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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: paul bell on January 23, 2014, 08:44:01 PM
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http://midasconsoles.com/Products/M32.html
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u316/pbellsound/MIDAS_New-Product-M32_zps0d5e5cc4.png)
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My earlier prediction that it would be an X32 in Midas drag (very British) was mostly correct if one accepts that this drag was dressed by Miss CL with fashion styling by AVID S3L.
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My earlier prediction that it would be an X32 in Midas drag (very British) was mostly correct if one accepts that this drag was dressed by Miss CL with fashion styling by AVID S3L.
Tim, I think you were dead on.
I'm a little confused about this offering though. If it were an "M48" I think I'd be game but this is just a better built X32 for $5k.
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It appears to be a 40 channel console. What gives with the "32"?
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Tim, I think you were dead on.
I'm a little confused about this offering though. If it were an "M48" I think I'd be game but this is just a better built X32 for $5k.
@ Paul, the X32M32 is 40 inputs. 32 have head amp control, 6 are line in and 2 are dedicated USB playback.
@ Matt, I think the immediate benefit will be a "full speed ahead" integration with the rest of the Midas/KT product lines, and 96k operation "really soon now." It also takes some of the pressure off the value model to be more things than it should be for the price. A dissection of a working M32 would be illustrative...
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It appears to be a 40 channel console. What gives with the "32"?
I guess the fact that it has 32 pres, but is capable of mixing 40 channels.
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ahh.
Is one on display at NAMM?
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That's a lot of desk for under 5K.
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Weird. I'm kind of dumbfounded on this one. If it has better pre-amps, this might be the console to have. I'll be interested if this still has the weird DSP restrictions that the X32 has. I assume this is built on the X32 code base and not the pro series code base. Kind of surprised they just did not release this under the Behringer name to further legitimize the Behringer name.
I own both the X32 and two Pro2's... I don't think this thing replaces either of them. Tell me if I'm wrong, but this is still a 48k desk, right? Are they going to allow you to add more DSP to it to run at 96 or 192k? If not, why all the mention of that? At 48k this thing will still have that X32 "sound". Granted, it does work, but it ain't no pro2.
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With this console using the same pre-amps from the XL4 and Heritages, do you feel that it justifies the ~$2000 premium over the X32?
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With this console using the same pre-amps from the XL4 and Heritages, do you feel that it justifies the ~$2000 premium over the X32?
The fact that they are selling this thing with at re-branded S16 pretty much makes me assume this is actually the same pre-amps that are in the X32, not the pre's that are in the Pro series. They said the same "XL4" thing with the X32... and it is not the same. Its good, but is not the same.
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The fact that they are selling this thing with at re-branded S16 pretty much makes me assume this is actually the same pre-amps that are in the X32, not the pre's that are in the Pro series. They said the same "XL4" thing with the X32... and it is not the same. Its good, but is not the same.
Have you torn them apart to look?
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Have you torn them apart to look?
Nope... but I have ran both consoles into the same PA with the same inputs and used my ears.
It is not the same sound. They can call it whatever they want.
The 48k issue and weird DSP will still be there with this desk. I doubt it really sounds better. I think this is 2k worth of paint. The X32 is a great desk at the price point, not really sure why the felt the need to do this.
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The fact that they are selling this thing with at re-branded S16 pretty much makes me assume this is actually the same pre-amps that are in the X32, not the pre's that are in the Pro series. They said the same "XL4" thing with the X32... and it is not the same. Its good, but is not the same.
How have you done your listening tests of the pre amps?
I presume you must have removed them from the console as that is the only way to get an accurate result so that you are not also hearing the signal as affected by the AD/DA convertors, DSP etc?
There is as much BS out there about pre's as there is about external clocking!
FWIW, all well designed pre's that are run in their linear region will be essentially identical (except for those people who clip the inputs to get "their sound", then, all bets are off. And they should never be allowed behind a console anyway!)
"rant off"
Darren
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With this console using the same pre-amps from the XL4 and Heritages, do you feel that it justifies the ~$2000 premium over the X32?
There is no such thing as an analog console preamp repurposed into a digital console. It is much different getting the fine level control in a digital system rather than an analog gain stage with a knob. There may be parts of the design that are the same, but for those who fixate on the sound of the preamps, they are not and will not be the same.
Since The Music Group has been touting the preamps in the X32 as "Midas designed" I would expect the M32 to be very similar, if not identical.
Mac
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There must be 6 threads on this board about this desk, and every response makes comparison to Behringer. Let's take the "B" word out of the equation for just a minute. First, it appears the board may not be made in China, but if it is I could except that knowing that at least the board is a Midas, not a Behringer design, and utilizes higher grade components all around. I could be wrong, but that's what's being suggested by Midas at this point. That alone will account for an increase in the cost of the board. More importantly though I would like to think that Midas has not copied the X32 and covered it with "2k worth of paint". It just sounds absurd that Midas has abandoned their tradition of high quality and stellar sound and rely on Behringer for THEIR designs. This makes no sense. Midas is a house of quality and I believe they intend to stay a house of quality.
IMO I think what we're seeing is a Midas push into the low cost mixer marketplace. I don't think Midas, or Behringer as it may be, has any intent to misguide the public with an over priced camouflaged X32. IMO, and it is just my opinion, is that Midas has now offered a $5K board with a ton of features, a board that effectively replaces anything from a Venice up to a Pro 1 at a reasonable price. This is a hole in the lineup Midas need to fill, and they've filled it. I see no reason for the buyer to beware-enger.
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I think it makes perfect sense any way you want to spin it...just for the name I'd rather have the badged Midas than behringer, not saying anything bad about the behringer, just saying
There must be 6 threads on this board about this desk, and every response makes comparison to Behringer. Let's take the "B" word out of the equation for just a minute. First, it appears the board may not be made in China, but if it is I could except that knowing that at least the board is a Midas, not a Behringer design, and utilizes higher grade components all around. I could be wrong, but that's what's being suggested by Midas at this point. That alone will account for an increase in the cost of the board. More importantly though I would like to think that Midas has not copied the X32 and covered it with "2k worth of paint". It just sounds absurd that Midas has abandoned their tradition of high quality and stellar sound and rely on Behringer for THEIR designs. This makes no sense. Midas is a house of quality and I believe they intend to stay a house of quality.
IMO I think what we're seeing is a Midas push into the low cost mixer marketplace. I don't think Midas, or Behringer as it may be, has any intent to misguide the public with an over priced camouflaged X32. IMO, and it is just my opinion, is that Midas has now offered a $5K board with a ton of features, a board that effectively replaces anything from a Venice up to a Pro 1 at a reasonable price. This is a hole in the lineup Midas need to fill, and they've filled it. I see no reason for the buyer to beware-enger.
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The fact that they are selling this thing with at re-branded S16 pretty much makes me assume this is actually the same pre-amps that are in the X32, not the pre's that are in the Pro series. They said the same "XL4" thing with the X32... and it is not the same. Its good, but is not the same.
Did they ever actually say that the X32 were the SAME as the other midas pres? I always thought they were very careful to say "Midas designed" preamps.
But I'm definitely a bit confused by this as well. If I want a cheap console, I'll go for the X32, it's a good board, especially for the price. If I want a premium/professional console, I'll look at the pro series. I guess this is meant to be an in-between, but I don't see a point to it other than trying to push a semi-pro console into the pro market by slapping a midas badge on it
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But I'm definitely a bit confused by this as well. If I want a cheap console, I'll go for the X32, it's a good board, especially for the price. If I want a premium/professional console, I'll look at the pro series. I guess this is meant to be an in-between, but I don't see a point to it other than trying to push a semi-pro console into the pro market by slapping a midas badge on it
It's exactly the same in the photographic world. You can buy a perfectly good camera with Panasonic written on it or pay half as much again for essentially the same camera with a Leica logo.
