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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: tkroeker on April 11, 2015, 06:16:38 PM
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need help with what level most cell phone headphone outs are and what to use to hook to console or standard line ins. Seems like with the cell output low and the system high vs the other way around has no difference. Possible RDL solution or what.
Thanks
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Not clear what phones you're using or what consoles but I have no trouble getting a solid -15 or so level out of assorted iPhones, iPads and iPods. Well within the gain range make up of the Yamaha and soundcraft consoles we use. Yes, if you want to drive a power amp to full output you'll likely need a gain stage in there.
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need help with what level most cell phone headphone outs are and what to use to hook to console or standard line ins. Seems like with the cell output low and the system high vs the other way around has no difference. Possible RDL solution or what.
Thanks
How long is the run?
I just make my own cables, a 1/8" to a pair of XLRs, wired pin 2 hot, pin 3 gnd.
It works great.
If you need a mono connection, then put a series resistor (a couple hundred ohms or so) for each channel and then parallel them.
Again pin 2 hot, pin 3 ground.
I leave pin 1 floating in both cases.
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Does the console have a stereo in channel strip? I just use the TS to minijack, no point in XLR since it's not balanced, unless if it's only XLR inputs, then DI it in.
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http://procosound.com/iface
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I would do mini to ts before I did mini to xlr because of the possibility of phantom on the xlrs. Many device outputs can't tolerate the phantom power.
I use a radial pro av to convert to balanced if I am going to send the signal any distance.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
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I would do mini to ts before I did mini to xlr because of the possibility of phantom on the xlrs. Many device outputs can't tolerate the phantom power.
That is why I have it wired between pins 2 and 3 and NOT attached to pin 1.
There is 0V difference between pins 2 and 3. Phantom is only applied with respect to pin 1
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Yep, it works for your cable and then someone else sees it and makes another with pin one connected...
I would rather totally avoid it so there is no doubt especially as a traveling tech you rarely know the background of any cables you are provided.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
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Except for the XLRs This is basicly what I am doing. I will do some testing to provide more info.
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I have petsonaly damaged 2 or 3 smartphones and at least one PC sound card with 48v... I've found that I genetaly avoid minijat to xlr cables. And if for some reason I MUST use one there's check, double and tripple check like the lifes of the Apollo 11 crew was on line. ;)
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I usually use an iPod dock, but have used a smartphone headphone jack with a Y Cable / 1/8" TRS Male - Dual 1/4" TS Male like the Hosa CMP153 or CMP159. No problems with any of the consoles that I use regularly and this setup.
-Scott
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I have a transformer in a box. Not an audio transformer but a 240 volt primary, 12 volt secondary, 15VA mains transformer.
Right and left connect to the 240v winding via 100 ohm resistors and the 12v winding connects to pins 2 and 3 of an XLR connector.
Pin 1 used to connect to ground but I had a weird noise problem with a laptop so I disconnected it. It will stay disconnected until I have a problem which requires it to be connected again - although I can't imagine what that will be.
Due to a friend giving me some of his old gear, I now have about ten of the Peavey plug in isolating transformers (CS800) so I will probably build some of those into some universal isolation adaptors.
Steve.
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I have petsonaly damaged 2 or 3 smartphones and at least one PC sound card with 48v... I've found that I genetaly avoid minijat to xlr cables. And if for some reason I MUST use one there's check, double and tripple check like the lifes of the Apollo 11 crew was on line. ;)
I blew up an iPad 2 Friday night like this. The drummer asked me (I was just hired as a walk up) if by any chance I had a condenser for his hats. Mainly he wanted them in the IEM's for timing.
They had a Macke DL1604, phantom is an all or nothing affair. Everything was fine with whatever device they were using to start but the guitar player had some track he wanted to use on his iPad, plugged it in and poof no sound.
Reminds my why favors can bite you. I offered to buy him a new one as they are an important client. The guitar player took responsibility and said it wasn't my fault. They didn't cancel any bookings for the summer so it could have been worse.
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Horizon/rapco makes a little unit that has a 1/8" on one end and MXLR on the other. The box has a level control and an isolation transformer.
The problem with it is the level loss-due to the impedance transfermation.
It comes out mic level.
My method allows you get a pretty strong signal out, so you can plug it directly into a amp and get pretty decent level.
If you into the input of a DSP, with some gain boost on the front end of the DSP, you can drive a system to full level.
It all depends on what you are doing. Since I am not in the system rental business, I often just plug into the input of the DSP to check things out. I need a strong level and this gives me that. And there is no phantom on the input to most DSP's (except those with mic level inputs)
So as usual-the correct answer is "it depends".
