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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Michael Grimaila on December 02, 2013, 10:39:35 PM
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I am considering purchasing the following:
Soundcraft Si Expression 3 - P/N: SI-EXPRESSION-3
Soundcraft Mini Stagebox 32 Optical MADI - P/N: 5033269
Solid State Logic MADI Xtreme 64 - P/N: 726907X1
To do live sound and recording for my band.
Does anyone have experience with this combination?
Any comments, criticisms, and alternatives are appreciated!
Michael
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Any comments, criticisms, and alternatives are appreciated!
Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.
Mac
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Welcome, Michael.
I have not used the Si Expression, but have used a few of the Si Compact models. (They are similar) They are excellent sounding mixers and I love the easy work flow design.
If you wait just a bit, the new Dante expansion cards will be available for the full Si line of mixers, (depending on your location.) Dante is a new format similar to MADI that will carry 64 channels through a network cable to any MAC or PC. The receiving computer only needs to install the proprietary Dante software to decode the incoming signal. Any DAW software can then make use of it for multi-track recording and playback.
The main advantage over MADI is that you won't need to purchase a $1000+ (US) sound card for the computer DAW. Almost every modern computer already has a network port.
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The Expression has only one (1) expansion slot, so you'll need to make up your mind as to which is your higher priority, recording or the stage box. In my world recording is secondary to the job at hand and the stage box, which ADDS 16/32 more channels depending on model, is my priority. The Soundcraft stage boxes ship with the proper card.
The Expression has 16 outputs on the back of the board so in most cases taking a pair of those outputs through a mix or matrix to any inexpensive DAW setup will yield super results. I use Cubase.
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The Expression has only one (1) expansion slot, so you'll need to make up your mind as to which is your higher priority, recording or the stage box. In my world recording is secondary to the job at hand and the stage box, which ADDS 16/32 more channels depending on model, is my priority. The Soundcraft stage boxes ship with the proper card.
The Expression has 16 outputs on the back of the board so in most cases taking a pair of those outputs through a mix or matrix to any inexpensive DAW setup will yield super results. I use Cubase.
He should be able to do both from the Stagebox...
The Mini Stagebox 32 can be fitted with either a single-ended Cat5 MADI card (so only one cable can route to the mixer), or a dual-ended Cat5 MADI card which provides an auxiliary (parallel) output for routing to other gear such as the Solid State Logic MADI Xtreme 64.
But alas, I don't know if the Dante card will function in the Mini Stagebox. Time will tell.
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He should be able to do both from the Stagebox...
The Mini Stagebox 32 can be fitted with either a single-ended Cat5 MADI card (so only one cable can route to the mixer), or a dual-ended Cat5 MADI card which provides an auxiliary (parallel) output for routing to other gear such as the Solid State Logic MADI Xtreme 64.
Doesn't the MADI expansion board on the console side have the same dual port ? In which case it is possible to use one port to connect to the stagebox, the other to the MADI soundcrard.
It seems that:
- stage box 16 is delivered with single MADI
- stage box 32 is delivered with dual MADI
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Probably best to ask Soundcraft about the expansion boards, but I'm under the impression of one card one purpose. Also, any of the stage boxes can be ordered with your choice of board installed.
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They will be able to be ordered with your choice of card - but not yet. Eventually you'll be able to put Dante in the snake.
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They will be able to be ordered with your choice of card - but not yet. Eventually you'll be able to put Dante in the snake.
IMO they should've went all Dante on the board and snake from day 1. Then everyone would have had out of the box d-snake and recording without needing any other components besides a computer with the (included) Dante Virtual Soundcard.
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IMO they should've went all Dante on the board and snake from day 1. Then everyone would have had out of the box d-snake and recording without needing any other components besides a computer with the (included) Dante Virtual Soundcard.
I think it's pretty clear they did this because of Soundcraft's existing investment in MADI for their higher end desks. I agree, though.
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I think it's pretty clear they did this because of Soundcraft's existing investment in MADI for their higher end desks. I agree, though.
That makes sense. It just seems like MADI (and AES50 for that matter) are very limited versus Dante and don't appear to offer many, if any, benefits.
