ProSoundWeb Community
Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: David Parker on February 17, 2014, 08:17:02 AM
-
Had a gig Saturday, one of my regular bands playing in a Hotel in Galveston, a pre-mardi gras party. Average age at the party was about 50. Small room, maybe 60 in there. Band goes on and the complaints are almost immediate, too loud. I have to address the band, because the majority of the volume is coming off the stage. This band has two members who switch off on bass guitar. I got the one bassist calmed down, nice level, fitting in the mix. then they do the swap, and the other bassist "has to have energy". Hmmm! That energy is just about to get us all kicked out! He was using an 8-10 cab and standing right in front of it. Whew! I wish there was some way to let these type musicians experience what they put me through! And how their failure to listen to me ruins the band's sound.
-
Good luck buddy!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Good luck buddy!
To much rig for the gig. A 2 x 10 would have been too much. Let them decide if they want to gig or just play loud in their basements. And as stated. good luck.
-
Good luck buddy!
To much rig for the gig. A 2 x 10 would have been too much. Let them decide if they want to gig or just play loud in their basements. And as stated. good luck.
THIS.
-
Good luck buddy!
To much rig for the gig. A 2 x 10 would have been too much. Let them decide if they want to gig or just play loud in their basements. And as stated. good luck.
This band plays all the time and has for several years, but mostly in places where they like it loud. A lot of great places in Houston to play where the volume has to be under control. I've worked in several of them with bands a little more compliant Some folks you just can't convince.
-
This band plays all the time and has for several years, but mostly in places where they like it loud. A lot of great places in Houston to play where the volume has to be under control. I've worked in several of them with bands a little more compliant Some folks you just can't convince.
I play with a 1X12" 400w bass amp combo (direct feed to PA) with very little stage volume.. !! Having been on both sides of the stage, I'm probably far more aware of it than most I have played on stage with over the yrs.. not all.. but most. Cranking it is what the PA is for.. :)
One of the guitar players (the one next to me on stage) has the same problem as ur bass player, and also insists on being cranked in the single wedge in front us both.. How much "ME" does he need??? I NEED to hear the other guitar player plus vocals (I do backing in this band), and I can hear him plenty on stage.. He gets pretty loud.. to the point of having put an amp shield up in front of his Doc Z. It's not too bad in the larger venues we play, but in club/bars we play it's very annoying. Plus, the band mixes from stage (other guitar manages mix) in those venues to reduce overhead!
David.. I feel for ya.. really!
-
I play with a 1X12" 400w bass amp combo (direct feed to PA) with very little stage volume.. !! Having been on both sides of the stage, I'm probably far more aware of it than most I have played on stage with over the yrs.. not all.. but most. Cranking it is what the PA is for.. :)
One of the guitar players (the one next to me on stage) has the same problem as ur bass player, and also insists on being cranked in the single wedge in front us both.. How much "ME" does he need??? I NEED to hear the other guitar player plus vocals (I do backing in this band), and I can hear him plenty on stage.. He gets pretty loud.. to the point of having put an amp shield up in front of his Doc Z. It's not too bad in the larger venues we play, but in club/bars we play it's very annoying. Plus, the band mixes from stage (other guitar manages mix) in those venues to reduce overhead!
David.. I feel for ya.. really!
the bad thing is they are a really good band. The bassist in question gets a wedge with his own mix, and in addition, has inears with another mix. Glad he didn't ask for bass in his wedge. He's done that before. Another thing, with the 8-10 cab, he doesn't need it that loud to hear it. It's a solid wall of sound directly behind him.
-
Had a gig Saturday, one of my regular bands playing in a Hotel in Galveston, a pre-mardi gras party. Average age at the party was about 50. Small room, maybe 60 in there. Band goes on and the complaints are almost immediate, too loud. I have to address the band, because the majority of the volume is coming off the stage. This band has two members who switch off on bass guitar. I got the one bassist calmed down, nice level, fitting in the mix. then they do the swap, and the other bassist "has to have energy". Hmmm! That energy is just about to get us all kicked out! He was using an 8-10 cab and standing right in front of it. Whew! I wish there was some way to let these type musicians experience what they put me through! And how their failure to listen to me ruins the band's sound.
