ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => The Basement => Topic started by: Riley Casey on April 05, 2014, 12:47:47 PM

Title: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Riley Casey on April 05, 2014, 12:47:47 PM
There was a thread here recently about the trashing of the Guitar Center as a business with quite a few responses but my forum searches turn up squat so I'm dropping this in a new thread.  If someone with better search skills than I can find that thread please move this or link to it.

An article on the demise of Guitar Center by someone with some background in the financial analysis needed to understand it all.  He has a rather dire view of it.

http://www.ericgarland.co/2014/03/29/parasite-economy/
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Steve M Smith on April 05, 2014, 01:18:15 PM
I see a lot of references to Guitar Center on this forum.  Is this a national chain of shops?  Over here, Guitar Centre is just a generic term for a guitar shop.


Steve.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on April 05, 2014, 02:15:47 PM
http://soundforums.net/basement/9652-guitar-center-doomed.html (http://soundforums.net/basement/9652-guitar-center-doomed.html)
Perhaps you're looking for this one.

JR

PS: Yes GC is a national MI products chain in the US,  currently struggling with unfavorable market trends and too much debt on their balance sheet (like many countries.).
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 05, 2014, 02:48:15 PM
Riley, I think the thread you're looking for is at SFN.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Bob Leonard on April 05, 2014, 03:52:18 PM
I've been following this and the ramifications are much broader than many think. Being the largest of the big box retailers would seem to be a bragging point, but the problem lies in the overhead used to run these stores. There really isn't much markup on 90% of stuff sold at these places, and not a lot of people run to GC for a $30,000 Gibson. So until they can learn how to reduce the costs of all those hands on, free shipping, special items, and blowouts they'll have problems. Also be aware that MF is affiliated with GC, which = more overhead. And the biggest problem will be now that the premier products can't be found in 99% of the Mom&Pops every time a large box goes tit's up, so does the costs for these premium instruments.

Years ago M&P used to be able to handle the stocking costs levied by Gibson, Fender, etc.. Today M&P can't afford the 1/4 mil investment yearly so they abandon the line. When they abandon the line they also abandon the low cost goods the manufacture has to offer, such as Squire and Epiphone. You can't have one without the other.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Riley Casey on April 05, 2014, 04:47:22 PM
Tis indeed, thanks JR.  Just another senior moment I suppose.  :-[

http://soundforums.net/basement/9652-guitar-center-doomed.html (http://soundforums.net/basement/9652-guitar-center-doomed.html)
Perhaps you're looking for this one.

JR


Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Gus Housen on April 05, 2014, 05:07:59 PM
Years ago the stocking costs were worth it, when you had exclusive territory, and internet sales were nil.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Cailen Waddell on April 05, 2014, 11:46:04 PM
I have found that it is a rare day the GC will beat the prices I can get from the mom and pop vendors I have spent years working with, and spending with. 

Perhaps that's not the point of the this thread, perhaps it is...
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Bob Leonard on April 05, 2014, 11:54:28 PM
I wish that were the case in Boston Cailen. Go to an M&P and the price is either higher, the don't carry the line, or it's a special order.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Cailen Waddell on April 06, 2014, 12:08:28 AM
Bob - ill say that all of the mom and pops I work with aren't local to me (though one is in town), I work with about 3 vendors for sound, 3 for lighting...   But I also suppose that down south our real estate is cheaper and there is less overhead.  None of the vendors I work with have show rooms.  If I want a demo, they call the rep and I get it fedexed to me...  It's both less and more convenient. I can spend my time with a piece of gear but I have to really plan on what I want...

Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on April 06, 2014, 12:16:58 AM
I have been watching the slow demise of M&P distribution for the last few decades. The consumers of MI gear, not the more professional members here, buy commodity products predominantly on price, and they get that best price from the WWW.. They will probably end up buying from amazon or the last e-retailer standing. 

JR
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Tom Roche on April 07, 2014, 06:09:14 PM
For those intersted, Ares Management has taken control of GC.  Ares held most the GC's debt and worked a debt-to-equity deal that eliminates a big chunk of debt and reduces annual interest payments by $70 million.  Guess we'll see if the new management will work to eliminate more debt, which is the only way GC will survive IMO.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Brian Wynn on April 28, 2014, 01:13:26 PM
For those intersted, Ares Management has taken control of GC.  Ares held most the GC's debt and worked a debt-to-equity deal that eliminates a big chunk of debt and reduces annual interest payments by $70 million.  Guess we'll see if the new management will work to eliminate more debt, which is the only way GC will survive IMO.