Anyway that's just my observation and opinion which probably isn't worth much. I also like(and probably the manufacturer's don't like) that Dante is universal for the most part across brands and, as a standard, is controlled by a 3rd party.
Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro
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That makes sense. It just seems like MADI (and AES50 for that matter) are very limited versus Dante and don't appear to offer many, if any, benefits.
Anyway that's just my observation and opinion which probably isn't worth much. I also like(and probably the manufacturer's don't like) that Dante is universal for the most part across brands and, as a standard, is controlled by a 3rd party.
I am a big proponent of Dante, but another way of looking at it is that if you are dealing with 1 or 2 stageboxes going to 1 or even 2 consoles only, Dante doesn't offer much over MADI, and it can be more complex to run.
In the circumstances where Dante's flexibility comes into play it (or other systems like Ravenna, or Nexus) seems to be the way to go, but if what you need is point to point high channel count signal transport, MADI is hard to beat.
MADI is an AES standard.
Mac
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I am a big proponent of Dante, but another way of looking at it is that if you are dealing with 1 or 2 stageboxes going to 1 or even 2 consoles only, Dante doesn't offer much over MADI, and it can be more complex to run.
In the circumstances where Dante's flexibility comes into play it (or other systems like Ravenna, or Nexus) seems to be the way to go, but if what you need is point to point high channel count signal transport, MADI is hard to beat.
MADI is an AES standard.
Mac
Thanks for the clarification. Learn something new every day.
Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro
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Thanks for the inputs....
Michael
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I am a big proponent of Dante, but another way of looking at it is that if you are dealing with 1 or 2 stageboxes going to 1 or even 2 consoles only, Dante doesn't offer much over MADI, and it can be more complex to run.
In the circumstances where Dante's flexibility comes into play it (or other systems like Ravenna, or Nexus) seems to be the way to go, but if what you need is point to point high channel count signal transport, MADI is hard to beat.
MADI is an AES standard.
Mac
Good point. One thing I've been wondering... do Dante and MADI differ in their ability to remotely control mic preamp gain and phantom power?
It seems that many of the digital snake options that are bundled with consoles use MADI, and they include control of the stagebox. The Soundcraft Mini Stageboxes, for example. If I was to get a Dante card for the Expression, and then eventually some kind of Dante stagebox, would the console be able to control it? Is that possible with Dante? Does either Dante or MADI support preamp gain/48V control as part of the standard, so you can mix and match consoles and stageboxes, or do you have to use matched equipment from the same manufacturer for that to work?
Forgive my ignorance...
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Dante doesn't have control functions baked in, but doesn't have any problems living on a network with control data. The yamaha CL series is one example of this being done out of the box. If soundcraft offers up a Dante stage box option, I would bet it would have preamp control.
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Those are the type questions Soundcraft should answer in all actuality. My take on the subject is about the same as David's with the exception you should keep in mind that you are extending the channel count and full control of the additional channels will depend on the card and the stage box as a combination. They must work together.
Keep in mind that Soundcraft and Studer stage boxes will work with the SI series of boards, however, it's always best to check with Soundcraft before you spend the money. I'll see if I can get a company rep to chime in here and do some research during the week.
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Those are the type questions Soundcraft should answer in all actuality. My take on the subject is about the same as David's with the exception you should keep in mind that you are extending the channel count and full control of the additional channels will depend on the card and the stage box as a combination. They must work together.
Keep in mind that Soundcraft and Studer stage boxes will work with the SI series of boards, however, it's always best to check with Soundcraft before you spend the money. I'll see if I can get a company rep to chime in here and do some research during the week.
Thanks for the replies! I've been trying to read up on the standards but I haven't really found very much detail about the preamp control aspect of either MADI or Dante. I'm getting the impression that both Dante and MADI standardize the multichannel audio transmission, but that the preamp control is proprietary for each manufacturer, although Dante control can be run on the same cabling with the audio network, and MADI preamps can be controlled by MIDI within the MADI stream, or by other means?
If that's the case, it seems that it would be worth including preamp control in those standards, so it would be possible to connect more varied devices and still have preamp control. That would make it easier to use existing equipment inventory, cross rent, upgrade, etc. All the advantages we typically get from having standards.