I gave up a while back trying to get the band to turn down. They get pissed off at you and cop an attitude......5 minutes later they turn it back up any way.
Nobody wins.
-
I gave up a while back trying to get the band to turn down. They get pissed off at you and cop an attitude......5 minutes later they turn it back up.
that's quite often the case. My last resort is to ask them to turn down, because of what you say. Usually it's right back where it was in no time. I've been with this band about 5 years, and consider them friends. It was a tiny room and they needed to help me out. I had no trouble with the guitar players.
-
Houston and surrounding areas have a lot of talented musicians, but also a lot of truly ignorant musicians as well. I played a gig in Kemah Friday with a band that is pretty much typical for "throwdown" bands. Good drummer, but had a snare that would rip your ears off 50ft away (and he was bragging about it). Guitar player had a Twin Reverb and put the amp as far from himself as possible and cranked it up. Said it was too loud if he set it next to him. They had 2 12" monitors (used to be Yamaha at some point, but the duct tape was all that was holding them together) that did nothing but squeal all night. I carry my own small rig so I didn't have to worry about my keys in their monitors, but I heard very little other than drums and guitar all night. Fortunately the clients were happy (and drunk).
David, there is a bass player here in town that boasts about the fact that he drives sound guys crazy because his rig is so powerful that he drowns out most PA's. Sound familiar?
-
Houston and surrounding areas have a lot of talented musicians, but also a lot of truly ignorant musicians as well. I played a gig in Kemah Friday with a band that is pretty much typical for "throwdown" bands. Good drummer, but had a snare that would rip your ears off 50ft away (and he was bragging about it). Guitar player had a Twin Reverb and put the amp as far from himself as possible and cranked it up. Said it was too loud if he set it next to him. They had 2 12" monitors (used to be Yamaha at some point, but the duct tape was all that was holding them together) that did nothing but squeal all night. I carry my own small rig so I didn't have to worry about my keys in their monitors, but I heard very little other than drums and guitar all night. Fortunately the clients were happy (and drunk).
David, there is a bass player here in town that boasts about the fact that he drives sound guys crazy because his rig is so powerful that he drowns out most PA's. Sound familiar?
fortunately I haven't run into that guy! It doesn't take a very big bass rig to get too loud. A 4-10 cab with 500 watts will get too loud for most clubs where I work. That's why they have knobs on them to make them not so loud, if the bassist knows how to use them!
-
Had a gig Saturday, one of my regular bands playing in a Hotel in Galveston, a pre-mardi gras party. Average age at the party was about 50. Small room, maybe 60 in there. Band goes on and the complaints are almost immediate, too loud. I have to address the band, because the majority of the volume is coming off the stage. This band has two members who switch off on bass guitar. I got the one bassist calmed down, nice level, fitting in the mix. then they do the swap, and the other bassist "has to have energy". Hmmm! That energy is just about to get us all kicked out! He was using an 8-10 cab and standing right in front of it. Whew! I wish there was some way to let these type musicians experience what they put me through! And how their failure to listen to me ruins the band's sound.
I call guys like him "gig killers." They're the guys whose self-entitled behavior means the band usually isn't asked back. Playing bars isn't about art, it's about accompanying alcohol sales, and if you're impeding the sale of booze you're working against your own self interest.
-
I call guys like him "gig killers." They're the guys whose self-entitled behavior means the band usually isn't asked back. Playing bars isn't about art, it's about accompanying alcohol sales, and if you're impeding the sale of booze you're working against your own self interest.
Absolutely... I would call him something not as nice, for sure!
-
As stated before... Good Luck...