Ares takes over and the next day they pull a huge line of credit with Wells Fargo something like 325 Million.  Back to the same old game.  I hope they go under sooner than later.

http://www.abladvisor.com/news/4381/wells-fargo-cf-arranges-325mm-credit-facility-for-guitar-center
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jamin Lynch on April 29, 2014, 03:52:34 PM
One thing I see as a "Pop" shop (no mom here) is this race to the bottom in quality and price. It seems like everything that is coming out lately is just total cheap crap and the customers are buying it up only because it's cheap.  Then get sticker shock when they come over here to look at the "good stuff" I carry...that is until they hear it live at one of my shows. Once they hear some good quality equipment, properly set up, they want it and often wonder why they went to "brand X" to start with. But then it's too late. As a specialty M&P shop, I can't and don't want to carry all the various low end stuff that everyone is buying.

I often see really goods bands that sound like crap due to their cheap P.O.S. system that was sold to them by someone who has no clue. A total turn off. Nobody wants to go out and see bands around here because of the poor sound quality. The bands have gotten too use to the low prices of this crap equipment...all it does is make noise, and not good noise.

 

Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Joseph D. Macry on April 29, 2014, 05:10:20 PM
I worked at Mars Music until they went into bankruptcy. Primary cause then was trying to expand too far, too fast. Also, wasting millions on naming rights to a stadium in Ft Lauderdale didn't help. The owner had previously built the Office Depot chain, and he wanted to do the same with Mars Music.
No, the gear isn't marked up much; it's pretty much marked at MAP and sometimes whittled down from there. The profit is in the accessories. Don't just sell a guitar, sell a guitar with spare strings, strap, case, stand, cable, etc etc etc.
FWIW, I bought my latest guitar from a small local shop, even though I found it on the internet for about 10% less. I just liked the guys at Larryland Music in Bastrop TX.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on April 29, 2014, 05:19:35 PM
I wish that were the case in Boston Cailen. Go to an M&P and the price is either higher, the don't carry the line, or it's a special order.
i dealt with that until 1987 when i moved to la and found GC. the other thing with indepndent stores was their jerk off attitude. they would never special order even if you offered to pay in advance. they always acted as if they were doing YOU a favor by having a store. the prices were always list with no discount and one store sold higher than list. one store told me if you dont like what we have leave and dont come back. GC made the independant stores become very humble and very nice and polite and caring to the customers and sell a little below list price.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Brian Wynn on May 02, 2014, 10:53:45 AM
i dealt with that until 1987 when i moved to la and found GC. the other thing with indepndent stores was their jerk off attitude. they would never special order even if you offered to pay in advance. they always acted as if they were doing YOU a favor by having a store. the prices were always list with no discount and one store sold higher than list. one store told me if you dont like what we have leave and dont come back. GC made the independant stores become very humble and very nice and polite and caring to the customers and sell a little below list price.

Im sorry that you experienced this but I can assure you that its not the case nation wide.  We have been in retail for 30 plus years and have never sold anything higher than MAPP.  If you like shopping at GC I say go ahead do it while you can because they WILL be gone soon.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 02, 2014, 04:06:34 PM
Im sorry that you experienced this but I can assure you that its not the case nation wide.  We have been in retail for 30 plus years and have never sold anything higher than MAPP.  If you like shopping at GC I say go ahead do it while you can because they WILL be gone soon.
well i hope they dont go under. that would cause me great inconvience. i live in la and their is a GC about 5 miles from me. they have the drum sticks , guitar picks, strings , etc i use. the "only" other store around my area is Sam Ash and its about 10 miles from me and SA doesnt stock anything i use. Pro Drum is about 20 miles away. this might not very far but in los angeles the freeway traffic can make PD a 1 very slow 1 hour trip each way plus the cost of time and gas. i have looked to eabay at these items i use but the prices are higher plus shipping and stuff. also ALL those employees that work at GC will be trying to figure how to pay rent if they go under. and this rumour about GC going under is all over the web and several friends of mine are now afraid to buy at GC and this had caused the store near me to be empty of customers and i know this because one of the DM's rents a room next door to me. 
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Ray Aberle on May 02, 2014, 04:39:16 PM
and this rumour about GC going under is all over the web and several friends of mine are now afraid to buy at GC and this had caused the store near me to be empty of customers and i know this because one of the DM's rents a room next door to me.