Regardless, I likely won't be investing in a digital stagebox any time very soon anyway, unless it's bundled with a console, but it would be great to be able to mix and match stageboxes and consoles eventually.
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I decided to grab the Soundcraft Multi Digital Card. I was having trouble finding one in stock and just noticed that Full Compass just got some in stock as I just ordered one!
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Neither standard includes control data, AFAIK.
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I decided to grab the Soundcraft Multi Digital Card. I was having trouble finding one in stock and just noticed that Full Compass just got some in stock as I just ordered one!
FWIW: I posted a review of the Soundcraft Multi-Digital card on Facebook here:
https://www.facebook.com/SiExpression
I am hopeful that Soundcraft will release a Dante version of Mini-Stagebox soon... If they do, I will likely purchase this!
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Neither standard includes control data, AFAIK.
Samuel- the control question is interesting.
Our current standpoint is really quite simple... Audinate are networking specialists. We have strengths in delivering highly synchronous uncompressed media over existing IP networks, and concentrate our research in refining inventing and incorporating developments in this specific field.
Audinate do not sell any end-user audio hardware. We are not an audio equipment manufacturer per-se.
Far from suggesting that control is "not our gig" we very much see that the most compelling reason to use network technology is to be able to combine control and media transport (and in our opinion all other traffic) into one network.
We have a business because we are good at our niche
Our customers have businesses because they are good at what they do, and have recognised the value in 'buying in' a specialist technology (which is somewhat a departure from what made them great in the first place)
Our customers are the experts at control- we aren't!
We do however participate in this organisation- which is very interesting, and would seem to be answering this question head-on:
http://www.oca-alliance.com/
This is a case of the right folks having the right forum for discussion.
I hope that this helps
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Those are the type questions Soundcraft should answer in all actuality. My take on the subject is about the same as David's with the exception you should keep in mind that you are extending the channel count and full control of the additional channels will depend on the card and the stage box as a combination. They must work together.
Keep in mind that Soundcraft and Studer stage boxes will work with the SI series of boards, however, it's always best to check with Soundcraft before you spend the money. I'll see if I can get a company rep to chime in here and do some research during the week.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't channel count on the Expression 66 regardless? And the stagebox simply increases the available number of inputs?
The Soundcraft stagebox appears to function the same way the Allen & Heath GLD stage boxes do, or the Roland REAC digital snakes. The key difference of course being that the Soundcraft has a LOT more local I/O than the GLD or Roland M-300/380/400/480 boards, and has a high enough channel count to actually use all of its inputs, whereas Roland, Midas and other brands can have more inputs than channels.
I would have jumped on the Si Expression if there was an affordable way to do FOH, monitors and recording, but there really isn't. Just adding one more option card slot would have sold me. DBX's personal monitor system is actually pretty cool, it's more flexible than Aviom, and really easy to setup on a Soundcraft board. Having two option slots you could have a blu link card and a MADI card and have a digital snake, multi-track recording, and personal mixing available to you. Lots of people don't need any of that, but I do, and the X32 is the only console that delivers all 3 of those at a price that my church can afford (well, I guess the StudioLive does too).
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Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't channel count on the Expression 66 regardless? And the stagebox simply increases the available number of inputs?
The Soundcraft stagebox appears to function the same way the Allen & Heath GLD stage boxes do, or the Roland REAC digital snakes. The key difference of course being that the Soundcraft has a LOT more local I/O than the GLD or Roland M-300/380/400/480 boards, and has a high enough channel count to actually use all of its inputs, whereas Roland, Midas and other brands can have more inputs than channels.
I would have jumped on the Si Expression if there was an affordable way to do FOH, monitors and recording, but there really isn't. Just adding one more option card slot would have sold me. DBX's personal monitor system is actually pretty cool, it's more flexible than Aviom, and really easy to setup on a Soundcraft board. Having two option slots you could have a blu link card and a MADI card and have a digital snake, multi-track recording, and personal mixing available to you. Lots of people don't need any of that, but I do, and the X32 is the only console that delivers all 3 of those at a price that my church can afford (well, I guess the StudioLive does too).
