ProSoundWeb Community
Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Installed Sound/Contracting => Topic started by: charliebabb on August 12, 2014, 02:08:34 AM
-
Hi, im reinforcing my small venue with new speakers. I was wondering how many line array speakers, 8" or 12" JBL, it would take to satisfy a 500 sq foot venue. I was planning on just placing the speakers in front of my stage. I recently attended a concert where they had only 4 jbl 12" line array speakers placed in front of the stage and the venue was twice the size.
Thanks for the advice,
Charlie
-
Line array speakers would be entirely wrong for a room of that size. The fewer speakers - the better it will sound, and a room of that size can easily be done with one point source box pr. side (for tops) - unless the room has a really weird layout in which case you could need fills somewhere, still not a line array. Besides, I'm guessing the JBL-boxes you're thinking of are the VRX-series, which are not line-arrays but constant curvature arrays. Go with one good box pr. side.
-
Line array speakers would be entirely wrong for a room of that size. The fewer speakers - the better it will sound, and a room of that size can easily be done with one point source box pr. side (for tops) - unless the room has a really weird layout in which case you could need fills somewhere, still not a line array. Besides, I'm guessing the JBL-boxes you're thinking of are the VRX-series, which are not line-arrays but constant curvature arrays. Go with one good box pr. side.
Okay got ya on that. I forgot to add that my venue is outdoors, if that changes anything.
Thanks
-
Not really - only that you'll need more power than indoors, but still it's well within the capabilities of many point source boxes, even if you need really loud.
-
How loud, what type of music, how much bass? Where are you located? Budget? Sound quality expectations?
-
Hi, im reinforcing my small venue with new speakers. I was wondering how many line array speakers, 8" or 12" JBL, it would take to satisfy a 500 sq foot venue. I was planning on just placing the speakers in front of my stage. I recently attended a concert where they had only 4 jbl 12" line array speakers placed in front of the stage and the venue was twice the size.
Thanks for the advice,
Charlie
If your room is only about 22'x22' then there are much better approaches than a "line array".
You have to provide much more information before you EVEN BEGIN to think about what size woofers you should use.
You MUST answer things like "how large is the ACTUAL area that needs to be covered in relation to the stage". Is it square- or wide and shallow or narrow and deep?
What is the intended usage-light jazz? EDM? comedy club? pop rock? etc.
Do you have a budget in mind? If so-what is the budget JUST FOR THE SPEAKERS/AMPS/PROCESSING? Remember that install will cost extra.
Not to be mean-but woofer size is the least of your concerns right now and it often has little baring on the overall SYSTEM. The SYSTEM and how well it works for YOUR needs is the concern.
Just like cylinders in a car-that has little bearing on how fast it will go. Yes often more can provide more horsepower-but there are a lot of other things that determine how fast it will go.
Small light 4 cylinder cars can easily outrun heavier 8 cylinder vehicles. And we don't know if you are talking about a sports car or a dump truck at this point.
-
The answer is 48.
-
The answer is 48.
I thought the best number was 73
-
I thought the best number was 73
I'd go with the Ford Escort...
Bazinga!!!
-
If your room is only about 22'x22' then there are much better approaches than a "line array".
You have to provide much more information before you EVEN BEGIN to think about what size woofers you should use.
You MUST answer things like "how large is the ACTUAL area that needs to be covered in relation to the stage". Is it square- or wide and shallow or narrow and deep?
What is the intended usage-light jazz? EDM? comedy club? pop rock? etc.
Do you have a budget in mind? If so-what is the budget JUST FOR THE SPEAKERS/AMPS/PROCESSING? Remember that install will cost extra.
Not to be mean-but woofer size is the least of your concerns right now and it often has little baring on the overall SYSTEM. The SYSTEM and how well it works for YOUR needs is the concern.
Just like cylinders in a car-that has little bearing on how fast it will go. Yes often more can provide more horsepower-but there are a lot of other things that determine how fast it will go.
Small light 4 cylinder cars can easily outrun heavier 8 cylinder vehicles. And we don't know if you are talking about a sports car or a dump truck at this point.
My apologies, the venue is 7,500 sq ft, not 500 and outdoors.
-
My apologies, the venue is 7,500 sq ft, not 500 and outdoors.
Well that changes things, but we STILL have no idea what the size of the coverage area is.
OR your budget
OR the type of music (if it is a music venue)
WHERE you can put speakers (since it is outside) Do you have fly points or structure? If so what sort of weight is it rated for (outside of current load?
DETAILS MATTER if you want answers that mean anything------------------
-
Well that changes things, but we STILL have no idea what the size of the coverage area is.
OR your budget
OR the type of music (if it is a music venue)
WHERE you can put speakers (since it is outside) Do you have fly points or structure? If so what sort of weight is it rated for (outside of current load?
DETAILS MATTER if you want answers that mean anything------------------
My budget is low. No more than 5 grand on speakers. The venue will play mostly alternative rock, country, and reggae. I can fly speakers with my structure. A more accurate measurment is around 6,700 sq ft. i attached a drawing.
