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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Al Rubio, Jr on December 31, 2012, 12:56:10 PM

Title: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on December 31, 2012, 12:56:10 PM
A local music club has been hiring me to run their FOH when they bring in "important acts".  They feel that I have a knack for wringing the most out of the equipment that they have. 
While that may be the case, they are sorely in need of an upgrade in the mixer dept. 
They currently have a Yamaha MG24-14fx that they got in used and battered shape.  It's functional, but that's about it.
Seeing as their profile is on the upswing, and that they plan on continuing to bring in "important acts" on a more frequent basis in the new year, I'm thinking that I might be able to convince the club owners to upgrade to a better mixer platform.
If it were your call, what would you be on the lookout for?  24 channel analog format is what they're used to (they hire other, less experienced hands to run sound on other nights), but make your case for other platforms (32? Digital 16?) Keep in mind that budget would be tight, so "previously owned" might allow for more 'bang for the buck', as they say.
Your insights and experiences with different brands, models, etc. and the pros and cons of these various mixers would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on December 31, 2012, 01:07:47 PM
A local music club has been hiring me to run their FOH when they bring in "important acts".  They feel that I have a knack for wringing the most out of the equipment that they have. 
While that may be the case, they are sorely in need of an upgrade in the mixer dept. 
They currently have a Yamaha MG24-14fx that they got in used and battered shape.  It's functional, but that's about it.
Seeing as their profile is on the upswing, and that they plan on continuing to bring in "important acts" on a more frequent basis in the new year, I'm thinking that I might be able to convince the club owners to upgrade to a better mixer platform.
If it were your call, what would you be on the lookout for?  24 channel analog format is what they're used to (they hire other, less experienced hands to run sound on other nights), but make your case for other platforms (32? Digital 16?) Keep in mind that budget would be tight, so "previously owned" might allow for more 'bang for the buck', as they say.
Your insights and experiences with different brands, models, etc. and the pros and cons of these various mixers would be greatly appreciated!

ANYTHING is better than what they have........

While 24 channels may seem to be an adequate upward move, I'd go for at least 32 channels for several reasons:

1.  Almost always obviates the need for sub-mixers and offers a few spare channels should you experience any failures or need to split inputs for monitor purposes.

2.  Typically comes with 4 stereo/8 mono sub-groups and some matrices.

3.  More auxes.  Buy as many as you can get.......
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Rick Powell on December 31, 2012, 03:48:13 PM
If you were here a week ago, you could've been recommended a Soundcraft 32 channel console that was $15k when new that went for less than $700. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NO-RESERVE-Soundcraft-Series-Two-32-Channel-Console-/200862801060?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&nma=true&si=tsJH0CzJeqHhKLw0V2ZteJPJoX0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 04, 2013, 12:41:28 AM
Thanx for all the info so far!
Having gotten a bit more of an idea as to what the potential budget MIGHT be... does anyone have any opinion(s) to share on the pros & cons that the Midas Venice 320 and Soundcraft LX7ii present?  Does one have any sort of clear advantage over the other (mic pre's, EQ, etc...)?
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Bob Leonard on January 04, 2013, 12:52:18 AM
If you're going analog then you should also look at APB.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 04, 2013, 01:47:07 AM
APB would be great, and if it were for me personally, it would most definitely be in the mix!
But... not having final say-so over the budget puts a bit of a constraint on the proceedings, so to speak!
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Jeff Bankston on January 04, 2013, 02:16:52 AM
Allen Heath GL2400 or GL2800 , and get at least a 32 channel.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Chris Eddison on January 04, 2013, 03:42:04 AM
I'll second the suggestion for Allen and Heath. I've owned a GL2400 for 8 years now and it's been a cracking little console. They come up on ebay all the time. I can't tell your location, but if you were in the UK then you can get a lot of console for not much money here;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Allen-Heath-GL3300-40-channel-mixing-desk-/251205963501?pt=UK_Mixers&hash=item3a7d0aceed
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 04, 2013, 06:51:36 PM
Lots of A&H love coming in here...
Anyone care to rank them (A&H, Soundcraft and Midas) by quality of pre's, build, etc?
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 04, 2013, 06:58:17 PM
Lots of A&H love coming in here...
Anyone care to rank them (A&H, Soundcraft and Midas) by quality of pre's, build, etc?

It's all good, but I particularly like the quality of the Midas Etc.........
Title: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Samuel Rees on January 04, 2013, 08:17:43 PM
A/H GL and Soundcraft GB desks get it done and are around the used market often. If you are looking at LX7s, the newer "LX7ii" seems to sound cleaner than the old ones IMO.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Scott Wagner on January 05, 2013, 09:21:11 AM
It's all good, but I particularly like the quality of the Midas Etc.........
Midas desks sound great, once you get past the Venice level.  At that level, my opinion is that the A&H desks are a better buy without any less quality.  I haven't had much drive time on Soundcraft since the days of the 200/400 models.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Bob Leonard on January 05, 2013, 09:36:23 AM
OP,
Why don't you let us know how much you can spend so that we can narrow the field. After that the rest will be up to you.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 05, 2013, 02:17:02 PM
OP,
Why don't you let us know how much you can spend so that we can narrow the field. After that the rest will be up to you.