Your friends are idiots, then, because if they think that the goods they can purchase at GC are somehow "Tainted" because of these rumors that they might fold-- well,
a) A Shure SM58 will still work just fine after the person/company who sold it to you goes out of business... but more importantly
b) the best (Shure-fire? Haha) way to help them to not go out of business is to keep shopping there! Stop shopping there, their sales plummet, and sure enough you've made it come true: they close down.

If your friends want to be loyal to Banjo Hut, now's the time to show their loyalty.

-Ray
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 02, 2014, 04:55:42 PM
Your friends are idiots,
you really shouldnt be calling my friends that you dont know "idiots". you dont know them personally and one in particular doesnt like being called names. however you can call me anything you wish because i dont give a dam.

as for some people not wanting to go to GC after all this internet crap , well thats their decision. i'm going to GC later to some sticks, and bass strings and i am "The 1d10t" !
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Ray Aberle on May 02, 2014, 07:15:19 PM
you really shouldnt be calling my friends that you dont know "idiots". you dont know them personally and one in particular doesnt like being called names. however you can call me anything you wish because i dont give a dam.

as for some people not wanting to go to GC after all this internet crap , well thats their decision. i'm going to GC later to some sticks, and bass strings and i am "The 1d10t" !
No, I don't know your friends, but just re-read what I said. You stated what they are doing-- either you stated it wrong, or they don't get what's wrong with their decision to not support a company that they'd previously been loyal to, all because of some silly "rumors."

Your friends make their decisions; you apparently agree with them to make this decision. It's sad, though, that you don't realise the ramifications of the choices they're making. But here I go, using big words.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 02, 2014, 08:13:22 PM
you really shouldnt be calling my friends that you dont know "idiots". you dont know them personally and one in particular doesnt like being called names. however you can call me anything you wish because i dont give a dam.

as for some people not wanting to go to GC after all this internet crap , well thats their decision. i'm going to GC later to some sticks, and bass strings and i am "The 1d10t" !

(It is correctly spelled )  damn...

JR
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 02, 2014, 10:45:22 PM
No, I don't know your friends, but just re-read what I said. You stated what they are doing-- either you stated it wrong, or they don't get what's wrong with their decision to not support a company that they'd previously been loyal to, all because of some silly "rumors."

Your friends make their decisions; you apparently agree with them to make this decision. It's sad, though, that you don't realise the ramifications of the choices they're making. But here I go, using big words.
my comment had to do with ypu calling my friends IDIOTS when YOU do not know them.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 02, 2014, 10:45:59 PM
damn...

JR
explain your comment
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Brian Wynn on May 02, 2014, 11:23:23 PM
explain your comment

He knows how to spell damn in the correct context.

you really shouldnt be calling my friends that you dont know "idiots". you dont know them personally and one in particular doesnt like being called names. however you can call me anything you wish because i dont give a dam.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 02, 2014, 11:30:00 PM
He knows how to spell damn in the correct context.

you really shouldnt be calling my friends that you dont know "idiots". you dont know them personally and one in particular doesnt like being called names. however you can call me anything you wish because i dont give a dam.
thank you. i am from mississippi and was using the mississippi spelling we always used due to the religious atmosphere. i will use the california spelling from now own seeings how i live in california now. Jean Claude Van Damn
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Ray Aberle on May 03, 2014, 12:42:38 AM
my comment had to do with ypu calling my friends IDIOTS when YOU do not know them.
I love circular discussions when you refuse to read and comprehend what I wrote. You're the one who said that your friends are helping to contribute to the demise of GC... Oh well. I should have known better then to click on "Show me the post." I will resist the urge in the future.

-Ray
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 03, 2014, 02:28:39 AM
You're the one who said that your friends are helping to contribute to the demise of GC
-Ray
i know they are. i have suggest they join the forum. they read my post. it was "idiots" that you called them. if you had left out the idiot part i woulnt not have said any more.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Cailen Waddell on May 03, 2014, 08:00:10 AM
.... Flame suit on....