Steve.
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Josh,
You could also look at it like this. At age 62 I've spent over 40 years working in the industry in one form or another and about now I'm winding down. I purchased an Expression, not based on price alone, but because I believe in Soundcraft's quality, because the board has a good feature set, and because it fit my needs. Every year from this point on we'll see prices lowered and more affordable (to the masses) boards will appear offering new choices to us all. I had budgeted 10K for a board and spent $2200. If Midas and A&H recent offerings had been available at the time, those boards would have been at the top of my list. So now the question becomes, what constitutes a pro console? The price, or the quality/name?
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...I don't think Midas, or Behringer as it may be, has any intent to misguide the public with an over priced camouflaged X32. IMO, and it is just my opinion, is that Midas has now offered a $5K board with a ton of features, a board that effectively replaces anything from a Venice up to a Pro 1 at a reasonable price. This is a hole in the lineup Midas need to fill, and they've filled it. I see no reason for the buyer to beware-enger.
I agree with Bob on this. We have been looking into purchasing another X32 as well as the Midas Pro2. If the M32 by Midas is a better board for around $2,000 more than the X32 is I will seriously consider purchasing it instead of another X32. If however that is not the case then I will get another X32 and save the money. Either way, neither of X32 or the M32 will replace the Pro2 that we are going to be getting.
Time will tell what the M32 is or isn't...I am at least going to give it a chance before I decide one way or the other.
One last thing...Bob quit making me agree with you...it is making both of us look bad... ;)
Bill
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How about using the Midas branded "DL16" stagebox with the Behringer X32 @ 48k?
Sounds like the better move. Use your X32 till it dies and then pick up an M32.
oh.. and,
it's not hard to imagine the "M32 Compact, M32 Producer, M32 Rack and M32 Core" then Behringer drops the X32 line.
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How about using the Midas branded "DL16" stagebox with the Behringer X32 @ 48k?
Sounds like the better move. Use your X32 till it dies and then pick up an M32.
oh.. and,
it's not hard to imagine the "M32 Compact, M32 Producer, M32 Rack and M32 Core" then Behringer drops the X32 line.
Bingo we have a winner, I suspect the large x32 console will go leaving the smaller surfaces etc and the M32 will replace the full size x32 probably with some price adjusting in the process.G
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The spectrum analyzer looks nifty. One thing that isn't in X32 v2.
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ahh.
Is one on display at NAMM?
They had 2 on the floor.
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The spectrum analyzer looks nifty. One thing that isn't in X32 v2.
Actually, the spectrum analyzer is on the X32 V2. 8) I just updated one of our X32s to V2.0.1 Beta.
Bill ;)
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Actually, the spectrum analyzer is on the X32 V2. 8) I just updated one of our X32s to V2.0.1 Beta.
Bill ;)
LOL.... I guess I missed that. Any additional features, then? They seem to be implying better pres - but they could easily be the same. Implying better faders, maybe? Surface is a little better spaced out? 96k? Short list....
I
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Actually, the spectrum analyzer is on the X32 V2. 8) I just updated one of our X32s to V2.0.1 Beta.
Bill ;)
I think it is also in the X18 as it has this in the blurb.
"•100-band Real Time Analyzer (RTA) for all channel and bus EQ's"
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Surprised that the UI looks exactly the same on the screens of the M32 and X32. I figured that at least would look a little different.
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Surprised that the UI looks exactly the same on the screens of the M32 and X32. I figured that at least would look a little different.
To quote you from another post: "Same here".... :o
It definitely looks like a x32 in Midas clothing; which isn't to say it won't sell very well.
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It needs more purple
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It needs more purple
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Maybe they're saving that for the Ultra M32 Pro. ;D
Just kidding, this line of gear looks really interesting to me. I can't wait to see what people do with it and what's coming next.
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I expect that in a while there will be enough knowledge to compare the M32 to the X32 on a "capabilities" basis so one could make a proper case for purchase of one over the other ignoring the paint.
They do share some accessories which may be a good business case for some folk. You could use the X32 for the bar bands and local festivals while having a M32 for more upscale bands and corporate work with the ability to use either as a spare and to integrate them for some work.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Any thoughts on the "25 time-aligned and phase-coherent mix buses" listed as a feature on the M32? That was always a point of distinction for the Midas PRO series and discussed as a benefit over other digital consoles.
Is it the same on the X32?
As others have pointed out a lot of the software for the M32 looks the same as the X32 V2.0...
Wal Mann
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96k? Short list....
Not that I can see, it looks like they are trying to sell it as 96k capable, "future 96 kHz operation". So, its a 48k desk. So that kills that one. Explains why the DL250 stageboxes shipped as 48k capable. But... you won't be able to slave this console off of a Pro series desk.
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They're saying five grand. Available April/May.
Looks like I have one sold to some club already.
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This doesn't surprise me at all. It's a behringer x32 dressed up a bit. If you look at the Midas site they're even telling you what behringer (and Turbosound) products it'll control. This way it'll help behringer sell another 20,000 units.
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I suppose one test would be to attach a stage box and see if it drops off line. If not then it's a Midas design. Only time will tell. I see that Soundcraft is now offering a Performer 1, 2, and 3. I don't have buyers remorse, but I certainly wish these options were available when I pulled the Soundcraft trigger 6 months ago.
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Any thoughts on the "25 time-aligned and phase-coherent mix buses" listed as a feature on the M32? That was always a point of distinction for the Midas PRO series and discussed as a benefit over other digital consoles.
Is it the same on the X32?
Yes, no difference there
As others have pointed out a lot of the software for the M32 looks the same as the X32 V2.0...
Again, no difference except for the logo.
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I was told by a Midas staffer on the show floor that the console does not use the same mic pres as the X32. I did notice that the M32 has POP groups like the rest if their line.
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The Midas staff I spoke to were very excited about this console. I think Midas saw (and liked) how popular the Behringer X32 has become and they're hoping to grab the market that needs a higher end console in the 4-5 grand range.
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After some long thought I'm beginning to think the only rational way to look at this would be Ford/Mercury, Chevy/GMC, etc. The question remains, does the quality trickle up, or down.
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After some long thought I'm beginning to think the only rational way to look at this would be Ford/Mercury, Chevy/GMC, etc. The question remains, does the quality trickle up, or down.
I have long argued to not confuse quality with features.
The reality about the underlying technology is that the big dollar technology (convertors and DSP) were developed by other industries for other markets (consumer).
The software looks like it trickled down from Midas to Behringer, while probably a joint effort that benefitted both.
Yes, at the end of the day the guts are mostly indistinguishable, so branding is the name of the game for getting sales from the other areas of the market.
Incremental gains from here are probably hanging higher up the fruit tree.
JR
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Agreed, but I tend tosee anything moving from B to M as a trickle up.
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Agreed, but I tend tosee anything moving from B to M as a trickle up.
The work effort to generate that massive code project was clearly a Behringer program. The expertise that made that work effort merchantable IMO likely flowed down hill from Midas. In large (or not so large) software efforts there are contributions of both grunt work and high level architecture design. The time and effort spent on each does not reflect the relative value of each. A well built house to a lousy plan, is a lousy house.
Of course this is just my opinions from a great distance.
JR
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The price of mediocrity always comes down.
I do not foresee "sound-as-art" focused providers making M32 changes in the near-term. If the M7 never had a 48 channel count available out of the box (which involves a crude 2nd internal power supply and wacky channel number placement), it would have remained the Church/AV console it was designed to be.