Thanks for the help
-
Sorry it is kind of small on the first one
-
It doesn't matter how many line array speakers it takes, for 5 grand you can't afford them.
Does that number include amps and processing? Rigging hardware?
-
No just speakers. The reason I'm asking is because I saw a venue twice my size with only four jbl speakers placed in front of the stage and it was poppin.
-
Sorry it is kind of small on the first one
AGAIN-DETAILS are important.
It says the dept "might" be a 70' wall. Is that the whole wall length? or the distance from the front of the stage?
You say you can fly-but how high can you fly them?
What is the weight limit of the structure you are flying from?
5K is very low. You will need mains and subs and amps and processing and wire etc. You will be limited to bottom of the barrel type of gear.
-
No just speakers. The reason I'm asking is because I saw a venue twice my size with only four jbl speakers placed in front of the stage and it was poppin.
So do you already have amps and processing? If so-then what do you have?
AGAIN DETAILS REALLY HELP PEOPLE HELP YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JBL makes a lot of different speakers at lots of different price points. Some of their larger speakers are about twice your budget FOR ONE-NOT a whole system!
It is NOT the quantity-but rather the type/quality etc.
-
I understand that. All I want to know is if anyone or anybody has ran line array speakers set in front of the stage, just like I have mentioned.
-
I understand that. All I want to know is if anyone or anybody has ran line array speakers set in front of the stage, just like I have mentioned.
Probably yes...
Was it right for the job? Maybe...
Can you afford any of it for 5K? Possibly a pair of VRX if you shop around, does 15' vertical coverage sound adequate?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I understand that. All I want to know is if anyone or anybody has ran line array speakers set in front of the stage, just like I have mentioned.
This is the first time you have asked "if anyone has ran line array speakers in front of the stage". So no wonder you don't have a response.
And yes putting the speakers in front of the stage is generally the way they are placed.
AGAIN DETAILS-You have not given ANY indication as to where the fly points are that you could hang from----------
WITHOUT DETAILS you are not going to get many useful answers-sorry.
It is like asking 5 questions to partially get ONE answer.
-
Based on the sketch and budget, your best bet if you have to buy new is to provide all that money into top speakers. Then later double that much into subs.
Since you said speakers, not amps and DSP, look at passive and efficient. New Danley SM80's, used Community SLS920's, etc. If you include amps/DSP budget, maybe RCF TT5A's. Even used SRX/QRX.
Not ideal, but close to your parameters, and if operated within limits, should work well.
-
No just speakers. The reason I'm asking is because I saw a venue twice my size with only four jbl speakers placed in front of the stage and it was poppin.
Charlie, does that mean the 4 speakers were placed across the width of the stage?
How tall was the stage?
While I think of it... $5k isn't enough to do what you saw (and I don't think you saw everything, this sounds more like a "front fill" deployment). New, the VRX932LA is $2200 and the powered version is $2700.
Back to not seeing everything - what about subwoofers? Any content below 80Hz? If there was, it wasn't coming from the VRX.
What's the chance you can get a "lights-on" visit at the venue?
-
Charlie, does that mean the 4 speakers were placed across the width of the stage?
How tall was the stage?
While I think of it... $5k isn't enough to do what you saw (and I don't think you saw everything, this sounds more like a "front fill" deployment). New, the VRX932LA is $2200 and the powered version is $2700.
Back to not seeing everything - what about subwoofers? Any content below 80Hz? If there was, it wasn't coming from the VRX.
What's the chance you can get a "lights-on" visit at the venue?
And while he is there he could ask what they spent or at least get some model numbers to START a conversation.
-
I understand that. All I want to know is if anyone or anybody has ran line array speakers set in front of the stage, just like I have mentioned.
Charlie,
I have, below is a picture of my system during sound check for Lake Street Drive last Sunday- what a great band and crew, Jason Raboin mixing FOH, Luke Milanese monitors.
The picture was taken about 75 foot back from the stage, coverage was clear and even to the back of the venue, 150' from stage.
I "came out of retirement" for the show, the complete system is available for sale, two of the line array cabinets are not visible, covering a dance floor area house right.
Although the system is listed for more than your budget, I'm willing to negotiate :).
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,151006.0.html
A new JBL line array system with similar output and line length would be around 8 times my asking price.
Art
-
Check your link Art. I keep getting a "Missing or Off Limits" notification on IE and FF.
-
Check your link Art. I keep getting a "Missing or Off Limits" notification on IE and FF.
Thanks, Lee- the ad was posted 2/28/14, I guess nothing lasts forever, even here..
I have updated it:
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,151006.0.html
Art
-
Thanks, Lee- the ad was posted 2/28/14, I guess nothing lasts forever, even here..
I have updated it:
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,151006.0.html
Art
Art - I think you meant "Lake Street Dive" and yes Rachael has an amazing voice.