I have the same problem. I did sound at a gig in a venue that only sits about 250 "usually just acoustic cover bands play there" but this night the band walks in with double stacks. Blows the place out. My mix was all out of wac! People where complaining about how loud it was and I couldn't do nothing about it.... Of cores they say its the sound guys fault.... Guess its just one of those things that's going to happen from time to time.
-
...the other bassist "has to have energy"...
When one musician's ego is bigger than the band itself, there will always be problems. Divas and prima-donnas can be a real downer to an otherwise worthwhile show.
One thing: it's important to know what the venue considers "acceptable" in terms of SPL, etc. and if/how they expect and/or allow you to enforce it.
After getting rest-of-the-band pre-approval, I've pulled the power from instrument amps. That instrument had to go direct the rest of the night...and deal with it. The next time they came through, I had no issues and it was a great show for everyone.
That's one way I "deal" with egos. Some, however, just aren't worth the effort, and I simply pop some 'plugs in and let them have at it... It's a balancing act, and a judgment call that has to be made; but, someone's got to do it.
-
This could well be one of those situations where your association with this band is causing your business more harm than good. I have taken the step to "Blackball" bands from my list of clients due to such behavior.
I usually do this when it becomes apparent that a venue/event owner is about to do the same to me because of the band. So often it all gets blamed on the soundman..............not gonna let that happen.
-
Did a gig at reception hall one day, a hall I had been to many times before, and since.
First show with this particular band. Their sound dude had bailed last minute, and recommended me and my rig to them.
Couple of marshall 4x12 set to stun, Ampeg fridge, and a drum kit that featured a Stoopid Snare......
Bet you can see where this is going.....
The punters were pretty well liquored up before the downbeat, so they were having a good ol time. I had plugs in under my Ultraphones.......
Manager comes over, and says "What the fuck man, I've seen you here before. You've never done a mess this loud". I pulled all the faders down except lead vocal and keys.
He just shook his head, and said "Last time I hire these assholes. See you in 2 weeks with xxxxxxxxx?" Yes, I was back. The assholes wern't. (At least I didn't get blamed for the noise pollution problem...)
-
Good luck. Seriously. Been on both sides of this issue...currently dealing with it from a band member perspective, which is how I'll address it with the rest of my post. In my band the bass player's volume starts out fine, but over the course of the gig he turns up until the bass is all we can hear. The bandleader and I end up asking him to turn down because it's so over-powering. I did chuckle when our leader told him his bass was so loud that his feet were going numb.
The older I get the less patient I am with this crap. The leader should take charge to nip the issue in the bud. A band is a musical ensemble; it's not about any member being on stage to give his/her résumé. It makes the rest of the band look bad and may result in lost gigs. If the offender won't be a team player, I'd say it's time to find a new band member.
-
the bad thing is they are a really good band. The bassist in question gets a wedge with his own mix, and in addition, has inears with another mix. Glad he didn't ask for bass in his wedge. He's done that before. Another thing, with the 8-10 cab, he doesn't need it that loud to hear it. It's a solid wall of sound directly behind him.
That's usually the case... before I starting mostly playing (instead of FOH) I got a call from a local band that were "re-forming" and I had heard of them before. We agreed on a price and I showed up. 30 secs into sound check, I knew it would be one of those nights.
The band (like yours) was musically talented, but had clue about stage levels for club gigs. Lord only know how they got the rep they did if they used to play like that!!
I asked the lead guitar to turn down as he was drowning out the rest of the band.. but he WAS the head honcho, so that went nowhere. Finally, in middle of second set, I went over and (sacrilege) turned DOWN his amp.. he got pissed.. but left it where it was.