There are soundco's out there who I trust and could reasonably put an M32 in my hands, and soundco's who cheap out at every purchase opportunity. A string of "good enough/close enough" purchases and staffing does not a sound company make.
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Now that Midas has tooled the chassis for the M32, perhaps there will be others in the "M" line? Sorta along the lines of the CL desks?
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While I'd never say I was as adept as some (or many) of you here are at deciphering the deep technicals of all this, I do note the following:
"32 award-winning MIDAS microphone preamplifiers"
"25 MIDAS PRO motorised 100 mm faders"
I'm sure these two items (and certainly more) are better than what is used in the Behringer version.
Behringer is a brand that's based on cheaply made products. EG: Why use a twenty dollar motorized fader when a two dollar fader will do? Surely in making this a Midas product, they've gone through it and "upgraded" the components to Midas Grade.
I for one believe this will be a quality console and worth the five grand or so that it's gonna cost.
Having said this, I'll add my disclaimer that we'll see how it is when it's shipping.
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I did notice that the M32 has POP groups like the rest if their line.
That'd be really cool if it did. I don't see them mentioned at all on the website, maybe we'll get a better look after NAMM?
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After some long thought I'm beginning to think the only rational way to look at this would be Ford/Mercury, Chevy/GMC, etc. The question remains, does the quality trickle up, or down.
Midas is now more like Lexus, or Cadillac.
The question is whether they'll be able to go back to being more like Bentley or Rolls-Royce.
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First, it appears the board may not be made in China
All Midas is built in China.
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First, it appears the board may not be made in China
Nope. All Midas manufacturing has been moved to China. The X32 is made in the same room as the Pro series. This console will be no different.
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It's exactly the same in the photographic world. You can buy a perfectly good camera with Panasonic written on it or pay half as much again for essentially the same camera with a Leica logo.
Steve.
It depends upon who you ask. When the Midas people came through our shop with Pro2, they made a point to say that they had to clean up Behringer's work, rework the console, and design a pre. It is a cheaper version of the preamp in the Pro2. It is made side by side. This is a kin to Soundcraft using the same type of GB circuit from cheap console to "high end", they change the quality of components, etc. Behringer/Starin people came through saying that it was a Pro2 in a cheaper form. I got more accurate info from Midas than Behringer.
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LOL.... I guess I missed that. Any additional features, then? They seem to be implying better pres - but they could easily be the same. Implying better faders, maybe? Surface is a little better spaced out? 96k? Short list....
I
The X32 faders are custom made by Behringer. The faders are in banks of eight. The faders in this console are not in the same plastic panels, grouped in eight. If you watch the videos on YouTube, one of the guys from Midas kind of addresses this. His tone and verbiage acknowledges the X32s were sub par.
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Nope. All Midas manufacturing has been moved to China. The X32 is made in the same room as the Pro series. This console will be no different.
Well, I had not considered that ALL Midas was now being manufactured in China, but if I may quote below, you are absolutely correct.
"The former Empire strikes back. A curious tale in the further falling of the British empire...
The first cast member - A British car company, that rose from humble beginnings, and produced vehicles that became sought after, and highly regarded pieces of work, both in England, and internationally.
The second cast member - a sonic mirror to the first - A British audio console manufacturer, whose products similarly rose to become sought after and highly regarded pieces of work, both in their native country, and internationally.
Midas, which also began as an independent company, went on to become part of the Telex Group - a Minnesota based company that began as a hearing-aid manufacturer. In 2006, that parent company was acquired by the Bosch Group, a German Mega-company that added Midas to its "Bosch Communications Systems" business unit, along with Klark Teknik, Electrovoice, Dynacord, and the DDA console brand. In a move somewhat similar to Ford's manipulation of the Jaguar brand, the Midas name was shifted over to a line of less expensive consoles aimed at the club and regional sound market - consoles including the Verona, and the very popular Venice.
Now, in the start of 2010, comes the announcement that the famous, luxury brand of audio consoles known as Midas, has been bought by a company called Behringer. While not actually from India, it now has all of its manufacturing based in 'Behringer City' in Guangdong province, China. It has achieved its success by manufacturing some of the cheapest, and most disposable of 'professional' audio equipment in the history of the industry. This is a company that according to Mackie, the American audio manufacturer, has a ' history of copying products by other manufacturers and selling them as their own.' The company has been sued by not only Mackie, but by Aphex Systems, BBE, DBX, Drawmer, Roland, and Apogee. As with Tata, this too is an economy of scale. The 1.2 million square foot manufacturing plant in China ships more than 2.5 million Behringer products per year, including over 50,000 mixing consoles per month !
Act 3 - Future Tense. - This is a tale without a conclusion - a story that is still unfolding. The legion of automobile enthusiasts who were so disappointed when the noble Jaguar brand was taken over by Ford, are now scratching their heads at the prospect of this new Indian company guiding Jaguar into the future. Likewise, the old-school gear snobs who cling to the sonic purity of their beloved XL200 consoles, and who sniffed at the budget 'Venice' consoles that started to become so common in music clubs around the world, are now likely crying with their heads in their hands at the specter of Uli Behringer at the helm of that company. Time will tell... "
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The X32 faders are custom made by Behringer. The faders are in banks of eight. The faders in this console are not in the same plastic panels, grouped in eight. If you watch the videos on YouTube, one of the guys from Midas kind of addresses this. His tone and verbiage acknowledges the X32s were sub par.
For those of you who own the X32 now... does any of this acutally matter? I have had no issues with my X32 that I really see the benefit of a better fader.
Its just kind of weird. In my eyes Behringer re-built their reputation on this console. After you forgot the name on it, you got through the gig and everything always went well. Just suprises me they are now basically throwing the X32 under the bus in favor of this thing... when in reality I don't think any X32 owners around here feel that this console fixes anything that was wrong with the X32.
If you want to fix the desk for me...
-Make all effects slots equal
-Allow graphs on each out without chewing up effects
-96k
-Expand channels onto mix buses
There are more... but this console really addresses none of them.
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FWIW, I have one venue with a X32 and I know two shops that own it. All are happy, none have had any issues.
I don't see this as "throwing it (the X32) under the bus". I see it as a console that's a step up in quality, some more functions and (of course) price. There will still be a good market for the X32 consoles. The Midas M32i will NOT replace the Behringer X32.
I predict that the M32i will slowly creep up on those lower range Yamaha boards. I can imagine the folks at Yamaha are scrambling to do something. Imagine the small venue owner: "Midas? Digital? 32 channels? Five grand? How fast can I have it delivered?"
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Kyle, the Midas folks at NAMM did say that the M32i would down the line see 96K. I'll assume it would be in a firmware update.
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Act 3 - Future Tense. - This is a tale without a conclusion - a story that is still unfolding. The legion of automobile enthusiasts who were so disappointed when the noble Jaguar brand was taken over by Ford, are now scratching their heads at the prospect of this new Indian company guiding Jaguar into the future. Likewise, the old-school gear snobs who cling to the sonic purity of their beloved XL200 consoles, and who sniffed at the budget 'Venice' consoles that started to become so common in music clubs around the world, are now likely crying with their heads in their hands at the specter of Uli Behringer at the helm of that company. Time will tell... "
Hey Bob!
Except for IIRC, Jag now posts record profits, and still maintains its exclusiveness.
I agree that this should have been a behringer badge, and shored up B's image even more, while Midas should prolly rework/improve the Pro interface.
Business wise, it obviously seems like too good an oppertuniTy for Midas to pass up, rebadge a ready made console, with hopefully better hardware, and everyone now owns a Midas! I think they have done this before with a Dynacord board.
