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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Helge A Bentsen on April 19, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
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Can you import a custom FIR into a LM26?
Seem to remember that I did it a few years back but now I had a look around Lake controller and couldn't figure out if it was possible.
Was it this box that needed a different software to load FIR filters?
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Can you import a custom FIR into a LM26?
Seem to remember that I did it a few years back but now I had a look around Lake controller and couldn't figure out if it was possible.
Was it this box that needed a different software to load FIR filters?
Hi Helge,
I was hoping someone else would have chimed in by now with first hand information, but as no one has I will relay some second hand info.
I talked to Rich Fremes (Fulcrum Acoustics) a few months back about this and this was his response was something to the effect of....No and from what we are hearing they never will...
I also talked to Michael Smithers (Eclipse Audio) and he mentioned that he is working on coding up something for his program (FIR Designer), but it will only work with the Lake FIR 3-way module, which only is currently supported by the PLM amplifiers, not the LMs. He did mention that even getting coefficients into the Lake FIR 3-way modules is going to be a pretty big undertaking, as its not anywhere near as simply as direct coefficient entry.
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Hi Helge,
I was hoping someone else would have chimed in by now with first hand information, but as no one has I will relay some second hand info.
I talked to Rich Fremes (Fulcrum Acoustics) a few months back about this and this was his response was something to the effect of....No and from what we are hearing they never will...
I also talked to Michael Smithers (Eclipse Audio) and he mentioned that he is working on coding up something for his program (FIR Designer), but it will only work with the Lake FIR 3-way module, which only is currently supported by the PLM amplifiers, not the LMs. He did mention that even getting coefficients into the Lake FIR 3-way modules is going to be a pretty big undertaking, as its not anywhere near as simply as direct coefficient entry.
The LM26 does 3 way FIR :) ... my understanding of the situation regarding down loading coefficients is exactly the same as yours. I suspect that now its a Behringer / Music Group product there will be even less chance ...
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Thanks for the replies.
I've got confirmation from a couple of sources that this is not possible right now, but "maybe someday" :)
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Thanks for the replies.
I've got confirmation from a couple of sources that this is not possible right now, but "maybe someday" :)
Hi Helge,
May be it is time to add some dedicated FIR unit to your setup to take full advantages from FIR power?
BR,
Raimonds
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Hi Helge,
May be it is time to add some dedicated FIR unit to your setup to take full advantages from FIR power?
BR,
Raimonds
I have various Powersoft amps that can do FIR, but this time I wanted to test something on a pair of active speakers.
Looks like it will be either a Apex IntelliX or just a DI box on the amp output with 40dB pad for this test.
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I have various Powersoft amps that can do FIR, but this time I wanted to test something on a pair of active speakers.
Looks like it will be either a Apex IntelliX or just a DI box on the amp output with 40dB pad for this test.
If it's just for experimenting / learning, the miniDSP units offer a hell of alot more FIR than anything I've been able to find.......Apex, Xilica, and what little FIR capability is imbedded in amplifiers. The APL1s, and the Four Audio HD2 with it's unusual down-sampling technique, might be the comparative exceptions.
If your active speaker testing is multichannel, I'd recommend the OpenDRC DA-8 https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-da8
If you're applying global correction to the speaker that corrects in-place active or passive x-over/processing,
I'd go with a 2 channel OpenDRC, .... choosing whatever I/O option works for you.
Here's digital I/O for an example..https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-di
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I have various Powersoft amps that can do FIR, but this time I wanted to test something on a pair of active speakers.
Looks like it will be either a Apex IntelliX or just a DI box on the amp output with 40dB pad for this test.
Hi Helge,
Such setup is too much complex to have a reliable result : )
Any convolution plugin can serve this function. I can help you with one.
But most important thing is not a fir filter as processing unit but how to create its coefficients.
This is very tricky because the power and possibilities of fir are so high that it may "destroy" your system.
The predistortions of fir EQ (any EQ as well) must be respective to distortions of your system. They will compensate each other in such case.
Otherwise, you will have new additional distortions created by improper EQ.
How do you create fir for your test?
BR,
Raimonds
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The plan is to capture a trace from the DUT with Smaart and process it with FIR Designer.
DUT in this case is a stereo playback system with a sub and one listener.
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The plan is to capture a trace from the DUT with Smaart and process it with FIR Designer.
DUT in this case is a stereo playback system with a sub and one listener.
FWIW - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LLYkGj7Zbk
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Hi Helge,
Such setup is too much complex to have a reliable result : )
Any convolution plugin can serve this function. I can help you with one.
But most important thing is not a fir filter as processing unit but how to create its coefficients.
This is very tricky because the power and possibilities of fir are so high that it may "destroy" your system.
The predistortions of fir EQ (any EQ as well) must be respective to distortions of your system. They will compensate each other in such case.
Otherwise, you will have new additional distortions created by improper EQ.
How do you create fir for your test?
BR,
Raimonds
Hi Raimonds,
Here is the link to FIR designer that Helge mentioned https://eclipseaudio.com.au/fir-designer/
BTW still getting great results with TDA and TDA EQ :)
Regards
Peter
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Hi Raimonds,
Here is the link to FIR designer that Helge mentioned https://eclipseaudio.com.au/fir-designer/
BTW still getting great results with TDA and TDA EQ :)
Regards
Peter
TDA EQ looks interesting. What do you think of it?
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TDA EQ looks interesting. What do you think of it?
TDA EQ uses a logarithmic sine wave sweep to determine the speaker’s frequency response. I think there are advantages with this approach especially when measuring lower frequencies.
When I set up speakers with TDA EQ my results are better than when I have just used Smaart or Systune.
One of the things I especially like is being able to see what is happening in the time domain, you can see resonant issues and where there are reflections.
With a log sweep it’s also possible to determine the distortion products, I don’t have this option but the later versions do.
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TDA EQ uses a logarithmic sine wave sweep TDA EQ to determine the speaker’s frequency response. I think there are advantages with this approach especially when measuring lower frequencies.
When I set up speakers with TDA EQ my results are better than when I have just used Smaart or Systune.
One of the things I especially like is being able to see what is happening in the time domain, you can see resonant issues and where there are reflections.
With a log sweep it’s also possible to determine the distortion products, I don’t have this option but the later versions do.
Interesting.
One of the things I'm trying to address is an easier way of identifying frequencies in the low end that sounds wrong because they have different decay times than the rest of the spectrum around them.
Right now I'm using the Spectrograph in Smaart but it's not as fast as I wish.
Can TDA EQ help with this you think?
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Interesting.
One of the things I'm trying to address is an easier way of identifying frequencies in the low end that sounds wrong because they have different decay times than the rest of the spectrum around them.
Right now I'm using the Spectrograph in Smaart but it's not as fast as I wish.
Can TDA EQ help with this you think?
Here is measurement I made, and an example of one of the TDA EQ screen displays ... as this topic is on FIR correction, you can see what the Lake's FIR filters can do.
This link may also be of interest - https://soundforums.net/forum/pro-audio/product-reviews/205223-a-new-way-of-looking-at-speakers-and-rooms-review-of-apl-tda