His [semi-drunk] GF comes over and starts reaming me out for turning him down. Can't hear him.. I told her to go over to point X.. then he joins in at end of set. I told him, that I had made it clear up front that my job (at FOH) was make them sound as good as I could for the venue.. not simply provide a PA system they could crank and could have picked up at a rental shop. That's not how I work. I told him (and her) that he was drowning out the rest of the band, and that if they expected to sound good the rest of the night and be invited back (my opinion) they needed to listen to what I had to say. I told him that I could make them sound much worse that they already did ::)
They kept the volume levels down and next 2 sets were great. I NEVER got invited back by them... haven't heard much about them since, either. But yeah, as I age, I get less tolerant of the "gods" on stage..
-
That's usually the case... before I starting mostly playing (instead of FOH) I got a call from a local band that were "re-forming" and I had heard of them before. We agreed on a price and I showed up. 30 secs into sound check, I knew it would be one of those nights.
The band (like yours) was musically talented, but had clue about stage levels for club gigs. Lord only know how they got the rep they did if they used to play like that!!
I asked the lead guitar to turn down as he was drowning out the rest of the band.. but he WAS the head honcho, so that went nowhere. Finally, in middle of second set, I went over and (sacrilege) turned DOWN his amp.. he got pissed.. but left it where it was.
His [semi-drunk] GF comes over and starts reaming me out for turning him down. Can't hear him.. I told her to go over to point X.. then he joins in at end of set. I told him, that I had made it clear up front that my job (at FOH) was make them sound as good as I could for the venue.. not simply provide a PA system they could crank and could have picked up at a rental shop. That's not how I work. I told him (and her) that he was drowning out the rest of the band, and that if they expected to sound good the rest of the night and be invited back (my opinion) they needed to listen to what I had to say. I told him that I could make them sound much worse that they already did ::)
They kept the volume levels down and next 2 sets were great. I NEVER got invited back by them... haven't heard much about them since, either. But yeah, as I age, I get less tolerant of the "gods" on stage..
The bassist in question is a really nice guy, and not a primadonna. A couple of years back the band played a place where the kids running the place wanted their buddies there, not this band. Their complaint was "sounded too much like a CD playing". Well, I've worked many years to achieve that sound. But that wasn't the problem, they wanted another band playing there. So this guy got it in his head that his band had to have ENERGY, and that required lots of bass and drums and guitars. So now the vocals were covered up. We played one place during that time that likes it loud, and they complained it was too loud. He never got over that. The energy a band puts out isn't about volume. A band can energize a club without being loud. It's all about the music and the show. They keep the dance floor full. They have no lack of energy.
-
The last band I was with, the bassist used in ears and stood on a buttkicker plate. Worked great, and he hauled around half the gear that your guy does. Nice bass, preamp, iems, an amp and kicker plate.
He stated it was the best bass sound he has ever had, and he is used to some high-end gear...
-
Played for several years with a corporate/wedding band. We used 2 EV 15" 2-ways on sticks, mic'd only vocals and keys. Bass player used a small rig (1 15"), guitar player used a small combo amp, only 2 small monitors, you get the picture. We played in ballrooms, restaurants, private halls, etc, and never had a request to turn down, and ALWAYS had people dancing when it was time to dance. It's not the volume, it's the music and the musicianship.
-
I gave up a while back trying to get the band to turn down. They get pissed off at you and cop an attitude......5 minutes later they turn it back up any way.
Nobody wins.
True enough. This weekend the one bass player in the band was soooo loud. I asked him to turn down a couple times and he did, but he was still too loud.
A lot of the venues the bands I get, have vocals only PA's, SOS kinds of setups, so they are used to feeding the crowd their instruments from the stage. The drummers hit way too hard for the room, so I build the mix around the snare, which is often the loudest instrument. Guitars are too loud, they turn down some, and its still quite loud. I just do what I can. I remember one person standing in front of the bass amp said the bass was too loud. I showed him my iPad, and that the bass channel was right off, then I muted it, no change of course, but he realized it was coming from the stage.
http://youtu.be/OQ-o1svRahU
The next band was a bit better. Still pretty loud, ah what can you do. Some bands are easier to work with than others. Great guys, always a lot of fun. I do my best to keep things under control. I don't want to be the total killjoy, so I let them run a little hotter than I prefer, at least it's a bit quieter than it was when they started. The second band was better, the drummer doesn't hit as hard, and a good time was had by all. Just another day in the trenches.