Sidhu
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I predict that the M32i will slowly creep up on those lower range Yamaha boards. I can imagine the folks at Yamaha are scrambling to do something. Imagine the small venue owner: "Midas? Digital? 32 channels? Five grand? How fast can I have it delivered?"
I keep expecting Yamaha to come out with LS-9 and 01v96 replacements, but...... who knows besides Yamaha.
Didn't they pretty much start the whole $10k and under digital mixer market? :o
Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro
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I keep expecting Yamaha to come out with LS-9 and 01v96 replacements, but...... who knows besides Yamaha.
Without saying anything about anything...
Remember that for most manufacturers who's brand is not primarily music (read: most console manufacturers), PL+S Frankfurt is where products get announced these days...
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I give up on the whole discussion. I've never owned a Midas board, worked on many, and even with the merger was able to give Midas boards the benefit of the doubt. However, you read back through this thread and others and it appears, at least IMO, that most people are writing Midas off on this board.
My final points would be that Behringer has not re-invented their reputation as it applies to their entire product line. They have made a successful effort to design and market a series of digital boards which have started to prove Behringer can appeal to and succeed within a more demanding consumer marketplace. Congratulations to them on this point. I wish Uli and his crew well with their endeavors as I now remove Midas from the pedestal I had put them on.
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I only wish that Midas had upped the pre count to 40 or 48 mic pres. Can the M32 mix more than 32 channels if additional stage boxes are added?
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The amount of interest this SKU is generating suggests to me they will sell a few. Time will tell if they dissipate the Midas brand image, but that is the nature of such ownership relationships, and how you extract value from a high(er) brand owned by a lower brand.
JR
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That'd be really cool if it did [have POP groups]. I don't see them mentioned at all on the website, maybe we'll get a better look after NAMM?
Are you sure you're not misinterpreting the MCA functionality built into the i/Android monitoring app?
"M32 CUE includes an assignable MCA (Mix Control Association) feature that makes monitor mixing simple enough to be adjusted during performance."
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"Any thoughts on the "25 time-aligned and phase-coherent mix buses" listed as a feature on the M32? That was always a point of distinction for the Midas PRO series and discussed as a benefit over other digital consoles.
Is it the same on the X32?"
Yes, no difference there
Per -
What evidence do you have that the X-32 has this feature? Phase coherency throughout the routing is a big deal and I have seen no mention of it in any of the literature, and doubt it exist in the X32.
I'll be happy to be wrong here...
-Tim T
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The amount of interest this SKU is generating suggests to me they will sell a few. Time will tell if they dissipate the Midas brand image, but that is the nature of such ownership relationships, and how you extract value from a high(er) brand owned by a lower brand.
JR
Yepper, +1, etc.
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I only wish that Midas had upped the pre count to 40 or 48 mic pres. Can the M32 mix more than 32 channels if additional stage boxes are added?
Midas already makes high-channel count mixers for demanding clients. Why would they poison their own well?
There has been no answer to another post's question about physical i/o assignment in 8 channel blocks with the M32, but I'll guess the answer is "it's the same as the X32" for the time being. So long as you can make that work, you can have multiple Stage boxes connected via ASE50 and change the patching in scene recall, IIRC. I haven't tried it with my X32 though, so can't say if it's seamless or presents other challenges.
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Are you sure you're not misinterpreting the MCA functionality built into the i/Android monitoring app?
"M32 CUE includes an assignable MCA (Mix Control Association) feature that makes monitor mixing simple enough to be adjusted during performance."
I was just commenting on Doug's comment since he said it appears to have POP groups but I haven't seen anything saying that it does.
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Midas already makes high-channel count mixers for demanding clients. Why would they poison their own well?
There has been no answer to another post's question about physical i/o assignment in 8 channel blocks with the M32, but I'll guess the answer is "it's the same as the X32" for the time being. So long as you can make that work, you can have multiple Stage boxes connected via ASE50 and change the patching in scene recall, IIRC. I haven't tried it with my X32 though, so can't say if it's seamless or presents other challenges.
My scene switching is seamless between inputs no problem, one stage AESa other AESb
However my Midas consoles seem to fall apart, my Behringers do not
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There has been no answer to another post's question about physical i/o assignment in 8 channel blocks with the M32, but I'll guess the answer is "it's the same as the X32" for the time being.
Unless of course Behringer built that limitation in to the X32 in order to provide market separation with the M32, which could be freely assignable? - Just a thought.
I don't necessarily think Midas have in any way "lowered themselves" with this product. Their product range is wide and covers a variety of wallet sizes. They've merely stretched their net a little lower down the market to an area they previously weren't appealing to. Ok they may lose a few customers from their smaller Pro consoles to the M32, but thinking the other way round, how many people who are working in the M32 end of the business would consider saving all that extra cash to get a Pro1? Probably very few, so without the M32 in their range Midas would have previously lost that business to other manufacturers.
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Unless of course Behringer built that limitation in to the X32 in order to provide market separation with the M32, which could be freely assignable? - Just a thought.
Behringer representatives have repeatedly stated the limitation is due to hardware architecture, not a design implementation.
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Tim,
Behringer reps seldom reply to any of the threads on this site, so if Behringer states anything I don't read here on this site the chances are that I, and many other people, won't know those facts.
Uli and his crew have their favorite sites, those being the sites most supportive of their products. When the X32 was first released I wrote a very nice email requesting information that was never answered, much like the questions often asked on PSW. Perhaps that's another reason my opinion is jaded. Regardless, I still don't have a dog in this fight other than to say it would be nice if someone from the Music Group were chime in on the Midas products once in a while.
And please note my posts concerning the M32 have been supportive, probably because in my mind the next step for myself and many other people would be to a Performer 1, M32, or similar desk, desks that appear to have the features and quality of a digital desk that was once only available for $10K or more.
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Bob, both sandboxes are big enough for you.
Bennett Prescott's getting Uli Behringer to participate over at soundforums.net was a coup of marketing for both parties. That the reception of SFN users was only moderately hostile to both brand and CEO is probably why Music Group staff participates mostly over there. I can understand that propensity.
My emails to Joe and Jan received responses within a couple of days. I have no idea why your experience was different.
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Guys. It's an iLive. Behringer owns Midas, so I don't think they're putting this out to compete with the X32. To me, it seems pretty obvious that it's an iLive with the Midas name on it.
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Tim,
Behringer reps seldom reply to any of the threads on this site, so if Behringer states anything I don't read here on this site the chances are that I, and many other people, won't know those facts.
Uli and his crew have their favorite sites, those being the sites most supportive of their products. When the X32 was first released I wrote a very nice email requesting information that was never answered, much like the questions often asked on PSW. Perhaps that's another reason my opinion is jaded. Regardless, I still don't have a dog in this fight other than to say it would be nice if someone from the Music Group were chime in on the Midas products once in a while.
And please note my posts concerning the M32 have been supportive, probably because in my mind the next step for myself and many other people would be to a Performer 1, M32, or similar desk, desks that appear to have the features and quality of a digital desk that was once only available for $10K or more.
Uli has been more publicly accessible than other CEOs of his stature I know of. I have seen his posts on several forums, especially during the early part of his charm offensive. I didn't expect it to last since he does have a very demanding full time job.
Be careful what you wish for, his answers are often long winded self promotional press release type quasi ad copy. He appears to have instructed his reps to manage the squeaky wheels on public forums and they have mostly succeeded. I expect to still hear from him but less frequently in the future to promote new things with his personal messaging.
Trying to verbally wrestle with unfriendly local opinion leaders on the sundry fora is a fools errand and poor use of his time, so he generally does not engage. While using his visibility to polish his brand image with expansive answers to simple questions.
JR
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Anybody want to share a bunk at Music Group City? Looks like a really progressive place. I am happy to buy my products from there.