I'll be speaking to the bar management/ownership this weekend, so hopefully I'll have a better idea as to what their budgetary thoughts are sometime soon.  I will be mentioning the suggestions so far, so hopefully that'll help them along in the process.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Luke Geis on January 05, 2013, 11:14:39 PM
The new Midas Venice F32 is priced pretty good! It is a nice desk and sounds really good if you use it properly. I don't really care for their weird auxiliary naming though? It is only a 6 aux desk, but it has a matrix out and is XLY everything. You can find them new for around 3-4K. My second choice would be the A&H GL series. I think the 2400 series only has 6 auxes, but the 3800 series has 8?  It is a nice desk and again sound really good if you use it a certain way.

In your case with other operators I would stick to analog. You need something that anyone can walk in and run. A digital mixer is going to leave some people with a large learning curve.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 06, 2013, 01:11:04 AM
In your case with other operators I would stick to analog. You need something that anyone can walk in and run. A digital mixer is going to leave some people with a large learning curve.

My thinking precisely!
I also have to be able to explain the most basic functionality to certain bar staff so they can bring up their satellite radio stations and TV audio on 'off nights'... ("DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING BUT THIS!!! :P )
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 09, 2013, 12:36:46 AM
Well... we finally had our "strategizing" session for the upcoming year with the owners of the bar in question.
They see their mixer budget as accommodating something in the $1500 neighborhood... as in "not more than".
So, from the suggestions made so far... and from what I've seen in the short time I've been browsing around on the used market... I guess I'll be looking to try to score them either an A&H GL2400-32 or a Soundcraft GB4-32.  A 24 channel console would cut it, but the points made about the benefits of going for 32 make a lot of sense to me.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Greg_Cameron on January 09, 2013, 01:02:15 AM
The new Midas Venice F32 is priced pretty good! It is a nice desk and sounds really good if you use it properly. s...A&H GL series. I think the 2400 series only has 6 auxes, but the 3800 series has 8?  It is a nice desk and again sound really good if you use it a certain way.

What exactly does that mean, "use it properly" & "use it a certain way"?
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 09, 2013, 09:38:49 AM
What exactly does that mean, "use it properly" (like Luke) & "use it a certain way"(like Luke)?

Translated for you.

Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Greg_Cameron on January 09, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
Translated for you.

I see. The implication is that other desks sound ok when you don't use them them "properly" or that the A&H has to be used a "certain way" than other desks to sound good. AFAIK, if you don't clip the crap out of the preamps and have proper gain structure, they work the same way as any other desk. Or have I been using them wrong all these years?

P.S. to Luke: the Venice F isn't that new. It was introduced back in 2010.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 09, 2013, 11:57:56 AM
Translated for you.

"Luke.... I AM your father."
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 09, 2013, 12:12:41 PM
"Luke.... I AM your father."

Made my day!
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 09, 2013, 08:05:23 PM
With the light-hearted turn this thread has taken, I take it that the narrowing down to a choice between the GL2400 & GB4 consoles is judged acceptable...?  ;-)
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 09, 2013, 08:25:24 PM
With the light-hearted turn this thread has taken, I take it that the narrowing down to a choice between the GL2400 & GB4 consoles is judged acceptable...?  ;-)

Apparently.  I'm a big fan of Allen & Heath, but the GB4 has a few more features such as mute groups and 2 more auxes.......at least from a cursory Google scan.  If you could find the $$$, there are quite a few GL3300's going for around $2K with dual outboard power supplies, more auxes and meter bridge.  Most are coming out of church installs, so are clean but lack a road case.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Jordan Wolf on January 10, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
With the light-hearted turn this thread has taken, I take it that the narrowing down to a choice between the GL2400 & GB4 consoles is judged acceptable...?  ;-)
The A&H have pads on each channel…that may or may not be a selling point for you.  I think the low mid sweep goes lower in frequency, but can't check to be sure (on a gig).  I've used both, and as long as the operator knows what they want to accomplish AND the boards' limitations, either will work just fine.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on January 10, 2013, 03:05:09 PM
With the light-hearted turn this thread has taken, I take it that the narrowing down to a choice between the GL2400 & GB4 consoles is judged acceptable...?  ;-)

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,141713.msg1312026/topicseen.html#msg1312026
Title: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Samuel Rees on January 10, 2013, 03:24:46 PM
GB4 has 2 more auxes, mute groups, and I believe a steeper HPF which is nice. Didn't realize how much I preferred them steep until I used Digico.

But, the A&H has an additional fader for a cue wedge or a few things. That could sell me on it if it sat on monitor.

Can't really 'go wrong' here IMO... the biggest variable might just be which one shows up at the better price used.
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Al Rubio, Jr on January 11, 2013, 04:50:42 AM
Thanx for the additional insights/details and the 'heads-up'!
Now that I've narrowed the options down a bit, I agree that it will probably end up being a 'right time/right place/right price' sort of ending for this quest!
Title: Re: What mixer would you recommend?
Post by: Luke Geis on January 22, 2013, 02:04:50 PM
The Midas has an adjustable Q for both it's sweep-able mids. I have found that when you run it at a very narrow Q, the eq doesn't react like I would expect it to. Perhaps good for monitor use, but I have had no luck with narrow Q's at FOH.

The A&H GL series seems to have a thing where the Q of the mids narrows as you decrease, or increase the gain of that frequency. I have found that when you have to cut or boost more than 6db in any of the two mid EQ's that it will sound good at first and then start to go nowhere rather quickly.

The larger Q's sound more musical, but can effect more frequencies than needed. The Midas sounds very sweet when using wide Q settings and the A&H of course has no adjustable Q. Both desks sound really good, It's just been my finding that if you start to play god with them, they will put you back on earth. I say, sounds great when used properly, you can call it whatever you like : )