Girls you are both pretty. I see both sides.  Ray is saying that he perceives the actions of Jeff's friends to be idiotic.  Jeff took that to mean his friends were being called idiots.  We are all from different parts of the country, I won't pretend to understand why in LA (the state not the city, where half my family is from) people get offended if you even hint that you think they are stupid, but when I am on tour in the north, 'hey asshole' is a term of endearment. 

And I don't want anyone to explain that to me here either.  That is at least a 3 beer conversation and I am about to go load in a show.

Can we just agree to disagree here? I found this thread most interesting until people got their panties all bunched up.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 03, 2014, 10:22:43 AM
thank you. i am from mississippi and was using the mississippi spelling we always used due to the religious atmosphere. i will use the california spelling from now own seeings how i live in california now. Jean Claude Van Damn

I've lived in MS for 30 years and did not get that memo.  :o

JR
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: brian maddox on May 03, 2014, 11:22:13 AM
I've lived in MS for 30 years and did not get that memo.  :o

JR

John Roberts. For The Win.

As usual.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 03, 2014, 03:44:16 PM
I've lived in MS for 30 years and did not get that memo.  :o

JR
yeah well i was born in mccomb and grew up in jackson. i went to roman catholic schools and cussing was said to be a sin. i worked as a mechanic for a guy in jackson. i said dam(n) and the guy went beserk. he said i had just sinned. i thought real quick and told him i was thinking out loud about the dam at Ross Barnett resorvoir and that if we had another flood that dam would break. when ever i said damn from that time on and some religious person went beserk i just told them i was talking about the dam. we lived about 1 mile from the pearl about 2 miles north of lakeland dr. our house was on a high point and the flood didnt affect us. well i'm sorry you didnt get the memo about the dam. thats a damn shame to. btw , You do remember the flood of Jackson Mississippi dont you ? everybody got that memo.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: DavidTurner on May 03, 2014, 04:10:50 PM
There you go again...blaming your ignorance on your birthplace. I suspect Oprah knows the correct spelling, as do I, Geri O, Morgan Freeman, William Faulkner etc.

thank you. i am from mississippi and was using the mississippi spelling we always used due to the religious atmosphere. i will use the california spelling from now own seeings how i live in california now. Jean Claude Van Damn
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Ray Aberle on May 03, 2014, 05:55:07 PM
There you go again...blaming your ignorance on your birthplace. I suspect Oprah knows the correct spelling, as do I, Geri O, Morgan Freeman, William Faulkner etc.

Yeahhhh, in my case, that's why the ignore function got use in the first place. It's one thing to not know something, but to be unwilling to learn once you know your education is remiss in something? Either way, personally I would consider lying to be worse than using profane language, but I'm also not Catholic, so I don't know for sure what the priorities are in this situation.

-Ray
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 03, 2014, 08:47:06 PM
yeah well i was born in mccomb and grew up in jackson. i went to roman catholic schools and cussing was said to be a sin. i worked as a mechanic for a guy in jackson. i said dam(n) and the guy went beserk. he said i had just sinned. i thought real quick and told him i was thinking out loud about the dam at Ross Barnett resorvoir and that if we had another flood that dam would break. when ever i said damn from that time on and some religious person went beserk i just told them i was talking about the dam. we lived about 1 mile from the pearl about 2 miles north of lakeland dr. our house was on a high point and the flood didnt affect us. well i'm sorry you didnt get the memo about the dam. thats a damn shame to. btw , You do remember the flood of Jackson Mississippi dont you ? everybody got that memo.

Stop digging... blame it on auto-correct... that's what the cool kids do.

JR

Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 03, 2014, 09:51:02 PM
Stop digging... blame it on auto-correct... that's what the cool kids do.

JR
what be "otto-correct" ? i not know , i am a drummer.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Bob Leonard on May 03, 2014, 11:32:45 PM
Jeff,
You constantly embrace your joy in being, or pretending to be the village idiot. Guilty by association, your friends may be dumber than a box of rocks, or they may be the smartest people in the world and none of us would know. And birds of a feather DO flock together.

Your problem is that you constantly and with intent try to prove you are an idiot, the above being a prime example.

And just to put the icing on the cake, I have traveled throughout the USA and many countries and agree that location can indeed be a determining factor in the education, health, and prosperity of any individual. However, none of that need apply if an individual is determined to become more in life than what his immediate surroundings offer for choices.