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Anybody want to share a bunk at Music Group City? Looks like a really progressive place. I am happy to buy my products from there.
Glorious worker paradise?
In other news, I just saw that Foxcon is considering a USA facility. Maybe you won't have to immigrate, Jim.
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Tim,
Behringer reps seldom reply to any of the threads on this site, so if Behringer states anything I don't read here on this site the chances are that I, and many other people, won't know those facts.
Funny, there is this guy on soundforums that looks just like you :P
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For those of you who own the X32 now... does any of this acutally matter? I have had no issues with my X32 that I really see the benefit of a better fader. <snip>
No, it doesn't fix any of the issues we "struggle" with. However, I don't think that is important from a marketing point of view. Preamps and faders has been a point of conversation and an issue for the sceptics all the time. Midas is addressing these two items, thus giving the sceptics a good reason for a rethink and a purchase. By hinting to 96 KHz processing and 192 KHz converters, they are also addressing the 48KHz sceptics. The firmware has never really been an issue, consensus is that it is a good mixer from a workflow and options point of view (for the most part), so Midas marketing is happy to be "exactly the same".
Still, if I was getting a second console, or if the present one ends up under a truck or something, I'll definitely have the M32 just for the looks and possibly the preamps, never mind the faders.
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Funny, there is this guy on soundforums that looks just like you :P
did you just call me funny looking?
Yes Per, I do have an account on that forum that is seldom used.
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Guys. It's an iLive. Behringer owns Midas, so I don't think they're putting this out to compete with the X32. To me, it seems pretty obvious that it's an iLive with the Midas name on it.
I disagree, I don't see it as a competitor to the iLive at all. It has less than 1/3rd the channel count, for starters.
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Glorious worker paradise?
In other news, I just saw that Foxcon is considering a USA facility. Maybe you won't have to immigrate, Jim.
Coincidentally the US Foxconn (Hon Hai) facility is related to Apple very publicly announcing they would build some products in the US. While US manufacturing is being helped by relatively low energy costs, the dollar should get stronger with tapering of QE, so building apple stuff in the US may be a political concession to prevent a more forceful response.
Apple has something like $150B of cash. It would be nice to see a better business climate here get them to put more of that to work here. Apple's investment into US manufacturing is << $1B and not putting a dent into $150B.
JR
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It depends upon who you ask. When the Midas people came through our shop with Pro2, they made a point to say that they had to clean up Behringer's work, rework the console, and design a pre. It is a cheaper version of the preamp in the Pro2. It is made side by side. This is a kin to Soundcraft using the same type of GB circuit from cheap console to "high end", they change the quality of components, etc. Behringer/Starin people came through saying that it was a Pro2 in a cheaper form. I got more accurate info from Midas than Behringer.
With Soundcraft, I personally have an EFX12 and Soundcraft claims this board is using the same GB30 pre as the bigger GB series. Let me just say that I have to run the pre's hotter on the EFX than on a GB4 that I run for my church (that I wish they upgraded to digital already...)
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I disagree, I don't see it as a competitor to the iLive at all. It has less than 1/3rd the channel count, for starters.
Agree, I own both Midas and Allen & Heath. The iLive and iLiveT have 64 inputs in a fully load iDr10 or iDr64 + 16 internal EFX returns. If you need you can add a second rack and take it to 128. It also has 32 outputs with GEQs on all of them. In many ways the iLive is much more capable than a Pro2/3.
I would suggest it’s aimed at the GLD in term of performance and price (when you add the remote stage box).
In this market space I suspect the M32 and GLD will be the best on offer.
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...Apple has something like $150B of cash. It would be nice to see a better business climate here get them to put more of that to work here. ...
Most of Apple's cash reserve is outside the USA. The only way it will come home, i.e. the required 'better business climate', either for investment or for stock repurchase (my preference), is if the federal government gives them a tax holiday, otherwise they'll lose tens of billions in taxes. They've been asking for the tax break for years. It has happened in the past.
I don't see it happening in the current congress.
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Most of Apple's cash reserve is outside the USA. The only way it will come home, i.e. the required 'better business climate', either for investment or for stock repurchase (my preference), is if the federal government gives them a tax holiday, otherwise they'll lose tens of billions in taxes. They've been asking for the tax break for years. It has happened in the past.
I don't see it happening in the current congress.
At the risk of locking or getting zapped.... if I were a stockholder I'd be screaming for dividends, stock buy-back, or other use of the capital. I remember when excess retained earnings were taxed at higher rates...
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Most of Apple's cash reserve is outside the USA. The only way it will come home, i.e. the required 'better business climate', either for investment or for stock repurchase (my preference), is if the federal government gives them a tax holiday, otherwise they'll lose tens of billions in taxes. They've been asking for the tax break for years. It has happened in the past.
I don't see it happening in the current congress.
Apple is not the only US company with huge cash holdings outside the country because of US tax policy. Companies have been buying back their own stock (with retained domestic earnings) hand over fist, as an alternative to investing that cash into expanding their own business and creating more jobs. While share repurchase is good for stock prices it is an artificial engineering of the P/E ratio, so longer term it needs to be discounted and too much is suspicious. I believe IBM is falling out of favor because that is precisely how they engineered their PEG for years. At some point you end up swallowing your own tail and poof no more PE growth because you didn't invest in your business.
While I appreciate the market going up (trust me about that), I do not appreciate the widespread fear against business investment in themselves and more hiring. We need to get back on plan and grow jobs the old fashioned way (with top line business growth).
I try not to speculate about what politicians will or will not do (especially here). I was just describing the context of the new US Foxconn factory. There was a mention of tax reform in the speech last night, but I am not holding my breath.
JR
PS: I do own Apple stock and do not approve of $150B dead money. They can't repatriate it to dividend it without incurring US taxes. Not all $150B is offshore and Apple already has activist investors pressuring them to buy back more shares with domestic earnings.
I also understand the reluctance to give a major fraction of that offshore cash to the government just to be able to spend it here. OTOH Apple has played fast and loose with corporate taxes for years. I think they are based in Ireland to avoid almost all corporate taxes. We need a fair but modest corporate tax rate that is not worth the trouble to do so much work to game. Don't get me started on this, just another perverse economic dis-incentive against growth from dubious policy.
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Guys. It's an iLive. Behringer owns Midas, so I don't think they're putting this out to compete with the X32. To me, it seems pretty obvious that it's an iLive with the Midas name on it.
BMW has the M series. Audi was the MTM range. Toyota has the Lexus brand etc.
Behringer now has the M32.
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Could it be that the Pro1 is going to be discontinued within shortly, why I wonder is because they were really pushing a superdeal on that console, the deal ended pretty much the same day that they released the M32. This was in Sweden, and I assume you have had similar deals on the Pro1 bundled with different stageboxes?
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Could it be that the Pro1 is going to be discontinued within shortly, why I wonder is because they were really pushing a superdeal on that console, the deal ended pretty much the same day that they released the M32. This was in Sweden, and I assume you have had similar deals on the Pro1 bundled with different stageboxes?
Please change your name to reflect your Real name per Forum Rules.
The Pro 1 sale was extended in Canada.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Dear All,
I'd like to take this time to help answer some of most frequently asked questions regarding the all-new MIDAS M32 console.
MIDAS PRO Series Preamps and Output Audio
The MIDAS M32 utilizes the award-winning MIDAS PRO microphone preamplifiers- the very same ones found in the industry-standard PRO2/3/6/9 consoles. The output DA and audio section is equally identical to the high-quality PRO Series providing an unprecedented audio quality.