I'm hoping someone will release a Dante connected personal mixer system. You'd probably have to set them up with a computer program or iPad app but I think that would be much more flexible than any of the other options. Maybe just a box with a small LCD, a knob, a few buttons, a Dante port, and a headphone output that can be controlled with a tablet/smartphone app; though something similar to an Aviom PM would probably be better.
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I'm hoping someone will release a Dante connected personal mixer system. You'd probably have to set them up with a computer program or iPad app but I think that would be much more flexible than any of the other options. Maybe just a box with a small LCD, a knob, a few buttons, a Dante port, and a headphone output that can be controlled with a tablet/smartphone app; though something similar to an Aviom PM would probably be better.
The Allen & Heath ME system supports Dante. Just need to get a Dante card for the ME-U.
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The Allen & Heath ME system supports Dante. Just need to get a Dante card for the ME-U.
That's pretty neat but I was thinking of having Dante to each PM so that there doesn't need to be some intermediate box in-between; that way you don't need separate "networks" for PMs and normal Dante audio. You could have a large switch in the closet feeding your "audio" network(though I guess if it was setup right a separate audio network isn't necessary) with everything plugged into it(I.E.: Digital snake box(es), mixer, amps, digital wireless mic receivers, recording computer(s), PMs, etc...).
Edit: But then again that would imply *gasp* some cross brand compatibility of digital components... ::)
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Aviom has a Dante to A-net box announced. The ME-U has other purposes, though, such that for a big A&H personal monitor setup you would want one anyway. 1 - It has PoE. 2 - It has a variety of input cards, so it's possible to connect it to just about anything. 3 - Running on modified A-net means you can use aviom boxes on the same network, which are widely available for rent.
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Samuel- the control question is interesting.
True dat!
Most popular audio protocols have the capability to carry additional overhead information for control. Unfortunately, the control protocols are typically proprietary to the manfacturer. In my case, I wish Soundcraft would develop a Dante version of their Mini-Stagebox 32. This would enable me to use the stage box with my Si Expression 3 by using a switch to capture the audio on a PC.
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If you haven't made these purchases yet, may I suggest an upgrade to the Performer console, with two card slots. Use one card slot for the Ethernet MADI (to connect to the stage rack) and a second card for either the DANTE card when it appears or get the MADI Optical card. then spring for the new and pretty cool RME USB MADIface interface. 64 channels of MADI via USB, any recording software you happen to record on will work. and you can play back those multi tracks and run a virtual sound check with a few patching changes.
that's how I hooked up my rig and it works great...so far. I've little or no experience with Dante.
Also, Soundcraft has a firewire card which can work as well, without the need for an additional interface. I'm not sure what the tracking limitations are with the firewire card. the firewire card also has an additional 8 ADAT I/O.
happy recording.
I am considering purchasing the following:
Soundcraft Si Expression 3 - P/N: SI-EXPRESSION-3
Soundcraft Mini Stagebox 32 Optical MADI - P/N: 5033269
Solid State Logic MADI Xtreme 64 - P/N: 726907X1
To do live sound and recording for my band.
Does anyone have experience with this combination?
Any comments, criticisms, and alternatives are appreciated!
Michael
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Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't channel count on the Expression 66 regardless? And the stagebox simply increases the available number of inputs?
The Soundcraft stagebox appears to function the same way the Allen & Heath GLD stage boxes do, or the Roland REAC digital snakes. The key difference of course being that the Soundcraft has a LOT more local I/O than the GLD or Roland M-300/380/400/480 boards, and has a high enough channel count to actually use all of its inputs, whereas Roland, Midas and other brands can have more inputs than channels.
I would have jumped on the Si Expression if there was an affordable way to do FOH, monitors and recording, but there really isn't. Just adding one more option card slot would have sold me. DBX's personal monitor system is actually pretty cool, it's more flexible than Aviom, and really easy to setup on a Soundcraft board. Having two option slots you could have a blu link card and a MADI card and have a digital snake, multi-track recording, and personal mixing available to you. Lots of people don't need any of that, but I do, and the X32 is the only console that delivers all 3 of those at a price that my church can afford (well, I guess the StudioLive does too).
You're correct, inputs would have been the proper terminology. ;)
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Reviving this one...