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Fiio E18 in DAC mode into a Radial JPC. High bitrate or lossless audio files.
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I prefer to go 1/8" to RCA or TS and into a DI box with a transformer. Lately it's been the switchcraft SC700. I emphasis the transformer because many of the laptops and phones I've dealt with have major ground problems when you plug them in for charging. I'll also point out that I've never had that problem with any apple laptops, going back to G4's.
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I emphasis the transformer because many of the laptops and phones I've dealt with have major ground problems when you plug them in for charging.
Exactly the problem I had which required me to disconnect the ground on my transformer interface. The noise was a bit like the sound a mobile phone induces into a system but as if played at half speed - and this was either from its direct headphone socket or a USB output device. I'm 99% sure it originated in the switch mode power supply of the charger.
Steve.
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I always try to use a transformer interface of some kind.
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Bear in mind that the transformer on its own will not necessarily guarantee a noise free operation. Sometimes a ground lift is required as well.
Steve.
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I have a Radial PCDI for my Swiss army DI.
Mostly I use Radial SB-5 for hooking up MP3 players and such. Nice and small and not too expensive.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Bear in mind that the transformer on its own will not necessarily guarantee a noise free operation. Sometimes a ground lift is required as well.
Steve.
Correct.
TX iso GND lifted.
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"Sound quality", "cell phone" and "headphone out" are mutually exclusive terms...
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I have been using Send Station for years.
https://www.sendstation.com
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need help with what level most cell phone headphone outs are and what to use to hook to console or standard line ins. Seems like with the cell output low and the system high vs the other way around has no difference. Possible RDL solution or what.
Thanks
it's a bit bulky, but two 1:1 iso transformers and all the different connectors you could want on both sides.
http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/audio_solutions/product/dti/
with it an iphone can easily drive most power amps to full output. also has great fidelity, not jensen transformers, but 10hz at 10v didn't show saturation when I scoped mine.
I recommend taking it apart and potting the transformers in immediately. I dropped one and lost a channel.
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Another option in the iPad world is to use the camera connector and an external class compliant USB audio interface. This puts the AD/DA in an external device with balanced I/O. I have done this with the old style connector, I haven't tried the newer lightning-USB cable.
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"Sound quality", "cell phone" and "headphone out" are mutually exclusive terms...
Good point Dick.
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Good point Dick.
The A/D is a good suggestion. I just got the Android 5 Lollipop upgrade pushed to a Samsung Galaxy Note 4.
5.0 supports external DAC's I happen to have a Tascam and it worked like a champ. I didn't want to blow up my phone so I used a powered hub.
What I am now going to do is take one of those giant batteries with the USB connector on it, hot glue gun a little USB hub to the top of it and then velcro the Tascam. Now I can use that for music in between sets for 10 hours without having to worry about the battery life.
Don't forget to turn the phone off. I have gotten phone calls when my phone was on a board. Embarrassing to say the least.
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I have never been happier with the Rolls AV Presenter.
Sums to mono which saves on channel count
Ground lift for noisy laptop power supplies
Left/Right Volume controls before sum
3.5mm in, RCA in and loop out.
Very affordable and freaking tiny
(http://i.imgur.com/iiVViIJ.jpg)
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Don't forget to turn the phone off. I have gotten phone calls when my phone was on a board. Embarrassing to say the least.
We generally use my son's i-phone for music. I usually ask him if it is off about ten times.
Steve.
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We generally use my son's i-phone for music. I usually ask him if it is off about ten times.
Steve.
I always make people put their phones in airplane mode and vibrate before connecting it up to a console. Not only a call or text message, but an alert or email can trigger unwanted sounds.
-Scott
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"Sound quality", "cell phone" and "headphone out" are mutually exclusive terms...
Agreed.
If we reframe the question it is "How can I get professional sound 'quality' - itself a wildly fungible concept - from an inherently design-compromised, consumer item, that should not be placed in mission-critical, paying-customer situations?"
Even if only for walk-in music, that is prime pre-show eat/pee/poop time. I don't wish to be recalled because a cheap and convenient device is on the stick.
OTOH - If someone insists on this, I have on hand 3 meter Hosa HD stereo 1/8" - 2 x XLRM terminated by 2 x IL19 transformers. Never any issue....and take the goddam case off the phone.