MIDAS PRO Motorized Faders
Every MIDAS M32 comes equipped with MIDAS PRO Series faders, which are rated for 1 Million life cycles – three times more than other leading consoles.
Built for Tomorrow
The M32 is a console built for today and tomorrow. As it currently stands, the supported sample rates of the M32 are 48kHz and 44.1kHz. However, its future-proof capable open-architecture design allows for later 96K implementation.
Because it's 48kHz- you have 96 network-able channels (48 channels per AES50 port), allowing multiple (up to six) DL16 Digital Snakes to be routable across the network.
Since the announcement of the M32 last month, we have been overwhelmed with great questions, and overall user excitement. Among those questions are the differences and similarities between the M32 and the X32. Really, it's the similarities that help these desks compliment each other so well- after all, the X32 was designed in part by MIDAS and has become the world's best-selling digital console selling over 100,000 units.
MIDAS M32 employs:
- Genuine MIDAS PRO preamps
- MIDAS PRO output DA Conversion and audio section
- 1,000,000 life cycle MIDAS PRO Series faders
- Innovative design, in collaboration with Rajesh Kutty, high-profile industrial designer for high-performance cars
- Cutting edge materials such as carbon fiber arm rest and light-weight aluminum reinforced sub-frame
Other features include:
- Ability to network with entire X32 Product Family
- MIDAS PRO Series DL251/DL252 Stage Box support
- POWERPLAY P16 Personal Monitoring Integration
- KLARK TEKNIK DN9650 support (via 48K beta* firmware)
- KLARK TEKNIK DN9620 Extender compatible
- KLARK TEKNIK DN9610 Repeater compatible
Be sure to check out the M32 Web Brochure:
http://www.midasconsoles.com/m32_brochure/FLASH/index.html
The M32 will be on display at the Prolight + Sound trade fair on March 12-15 in Frankfurt, Germany.
Lastly, we anticipate the M32 will start shipping world-wide Q2/Q3.
Thank you all for the great questions and curiosity relating to this historic, new MIDAS console.
Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
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Hello Chase!
Thank you for the information and your participating in this discussion.
Could you list for us exactly what features, components and processes the M32 has above and beyond/better than the X32? We understand that it's based on the X32 but it's better. How? Please directly compare the two.
Personally, I couldn't care if Rajesh Kutty (whoever he is) made it more curvy or sexy or what material the arm rest is made of.
I and several others were told it was to ship end of April. Now it might be as late as Q3 (July)? Please confirm.
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Seems like to me they are saying the Preamps, converters, and faders, are different than the X32, and the same as the Midas Pro 1-3/6/9. Additionally, 96k support is planned. Is that correct?
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Chase, can you comment on the DSP/processing included in the M32? Is it all the same as what's in the X32 or is it upgraded just sharing the same software?
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Mr. McKnight, are you still with us?
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Dear All,
We apologize for the late response but most people are in China celebrating the 25th Anniversary of MUSIC Group. The differences have been pointed out and at this stage we don’t have more information. As more information becomes available, we will be more than happy to share it with the community.
Best,
Chase McKnight
Specialist, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
MIDAS
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I really do like the look of the M32 over the X32. The M32 also has a better frame and faders; however, it is NOT a PRO 1. The M32 may have the PRO series pres, but, it appears that they are the single stage pres—NOT the dual gain stage pres found in the PRO 1. While you can gain split on the M32, it's just like the version 2.0 on the X32 where you can control the gains remotely, but you cannot separate the analog from the converter like you can with the PRO 1.
Now to the clock rates... I am a live sound engineer and I personally think 48 kHz is just fine for live. In fact, in a live environment, I doubt you're really going to notice a difference between 48 kHz and 96 kHz. Heck, even in recording, I think the X32's 48 kHz sounds really good—better than a lot of canned crap I hear out there now.
The M32 would be better for someone who wants a better quality version of the X32 with a rider friendly name, better faders, and additional DSP over the X32; however, it is NOT a replacement for the PRO series. If you can afford the PRO series, get that.
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For those of us unfamiliar, what are these two stage pres? Can you link to Midas info on them? I tried a few similar phrases in google and I didn't find it.
PS - it's the latency and network compatibility with bigger Midas desks that people want 96k for.
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Sure, http://midasconsoles.com/Products/PRO1CC-TP.aspx
Ah, in that regard, I can understand the advantages of 96k. Also, the bigger desks have enough DSP to handle it.
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Sure, http://midasconsoles.com/Products/PRO1CC-TP.aspx
Ah, in that regard, I can understand the advantages of 96k. Also, the bigger desks have enough DSP to handle it.
Seems like you are maybe referring to a digital trim. Digico and etc have trims. Is that what you mean?
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Seems like you are maybe referring to a digital trim. Digico and etc have trims. Is that what you mean?
Yes, the digital trim... but with the PRO series, you can adjust the analog gain without affecting the converter (no digital trim)... or you can mix and match the amount of analog gain with the digital trim. It's basically an effect that you could theoretically duplicate with a tube simulator... but still very cool.
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The Pro series has a preamp gain and a digital trim. How is this different than many other digital consoles.
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The Pro series has a preamp gain and a digital trim. How is this different than many other digital consoles.
Well, you get that classic MIDAS coloration with the dual gain stage. With other digital consoles, the typical preamp gain and digital trims do not separate the A/D converter from the analog gain... to my knowledge, they are tied together. So, in other words, in a typical digital console, you would be clipping the A/D converter (digital trim) instead of soft clipping the analog separately.
Here are the YouTube videos where MIDAS explains them a bit more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv6Bh6no55s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbI3ZIEA1Rs
Now, if this is just marketing, and you can do this with the other digital consoles, then it's no big deal; however, I don't know of a digital console (other than the MIDAS) that allows you to soft clip the pres and not overload the converter.
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Now, if this is just marketing, and you can do this with the other digital consoles, then it's no big deal; however, I don't know of a digital console (other than the MIDAS) that allows you to soft clip the pres and not overload the converter.
I think you'll find that all modern professional digital consoles let you clip the analog section before digital clipping.
Mac
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I think you'll find that all modern professional digital consoles let you clip the analog section before digital clipping.
Mac
I don't know... I've never pushed them hot enough to find out lol. I was just going off of what other engineers were saying about the MIDAS versus others. Perhaps it's just that they are more daring to do it because it's a MIDAS—not because it's the only one that will?
So, it sounds like just clever marketing then. Still... it's pretty good marketing!
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I don't know... I've never pushed them hot enough to find out lol. I was just going off of what other engineers were saying about the MIDAS versus others. Perhaps it's just that they are more daring to do it because it's a MIDAS—not because it's the only one that will?
So, it sounds like just clever marketing then. Still... it's pretty good marketing!
In all the modern analog pre > AD converter packages I'm aware of (disclaimer) the analog circuit clips before the converter runs out of 1's. That doesn't prevent the operator from pushing into digital clip, but that the analog clips first.
YMMV.
And yes, there is much marketing spew going forth and very little in the way of verifiable fact. I have a jaundiced eye for Midas' claims and thus far have seen no reason to modify my opinion of the firm and its operating attitude.
Would we buy Midas consoles? Sure, if our customer base specified them routinely. In the end, all the hardware in an audio system are mere tools with which to make a profit and my personal opinion of a firm is subordinate to the the commercial aspects of managing a regional sound & lighting company.
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Thanks Mac and Tim for your input! Back to the M32, I think the M32 is going to be a solid console. Some people believe that the X32 was a prototype for the M32, only the X32 sold so well that they decided to offer a MIDAS branded upgrade for those who want it—and keep the X32 family for those who want a lot of great features for a decent price... like buying a Ford Mustang GT versus a BMW M3.
I would've still liked to see an M48 instead of the M32—as others have pointed out.
