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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: bruce gering on February 05, 2013, 12:07:12 PM
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Note: This is NOT a "What's the best kick drum mic?" topic.
I need to replace my ancient beat up headphones. I figure ~$125-$150 should be able to net me something decent. The 2 factors I am looking for besides budget are isolation and accurate reproduction, not necessarily in that order. I definitely DO NOT want some hyped-up low end dj-esque cans that tell you nothing.
I am also looking for a decent "budget" pair (~$50) with the same qualities, with isolation a key factor.
What's out there?
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Note: This is NOT a "What's the best kick drum mic?" topic.
I need to replace my ancient beat up headphones. I figure ~$125-$150 should be able to net me something decent. The 2 factors I am looking for besides budget are isolation and accurate reproduction, not necessarily in that order. I definitely DO NOT want some hyped-up low end dj-esque cans that tell you nothing.
I am also looking for a decent "budget" pair (~$50) with the same qualities, with isolation a key factor.
What's out there?
My best bet in sonic quality for the money would be the Sennheiser 280's for just under $100.
As far as "isolation" and "cheap"......pick one.
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Note: This is NOT a "What's the best kick drum mic?" topic.
I need to replace my ancient beat up headphones. I figure ~$125-$150 should be able to net me something decent. The 2 factors I am looking for besides budget are isolation and accurate reproduction, not necessarily in that order. I definitely DO NOT want some hyped-up low end dj-esque cans that tell you nothing.
I am also looking for a decent "budget" pair (~$50) with the same qualities, with isolation a key factor.
What's out there?
For budget ones AKG K44s(around $50-60) sound pretty good and the isolation is decent too; that said I haven't compared them to many others so there may be a better option. The K44s tend to sound best when driven by a headphone amp; my iPad had trouble driving them properly but my Macbook did alright although they were even better with an amp.
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I carry a pair of audio technica ath-m50 to every gig, there might be better options but they sound damn good and they are pretty tough too. I have been VERY happy.
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My best bet in sonic quality for the money would be the Sennheiser 280's for just under $100.
As far as "isolation" and "cheap"......pick one.
+1
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My best bet in sonic quality for the money would be the Sennheiser 280's for just under $100.
As far as "isolation" and "cheap"......pick one.
I agree. I picked up a pair on Amazon for just under $100.00. They offer pretty good isolation.
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I agree. I picked up a pair on Amazon for just under $100.00. They offer pretty good isolation.
This comes up every time the question gets asked.
While I recommend the 280's for sonic pleasure, they can in no way be considered "isolation phones". Any headset will offer some "isolation", but that does not classify them as "isolation" units.
The true isolation sets will give 10+db over regular cans. The Vic Firth models rate at around 25db down from outside sound. The GK Ultraphones (which I use) rate a bit higher at 27-29db below ambient.
Of course, these measurements are frequency dependent. Nothing's going to stop the LF when you're mixing seated just behind a stack of subs.......
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This comes up every time the question gets asked.
While I recommend the 280's for sonic pleasure, they can in no way be considered "isolation phones". Any headset will offer some "isolation", but that does not classify them as "isolation" units.
The true isolation sets will give 10+db over regular cans. The Vic Firth models rate at around 25db down from outside sound. The GK Ultraphones (which I use) rate a bit higher at 27-29db below ambient.
Of course, these measurements are frequency dependent. Nothing's going to stop the LF when you're mixing seated just behind a stack of subs.......
Man, you really like to argue - even with someone who agreed with you! Nobody here called the 280 "isolation phones". I said that they offer "pretty good" isolation. Sennheiser claims "Up to 32 dB of ambient noise attenuation"
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Man, you really like to argue - even with someone who agreed with you! Nobody here called the 280 "isolation phones". I said that they offer "pretty good" isolation. Sennheiser claims "Up to 32 dB of ambient noise attenuation"
Unfortunately, the 32 dB figure is at the frequency MOST attenuated. They hedge their explanation by stating "up to".
I own and use the 280's as well as some real isolation phones. The 280's have little to no attenuation of outside sound compared to real iso-phones.
I'm not arguing with you on this, Chuck. I just want to make it clearly understood in any thread dealing with headphones and isolation that there is a drastic difference between true isolation units and all the rest of the models out there. The difference between real isolation phones and the others really is night and day.