One of my clients has an Exp. 3 / Compact Stagebox (32X16, Cat5 MADI card) and wants to record on to his Macbook. Is it possible that the aux. Madi port on the SB can be used for this? Is this sort of converter even available? I've found some converters for optical and coax but not Cat5. It looks like we'll most likely end up with a Dante card but I figured it would be wise to search PSW before doing so.
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...upgrade to the Performer console, with two card slots.
one card slot for the Ethernet MADI (to connect to the stage rack)
second card for either the DANTE card when it appears or get the MADI Optical card. then spring for the new and pretty cool RME USB MADIface interface. 64 channels of MADI via USB, any recording software you happen to record on will work. and you can play back those multi tracks and run a virtual sound check with a few patching changes.
that's how I hooked up my rig and it works great...so far. I've little or no experience with Dante.
Also, Soundcraft has a firewire card which can work as well, without the need for an additional interface. I'm not sure what the tracking limitations are with the firewire card. the firewire card also has an additional 8 ADAT I/O.
happy recording.
DANTE is just so much simpler, elegant, direct.
I had the EXP2 out and, while it worked a treat, I'm glad both that it's intuitive AND that I studied my butt off ahead since for the most complicated and important commishioned last piece of the program, i called up the final preset from 6 hours of rehearsals and tweaking and the board completely reset itself (oddly except for PAN settings)... An impromptu 6min full-band audience singalong allowed me to restore a working mix from scratch and the finale went well enough.
The real pain was how I had to record the show for post... not enough outboard splits and convertors to cover the full input list so I xfrmr-split all vocal mics individually, and stemmed a duplicate stereo FOH mix and a duplicate stereo vocals-only mix. Hauled racks of stuff like analog because no FW card available in March (or still... here in dc?). The post production is going fair since I can derive a band-only stereo mix from the 2 stems.
A year now since promise and 6 months of sitting on this otherwise nice little board, waiting for my recording solution.
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John, have you tried dealers for a Dante card.
We have one in our Exp 3, recording into Cubase.
Sweetwater shipped it 6 weeks ago.
You can't use a digital snake at the same time (yet) but console inputs with analog snake works for us.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If you haven't made these purchases yet, may I suggest an upgrade to the Performer console, with two card slots. Use one card slot for the Ethernet MADI (to connect to the stage rack) and a second card for either the DANTE card when it appears or get the MADI Optical card. then spring for the new and pretty cool RME USB MADIface interface. 64 channels of MADI via USB, any recording software you happen to record on will work. and you can play back those multi tracks and run a virtual sound check with a few patching changes.
that's how I hooked up my rig and it works great...so far. I've little or no experience with Dante.
BUMP.. This one's worth bumping.. I've spent the last two days investigating recording high track count church service via MADI with our brand new SI PERFORMER. I saw so many cards but no YouTube video or article gave me any real world hook up instructions. Until I saw your post here, Art. Don't know if you're even reading anymore. But this seems like EXACTLY what I want to do. We already have the 32In Stage Box.. and are running and CAT5 cable from it to our upstairs recording console.. Would that mean it already has the main CAT5 card in SLOT 1 of the 2 available on the SI PERF?
I'm both a pro musician/worship asc director at my large church AND a pro recording/mixing engineer of 30 years... but somehow in all that time I never interfaced with MADI (pun intended.. LOL).. So I'm having to learn about MADI and DANTE™ now.. But it's good to hear that all I need for my computer is the RME Madiface (which I'd read about yesterday) on my computer end of things.. And the Option Card for SI PERF for 'optical MADI'.. Did I understand you correctly? Since neither that optical Card nor the RME Madiface have traditional MADI BNC - am I to assume that both the Soundcraft Optical Option card and the RME Madiface have some cable that runs between them that's the same protocol that accomplishes the 64 channels available to recall? And what kind of cable would that be?
Thanks for any info!!
Grant B.
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BUMP.. This one's worth bumping.. I've spent the last two days investigating recording high track count church service via MADI with our brand new SI PERFORMER. I saw so many cards but no YouTube video or article gave me any real world hook up instructions. Until I saw your post here, Art. Don't know if you're even reading anymore. But this seems like EXACTLY what I want to do. We already have the 32In Stage Box.. and are running and CAT5 cable from it to our upstairs recording console.. Would that mean it already has the main CAT5 card in SLOT 1 of the 2 available on the SI PERF?