In all honesty Jeff I'll bet you're a nice guy with a decent education. Keep in mind though that pretending to be stupid won't make you more popular, lower the rent, or make your life easier son. And, I agree that not shopping at a store because someone on the internet "thinks" the store is going out of business is in fact a decision based on stupidity.

Other than that have a great day.
Title: "Lifetime Warranty" (For the Lifetime of the Store...)
Post by: Russ Davis on May 04, 2014, 11:20:07 AM
...not shopping at a store because someone on the internet "thinks" the store is going out of business is in fact a decision based on stupidity.

Abandoning a store you otherwise like because its demise is likely is indeed dubious logic... however, I WOULD suggest saving your money on the store's optional extended warranty.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Richard Turner on May 04, 2014, 12:24:15 PM
more on topic.

Locally here there used to be 4 M&P stores before the internet

one was a mostly guitar and sheet music store who for the longest time thought it was their given right to charge MSRP +10% for freight and handling on stock , forget about a special order, they are no longer in business.

another was more of a PA rental house who had some sheet music and guitars and rented space to a luthier, it went out when the owner retired, guitar repair guy tried to carry on but soon realized he needed to just focus on his own business, the synergy worked well for them as a team with having one handle the others cash register or drop offs pick ups etc

third is still in business, selling off brand instruments, focusing on church and school sheet music, retailing some peavey /AA speakers but its a one woman shop and she'd just carrying on till retirement, writing is on the wall but she has her niche with the Christian market.

now the 4th one, talk about horrible, I've had them at the time rebox rental gear and sell it to me as new, caught themn out one time when an employee purposly left a rental rect in the box of an item for me to find. I had friends who in good faith took out rental gear, were sent a monitor with a smoked horn ( I tested it on arrival to the venue) and were told tough luck, it was on you to inspect the gear before leaving and were charged $100 repair fee. and many many other scams like that, I still see horrible systems in venues to this day from that place, was the kind of thing whatever was on the sales floor as dead stock was perfect for your install....
national chain gave that one the ultimatum sell out or be squeezed out. seeing as they had just invested in a new building with teaching area so the owner sold, not that it did him any good all the scheming and ripping people off, he was dead of cancer within a year of selling out, Karma is a biatch for sure.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Brian Wynn on May 05, 2014, 01:12:46 AM
My family owns a M&P store in Merrillville IN.  My father started the business with a partner 33 years ago.  In 1999 my father bought the partner out.  In 2007 (I think) GC moved in 2 miles from us.  We seem to have a good working relationship with the local GC.  They send people to us for repairs and we send them people that need something we don't have right now.  In 2007 we had 5 music stores in the area.  We are now down to two.  The other store that exists besides us does a few installs and lessons. 

As for our business.  Its booming, we have a lesson program, rentals, service for electronics and guitars, installations, and of course retail.  We picked our lines based on the lines that GC doest have.  And even the line we share they carry the lower end of them.  We concentrate on service and installations.  And the fact that my father learned long ago that guitars don't make you money.  PA sales and installations do.  I have been on the commercial side of the business for 13 years now.  My father is looking to retire within the next 5 years.  I plan on keeping the same basic business model.  Which is:

Sell at MAPP or better
Service everything we sell
Free rental program for purchases from us if items are being repaired
We are married to our installs
Know our products

If GC does really fold then I will get my pick and string sales back.  Great the guys I love to hate.  Buy 2 guitar picks form me and chew my ear for 2 hours telling me how great your les paul is and how it sounds like no other.  But got to keep everyone happy.  Wish me luck...

Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 05, 2014, 09:36:52 AM
My family owns a M&P store in Merrillville IN.  My father started the business with a partner 33 years ago.  In 1999 my father bought the partner out.  In 2007 (I think) GC moved in 2 miles from us.  We seem to have a good working relationship with the local GC.  They send people to us for repairs and we send them people that need something we don't have right now.  In 2007 we had 5 music stores in the area.  We are now down to two.  The other store that exists besides us does a few installs and lessons. 