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If you're looking for headphones, you might want to take a look at Dave Rat's work in recent years as he tried to pick out a new pair. There are youtube videos he created, along with quite a bit of writing on the subject. Even he says in his videos that people have questioned his measurement method / technique, but it's interesting to me all the same.
I personally use the Audio Technica ATH-M50 cans for my everyday work, but I also own maybe 6 other pairs of high quality cans from Beyer-Dynamic, AKG, Ultimate-Ears ... and even a pair of the deluxe Bose Noise Canceling phones that my girlfriend gave me for christmas.
Gotta admit, that although I wouldn't use them for professional work, the Bose cans are a pleasure to own and use for casual listening. A few carefully placed pieces of gaff tape took care of the Bose logos and the stupid (on) light... much better now.
Here is the link to Dave's blog with quite a bit of info...
http://www.ratsound.com/cblog/archives/369-The-Mighty-Headphone-Quest-Part-7.html (http://www.ratsound.com/cblog/archives/369-The-Mighty-Headphone-Quest-Part-7.html)
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Here is the link to Dave's blog with quite a bit of info...
http://www.ratsound.com/cblog/archives/369-The-Mighty-Headphone-Quest-Part-7.html (http://www.ratsound.com/cblog/archives/369-The-Mighty-Headphone-Quest-Part-7.html)
Keep in mind that DR's criteria did not include price. He was looking for the best cans for him at any cost. Once you add a $150 cap, the choices get limited in a hurry. My Ultrasone HFI-580 cans are great, but out of the OP's price range (around $200). Standard choices in the OP's price range (besides the ones given already) are Sony 7506 (around $100). The GK Ultraphones that Dick uses have the 7506 drivers mounted in true isolation muffs (around $230).
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Keep in mind that DR's criteria did not include price.
I think the info is still useful and interesting, regardless of where in the price spectrum we individually feel comfortable committing. On a personal note, Ultrasone will be getting my money in the future... I have been using a few different models of their headphones at work for recording and ENG work, and am absolutely LOVING them. The older 650 model has been everything I have ever wanted in a set of cans... literally.
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Bruce,
I was on a similar search a few years ago, and I decided to go with EquationAudio's RP-21 headphones. After some listening tests using my own iPod and familiar songs, tones, and sweeps, I felt they offered a level of accuracy that I wouldn't find in a similar price range. They isolate well enough for line checks and occasional critical listening to dial-in settings.
I got mine for $80 from 8th Street Music. They let me demo them before I bought them…definitely a nice perk to have. I replaced my "venerable" Sony MDR-7506 cans, and whenever I listen to them now, they are very shrill to my ears.
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I have been using the Sennheiser HD-280 pro's for about 9 years and really like them. They are not too pricey and offer a good blend of both isolation and sonic performance. They are not a DJ can and are more aimed at studio monitoring while tracking. That said they have a bass response that is not over emphasized ( almost not enough bass ) but the mid and high end detail is good. they are the best cans in the 100-120 price point I have used anyway.
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I have been using the Sennheiser HD-280 pro's for about 9 years and really like them. They are not too pricey and offer a good blend of both isolation and sonic performance. They are not a DJ can and are more aimed at studio monitoring while tracking. That said they have a bass response that is not over emphasized ( almost not enough bass ) but the mid and high end detail is good. they are the best cans in the 100-120 price point I have used anyway.
Again, I must say that I really like my 280's. Do they offer isolation? No. Here's a clarification:
With non-isolation headphones like the 280's, you have to turn them up 10dB above ambient sound to get to a difference in level sufficient for discernment. My 280's measure out at an average of about 15 dB down from ambient. So if the ambient sound level at the listening position is 95 dB, I'm running the headphones at 95 minus 15 plus 10 or approximately 90 dB. If the ambient SPL is 105, you're listening at around 100dB in the cans
With isolation headphones capable of an honest (averaged) 25 dB attenuation, it figures to 95 minus 25 plus 10 for a listening level of 80 dB with house sound at 95 and at 90 with house at 105.
That 10 dB difference in listening level is significant......even more so over time.
I like my hearing.
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And now for something completely different.
I have a pair of Shure 440 headphones that have been just great. I've abused them for about 2 years now and they still look and work like new. Also, every part is replaceable, so if anything does break you don't have to throw them away.
