developed and demonstrated.
Same as it ever was...
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I am currently working on a big update. This will include the following changes:
Speaker Control will work on all 32 Channels.
IP-Range will be expanding.
The Aux-Ins will be controlled with “START” and ”Continue” as well.
Until it is fully tested you can use X32AutoGain with X32 Firmware 2.01 by entering the following code into the IP-window:
U2U-VfK-DRk-IAP
An input-box will appear. Please enter the firmware version 2.01 .
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I would appreciate any ideas about improving the program, especially Speaker-function (Automixer).
Friedrich
A +1 for the "Dugan" algorithm. This is public domain so free to use.
Simply put, to perform a Dugan style auto-mix you capture an average level for each channel in the auto-mix, and a average level for the entire mix sum of all (with no gain adjustment). Then compare the individual channel levels to the sum of them all. If a channel is lower level than the sum of all, reduce it by that difference. So if it is .7x the level of the sum apply a gain of .7x, etc. It's that easy,,, This approach delivers a nominal apparent NOM (number of open mics) of 1x.
Good luck
JR
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A +1 for the "Dugan" algorithm. This is public domain so free to use.
Simply put, to perform a Dugan style auto-mix you capture an average level for each channel in the auto-mix, and a average level for the entire mix sum of all (with no gain adjustment). Then compare the individual channel levels to the sum of them all. If a channel is lower level than the sum of all, reduce it by that difference. So if it is .7x the level of the sum apply a gain of .7x, etc. It's that easy,,, This approach delivers a nominal apparent NOM (number of open mics) of 1x.
Good luck
JR
:) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automixer
"In 1997, John H. Roberts of Peavey Electronics was granted a patent for an automatic mixer priority circuit, enabling a hierarchy of logic weighting that allowed selected signals to push forward in the mix when they are in use, while still maintaining the useful constant unity, gain-sharing relationship first described by Dugan. The hierarchy enabled a host, moderator or chairperson to speak over other participants and retain control of the discussion.[31] Peavey's Architectural Acoustics division used three levels of hierarchy in their 1998 "Automix 2" product, placing the first- and second-most influentially weighted sources at inputs 1 and 2, respectively.[32]"
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:) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automixer
"In 1997, John H. Roberts of Peavey Electronics was granted a patent for an automatic mixer priority circuit, enabling a hierarchy of logic weighting that allowed selected signals to push forward in the mix when they are in use, while still maintaining the useful constant unity, gain-sharing relationship first described by Dugan. The hierarchy enabled a host, moderator or chairperson to speak over other participants and retain control of the discussion.[31] Peavey's Architectural Acoustics division used three levels of hierarchy in their 1998 "Automix 2" product, placing the first- and second-most influentially weighted sources at inputs 1 and 2, respectively.[32]"
Yes I know a little about automatic mixers... and other stuff too...
JR
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Like an upside down duck, you quack me up.