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I would've still liked to see an M48 instead of the M32—as others have pointed out.
Perhaps you will one day.
Steve.
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I would've still liked to see an M48 instead of the M32—as others have pointed out.
I would love to see a M48. It is just what I need at monitors to replace my M7CL-48. This assumes that it is a solid workhorse.
Bill ;)
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I would love to see a M48. It is just what I need at monitors to replace my M7CL-48. This assumes that it is a solid workhorse.
Bill ;)
The M7 i snot the worlds greatest console, but it's a pretty nice little monitor board. I just mixed monitors for a national TV talent show on one. For the big show we use a PM1D, but for the audition shows it's an M7. It's pretty easy to jump around between mixes on.
Mac
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I would've still liked to see an M48 instead of the M32—as others have pointed out.
That upgrade is called the Pro1 and it comes with more features and another 100% price premium.
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The M7 i snot the worlds greatest console, but it's a pretty nice little monitor board. I just mixed monitors for a national TV talent show on one. For the big show we use a PM1D, but for the audition shows it's an M7. It's pretty easy to jump around between mixes on.
Mac
Yeah, I'm not sure why it became fashionable to bash Yamaha. They build solid products that sound very good in competent hands. Perhaps that's the rub, you can't be rube and get superior performance.
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Yeah, I'm not sure why it became fashionable to bash Yamaha...
Tim, I'm not bashing Yamaha. We still have several of their consoles that keep making us money. The M7 is just like all aging boards getting long in the tooth. We still use it all of the time for either house or monitors. ;) Some guys will take them and some won't.
I got a rider the other day that specifies all analog. It's all going to workout as long as Mason Sound still has a couple of boards around for rent.
Bill 8)
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Tim, I'm not bashing Yamaha. We still have several of their consoles that keep making us money. The M7 is just like all aging boards getting long in the tooth. We still use it all of the time for either house or monitors. ;) Some guys will take them and some won't.
I got a rider the other day that specifies all analog. It's all going to workout as long as Mason Sound still has a couple of boards around for rent.
Bill 8)
That doesn't surprise me actually... the last coliseum show I was at used analog. They are workhorses!
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That upgrade is called the Pro1 and it comes with more features and another 100% price premium.
Yeah, I talked about that in earlier messages; however, the PRO series may not be right for everyone. The PRO 1 has a lot of great features, but it doesn't have many faders per layer. An M48 would sit nicely between the X32 and the PRO 1... would be a great fit for a lot of people who don't need the power of the PRO 1.
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Tim, I'm not bashing Yamaha. We still have several of their consoles that keep making us money. The M7 is just like all aging boards getting long in the tooth. We still use it all of the time for either house or monitors. ;) Some guys will take them and some won't.
I got a rider the other day that specifies all analog. It's all going to workout as long as Mason Sound still has a couple of boards around for rent.
Bill 8)
Hi Bill-
I wasn't singling you out, this goes back 20+ years and is based on certain operational preferences not translating from English to Japanese.
While there was a good selection of large-frame analog desks, we've got even more choices since digital became respectable. It's a great time to be in audio. :)
We still have some analog mixer but it's been 4 years since they've gone out. I think we've sold off most of the EFX and dynamics inserts, there might be enough left to cobble together a processing rack.
The M7 is popular at Monitor Beach because it's ubiquitous and can do 12 stereo mixes. Lots of BMEs have files for them. Not often requested at FOH but frequently accepted as substitution. The M7 probably has a commercial life of another 2-4 years - maybe more - depending on ones market.
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The M7 is popular at Monitor Beach because it's ubiquitous and can do 12 stereo mixes.
You may be confusing the M7 with the PM5D?
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You may be confusing the M7 with the PM5D?
I don't think he is.
Mac
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How do you get 12 stereo mixes from an M7?
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How do you get 12 stereo mixes from an M7?
The M7 allows you to route directly from a channel to the matrix. 16 auxes plus 8 matrices equals 12 stereo mixes. You can actually do 13 if you include the stereo bus although I don't know if you can route to matrix prefaced so I might be wrong about that.
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The M7 allows you to route directly from a channel to the matrix. 16 auxes plus 8 matrices equals 12 stereo mixes. You can actually do 13 if you include the stereo bus although I don't know if you can route to matrix prefaced so I might be wrong about that.
Well, there you go, I learnt a new trick! I guess the extra outputs need an 8 out card, is a cue output still possible?
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How do you get 12 stereo mixes from an M7?
16 aux mixes and 8 matrix mixes that are available in sends on faders.
Mac
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Well, there you go, I learnt a new trick! I guess the extra outputs need an 8 out card, is a cue output still possible?
yeah, you'll need some kind of card in one of the slots to get the extra 8 outputs out of the desk. and yes you can still do Cue, but you'll need to route that out of something else as well.
of course, the card slots give you 16 outs so there's plenty of capability there....
the M7 with sends on faders does make a really nice monitor desk. very intuitive and easy to use.
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This all good to know!
I had an M7 for monitors for a national a while back and I thought I had it maxxed out. 10 sends of wedges, 2 stereo ears, fx for ears, and cue out. I squeezed it all in but it's always nice to have something up your sleeve for the unexpected requests.
Darren
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We replaced a venerable analog Soundcraft GB8-40 board with an M32.
There is only one thing we could do on the GB8 that was very convenient that we cannot figure out how to do quickly on the M32:
Each channel strip on the GB8 has a "PFL" button, when pressed the channel audio is the only thing you hear in the headset monitor feed. Note on the GB8, the headset is separate from the stage monitor output (not on Matrix 1).
We use the M32 Monitor output for the main stage monitors off bus 1. How can we get this quick audio preview function in an M32?
Note: we can SEE the VU meter by hitting SEL on any input channel on the board or in the app, but we can't HEAR the selected channel audio alone. Is there a way to use the Solo function for this?
Thanks, Mark Sound @ C3HUU
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We replaced a venerable analog Soundcraft GB8-40 board with an M32.
There is only one thing we could do on the GB8 that was very convenient that we cannot figure out how to do quickly on the M32:
Each channel strip on the GB8 has a "PFL" button, when pressed the channel audio is the only thing you hear in the headset monitor feed. Note on the GB8, the headset is separate from the stage monitor output (not on Matrix 1).
We use the M32 Monitor output for the main stage monitors off bus 1. How can we get this quick audio preview function in an M32?
Note: we can SEE the VU meter by hitting SEL on any input channel on the board or in the app, but we can't HEAR the selected channel audio alone. Is there a way to use the Solo function for this?
Thanks, Mark Sound @ C3HUU
We replaced a venerable analog Soundcraft GB8-40 board with an M32.
There is only one thing we could do on the GB8 that was very convenient that we cannot figure out how to do quickly on the M32:
Each channel strip on the GB8 has a "PFL" button, when pressed the channel audio is the only thing you hear in the headset monitor feed. Note on the GB8, the headset is separate from the stage monitor output (not on Matrix 1).
We use the M32 Monitor output for the main stage monitors off bus 1. How can we get this quick audio preview function in an M32?
Note: we can SEE the VU meter by hitting SEL on any input channel on the board or in the app, but we can't HEAR the selected channel audio alone. Is there a way to use the Solo function for this?
Thanks, Mark Sound @ C3HUU
We replaced a venerable analog Soundcraft GB8-40 board with an M32.
There is only one thing we could do on the GB8 that was very convenient that we cannot figure out how to do quickly on the M32:
Each channel strip on the GB8 has a "PFL" button, when pressed the channel audio is the only thing you hear in the headset monitor feed. Note on the GB8, the headset is separate from the stage monitor output (not on Matrix 1).