They sound pretty dang good too. Much better than the 7506's they replaced...
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I love my Sennheiser HD280's! I've been using them for about 6-7 years now. Just bought 2 new pairs for my kids.
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My best bet in sonic quality for the money would be the Sennheiser 280's for just under $100.
As far as "isolation" and "cheap"......pick one.
+1
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As far as "isolation" and "cheap"......pick one.
http://www.amazon.com/Vic-Firth-Stereo-Isolation-Headphones/dp/B0002F519I/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
No direct experience, and a few amazon reviews (a small minority) suggest they break easily. They are 'cheap' isolation cans however.
Other examples:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/753988-REG/CAD_DH100_DH100_Drummer_Isolation_Headphones.html
http://www.amazon.com/Direct-Sound-EX-25-Each/dp/B0010HHEEM
http://www.amazon.com/Direct-Sound-Extreme-Isolation-Headphones/dp/B0002GZLY2
I still agree DR's general observation and would be inclined to get the Ultraphones if I wanted iso cans.
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This comes up every time the question gets asked.
While I recommend the 280's for sonic pleasure, they can in no way be considered "isolation phones". Any headset will offer some "isolation", but that does not classify them as "isolation" units.
The true isolation sets will give 10+db over regular cans. The Vic Firth models rate at around 25db down from outside sound. The GK Ultraphones (which I use) rate a bit higher at 27-29db below ambient.
Of course, these measurements are frequency dependent. Nothing's going to stop the LF when you're mixing seated just behind a stack of subs.......
Dick, I have six HD 280's in my studio and find that the isolation is quite good. They advertise 32db down from outside noise and I believe them. For live mixing, I like the isolation they provide. Not as good as Grado's, but still quite good for the money.
Just my .02.
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Dick, I have six HD 280's in my studio and find that the isolation is quite good. They advertise 32db down from outside noise and I believe them. For live mixing, I like the isolation they provide. Not as good as Grado's, but still quite good for the money.
Just my .02.
Mark....
They'll have 32 dB down at some selected frequencies, but not over the broad spectrum. Numbers get thrown around a good bit, but owning and using both the 280's and Ultraphones I can say without fear of contradiction that the Ultraphones have double the isolation at a minimum, likely more. I can't give numbers, just a direct comparison from use.
The bottom line is that the Ultraphones will give me performance that the better sounding 280's cannot. If you believe the 32 dB spec, then the Ultraphones will give at least 10 dB better isolation at the same frequency. While the 280's will probably work fine in a studio setting, I believe the OP is looking for something with isolation for working in a high SPL environment with a full mix in the cans, not just an individualized recording mix.
I'm working hard here to keep it "apples to apples". Have you ever tried any true isolation phones?
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Note: This is NOT a "What's the best kick drum mic?" topic.
I need to replace my ancient beat up headphones. I figure ~$125-$150 should be able to net me something decent. The 2 factors I am looking for besides budget are isolation and accurate reproduction, not necessarily in that order. I definitely DO NOT want some hyped-up low end dj-esque cans that tell you nothing.
I am also looking for a decent "budget" pair (~$50) with the same qualities, with isolation a key factor.
What's out there?
Go onto Youtube.com and type in Dave RAt HEadphone Test for an interesting hour...
I bought the Shure cans he recommended. Very happy with them.
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Go onto Youtube.com and type in Dave RAt HEadphone Test for an interesting hour...
I bought the Shure cans he recommended. Very happy with them.
Kristian.....
Ever try a set of these?
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Go onto Youtube.com and type in Dave RAt HEadphone Test for an interesting hour...
I bought the Shure cans he recommended. Very happy with them.
I bought the Denons, flat down to 20Hz (if I remember right).
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I also got the Denon AH-D2000 and they are great. Sadly they have been discontinued and seem to be unavailable at any reasonable price. They do have very low distortion bass as DR shows on his oscilloscope, have flat clear mids and highs and are well bulit. I hope they start producing them again. Of the headphones I have seriously used, I would rank the sound quality: Denon AH-D2000 > Sennheiser HD600 (open back not for live sound) > Sennheiser HD25-II > Ultrasone HFI680 > Sennheiser HD280 > Sony 7506. All but the 600s work fine for moderate SPL live mixing. None of those isolate adequately for loud live situations but I have not found anything with better sound quality. I tend to use in-ears (Shure E3C) for loud live sound gigs, but it is always annoying to take them out and put them back in. I have used the Denons in moderate SPL live performances and they work great. I don't like to bring favorite irreplaceable gear to gigs, so I now use them for tracking, checking mixes and pleasure listening in my rehearsal / project studio. The 5000s are also not readily available.