;)
http://youtu.be/57Wr0bD3VY4
To my credit, the second band told me it was the best the first band had ever sounded, so that's a good compliment to hear! Like I said, it is what it is, if I can bring them down a bit then it's all good. I get a decent mix with no feedback, that works for me!
This could well be one of those situations where your association with this band is causing your business more harm than good. I have taken the step to "Blackball" bands from my list of clients due to such behavior.
I usually do this when it becomes apparent that a venue/event owner is about to do the same to me because of the band. So often it all gets blamed on the soundman..............not gonna let that happen.
I'm fortunate to basically be the "House Sound" at a few venues. They like what I do, I let them know if they feel its too loud, don't even think twice about asking me to turn it down, it's not a problem at all. They know its live music, and it's going to be loud. If a band is out of control, they are familiar enough with what I do to know its them, and not me.
We get the odd ridiculous act. I try to get them to turn down, and I'm not going to build my mix so that it hurts people in the room. Sometimes my 5000W FOH ends up being little more than vocals and a bit of kick, with the rest being stage bleed. Not ideal but again, it is what it is, and we make it through the night. If at the end of the day we weren't really able to work together well, they are simply not asked back.
It doesn't happen very often, thank goodness.
-
Played for several years with a corporate/wedding band. We used 2 EV 15" 2-ways on sticks, mic'd only vocals and keys. Bass player used a small rig (1 15"), guitar player used a small combo amp, only 2 small monitors, you get the picture. We played in ballrooms, restaurants, private halls, etc, and never had a request to turn down, and ALWAYS had people dancing when it was time to dance. It's not the volume, it's the music and the musicianship.
Exactly! The two other bands I work for have no problem filling the dance floor with minimal volume. The band I'm having trouble with wants to move on up to better paying gigs like corporate events, but I know they are not going to be able to cut it in that world unless they get a handle on the volume. They used to start all their gigs with "Separate Ways" and the leader had the drummer hammer the toms on that song. I hated it because that was their loudest song, and you never want to start a gig with your loudest song. If there's going to be a complaint about volume, you don't want to start the night that way. I have to turn the tom mikes off when they play that song or it pegs all my meters. Insane.
-
I get bands coming into my little place. Before they start, I give them the facts of life
- the room is small, hard walls and lots of windows. The room gets loud fast.
- I let them know that we like to have some conversation at the bar without shouting. That sets the a tangible level that most can understand.
- I also let them know I'm here for them to sound as good as they can - as I say, not get in the way of the music, just make it louder.
- I point out that amps placed a certain way creates problems, and these alternatives help.
- I will tell them up front that I will work with them to get them balanced. My version is to tell them I balance to the softest acoustic instrument on the stage - mostly the drum kit.
- I tell the drummer that HE is controlling the overall loudness of the band, and reiterate the room is small and hard, and oh by the way, can you use your lighter sticks? and watch the rim shots? (as we all know, those hard cracks can increase the perceived loudness)
Mostly, the bands respond well to my proactive "I'm here to help you" schpiel... If no action is needed by me, then between sets, I'll give them my report - and to ask them to watch the volume creep, and start a bit lower on the next set.
Yeah, I get the deaf musicians with the amps pointed at their ankles. Folks that won't listen. If a band insists on not playing as an ensemble, or just blowing the audience out the back door, there's just so much I can do. Management usually does not invite those folks back.
Bottom line, in my little universe, the pre-show layout of expectations in a non-authoritative manner usually carries the day - and their groupies will tell them they sounded good, and they could actually hear and understand the vocals. Positive reinforcement.
Again, small club with folks whose egos may be a bit inflated, but not out of control. YMMV.
frank