We use the M32 Monitor output for the main stage monitors off bus 1. How can we get this quick audio preview function in an M32?
Note: we can SEE the VU meter by hitting SEL on any input channel on the board or in the app, but we can't HEAR the selected channel audio alone. Is there a way to use the Solo function for this?
Thanks, Mark Sound @ C3HUU
Solo button takes care of this.
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We replaced a venerable analog Soundcraft GB8-40 board with an M32.
There is only one thing we could do on the GB8 that was very convenient that we cannot figure out how to do quickly on the M32:
Each channel strip on the GB8 has a "PFL" button, when pressed the channel audio is the only thing you hear in the headset monitor feed. Note on the GB8, the headset is separate from the stage monitor output (not on Matrix 1).
We use the M32 Monitor output for the main stage monitors off bus 1. How can we get this quick audio preview function in an M32?
Note: we can SEE the VU meter by hitting SEL on any input channel on the board or in the app, but we can't HEAR the selected channel audio alone. Is there a way to use the Solo function for this?
Thanks, Mark Sound @ C3HUU
When you say “We use the M32 Monitor output for the main stage monitors off bus 1.” Do you mean that you are using the connectors on the back of the mixer labeled “Monitor/Control room out” that is right next to the lamp socket? If you are that is not the place to feed a stage monitor from. Are you using all of the out 1-16 XLR connectors for something else?
“ How can we get this quick audio preview function in an M32?”
You get it by plugging in headphones into one of the ¼”TRS connectors under the arm rest and hitting “SOLO” on whatever it is you want to preview. There are a lot of options under the “Monitor” Button next to the screen that will change the way the way that soloing something behaves. It is very sophisticated as to the flexibility of operation
There is also a solo clear button “CLR SOLO” that will light when a solo is selected and hitting it will clear all feeds to the solo bus. It is above the L/R fader. This is real handy since you might have something soloed on a lower layer and it is a very quick way to clear anything soloed to the headphones.
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Mark -
Go to the "MONITOR" screen and select the "EXCLUSIVE" option. This will present only the last solo button you push. If you wish to solo more than one channel at a time, select that option (or none...), and clear the previously soloed channels to hear only the last one.
-Tim T
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@Tim Tyler, @Kevin Maxwell, & @Scott Holtzman thank you all! Got it working and reconfiguring stage monitors.
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@Kevin Maxwell Thank you! In our testing we naively connected our stage monitors amp input to the lanbeled "monitor" output.
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That specific output is usually used for recording studio monitors, and not as a headphone solo PFL/AFL system. Easy mistake to make. As you already know there are up to 16 aux sends for in-ear or wedge monitors. Digital makes lots of outputs and a lot of functions available in a compact low cost package. Have fun!
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would this be a good place to chat a bit about compatibility stuff? i do not want to start another m32 thread. i was just curious if anyone has had any compatibility issues with x32s, and with midas or behringer stage boxes. we have a m32 where i work. getting either a m32 or a x32 for monitors and either a midas or behringer 32 channel stage box to go with them.
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There should be no compatibility issues with either console as they use the same firmware and AES50 protocol.
If I were you, only get the Midas stage boxes. That way you have the better preamps for both consoles.
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There should be no compatibility issues with either console as they use the same firmware and AES50 protocol.
If I were you, only get the Midas stage boxes. That way you have the better preamps for both consoles.
i really just want to get the m32 and the midas 32 in stagebox, and some cabling and be done with it, but money is tight, and i might have to go with the cheaper option on either or and upgrade later next year. glad to hear it all communicates good though. thanks for your help!
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would this be a good place to chat a bit about compatibility stuff? i do not want to start another m32 thread. i was just curious if anyone has had any compatibility issues with x32s, and with midas or behringer stage boxes. we have a m32 where i work. getting either a m32 or a x32 for monitors and either a midas or behringer 32 channel stage box to go with them.
There should be no compatibility issues with either console as they use the same firmware and AES50 protocol.
If I were you, only get the Midas stage boxes. That way you have the better preamps for both consoles.
The preamp thing is still mostly smoke and mirrors unless you're in the habit of hitting the input strip red lights but the AD/DA converters are better at any signal level... 8)
That said, the placebo effect is strong - you could have the M32 surface and S16/S32 stage boxes and if nobody saw them, they'd assume it was all Midas. There's not a huge difference between the stage boxes once you remove brand-awareness, and it's even more subtle if you don't hit inputs at 0 DBFS.
If you want the Midas stuff where it presumably counts and don't care about the surface the DL16/DL32 will connect to the X32.
The main primary benefits of the M32 are nicer controls and a greater choice of plug-ins for the virtual rack. The rack is no bigger, though :(
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The preamp thing is still mostly smoke and mirrors unless you're in the habit of hitting the input strip red lights but the AD/DA converters are better at any signal level... 8)
That said, the placebo effect is strong - you could have the M32 surface and S16/S32 stage boxes and if nobody saw them, they'd assume it was all Midas. There's not a huge difference between the stage boxes once you remove brand-awareness, and it's even more subtle if you don't hit inputs at 0 DBFS.
If you want the Midas stuff where it presumably counts and don't care about the surface the DL16/DL32 will connect to the X32.
The main primary benefits of the M32 are nicer controls and a greater choice of plug-ins for the virtual rack. The rack is no bigger, though :(
Pretty sure the plug ins are the same.
What have you seen different?
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Pretty sure the plug ins are the same.
What have you seen different?
I ran my first gig with the M32 last Friday.
I am not sure how to quantify if the preamps are any better. I can tell you the machined chassis and carbon fiber facade, the higher quality encoders and faders. It looks and feels much nicer than the x32.
With the recent price reductions the delta is so small between the x32 and the m32 I don't think I would buy another m32. I also can afford to spend $1000 and get it back over 5 years so you have to judge things from your own criteria.
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Pretty sure the plug ins are the same.
What have you seen different?
That's going on memory from a conversation with another Mixerperson. We just got an M32 and while I set it up in the shop I didn't scroll through all the plug in options... I'll have to put the X32 Rack next to the M32 and see.
I vaguely recall something about a larger virtual device selection in discussion of why one cannot load M32 firmware into an X32...
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That's going on memory from a conversation with another Mixerperson. We just got an M32 and while I set it up in the shop I didn't scroll through all the plug in options... I'll have to put the X32 Rack next to the M32 and see.
I vaguely recall something about a larger virtual device selection in discussion of why one cannot load M32 firmware into an X32...
I thought that might be because of the higher M32 buss speeds...etc.
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I thought that might be because of the higher M32 buss speeds...etc.
... depends on what a buss (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,161806.msg1487848.html#msg1487848) is... :-\
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... depends on what a buss (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,161806.msg1487848.html#msg1487848) is... :-\
Freakin iPhone...
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I've used the DL stage boxes with an X32, and S stage boxes with an M32. I really don't hear a difference in real world use, any issues I have had with either setup had nothing to do with my choice of preamp.
That said, if I only had so much money to go around, I'd put more into the surface than the stage boxes, those faders are the real upgrade IMO.
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is this a good place to discuss odd things that our M32 has done? :) had some weird issues last night. vocals were only showing up in right speaker. could send to sub and front fills fine, but would not go to left side of PA. tried linking and unlinking everything and checking routing and effects and every damn thing we could think of. saved the scene, and copied it and named it something different, and the issue is gone. panning works on everything. hmmmmm. when we first got the console some of the outs did not work until we saved a scene on it and copied it and renamed it and opened it up. odd stuff. console was fully updated first thing when we got it.
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is this a good place to discuss odd things that our M32 has done? :)
Usually it is better to start a new topic rather than try to force an old one in a new direction.
Mac