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Very happy with Shure SRH840's. Replaced my aging Sony 7506's with them. Never going back.
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Mark.....
I'm working hard here to keep it "apples to apples". Have you ever tried any true isolation phones?
I've used Vic Firth and Direct Sound extreme isolation phones. Didn't really like the sound compared to my HD280's but they did provide more isolation. Never thought the 280's were the best for isolation, but as a compromise they worked best.
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I've used Vic Firth and Direct Sound extreme isolation phones. Didn't really like the sound compared to my HD280's but they did provide more isolation. Never thought the 280's were the best for isolation, but as a compromise they worked best.
The bottom line for me is isolation. It doesn't matter to me if it's audiophile quality in the cans if I have to run them up to a painful level to get them over the ambient noise level. I can easily learn to compensate for any sonic anomalies of a set of headphones, but I won't be able to distinguish the sonic relationships between the elements of the mix if I've trashed my ears by running great sounding headphones 10 to 15dB hotter than my isolation-phones.
When I'm using them, I'm "in the cans" for the entire time, either live recording, live broadcast or the like. If I'm doing live sound, I'll often put them on for hearing protection if I've had to locate too close to the stacks.
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Very happy with Shure SRH840's. Replaced my aging Sony 7506's with them. Never going back.
I also replaced my 7506's with the Shure 840's, though I'm not throwing my 7506's away. If you have ones with worn-out ear cushions, go ahead and spend the $20 to replace the cushions. Bad cushions will significantly affect the bass response.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the new Heil cans. Void has a set and apparently is really enjoying them.
http://www.heilsound.com/pro/microphone-accessories/pro-set-3
(http://www.heilsound.com/pro/images/products/ps3/i/ps3.jpg)
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Kristian.....
Ever try a set of these?
Should I feel insulted or flattered? :)
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Should I feel insulted or flattered? :)
Depends
If you can only afford two movers as spots on a show, are they pointed at foh instead of the stage?
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Depends
If you can only afford two movers as spots on a show, are they pointed at foh instead of the stage?
Trick question!
Everyone knows they should be pointed at the monitor guy!
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the new Heil cans. Void has a set and apparently is really enjoying them.
http://www.heilsound.com/pro/microphone-accessories/pro-set-3
(http://www.heilsound.com/pro/images/products/ps3/i/ps3.jpg)
I have pair and while I like the sound, I don't like the cords. They come with 3 sets ( if I remember right ) but none seemed to drape right.
My go to cans are the HD280s.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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I also replaced my 7506's with the Shure 840's, though I'm not throwing my 7506's away. If you have ones with worn-out ear cushions, go ahead and spend the $20 to replace the cushions. Bad cushions will significantly affect the bass response.
Not to mention that you'll end up with black flaky crap all over your head and shirt. Sony really needs a better formulation for the ear pads, they are junk and deteriorate rather quickly. I have about 6 pairs and it gets expensive to replace them every other year. I went with some aftermarket velour pads last year (Pearlstone http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/645787-REG/Pearstone_9081860_Deluxe_Earpads_Pair.html), we'll see how they hold up.
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+1 Ultrasone & Denon
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You need pretty small ears for the Ultrasone HFI680s to fit and sound as designed, and provide some isolation. I gave mine to my daughter to use for tracking, her ears are smaller than mine.
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Not to mention that you'll end up with black flaky crap all over your head and shirt. Sony really needs a better formulation for the ear pads, they are junk and deteriorate rather quickly. I have about 6 pairs and it gets expensive to replace them every other year. I went with some aftermarket velour pads last year (Pearlstone http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/645787-REG/Pearstone_9081860_Deluxe_Earpads_Pair.html), we'll see how they hold up.
It will be interesting to see how those hold up. I have the Beyer replacement pads on my 7506 and they are so much nicer than the stock ones for all the reasons noted.