As for our business.  Its booming, we have a lesson program, rentals, service for electronics and guitars, installations, and of course retail.  We picked our lines based on the lines that GC doest have.  And even the line we share they carry the lower end of them.  We concentrate on service and installations.  And the fact that my father learned long ago that guitars don't make you money.  PA sales and installations do.  I have been on the commercial side of the business for 13 years now.  My father is looking to retire within the next 5 years.  I plan on keeping the same basic business model.  Which is:

Sell at MAPP or better
Service everything we sell
Free rental program for purchases from us if items are being repaired
We are married to our installs
Know our products

If GC does really fold then I will get my pick and string sales back.  Great the guys I love to hate.  Buy 2 guitar picks form me and chew my ear for 2 hours telling me how great your les paul is and how it sounds like no other.  But got to keep everyone happy.  Wish me luck...
Sounds like you got the strategy figured out. The big chains generally will not compete with rentals or instal business. Lessons are a good traffic builder. I shared similar observations with Peavey dealers over ten years ago. The smart ones were already doing one or more, some are gone now.

I wouldn't completely dismiss the picks and strings, accessories are generally high margin business. 

JR
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on May 05, 2014, 04:24:26 PM
...and this rumour about GC going under is all over the web and several friends of mine are now afraid to buy at GC and this had caused the store near me to be empty of customers...

Perhaps your friends are afraid that they won't be able to get good service and advice if GC goes under. Where ARE they buying from? If it's from an M&P, they'll still be able to get service and advice, providing the M&P stays in business. If they are buying from the Internet, good luck on the service and advice.

If you value service and advice, don't buy from the Internet then bug the B&M store folks without supporting them financially. Otherwise they won't be there in the future, either. Consider the value of that advice and the convenience of a neighborhood store with knowledgeable staff; it probably is worth the 10% or so difference in price when compared to the Internet.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Jeff Bankston on May 05, 2014, 05:29:41 PM
Perhaps your friends are afraid that they won't be able to get good service and advice if GC goes under. Where ARE they buying from? If it's from an M&P, they'll still be able to get service and advice, providing the M&P stays in business. If they are buying from the Internet, good luck on the service and advice.

If you value service and advice, don't buy from the Internet then bug the B&M store folks without supporting them financially. Otherwise they won't be there in the future, either. Consider the value of that advice and the convenience of a neighborhood store with knowledgeable staff; it probably is worth the 10% or so difference in price when compared to the Internet.
i buy from who ever has what i want and that includes > Jammin Jersey(used instruments and PA) , GC , Pro Drum(exelent indepemdent shop) , ebay , US Speaker. all my drums, and amps havent ben made in years so i have to buy them used. i usually buy cymbals , guitars , mics , sticks , thrones , mixers , snakes , cable , etc. etc new and that means GC or the internet if GC or Pro Drum doesnt sell the brand. i prefer to buy in a store just in case i get a defective product or it gets damaged in shipping. GC and Pro Drum will special order anything i want if its from a vendor they buy from. also the shipping on some items is higer then the tax on some instore items.
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Bill Schnake on May 05, 2014, 10:48:48 PM
My family owns a M&P store in Merrillville IN.  My father started the business with a partner 33 years ago.  In 1999 my father bought the partner out.  In 2007 (I think) GC moved in 2 miles from us.  We seem to have a good working relationship with the local GC.  They send people to us for repairs and we send them people that need something we don't have right now.  In 2007 we had 5 music stores in the area.  We are now down to two.  The other store that exists besides us does a few installs and lessons. 

As for our business.  Its booming, we have a lesson program, rentals, service for electronics and guitars, installations, and of course retail.  We picked our lines based on the lines that GC doest have.  And even the line we share they carry the lower end of them.  We concentrate on service and installations.  And the fact that my father learned long ago that guitars don't make you money.  PA sales and installations do.  I have been on the commercial side of the business for 13 years now.  My father is looking to retire within the next 5 years.  I plan on keeping the same basic business model.  Which is:

Sell at MAPP or better
Service everything we sell
Free rental program for purchases from us if items are being repaired
We are married to our installs
Know our products


Brian, I was at your store a couple of weeks ago, you really are just 4 short hours from my house.  Anyway, your family has a wonderful business and I wish you and them nothing but success and smooth sailing.  BTW: your dad is much to young to retire in 5 years.

Bill  ;)
Title: Re: Guitar Center and financing woes thread
Post by: Brian Wynn on May 06, 2014, 12:20:01 AM
Brian, I was at your store a couple of weeks ago, you really are just 4 short hours from my house.  Anyway, your family has a wonderful business and I wish you and them nothing but success and smooth sailing.  BTW: your dad is much to young to retire in 5 years.

Bill  ;)

Thanks Bill.  I will let my dad know.