I'm both a pro musician/worship asc director at my large church AND a pro recording/mixing engineer of 30 years... but somehow in all that time I never interfaced with MADI (pun intended.. LOL).. So I'm having to learn about MADI and DANTE™ now.. But it's good to hear that all I need for my computer is the RME Madiface (which I'd read about yesterday) on my computer end of things.. And the Option Card for SI PERF for 'optical MADI'.. Did I understand you correctly? Since neither that optical Card nor the RME Madiface have traditional MADI BNC - am I to assume that both the Soundcraft Optical Option card and the RME Madiface have some cable that runs between them that's the same protocol that accomplishes the 64 channels available to recall? And what kind of cable would that be?
Thanks for any info!!
Grant B.
I have the Si Expression 3 and a Mini Stagebox (MSB). Since the Si Expression 3 only has one card slot, the only option for using both the MSB and recording was to purchase the MADI/USB card ($299 USD). In this case, you connect the MADI port to the MSB and the USB port to your PC or MAC DAW. This is much more cost effective and reliable than purchasing a RME interface and having to build a CAT 5 to BNC cable to record. I have recorded 3.5 hour shows on all 32 channels using Reaper. Since you have a Performer, you can purchase another option card to sit next to the dual MADI card that came with your MSB such as a DANTE card (way too much money) or the MADI/USB card.
Michael
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I have the Si Expression 3 and a Mini Stagebox (MSB). Since the Si Expression 3 only has one card slot, the only option for using both the MSB and recording was to purchase the MADI/USB card ($299 USD). In this case, you connect the MADI port to the MSB and the USB port to your PC or MAC DAW. This is much more cost effective and reliable than purchasing a RME interface and having to build a CAT 5 to BNC cable to record. I have recorded 3.5 hour shows on all 32 channels using Reaper. Since you have a Performer, you can purchase another option card to sit next to the dual MADI card that came with your MSB such as a DANTE card (way too much money) or the MADI/USB card.
Michael
Thanks so much for responding, Michael. I do like reaper. So simplistic and straightforward.
But I need a 64 channel solution. My Christmas show I do each year needs 48 channels recorded at the same time. We also use a designate channel system for all the instruments/vocals on stage which goes beyond 32 channels. We don't want to keep rerouting and defeating certain channels to get down to a 32 pipeline. I want to be able to just route all 56 from our stage to the input of the recording computer and then simply input enable any channels 1-56 from the stage box without any repatching on stage (or using some Software tool to defeat channels on the stage box) to get within 1-32.
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Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.
Thanks,
Craig
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Ah.. Will do. I read that to mean only in certain forum sections was real name needed. And nothing in the registration process had a field for first and last name.. On the road today in Tapatalk only.. Can't access profiles.. Will get to it asap. And no problem!
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Since you have a Performer, you can purchase another option card to sit next to the dual MADI card that came with your MSB such as a DANTE card (way too much money) or the MADI/USB card.
When you say "SIT NEXT TO the dual MADI card that came with your MSB" - The SOUNDCRAFT Option cards, from my inspection of my MSB don't get installed in the MSB but in the board itself. All that's in the MSB is one long 14 inch card that is Multimode Fiber. Now maybe we have a larger stage box capable of 64 inputs.. Not sure.. But it's my understanding that we'd hook up 2 optical cables (IN/OUT) from our StageBox to our Performer's MADI CARD -- that I think COMES with the Performer itself. Correct me if I'm wrong..
Then the 'Card 2 port' is on the Performer itself - not on the MSB (or whatever Stage Box we have).. There's where we would install the MADI/USB card or the DANTE card for recording.. right?
Pardon me the 'new to MADI' questions.. But would the MADI USB option card, simply by virtue of it being installed in the Performer - be carrying the 64 channels and spitting them right out the USB jack to your recording computer? If so - why is there a MADI (non BNC) port on the MADI USB Option Card?