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Not to mention that you'll end up with black flaky crap all over your head and shirt. Sony really needs a better formulation for the ear pads, they are junk and deteriorate rather quickly. I have about 6 pairs and it gets expensive to replace them every other year. I went with some aftermarket velour pads last year (Pearlstone http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/645787-REG/Pearstone_9081860_Deluxe_Earpads_Pair.html), we'll see how they hold up.
It's wasn't just Sony... My old two pairs of Audio Technica ATH-M40fs cans both crapped the bed in similar fashion. Sticky clingy black fragments everywhere just like Sony... Disappointing.
The up side is that they seem to have it sorted out with the newer M50's which have much thicker leather type material on the pads. I've had mine since they came out and they've held up really well.
Cleaning out a storage closet the other day, I found a pair of 7506 replacement pads (NOS) in the original box. Excited, since we have a pair that need them, I pulled them out of the box only to find them in bits. Deteriorated and went to pieces, in the original package...never been touched... DOH!!
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Note: This is NOT a "What's the best kick drum mic?" topic.
I need to replace my ancient beat up headphones. I figure ~$125-$150 should be able to net me something decent. The 2 factors I am looking for besides budget are isolation and accurate reproduction, not necessarily in that order. I definitely DO NOT want some hyped-up low end dj-esque cans that tell you nothing.
I am also looking for a decent "budget" pair (~$50) with the same qualities, with isolation a key factor.
What's out there?
I find that my HD280 Sennheisers offer adequate isolation and acceptable audio quality.
For a budget $50-ish set of 'phones, I'd go with whatever model Audio-Technica ATH model falls into that category.
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I also replaced my 7506's with the Shure 840's, though I'm not throwing my 7506's away. If you have ones with worn-out ear cushions, go ahead and spend the $20 to replace the cushions. Bad cushions will significantly affect the bass response.
Thanks for the tip. My pads are worn out.
I'm not throwing them away, just moving them to 2nd chair.
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BTW, if you lose or break the 1/4" adapter from your Sony headphones, buy the Shure replacement. Fits perfectly, is probably more durable, and is definitely cheaper.
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BTW, if you lose or break the 1/4" adapter from your Sony headphones, buy the Shure replacement. Fits perfectly, is probably more durable, and is definitely cheaper.
Many thanks Scott, I just added a few to my wish list. The Sony ones do break, or mysteriously disappear... Kind of like socks.
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BTW, if you lose or break the 1/4" adapter from your Sony headphones, buy the Shure replacement. Fits perfectly, is probably more durable, and is definitely cheaper.
Besides the one on the cable, I keep a spare adapter in the bottom of each headphone pouch. More than once, I've been happy to have that!
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Some of you recommended the HD280's. They aren't the greatest sounding cans. The lows are faint, the mids are ok, and the highs are meh. There is no sound stage to speak of. Sound reproduction wise they aren't very good. They are also very uncomfortable after long use.
The good is that their isolation is in fact very good, but that's also because the headband is tight and squeezes the crap out of your head therefore making it uncomfortable.
ATH-M50's would be a better choice if you can find them for a good price. The bass on them seems a little muffled and boomy but it's definitely a nicer sound than the 280's.
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is tight and squeezes the crap out of your head therefore making it uncomfortable.
What size hat do you wear?
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For cheap cheap we have several pairs of ath m30s. To me they sounded better than everything else the store had at the time up to the $100 level where the sennies took over. I use to use the hd280s. I now own some denons however, they were very pricy. I think the hd280s are in the sweet spot for me cheap enough but sound good enough.
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I use the Direct Sound EX29 Extreme Isolation Headphones, solely for the isolation.
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, it seems nothing blocks low frequencies enough.
My question is "What is "accurate enough?"...
I've been toying with the idea of ear-canal plugs with isolation cans over.
Ear canal plugs - http://www.plugup.com/the_S_plug_earcanal_stereo_earbuds_p/s%2022-3.5-4.5.htm
Cans (for me) are terribly hot and uncomfortable - I can't wait to get them off either mixing, or shooting. (wah! :'()
The plugs are comfortable, and I'd still have decent protection even if I dump the cans.
Thoughts? Since I already have a pair for riding, I guess I should just try them out...