PSS - And Thank You! Mr. I-Me-Mine Travelling Soundperson for introducing the most germ-laden/invasive-species/Ebola-tinged electronic disease-sponge possible into our hot and enclosed mixing space. You did wipe it down with Purell before you asked me to "Just hit Play...?" No? Then why not just bring the toilet seat(s) from the plane in here and have us "shake hands" with it?!
Sorry bro, but I have a mortgage, wife, and kids in college. You may have unknown Thai sex workers in your recent past. And that cough isn't reassuring!
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Agreed.
If we reframe the question it is "How can I get professional sound 'quality' - itself a wildly fungible concept - from an inherently design-compromised, consumer item, that should not be placed in mission-critical, paying-customer situations?"
Even if only for walk-in music, that is prime pre-show eat/pee/poop time. I don't wish to be recalled because a cheap and convenient device is on the stick.
OTOH - If someone insists on this, I have on hand 3 meter Hosa HD stereo 1/8" - 2 x XLRM terminated by 2 x IL19 transformers. Never any issue....and take the goddam case off the phone.
It would be interesting to see the impulse response and frequency response of the different types of phones out there. I have a iPhone5 and might just load a log sweep on there and see what it looks like after it runs through gratisvolver.
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I have never been happier with the Rolls AV Presenter.
Sums to mono which saves on channel count
Ground lift for noisy laptop power supplies
Left/Right Volume controls before sum
3.5mm in, RCA in and loop out.
Very affordable and freaking tiny
I have one of those and I really like it. If the console doesn’t have RCA or ¼” inputs and I don’t have one of the Whirlwind pcDI or podDI available I will use the Rolls device.
For curiosity sake I tested the Rolls with SMAART and it does roll off the low end. Maybe that’s why it’s a Rolls ;-). I didn’t save the trace. I still like it. I haven’t tested the Whirlwind ones yet.
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Though these are overkill for most, I have a couple with XLR outputs (pro model) and they sound quite nice.
http://centrance.com/products/hifi-m8/
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How long is the run?
I just make my own cables, a 1/8" to a pair of XLRs, wired pin 2 hot, pin 3 gnd.
It works great.
If you need a mono connection, then put a series resistor (a couple hundred ohms or so) for each channel and then parallel them.
Again pin 2 hot, pin 3 ground.
I leave pin 1 floating in both cases.
No pin 1, so no phantom as long as a grounded charger/PSU isn't in the system.
Brilliant. Last night I fixed my show-bag cables to be the same way.
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Though these are overkill for most, I have a couple with XLR outputs (pro model) and they sound quite nice.
http://centrance.com/products/hifi-m8/
This is a DAC isn't it? It claims to work with an iPod, but an iPod doesn't support an external DAC.
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Apparently as an audio player an iPhone 5 is not that bad. As long as it's got good source material.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm
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OK more understanding of my situation. HTC cell phone, headphone out, I used an RDL STA-1 Universal line amplifier into a commercial 100 watt amp...The RDL gave it better volume wich does clean it up since it doesnt need to be turned up... The sound just seems like its Trash in Trash out.
I am working on a custom tool box design that would have really nice and loud systems. Most people are going to want to slap their cell onto it. I want to have boxes out there that sound good if they do.
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Apparently as an audio player an iPhone 5 is not that bad. As long as it's got good source material.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm
FWIW, If you are a photographer, particularly a Nikon'er, Ken Rockwell's site is full of great advice/tips. I really like his writing style.
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FWIW, If you are a photographer, particularly a Nikon'er, Ken Rockwell's site is full of great advice/tips. I really like his writing style.
As the owner of 70+ film cameras (some of them Nikon) I fall into that category. I like Ken Rockwell but there is a surprising amount of hate for him and his writing style on photography forums.
Steve.
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OK more understanding of my situation. HTC cell phone, headphone out, I used an RDL STA-1 Universal line amplifier into a commercial 100 watt amp...The RDL gave it better volume wich does clean it up since it doesnt need to be turned up... The sound just seems like its Trash in Trash out.
I am working on a custom tool box design that would have really nice and loud systems. Most people are going to want to slap their cell onto it. I want to have boxes out there that sound good if they do.
In a nutshell:
Not enough make/model input from you.
Wrong forum.
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This was helpful. Sometimes the sound of the end result for us old musicians is hard to put into words. I have been trying to use the 600Ohm in on a PASO 2120 and I did get this from HTC a little bit ago if antone needs in the future:
HTC one headphone out.
the dynamic range (16/24 bits) = 94/96dB at 600Ohm
The impedance out (<1% THD+N)= 2.8mW at 600 Ohm
Output Voltage (<1% THD+N) = 1.298Vrms at 600 Ohm