Then -- Do I have to make some connection between CARD 1 and CARD 2 installed in the Performer? Or is Card 1 (Optical MADI from StageBox) used for getting the signals from the Stage Box TO the Performer - and then Card 2 (MADI USB or Dante) is already carrying the 64 channels available to my computer for recording?
I also can't help but think the additional AUX port on the main OPTICAL MADI card already in our performer would somehow be carrying the signals and we wouldn't need a 2nd card at all for the Performer.. just somehow connect he AUX OUT optical cable to a computer somehow.. I guess that's where the RME Madiface would come in.. which in more expensive as you said.. I think I'm getting this slowly.. Just answer my main 'hook up questions' above, please, Michael if you get a chance.. Or anyone.. ::). Thanks!
Grant
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The MADI/USB card can be splir 32/32 MADI/USB, or all 64 outputs can be optioned MADI OR USB. The USB port from this combo card will feed your PC or MAC directly. If using a PC then the supplied driver is installed and your DAW uses that driver for recording purposes utilizing the channels selected through the board and routed to the USB port.
In my case I use the card split 32/32, or 32 channels to the stage box, and 32 channels to my DAW which is Cubase V8. Latency is under 6ms with all channels recording and monitoring the mix in stereo.
Being that you own a performer then your fiber optic option card will continue to control the stage box, and the combo USB/MADI card can be utilized in any manner you feel is correct for your purposes.
More detail can be found here;
http://www.soundcraft.com/products/si-option-cards (http://www.soundcraft.com/products/si-option-cards)
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The MADI/USB card can be splir 32/32 MADI/USB, or all 64 outputs can be optioned MADI OR USB. The USB port from this combo card will feed your PC or MAC directly. If using a PC then the supplied driver is installed and your DAW uses that driver for recording purposes utilizing the channels selected through the board and routed to the USB port.
In my case I use the card split 32/32, or 32 channels to the stage box, and 32 channels to my DAW which is Cubase V8. Latency is under 6ms with all channels recording and monitoring the mix in stereo.
Being that you own a performer then your fiber optic option card will continue to control the stage box, and the combo USB/MADI card can be utilized in any manner you feel is correct for your purposes.
More detail can be found here;
http://www.soundcraft.com/products/si-option-cards (http://www.soundcraft.com/products/si-option-cards)
Thanks, Bob!! That clears it up!! I had read that article you posted there and was still unclear. The being able to run the MADI USB card in 'all 64 mode' - wasn't really stated anywhere.. So the MADI Optical Option card already IN my Performer (in AV Booth) will talk to the Stage Box. And then I can buy and put the MADI USB option card in the AV BOOTH Performer which will automatically be seen as an ASIO device by my recording MAC? And can see all 64 channels on the line?
Then our Front of House Performer we'll be getting in a few weeks.. Will talk 'only' to the STAGE BOX through the Stage Box's extra Optical port - right?
Have I understood you correctly? - and thanks in advance!
Grant
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Ooops... Just read the user guide on the USB MADI.. and it says this:
Audio capability across the USB link is 32 channels in and 32 channels out at 48KHz, whilst
the Cat 5 MADI port can be used simultaneously with up to 32 inputs and 32 outputs. More
channels can be transported via MADI at the expense of the USB connection for a maximum
of 64 MADI input/output paths.
---
NOTE: Only a maximum of 32 channels of the USB can be used. Standard configuration
allows for 32x32 channels of USB and 32x32 channels of remote I/O simultaneously
So my need for a 64 channel solution as I mentioned a few posts ago.. precludes my use of the less expensive USB MADI card. I will need the Dante option card and the dante Virtual Sound card on my Mac -or- a 2nd optical MADI card in the Si Perf + an RME Madiface for all 64 into my computer.. Agreed?
-
Decided to go with a Dante option card to get my full 64 stream.
Thanks for all your help, gents!!
Grant
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Hi,
I would like use my iPad with Auria DAW to record from the multi-digital card on my si expression.
Does any know if
A) the card is iOS compatible?
B) what transfer rate the card uses?
Many thanks,
Bob
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Hi,
I would like use my iPad
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Mac
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The expression runs at 24 bit, 48 kHz.
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Thanks Dave, I've just found out that Auria was set for 44.1 so hopefully that explains the pops and errors.